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 Expert
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Location: Somewhere around here | I've never used a bicycle chain mouthpiece before (and I hope to never have to use one) but what are some reasons why a rider would want to use a bit with that mouthpiece? I figure if a horse is that hard mouthed, it would most likely have a problem somewhere else.
Thoughts? |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
 
Location: Midwest | I like a regular chain mouthpiece, but have never used one of these. I'm curious as well. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | You can be really light with it and get one to back one off the bit. I've never used one, but would not hesitate. Personally, I'd rather use a heavy bit lightly than a light bit heavily! |
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | linds - 2015-08-18 11:21 AM
You can be really light with it and get one to back one off the bit. I've never used one, but would not hesitate. Personally, I'd rather use a heavy bit lightly than a light bit heavily!
Definitely agree with that!! I can't stand watching some ladies pull their horse around a pattern with a small gag bit. They think they're being good by having a lighter bit on their horse but not so if they are jerking them around everywhere. |
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 Regular
Posts: 54
| Why not just use barbed wire? Gently of course. |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | It can be a very nice tool for a tougher horse. Obviously the goal is to get them lighter and gain a little respect the easiest way possible. And the comment on barbed wire is ridiculous. My gelding is being rode in one currently and I'll just lightly say there is a good reason. Another obvious is you better have light hands and be able to read your horse before you use this (or any other bit for that matter) |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | cecollins0811 - 2015-08-18 11:25 AM
linds - 2015-08-18 11:21 AM
You can be really light with it and get one to back one off the bit. I've never used one, but would not hesitate. Personally, I'd rather use a heavy bit lightly than a light bit heavily!
Definitely agree with that!! I can't stand watching some ladies pull their horse around a pattern with a small gag bit. They think they're being good by having a lighter bit on their horse but not so if they are jerking them around everywhere.
Exactly |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Every bit can be harsh in the wrong hands, I honestly wouldn't use one unless the horse really needed it. I do like the bike chain nosebands though, they just give a totally different FEEL than regular rope nosebands. I put thin vet wrap on it just to keep from catching hair, but I find you get more finer responses since it bends to their noses. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| What kind of action does it have? Work off lips, bars, tongue.....? By the looks, as I have never used one and don't own one, when it's engaged it would become stiff(for lack of a better word), not like a regular chain that would still lay flat across the tongue. Do you use it on an o'ring or fixed shankes? |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| MYQHFilly - 2015-08-18 6:05 PM Why not just use barbed wire? Gently of course.
I think some do..... lol! My opinion is, why not try to understand why your horse is so stiff in the poll and bracey on the bit? Maybe, just maybe, he's got ligament damage (from a hard set back) between his skull and his first vertebre that is now painful- and that's why he is resisting the bit. Or maybe his atlas is twisted to one side and so he can't turn correctly, and now that every bit and tie-down/martingale combination has been thrown at him, he is pretty convinced that he has to brace really really hard against anything in his mouth that tries to twist his head in a direction it is stuck in. Just maybe a thought- might want to check into that before you throw a bike chain in his mouth- |
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  JMHO
Posts: 1869
Location: Oklahoma | I must confess to using a mule type bit. My gelding bends, flexes and works fantastic all day long and is light and very responsive..... until I'm trying to get him to the ally. He Wants to GO when he wants to go. He's 16.3H and has no problem with running over who ever or what ever when he wants to take off. ziiipping up my flame suit. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | 
If you feel the need to do this to your horse's mouth, well . . . . I think the picture pretty much says it.
I'm not a fan of these. While I might sit and debate some of the benefits of a WELL MADE chain bit in terms of lying flatter on the tongue of certain horses that hate the nutcracker effect of a snaffle or other types of mouthpieces, I really don't see the benefits of this bit. You could do nothing but put this in your horse's mouth and you would risk causing sores on the tongue. We get our vets to take care of our horse's teeth so they can eat well and prevent lacerations and ulcers in the mouth. I know of a horse who developed a jaw infection after being ridden in one of these and had to be put down because of the infection. Even if you need a bit with a bit more whoa there are MANY better options. Even a waterford is better than this. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| That is about the harshest mouthpiece you can come up with. There is no way I would use that on anything. If that works using light hands, then another bit would work too and not be cutting their mouth up. That is a good bit to get things headed downhill in a hurry with. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | oija - 2015-08-19 5:18 PM
If you feel the need to do this to your horse's mouth, well . . . . I think the picture pretty much says it. I'm not a fan of these. While I might sit and debate some of the benefits of a WELL MADE chain bit in terms of lying flatter on the tongue of certain horses that hate the nutcracker effect of a snaffle or other types of mouthpieces, I really don't see the benefits of this bit. You could do nothing but put this in your horse's mouth and you would risk causing sores on the tongue. We get our vets to take care of our horse's teeth so they can eat well and prevent lacerations and ulcers in the mouth. I know of a horse who developed a jaw infection after being ridden in one of these and had to be put down because of the infection. Even if you need a bit with a bit more whoa there are MANY better options. Even a waterford is better than this.
Agree... I like a chain on my gelding because he has a low pallete and previous mouth injury, but I mostly ride and run him in a hack for that reason.
I really can't see a good use for the points on these mouthpieces. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | I have used them and would do it again; HOWEVER, i dont use it with the pointy site toward the horse. I use them flipped where the rounded side touches the horse.
They actually have a really nice feel and horses carry them well. It is one of my favorite bits for exercising. If I am running in a big pattern I use it to run on one of my horses. She gets to running too hard and needs something more.
I have not torn up any mouths with this bit, and have seen way more damage with a twist or a screw bit than with this one. Not everyone should or can use one, but they aren't a bad tool.
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | clover girl - 2015-08-20 8:32 AM
I have used them and would do it again; HOWEVER, i dont use it with the pointy site toward the horse. I use them flipped where the rounded side touches the horse.
They actually have a really nice feel and horses carry them well. It is one of my favorite bits for exercising. If I am running in a big pattern I use it to run on one of my horses. She gets to running too hard and needs something more.
I have not torn up any mouths with this bit, and have seen way more damage with a twist or a screw bit than with this one. Not everyone should or can use one, but they aren't a bad tool.
I like the idea of having the smooth side on their tounge, and with all the breaks it woukd obviously work well with a horse that needs a bit with bend, but I'd be worried 5 the sharp parts scraping the too of a low palleted mouthed horse. |
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Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | cecollins0811 - 2015-08-20 9:44 AM
clover girl - 2015-08-20 8:32 AM
I have used them and would do it again; HOWEVER, i dont use it with the pointy site toward the horse. I use them flipped where the rounded side touches the horse.
They actually have a really nice feel and horses carry them well. It is one of my favorite bits for exercising. If I am running in a big pattern I use it to run on one of my horses. She gets to running too hard and needs something more.
I have not torn up any mouths with this bit, and have seen way more damage with a twist or a screw bit than with this one. Not everyone should or can use one, but they aren't a bad tool.
I like the idea of having the smooth side on their tounge, and with all the breaks it woukd obviously work well with a horse that needs a bit with bend, but I'd be worried 5 the sharp parts scraping the too of a low palleted mouthed horse.
EVEN IF the points don't scrape the roof of their mouth, they will leave lacerations on the bars of the horse on their upper jaw. Still pretty darn nasty.  |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| oija - 2015-08-20 8:22 AM cecollins0811 - 2015-08-20 9:44 AM clover girl - 2015-08-20 8:32 AM I have used them and would do it again; HOWEVER, i dont use it with the pointy site toward the horse. I use them flipped where the rounded side touches the horse.
They actually have a really nice feel and horses carry them well. It is one of my favorite bits for exercising. If I am running in a big pattern I use it to run on one of my horses. She gets to running too hard and needs something more.
I have not torn up any mouths with this bit, and have seen way more damage with a twist or a screw bit than with this one. Not everyone should or can use one, but they aren't a bad tool.
I like the idea of having the smooth side on their tounge, and with all the breaks it woukd obviously work well with a horse that needs a bit with bend, but I'd be worried 5 the sharp parts scraping the too of a low palleted mouthed horse. EVEN IF the points don't scrape the roof of their mouth, they will leave lacerations on the bars of the horse on their upper jaw. Still pretty darn nasty.
Oija- you and I just gotta look away from this one- you can't reason with these people-  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | trickster j - 2015-08-18 11:10 PM
MYQHFilly - 2015-08-18 6:05 PM Why not just use barbed wire? Gently of course.
I think some do..... lol! My opinion is, why not try to understand why your horse is so stiff in the poll and bracey on the bit? Maybe, just maybe, he's got ligament damage (from a hard set back) between his skull and his first vertebre that is now painful- and that's why he is resisting the bit. Or maybe his atlas is twisted to one side and so he can't turn correctly, and now that every bit and tie-down/martingale combination has been thrown at him, he is pretty convinced that he has to brace really really hard against anything in his mouth that tries to twist his head in a direction it is stuck in. Just maybe a thought- might want to check into that before you throw a bike chain in his mouth-
I would explore the reason as well. My horse was bracing against the bit, taking it from me, not stopping etc. His TMJ was out really bad. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | When I first saw one of these I thought is was a joke. Like the three foot shank curb bit you used to see as a joke called the "Whoa Mutha". Ray Hunt used to talk about people buying their tack at True Value Hardware stores. I guess they might stock these. I just can't get behind them. I have never seen a horse that was so unbroke that you could not find a better solution than this. You need to take a step back and find a better feel than this, in my opinion. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 1:58 PM I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth.
Amen to that |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| OregonBR - 2015-08-20 11:58 AM Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth. True that not ALL horses are created equal, and with that being said, we can also say that not ALL trainers are created equal...
eta: I know the type of twisted wire bit you are talking about- it's not anything like a bike chain, there is no comparison there-
Edited by trickster j 2015-08-20 2:32 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 1:58 PM Just some information to make your judgements on. ALL horses are not created equal in any manner. Even in their mouth and their sensitivity there. I've never used a mule bit on a horse but I did have an appendix mare I broke and trained from day one that just wouldn't respond with a normal snaffle bit. She didn't like leverage bits or hackamores either. What I finally hung on her that she liked and responded well to was a twisted wire snaffle with a mouth piece of two wires wrapped that were the size of a #2 pencil lead. I mean small. That was something I could be very gentle with her and she would listen. I NEVER had to get rough with her to get her attention like I did in a regular bit I would have LOVED to use on her.
Her mother had the lightest most responsive mouth of any horse I've ever ridden. I ran her in next to nothing and barely touched her with it. But the daughter by a TB did NOT get that from her. If you have good hand and seat that you're not jerking or tearing on their mouth on the barrels then I have no problem with someone using any type of bit. I see many people running barrels who do NOT have good hands or seat. They are all over the place. That's cruel no matter what bit is in their mouth.
You are talking about something similar to this:
This is not a kind bit, fairly prone to pinch. But I would not argue with you putting it on a horse so hard. I can see some purpose to it.
But a bike chain bit or a screw bit:
Are much nastier with sharper edges that are MEANT to cut and poke. The double twisted snaffle would not be comfortable but you are going to have to pull or seesaw to create lacerations. There is no such thing as 'light hands' with a bike chain or screw bit. The horse can sit at the trailer with the **** thing on and cut their tongue simply by mouthing at it--no hands involved. Anything that automatically hurts their mouth without even riding should not be put in it. Heck even a war bonnet tie down only engages if the horse actually bumps their head up high enough or drops it to buck. The horse can give themselves some release. There is no release from sharp metal points on your tongue, palette and bars. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
Still nowhere near as bad as the bike chain . . . |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
Live link http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bi...
Bit...
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| komet. - 2015-08-20 4:10 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 4:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ Live link http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bi... Bit...
This is the bit that Oregon has compared to the bike chain? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post. |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| GLP - 2015-08-20 6:11 PM I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post.
OK- thanks! I apparantly can't keep up with this thread!  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| trickster j - 2015-08-20 10:21 PM
GLP - 2015-08-20 6:11 PM I don't think she was comparing the bits, just saying it was surprising what some horses tolerate that others won't. At least that's how I read her post.
OK- thanks! I apparantly can't keep up with this thread!
Isn't it interesting how different we perceive the same thing? I could be wrong in my interpretation. I think that is one of the things that makes this site so interesting. I know I have been misunderstood on here and also misunderstood other people, too, especially on a long thread like this one.  |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM
No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/
A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | svincent - 2015-08-20 8:48 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle.
The more area a mouthpiece on a bit covers the less severe it is. That's why the thin mouthpiece on the snaffle I posted I consider more severe than the double twisted that was posted. It may be interpretation. I've never owned a double twisted wire. It seems right up the ally of a tom thumb; a bit that is poorly designed and doesn't have the effect I want. I've tried some bits on horses I thought they would like and they didn't. Yet other horses did. So it's partially trial and error. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | OregonBR - 2015-08-21 8:48 AM
svincent - 2015-08-20 8:48 PM OregonBR - 2015-08-20 2:24 PM No. It was finer and not double. Double is less severe than a single. These never show up as live links. But this is as close as I could find. Mine has a simple O ring. I also have a mouthpiece with short shanks which is more severe yet. But all you have to do is touch it. http://www.smithbrothers.com/don-dodge-twisted-weld-wire-snaffle-bit/p/X3-010390/ A double twisted snaffle is MUCH more severe than a single twisted wire snaffle.
You're totally right about the double mouthpiece being poorly designed and misused. I've never ridden in one, and never plan to. Nothing about them does anything good for a horse.
I misunderstood your statement about the severity. I totally agree, all other things equal, the thin mouthpiece is harsher than a thick one. :) |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | if this is the best way you have to deal with a horse, I feel sorry for you. Let me rake this through your mouth and see what you won't do!
Edited by komet. 2015-08-23 5:18 PM
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bike chains go on bikes, not in horses mouths. There is absolutely no reason on this earth to use an abusive bit of this sort. If you think your horse, you are absolutely nobody ever has or ever will NEED this bit. Can some people use it as a crutch to make up for lack of training or riding skills? Absolutely. It is not possible to use one of these gently. They are by the nature of their construction, harsh, cruel bits. Show these to any English rider and you will be laughed out if their barn. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| I had a horse about 40 years ago that had been mishandled before I bought him. Everyone recommended that I use different bits and they got tougher and tougher. The horse got worse and worse. He ran away with me one day and I got rid of him the next week. I learned a lot from that bad arse son of a gun. Not just about bits. The thing that I did learn about bits is that less is more. If I had taken the time (and had the knowledge) to start him over with a light bit, I would have had a top notch horse because he certainly had the ability. He did not fight the bits, he just did not respond to them. I am just passing along a little knowledge that I wish I had known back then.
Just a funny reflection here---- I was at Joseys up in the trophy room. I leaned back on the bench I was sitting on and my head hit an old bridle that Martha used to use. It had a bit with shanks that were about 8 inches long. I used to use the same bit way back when. I had to laugh because the older I have gotten the shorter shank I use. My main got to bit is a Jr Cowhorse and its shanks are about 3 inches long.
Less is more folks. |
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