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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
   
Location: Phoenix | has anyone been following this? I'm kind of confused--does anyone have literature they can provide with both sides of the story?? I'm watching the videos on Dustin Borba's FB page....
Edited by hammer_time 2015-08-04 11:57 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | He's pretty easy to spot... They Say he and 164 more horses were kicked loose again back in April.... Why they decided to kick that many stallions back tho...
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | He is gorgeous. Coloring is very unusual. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Well I guess he was pretty weak and about dead so a nearby rancher caught him and brought him back to his ranch because they couldn't bear to see him die. There's no water and they are trying to make a statement about the poor condition of these horses. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
| I was wondering the real story also. I keep getting "clips" on facebook. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I have been following and it is disgusting, There is no water out there and the horses are dying. This Rancher has been watering them and Sarge was on deaths door, if they put him back out he will be. He lead this horse up in a halter and a lead rope and loaded him. He is a very gentle boy and it is sad what the BLM is doing and calling it mangment and it is sad that the Wild horse advocates demonize these ranchers. With out the rancher keeping up water holes for their cattle these horses suffer. Most ranchers may not like these wild horses but they have a heart and won't let them suffer. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I told my boyfriend about and while he thinks it is sad, he says its nature. His stance is that they are WILD mustangs and it's not the human's job to interfere with the process of nature. I see both sides but am not sure about the BLM's responsibilities as far as care for those animals. Surely the herd management could be better to better match the food/water supply but still in the dark.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | And the right management would be to open up the horse slaughter. The excess horses could be harvested just like the DNR does with other wild animals to control over population for the habitat. |
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 7:43 AM And the right management would be to open up the horse slaughter. The excess horses could be harvested just like the DNR does with other wild animals to control over population for the habitat.
I agree! certainly it is more humane than dying of dehydration! |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | hammer_time - 2015-08-05 8:21 AM I told my boyfriend about and while he thinks it is sad, he says its nature. His stance is that they are WILD mustangs and it's not the human's job to interfere with the process of nature. I see both sides but am not sure about the BLM's responsibilities as far as care for those animals. Surely the herd management could be better to better match the food/water supply but still in the dark....
They're in a fence how the heck is that nature? If there's no water or food inside that fence they will die. Let me put your boyfriend in a room without either and see how long he lasts. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| CYA Ranch - 2015-08-05 9:00 AM
hammer_time - 2015-08-05 8:21 AM I told my boyfriend about and while he thinks it is sad, he says its nature. His stance is that they are WILD mustangs and it's not the human's job to interfere with the process of nature. I see both sides but am not sure about the BLM's responsibilities as far as care for those animals. Surely the herd management could be better to better match the food/water supply but still in the dark....
They're in a fence how the heck is that nature? If there's no water or food inside that fence they will die. Let me put your boyfriend in a room without either and see how long he lasts.
That's exactly it. These horses aren't like deer, elk, bears, etc. They only have limited space on this BLM ground, it is fenced, they do not jump and wander like deer, etc. They are reliant on human interference for their survival, especially out there in the desert. It's nice to live in this fantasy world, where we can imagine these horses roaming millions of acres, in abundant grassy lands and rivers and lakes, but that's not reality. Reality is that people have taken these resources from them and now it's our responsibility to take care of them.
Edited by FlyingJT 2015-08-05 10:52 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I've heard some mutterings that these horses were turned back out because of activists and had been caught up. I don't know all the facts but it might be one of those things where everyone is like FREE THE MUSTANGS. Oh crap, now they don't have water. Maybe they were gathered in the first place because of lack of resources and were being managed decently. |
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Here is a link to the videos of the Wild Stallion Sarge! If you know anything about horses or wild horses you know he must be on deaths door to allow himself to be handled like this. It is just sad all over.
https://www.facebook.com/dustin.borba.1/videos/vb.100001252737095/1000226576695757/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/dustin.borba.1/videos/vb.100001252737095/1000932899958458/?type=3&theater |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | FlyingJT - 2015-08-05 7:48 AM CYA Ranch - 2015-08-05 9:00 AM hammer_time - 2015-08-05 8:21 AM I told my boyfriend about and while he thinks it is sad, he says its nature. His stance is that they are WILD mustangs and it's not the human's job to interfere with the process of nature. I see both sides but am not sure about the BLM's responsibilities as far as care for those animals. Surely the herd management could be better to better match the food/water supply but still in the dark.... They're in a fence how the heck is that nature? If there's no water or food inside that fence they will die. Let me put your boyfriend in a room without either and see how long he lasts. That's exactly it. These horses aren't like deer, elk, bears, etc. They only have limited space on this BLM ground, it is fenced, they do not jump and wonder like deer, etc. They are reliant on human interference for their survival, especially out there in the desert. It's nice to live in this fantasy world, where we can imagine these horses roaming millions of acres, in abundant grassy lands and rivers and lakes, but that's not reality. Reality is that people have taken these resources from them and now it's our responsibility to take care of them.
See THIS I did not know. I'm not too familiar with BLM practices. If he knew that they are fenced--his opinion would be different I am sure. |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| I dont want to see the horses die, or suffer. I just dont think that horses are a species that does well without human interaction and care. I get it, wild horses are a symbol of freedom. Most horses in essence are not ment to be wild. The only reason there were ever wild horses roaming is because they escaped from settlers and Europeans in the early days. Activist throw fits when stallions are gelded. Yet, as you can see, Sarge is beat up terribly. Probably from fighting with so many other stallions. They can not "migrate" to better pasture land because they are fenced in. If something isnt done to help control the numbers, more and more horses will be subject to poor living conditions. The BLM obviously is not competent in caring for them either. A sad situation all the way around, with no easy solution. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 10:40 AM
I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature.
I question this. Stop and think..... How many horses could you feed and water with $100,000,000 a year? Even after you hire a whole crew.... Someone needs to do some bargain shopping for hay and stop paying whatever they are paying. I smell a pack of rats making a fortune |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| komet. - 2015-08-06 12:48 PM
BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 10:40 AM
I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature.
I question this. Stop and think..... How many horses could you feed and water with $100,000,000 a year? Even after you hire a whole crew.... Someone needs to do some bargain shopping for hay and stop paying whatever they are paying. I smell a pack of rats making a fortune
Actually, I think those numbers are accurate. It's been awhile since I read the report so I can't remember the specifics. However, I believe that a few years ago they were paying $1.35 per head per day in pasture rent. That totals out to $492.75 per head per year. If there are 100,000 head that have been captured and being cared for privately that totals to $49,275,000 just in pasture rent expenses (if I did my math right!). I honestly don't know how many are in holding facilities or turned out on private pasture, so this is not an actual number. But that cost doesn't factor in the expense of gelding, gathering, hauling, salaries, etc.
Edited to add - Hay prices had been very high the past few years, so anything that was quality enough for horses even if it wasn't top quality was still going to cost quite a bit.
Edited by Jenbabe 2015-08-06 1:34 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Jenbabe - 2015-08-06 1:31 PM
komet. - 2015-08-06 12:48 PM
BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 10:40 AM
I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature.
I question this. Stop and think..... How many horses could you feed and water with $100,000,000 a year? Even after you hire a whole crew.... Someone needs to do some bargain shopping for hay and stop paying whatever they are paying. I smell a pack of rats making a fortune
Actually, I think those numbers are accurate. It's been awhile since I read the report so I can't remember the specifics. However, I believe that a few years ago they were paying $1.35 per head per day in pasture rent. That totals out to $492.75 per head per year. If there are 100,000 head that have been captured and being cared for privately that totals to $49,275,000 just in pasture rent expenses (if I did my math right! ). I honestly don't know how many are in holding facilities or turned out on private pasture, so this is not an actual number. But that cost doesn't factor in the expense of gelding, gathering, hauling, salaries, etc.
Edited to add - Hay prices had been very high the past few years, so anything that was quality enough for horses even if it wasn't top quality was still going to cost quite a bit.
The population of off-range (unadapted or unsold) wild horses and burros maintained in holding facilities is nearly 47,500, as of July 2015. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| komet. - 2015-08-06 1:46 PM
Jenbabe - 2015-08-06 1:31 PM
komet. - 2015-08-06 12:48 PM
BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 10:40 AM
I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature.
I question this. Stop and think..... How many horses could you feed and water with $100,000,000 a year? Even after you hire a whole crew.... Someone needs to do some bargain shopping for hay and stop paying whatever they are paying. I smell a pack of rats making a fortune
Actually, I think those numbers are accurate. It's been awhile since I read the report so I can't remember the specifics. However, I believe that a few years ago they were paying $1.35 per head per day in pasture rent. That totals out to $492.75 per head per year. If there are 100,000 head that have been captured and being cared for privately that totals to $49,275,000 just in pasture rent expenses (if I did my math right! ). I honestly don't know how many are in holding facilities or turned out on private pasture, so this is not an actual number. But that cost doesn't factor in the expense of gelding, gathering, hauling, salaries, etc.
Edited to add - Hay prices had been very high the past few years, so anything that was quality enough for horses even if it wasn't top quality was still going to cost quite a bit.
The population of off-range (unadapted or unsold ) wild horses and burros maintained in holding facilities is nearly 47,500, as of July 2015.
Does that number include those being pastured on private land that are not for sale? I honestly don't know. But I would imagine that the price per head per day to care for one in a holding pen is much higher than the price of pasture rent. And if all expenses other than the actual feed and water bill is figured in, I would imagine they are spending a lot of money. I'll see if I can do a search and find that article.
Edited - Did a quick search and could only find the report for 2008. But that report said they spent $21 million holding animals off the range in 2007 (67% of their budget), with a projected increase to 74% of their budget for 2008. The cost per day in a holding facility was a little over $5 per day at the time. I can only imagine that has increase greatly over the past 7 years.
Edited by Jenbabe 2015-08-06 2:07 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| This link will take you to the most current numbers posted by the BLM
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/whbprogram/history_and_facts/quick... |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| cyount2009 - 2015-08-06 2:17 PM
This link will take you to the most current numbers posted by the BLM
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/whbprogram/history_and_facts/quick...
Thanks! Found a number on there that says they are fed and cared for at more than $43 million per year. The total expenditures for the year 2014 were $67.9 million. Edited by Jenbabe 2015-08-06 2:23 PM
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas |
Any wild animal, not just horses. There is something wrong if one day they decide they just aren't going to be wild any more. |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Jenbabe - 2015-08-06 1:52 PM
komet. - 2015-08-06 1:46 PM
Jenbabe - 2015-08-06 1:31 PM
komet. - 2015-08-06 12:48 PM
BS Hauler - 2015-08-05 10:40 AM
I think that I read somewhere that the Gov is spending like 25 million a quarter on feeding BLM horses in feedlots. They are also renting ranches to put horses on untill they can do something with them. The problem also comes from some kid in LA or Chicago that went to college and got a degree and now has a job with the BLM and thinks that they are an expert. If these horses were managed by local government people that grew up these areas they would understand more what is going on. The BLM wants to quit paying the feed bills on these horse and they can't slaughter them so they are going to just let them starve to death and call it nature.
I question this. Stop and think..... How many horses could you feed and water with $100,000,000 a year? Even after you hire a whole crew.... Someone needs to do some bargain shopping for hay and stop paying whatever they are paying. I smell a pack of rats making a fortune
Actually, I think those numbers are accurate. It's been awhile since I read the report so I can't remember the specifics. However, I believe that a few years ago they were paying $1.35 per head per day in pasture rent. That totals out to $492.75 per head per year. If there are 100,000 head that have been captured and being cared for privately that totals to $49,275,000 just in pasture rent expenses (if I did my math right! ). I honestly don't know how many are in holding facilities or turned out on private pasture, so this is not an actual number. But that cost doesn't factor in the expense of gelding, gathering, hauling, salaries, etc.
Edited to add - Hay prices had been very high the past few years, so anything that was quality enough for horses even if it wasn't top quality was still going to cost quite a bit.
The population of off-range (unadapted or unsold ) wild horses and burros maintained in holding facilities is nearly 47,500, as of July 2015.
Does that number include those being pastured on private land that are not for sale? I honestly don't know. But I would imagine that the price per head per day to care for one in a holding pen is much higher than the price of pasture rent. And if all expenses other than the actual feed and water bill is figured in, I would imagine they are spending a lot of money. I'll see if I can do a search and find that article.
Edited - Did a quick search and could only find the report for 2008. But that report said they spent $21 million holding animals off the range in 2007 (67% of their budget ), with a projected increase to 74% of their budget for 2008. The cost per day in a holding facility was a little over $5 per day at the time. I can only imagine that has increase greatly over the past 7 years.
I agree. The numbers I see on the BLM site say they have twice the number permitted by the 1971 wild horse act. Those are feral horses and should not have ever had access to anything banned. Prime slaughter horses. |
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