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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| What are some things we can do to prevent our horses from bleeding, can they be healed? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 505
| Main thing to prevent is conditioning and fitness for the horse. The horse has to been conditioned to what his job is. A sports medicine vet once told me that barrel racers are notorious for just going out and loping a few circles during the week but then on the weekend asking a horse to run full out. Their lungs are not conditioned to this. He suggested about once a week to sprint 250 yards or so. Build up capillary strength. |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
    
Location: Georgia |
To my knowledge there is nothing that can prevent a horse from becoming a bleeder. Most horses that sprint - like race horses and barrel horses - will bleed. Some bleed more often than others. Causes range from the air temperature, to the hardness of the ground they are running on, and sometimes just the anatomy of a particular horse. Coughing during/after a horse runs is a well known sign, as well as slowing down prematurely. And obvioulsly bleeding from the nose is a sure sign. There are ways to treat it. Lasix is the most popular method and some people believe it is the only way. However, even Lasix does not stop it completely. Nasal strips are also a great tool to make sure they are able to get the oxygen they need and take some stress off the respiratory system. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Conditioning is key... Most bleeders that I've been around are not truly fit before they are asked to perform. Once a horse bleeds, they are more predisposed to bleeding again, but that's not to say that they can't be made healthier.
Dust and allergies also play a role, as well as humidity I'm sure. Lingering respiratory issues...You just have to know your horse and pay attention to what they're telling you. An alley issue will always start out as anxiety. |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | My vet said the same thing. He rides polo horses, he said if you keep them fit they won't bleed. I feed oats. I took one of mine off oats and he started bleeding, put him back on oats and he stopped. Never had a bleeder on oats. |
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Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I have to disagree to an extent about keeping them fit. Yes, I'm sure it helps a ton but I know of two horses that bleed that are in great shape! So I'm not convinced that will keep them from bleeding. |
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 The Brave One
Posts: 20550
Location: snowbelt, WA | Runninbay - 2015-08-13 8:55 PM
I have to disagree to an extent about keeping them fit. Yes, I'm sure it helps a ton but I know of two horses that bleed that are in great shape! So I'm not convinced that will keep them from bleeding.
the one I had bleed on me was in fantastic shape. Had a track vet and the first words out his mouth was there is no way it is a fitness issue.I do believe they better be in shape or they will but that isn't the only cause. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | While I think them being in shape does help, nutrition is the biggest factor to me in helping prevent or to keep one under control. Horses' bodies are designed to graze most of the day with a constant variety of vegetation. When we keep them stalled up getting straight alfalfa with sweet feed day in and day out, how can you expect their body to be healthy. Horses are not meant to tolerate these kinds of feeds, especially those with molasses or other high sugar content. IMO, if you take a look at your feed program you will get better answers. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Feed to win is a great book to have. I know of several race trainers that don't have bleeders. Nutrition is one. The other is common sense knowing when to stop before blowing out the capilaries. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| sixpatches - 2015-08-14 10:32 AM
Runninbay - 2015-08-13 8:55 PM
I have to disagree to an extent about keeping them fit. Yes, I'm sure it helps a ton but I know of two horses that bleed that are in great shape! So I'm not convinced that will keep them from bleeding.
the one I had bleed on me was in fantastic shape. Had a track vet and the first words out his mouth was there is no way it is a fitness issue.I do believe they better be in shape or they will but that isn't the only cause.
I'd second this, look at ALL the extremely fit racehorses who bleed. |
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Veteran
Posts: 112
| 3rdtimesacharm - 2015-08-13 7:30 PM My vet said the same thing. He rides polo horses, he said if you keep them fit they won't bleed. I feed oats. I took one of mine off oats and he started bleeding, put him back on oats and he stopped. Never had a bleeder on oats.
Although, in my opinion, oats are a better feed options, they will not keep one from bleeding. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | Griz - 2015-08-14 10:05 AM sixpatches - 2015-08-14 10:32 AM Runninbay - 2015-08-13 8:55 PM
I have to disagree to an extent about keeping them fit. Yes, I'm sure it helps a ton but I know of two horses that bleed that are in great shape! So I'm not convinced that will keep them from bleeding. the one I had bleed on me was in fantastic shape. Had a track vet and the first words out his mouth was there is no way it is a fitness issue.I do believe they better be in shape or they will but that isn't the only cause. I'd second this, look at ALL the extremely fit racehorses who bleed.
I agree with this. If you look at what they are being fed rather than how conditioned they are, it will give you a better idea of why they might bleed. |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | Griz - 2015-08-14 11:05 AM
sixpatches - 2015-08-14 10:32 AM
Runninbay - 2015-08-13 8:55 PM
I have to disagree to an extent about keeping them fit. Yes, I'm sure it helps a ton but I know of two horses that bleed that are in great shape! So I'm not convinced that will keep them from bleeding.
the one I had bleed on me was in fantastic shape. Had a track vet and the first words out his mouth was there is no way it is a fitness issue.I do believe they better be in shape or they will but that isn't the only cause.
I'd second this, look at ALL the extremely fit racehorses who bleed.
IMO only. I disagree. Yes. Racehorses are fit. BUT. How often do they blow them out like they do during a race? yes they breeze them during the week. But when racing, they are full out sprinting for the win. Same with barrel horses. I'm sure respitory issues can play a factor. But IMO it's a matter of conditioning the LUNGS.***notice I didn't say the horse***you have to condition the lungs for sprinting. loping doesn't do that. only sprinting does. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | tin can - 2015-08-13 3:27 PM What are some things we can do to prevent our horses from bleeding, can they be healed?
I have a bleeder and for mine - I try #1 to keep him pain free. As pain can cause your blood pressure to go up increasing the risk of bleeding. I avoid dust and dusty areas as much as possible. I dont clean stalls or sweep the barn while he is near it and that has helped a bunch. I wet his hay too. I give him MSM daily to help with any inflammation in airway.
I give mine lasix and kentucky red when he runs, We ride him 5 days a week and do some sprints during the week too to keep his lungs conditioned.I rest him for a few weeks every 3-4 months to give his lungs a break and time to heal if any issues are going on and I like to give him time off from the lasix and kentucky red just to let his body reset itself
I try not to keep him in the stall too much as I want him out with his head down so the nasal cavities can drain naturally. I feed all mine on the ground as well as hay on the ground in tubs
Biggest thing to me is you have a bleed occur to give them time off and do antibiotics and a trachea wash if your vet can do it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1410
Location: Peach State | So for the people who have bleeders... Do you give them Lasix at home in order to sprint them to keep them in running shape?.
I have a bleeder and ride around 5times a week. Long trotting, loping circles walking up hills and I'll let him stretch out for a few strides in the pasture some but I'm always afraid to run him or ask him without being on Lasix. I always give him Lasix before a race and he's been on lung aid for a month now after switching from oxy-max he's doing great no cough, hasn't bled in 5months has no evidence of a recent bled last time he was scoped. |
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Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | RunninOnARooster - 2015-08-14 5:52 PM So for the people who have bleeders... Do you give them Lasix at home in order to sprint them to keep them in running shape?. I have a bleeder and ride around 5times a week. Long trotting, loping circles walking up hills and I'll let him stretch out for a few strides in the pasture some but I'm always afraid to run him or ask him without being on Lasix. I always give him Lasix before a race and he's been on lung aid for a month now after switching from oxy-max he's doing great no cough, hasn't bled in 5months has no evidence of a recent bled last time he was scoped. I dont give lasix at home unless I am going to run him out - mine is fine running the pattern and pulling up at third, we are safe there
A lot of times I lope to one barrel sprint to the next and lope then sprint - to slow his breathing down - I do an exercise with mine - 4 corner barrels - I make all right turns or all left turns and I alternate sprint to lope then I drop to trot and walk and repeat
If you dont sprint him during the week you are not conditioning the lungs for hsi weekend runs and therefore making him more likely to have a bleed
Its like someone jogging 4 miles a day - then entering the 100 meter dash - they are in shape but their body isnt conditioned for it and therefore will not perform as good as the other people that do interval training
Edited by Lmichaels 2015-08-15 9:19 AM
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 Veteran
Posts: 133
Location: texas | equi-resp treatments help!!! i get my treatments done for 25 bucks and its well worth it!!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | Equi-Resp and I give all of mine Bleeder Stop by Oxygen, whether they are bleeders or not. It helps build up the lungs and prevent inflammation, so it's good for all of them! |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Fitness is key, but I agree with the others that says its not enough. Sometimes they will bleed in spite of our best efforts.
I had one bleed out the other day.. it was hot and dry, then a HUGE thunder storm came in, made the air muggy and cooler, and she bled. I am proceeding like she will always bleed so I will run on lasix...
But I do have a horse who has bled before and is not a bleeder. We scoped and did a BAL and she has inflammatory airway disease, not EIPH. We do inhaled steroids with her and equi-resp and she does not cough anymore.
I do equi-resp treatments on anything I suspect has airway issues.. the one that bled is getting nebulized during the week now.
For the one that we have known has IAD, I feed her THE performance formula and add the bleeder, allergy, cough to the mix. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
| 98% of racehorses run on Lasix and they are fit, healthy, and get more vitamins that the average athlete. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 505
| Most racehorse run on Lasix as a precaution, not because they are "known" bleeders. Also they tracks are phasing out using Lasix.
Edited by rattleandroll 2015-08-17 9:58 AM
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I said conditioning is key, but I didn't say that it's the only reason. I also said that once they bleed, they are more predisposed to bleeding again. The question was, How to prevent making a bleeder? My answer is the best thing you can do is make sure that they are truly fit. We all see posts on here and on FB made by people who admit that they haven't even been on their horse in a month and went a made a run on them.
How do you know that your incredibly fit horse has always been fit when being asked to exert themselves?
Maybe it's more "google regurgitation" but, I've read an article that quoted this book and could remember enough of it to find the book, but not the article: https://books.google.com/books?id=eUm7gmq7Cw4C&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=%22gradual+climb+to+a+higher+level+of+fitness%22&source=bl&ots=4oFSqJRI_2&sig=NouMINcIPHbyllauBqo8E09MPxU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMImaz8j8qwxwIVSC2ICh01rwC7#v=onepage&q=%22gradual%20climb%20to%20a%20higher%20level%20of%20fitness%22&f=false |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I 100% agree about conditioning but I have also read that one theory is the concussion from the hoofs hitting the ground travels up to the lungs and that combined with other factors contributes to bleeding. I have always wondered why my bleeeder has not bled after swimming, I have scoped twice after swimmimg and we pushed him to be sure he was breathing hard. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | rodeomom3 - 2015-08-17 12:02 PM I 100% agree about conditioning but I have also read that one theory is the concussion from the hoofs hitting the ground travels up to the lungs and that combined with other factors contributes to bleeding. I have always wondered why my bleeeder has not bled after swimming, I have scoped twice after swimmimg and we pushed him to be sure he was breathing hard.
Wouldn't dust be eliminated as a factor when swimming though?
I think that some instances we inadvertently create the "perfect storm" for problems like this. Indoor pens, poor vaccination practices, poor ventilation, dust, tractor smoke, less conditioning when the weather is too hot/cold, running a horse that has bled previously without doing a round of antibiotics, as well as using a "hotter" feed than necessary for your weekend barrel horse, etc. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | I agree with conditioning is the biggest key in prevention. |
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How to prevent making a bleeder