Herbie - 2015-07-20 1:06 PM Welllll....through the years I have fed probiotics and prebiotics and never saw a huge difference.  The prebiotics seemed to make my horses gassy.  The probiotics didn't make much difference at all.  I think that if we can eliminate the inflammation in the hind gut and maintain a healthy PH that we don't have the need for either and our horses are better for it.  I think we, as humans, and these horses being like our children, sometimes have a tendency to over-do it with trying to do the best we can for them and that in turn we often end up being counter productive through over feeding, over supplementing, and over medicating....this includes pro and prebiotics IMO. 

 

Herbie - 2015-07-20 3:46 PM

I am certainly no expert either, TurnLane, but in trying to find something to help my horse with his respiratory conditions, I began giving him french's mustard, and through that I did notice a very slight improvement in him after MONTHS and thousands of dollars spent on vets and drugs and supplements, etc.  I googled to find out what was in the French's and found turmeric, vinegar and water to be the only ingredients, so I then googled turmeric (curcurmin) and was blown away at all of the things I found in how it benefits people who consume it....things from treating IBS, to cancer, to arthritis, pain management, allergies, COPD, etc.....and not only is it just articles, but studies that document the progress of people taking curcurmin supplements.  In talking to one of my good friends about this, she said her mother and aunt take it for their RLS and they cured a very allergic/itchy dog with dermatitis in feeding it to the dog as well. 

I continued my google search but specified for horses and ran across the Cur-Ost company (www.nouvelleresearch.com) and began consulting with Dr. Schell on the issues with my horse, speaking primarily on the respiratory issues.  After about  weeks of him consulting with me (aka, me driving him crazy, i'm sure), I finally ordered the product.  Through the use of this product, I know that I know longer have a hind gut issue.  Even before this horse got sick, he has always been very irritable and very touchy where a back cinch would go.  He's always been very flinchy even when you brush him.  I've been through countless rounds of omeprazole, ranitidine, etc and while he would improve a little, these symptoms would never go away.  The change in this horse's attitude and overall well being is truly remarkable.  He has always been a little on the hateful side, didn't want you messing with him, brushing him, nothing.  He would get mad if you just sat on him in 1 place too long.  He was just a jerk, which I alway assumed was his personality, but it wasn't.  He's so different now having been on these products and changed my program as Dr. Schell instructed me to.  It's the single most dramatic change i've ever seen in a horse, and while the respiratory improvement and repair is impressive, the most impressive part of this process for me is the change in my horse physically and mentally. 

My mom has been so blown away by it that she has also ordered the same product for her.  In a week, she has much less pain in her hands, her stomach problems have drastically improved, and she's been out riding every day with me instead of sleeping in her room.  Inflammation in the stomach and intestine can be linked to so many different ailments and diseases and can be the cause of systemic inflammation resulting in joint pain, allergies and asthma, IBS, and even cancer.  Heck, I even started taking a spoonful 2 spoonfuls of french's mustard myself, and i've yet to finish my first box of allergy medicine this year....and I typically can't go a day without it.  I'm next on the list to get myself some Cur-Ost, but as usual.....my horse's are higher on the priority list than me.  LOL

lonely va barrelxr - 2015-07-20 1:28 PM





I like the way you think . .  

Herbie - 2015-07-20 9:24 AM  https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/393-probiotics-are-they-necessary

dsl - 2015-07-22 10:17 PM Great info. I have a horse very similar in personality to what you where describing. Have also tried several ulcer treatments. Which formula of the Cur-Ost worked for your horse?

Herbie - 2015-07-23 8:40 AM


I was treating a severe respiratory condition when I started this program, so ulcers weren't even on the forefront of what I was concerned about at the time, the healing of the GI system and the overall change in my horse physically and mentally was an added bonus.  I would say if ulcers are the only think you're concerned with, the Total Support or the Stomach formula would be the way to gom probably the Total Support.  I'm still feeding the Immune & Repair, the Total Support, and the Adapt & Calm all three right now.  I've been told I could back off of the Immune & Repair but with as hot and dry as it is right now, i'm going to continue feeding it through the summer just to keep building up his immune system.   

I also changed my horses to whole oats once daily and alfalfa hay mixed with a little grass hay.  The artificial vit/min packs and the molasses are believed to be contributors to the inflammation in the GI system. 
 

GLP - 2015-07-23 9:23 AM I must admit that it makes me nervous to adjust my feed to just oats, alfalfa and a little grass hay and limited turn out on grass. My horses are pretty much on dry lot right now until we can do some brush control. I am going to have my grass hay tested since the store I get it from only uses 1 source. The alfalfa hay we get here in South Texas is always really stemmy, so I am looking into going with the Omni cubes, but the nearest place to get them is 2 hours away. However, what I have been doing has not worked on 2 of my horses, so a change is needed. I am also having trouble letting go of my need to use a vitamin/mineral supplement, lol. But again, I am going to try Dr. Schell's advice as closely as possible. If anyone else tries this would you please keep us updated? I plan to update - to me this is very important stuff.

GLP - 2015-07-23 7:23 AM

I must admit that it makes me nervous to adjust my feed to just oats, alfalfa and a little grass hay and limited turn out on grass. My horses are pretty much on dry lot right now until we can do some brush control. I am going to have my grass hay tested since the store I get it from only uses 1 source. The alfalfa hay we get here in South Texas is always really stemmy, so I am looking into going with the Omni cubes, but the nearest place to get them is 2 hours away. However, what I have been doing has not worked on 2 of my horses, so a change is needed. I am also having trouble letting go of my need to use a vitamin/mineral supplement, lol. But again, I am going to try Dr. Schell's advice as closely as possible. If anyone else tries this would you please keep us updated? I plan to update - to me this is very important stuff.

Serenity06 - 2015-07-24 10:09 AM Where can I find info on Omni Cubes? I googled it but that wasn't useful....

kmcsunshine - 2015-07-25 8:02 AM

I disagree with much in this and have debated on posting for days.  My personal experience is that pre and pro biotics can literally be a life saver.  My graduate equine nutrition class taught me that oats were not one of the worst feeds out there in regard to biological value.  For those who say it is more "natural," grass was natural.  Until man came along and harvested oats to feed, horses did not eat them.  I know people who fed sorghum and corn instead of oats to horses because that is what they grew on the farm.  Those horses did fine because they had a foraged based feed situation.  I feed a lot of wheat hay and they get some wheat with their forage...it is not the make or break portion of the diet.  Horses live longer now and nutrition research pioneered by Dr. Potter whom I studied under has taught us how to better feed them for long lives and better performance.  All horses are individuals.  I am feeding everything from no grain to Renew Gold to Equine senior.  Some horses are nervous and ulcer prone despite a proper diet, but the symptoms can be mitigated with proper handling.  Last year at a 4 day barrel race our ulcer horse stressed so badly I almost left him at the vet for fluids on the way home.  We just returned from an intensive 4 day clinic and he came through it great.  He got probiotics  in the form of Equipride with his Renew Gold which was fed 4 times a day.  He got electrolytes and a hauling buddy.  I also took wheat hay and alfalfa so he could choose which ever one he wanted at the time.  There is NO one size fits all in horses and one can find research to support almost any preconceived notion.  I will continue to trust my eye, personal experience and common sense. 

I also picked up a very thin horse to bring home at the same time.  He was not making apples.  One feeding of Equine Senior and Equipride and we had apples.  He has already gained weight. 

winwillows - 2015-07-24 5:04 PM Interesting article. This pretty much follows my thinking concerning probiotics. The best way to have a proper population of beneficial bacteria in the hind guy is not to add more, but rather to quit killing what is naturally occurring. one way that this is done is by controlling disruptions to the natural digestive process by limiting grain based concentrates to the amount that can be digested higher in the system, and limiting any added concentrates to less than two pounds per feeding.

FLITASTIC - 2015-07-25 11:21 AM I took an equine nutrition class to, and have chosen to believe Dr. Schell who is a vet and a specialist in this area. I took my horses off all processed feeds. So much of what is happening in the human world is happening in the horse world. So many human diseases because of improper nutrition, sugars etc. we are slowly killing our horses the same way.

cloverleaf - 2015-07-25 8:54 PM Herbie, I find it interesting that this is beginning to come full circle. Back in the '60's, when my dad was very active in the Quarter Horse business, he only fed whole oats, alfalfa hay, and clean water. His horses had grain and hay in front of them 24/7 and we never had any trouble with colic, founder, or tying up. And trust me, we had a LOT of good horses go through our place! He would slowly build a horse up to full feed when he got it in and, of course, they were exercised daily. He maintained that the closer you kept a horse to Nature, the better off they were. The hay bins were built into the corner of the stall and the horses ate with their heads down. The stalls were concrete blocks halfway up and stout wire mesh the rest of the way- they could see all the other horses in the barn. Shiny hair was brought out by a curry-comb, natural bristle brush, and elbow grease only. We never had any stable vices- I didn't know what those were until I went to college. Daddy showed a lot of former race horse studs- St. Bar and Kidnap Bar to name a couple- and they transitioned great to his program. I have heard that the body doesn't recognize synthetic vitamins- only those that occur naturally. The only thing that concerns me now is the condition of our soils- whether they are depleted or not. We lived in Gainesville on Black Gumbo- awful when it rained but really strong for growing crops and grass! I'm sure it would be a good idea to have your hay checked.