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 Expert
Posts: 1857
   
| Almost every year I fight episodes of laminitis in a gelding of mine... Usually happens in the spring when the grass comes in. I do my best to prevent it but sometimes it just happens. Treat it and a week or so he's good to go and we have no more problems until spring again. Well, he is having trouble again. It's mild, sound in straight lines, soft ground, sore and off turning and on hard ground. I've pulled him off pasture and stopped all feed. Iced his feet for the first couple days, along with bute. This spell is lasting a lot longer, going on 2 weeks.
Has any one battled this and have you had success in any of the following:
Heart Bar shoes, would they be of any help in giving the hoof wall relief to heal?
Lily Pads, do they work?
What supplements will help prevent flair ups and help heal the laminae?
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | THE has NitrOxide that is great for laminitis along with NutraWOUND. I have several customers that have really helped their horses with this stuff. I have personally used the NitrOxide on 2 mares, 1 had IR and the other we bought with shoes on and that should have been a red flag. As soon as they were pulled her feet literally fell apart. Both were by Hot Colours.
I have a pony that has foundered often in the past before we owned him due to grass pasture. Honestly the best thing to do, is pull them off pasture at the very first sign of any green, if not before that. My pony doesn't get to see pasture again until it cures late summer. I think here in WY that is usually around July. He hasn't had a single issue doing that. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | following |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I am guessing your horse will never be able to go back on grass.
You need to evaluate your feeding program, eliminate all sugars, including alfalfa as it has high sugars, no oats, etc.
Latest research is showing beer is beneficial for foundered horses, my vet has his 36 yr old stud who is laminitic and cushings on 6 beer a day the horse is walking better.
I have one who is similar, she can't be on grass, I bought her back after 2 years, on grass she got progressively worse, pulled her off, put her on remission, and Lubrysin after 2 weeks she was sound again.
Remission is a nitric oxide product, much cheaper then THE products. And my horses had results with remission and not THE.
If you do go with THE they do have a 45 day guarantee but you have to notify them before 45 days. I tried their product for 4 months, didn't know about the guarantee until 6 months after I received it, I messaged them as it didn't work for me, explained my situation, my horse (different one) is a chronic founder so I tried for an entire 4 months, and had no positive changes. They told me I was SOL. Just an FYI
Good luck
I would also keep your horse on banamine 5-10 cc every 12 hrs till symptoms resolve the reason banamine is it is a smooth muscle relaxant as well as an antiinflammatory which assists in reducing the inflammation, increasing blood flow while decreasing pressure in the feet. Speak to you vet about this |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Also I have xrayd to see where the coffin bone is and trimmed then re xrayed as you need to trim to the coffin bone.
It takes 18 months for the foot to grow out.
I would shoe as the pounding/vibration causes inflammation.
I bought hoof boots, and you can buy inserts so they walk on the sole not the hoof wall.
Also soft rides are great for this as well |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| He is not foundered....
At this point there is no rotation.
I'm fully aware of what causes and try my hardest to prevent it. I limit turn out time in the spring and try to keep his weight down along with making sure his flat pan feet are taken care of on a regular basis.
I just want to know what others do for maintenance: shoeing, supplements, and out of the box things that they have tried that might have worked. Any experiences with using things like the Lily Pad when they have episodes, things like that.
Also has anyone been told that hind gut issues could be the cause of grade 1&2 laminitis? After some research I have read a few articles that suggest it.
There has got to be others with horses that are susceptible to mild laminitis and have battled it too. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2015-08-20 9:25 PM He is not foundered.... At this point there is no rotation. I'm fully aware of what causes and try my hardest to prevent it. I limit turn out time in the spring and try to keep his weight down along with making sure his flat pan feet are taken care of on a regular basis. I just want to know what others do for maintenance: shoeing, supplements, and out of the box things that they have tried that might have worked. Any experiences with using things like the Lily Pad when they have episodes, things like that. Also has anyone been told that hind gut issues could be the cause of grade 1&2 laminitis? After some research I have read a few articles that suggest it. There has got to be others with horses that are susceptible to mild laminitis and have battled it too.
really look into insulin Resistance. I have a 10 yr old gelding that I highy suspect of it. They can have sore feet etc and never really founder until later as they age. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-08-20 10:55 PM
FlyingJT - 2015-08-20 9:25 PM He is not foundered.... At this point there is no rotation. I'm fully aware of what causes and try my hardest to prevent it. I limit turn out time in the spring and try to keep his weight down along with making sure his flat pan feet are taken care of on a regular basis. I just want to know what others do for maintenance: shoeing, supplements, and out of the box things that they have tried that might have worked. Any experiences with using things like the Lily Pad when they have episodes, things like that. Also has anyone been told that hind gut issues could be the cause of grade 1&2 laminitis? After some research I have read a few articles that suggest it. There has got to be others with horses that are susceptible to mild laminitis and have battled it too.
really look into insulin Resistance. I have a 10 yr old gelding that I highy suspect of it. They can have sore feet etc and never really founder until later as they age.
Would he have to have Cushings for that? |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FlyingJT - 2015-08-20 10:10 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2015-08-20 10:55 PM
FlyingJT - 2015-08-20 9:25 PM He is not foundered.... At this point there is no rotation. I'm fully aware of what causes and try my hardest to prevent it. I limit turn out time in the spring and try to keep his weight down along with making sure his flat pan feet are taken care of on a regular basis. I just want to know what others do for maintenance: shoeing, supplements, and out of the box things that they have tried that might have worked. Any experiences with using things like the Lily Pad when they have episodes, things like that. Also has anyone been told that hind gut issues could be the cause of grade 1&2 laminitis? After some research I have read a few articles that suggest it. There has got to be others with horses that are susceptible to mild laminitis and have battled it too.
really look into insulin Resistance. I have a 10 yr old gelding that I highy suspect of it. They can have sore feet etc and never really founder until later as they age.
Would he have to have Cushings for that?
Not that I am aware. My mare that had it never had any other signs of Cushings. The vet just called it IR and described it as a metabolic issue where their systems can't handle sugars. I am sure she was much more complicated than that, but that is what I got out of it. My son's horse that I mentioned hasn't been rode in ages and is just on grass pasture, dry grass at that and he came to us with rolls of fat on his fat. A thick cresty neck and a dimple down his spine that I could roll a golf ball back and forth. Did some asking around and I do wonder if he has IR or some other form of a metabolic issue/sugars. So I am putting him on a supplement to see what happens. He'll get no pasture turnout in the spring just to be safe. So far he hasn't acted a bit sore footed though.
Here are some reads I found doing a quick google search.
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/insulin-resistance
http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/resources/eTips/October_2010/Didyo...
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Here is another article. The thing about IR is they can be really fat like my gelding or they can loose a weight as was the case with my mare. We had no idea she was sick. She would get sore feet in the spring, but not so bad she limped. We had her roughly 6-8 yrs with no issues and it was like overnight she foundered and in about 4 days lost a ton of weight. We got her in off pasture (this was probably in June/July) and gave her hay. She was better in about a week so we turned her back out with the mares. She had another episode immediately after a much needed rain and I imagine it made the grass grow literally over night and the sugars were worse. We had to keep her in and I sold her/actually gave her away that fall to a home that could manage her diet. We don't keep any of our mares in the corral so she couldn't stay here.
http://animalscience.uconn.edu/extension/publications/insulinresistance.htm |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-08-21 12:03 AM
Here is another article. The thing about IR is they can be really fat like my gelding or they can loose a weight as was the case with my mare. We had no idea she was sick. She would get sore feet in the spring, but not so bad she limped. We had her roughly 6-8 yrs with no issues and it was like overnight she foundered and in about 4 days lost a ton of weight. We got her in off pasture (this was probably in June/July) and gave her hay. She was better in about a week so we turned her back out with the mares. She had another episode immediately after a much needed rain and I imagine it made the grass grow literally over night and the sugars were worse. We had to keep her in and I sold her/actually gave her away that fall to a home that could manage her diet. We don't keep any of our mares in the corral so she couldn't stay here.
http://animalscience.uconn.edu/extension/publications/insulinresistance.htm
Thank you, I'm going to look into this and bring it up to my vet... This could very well be why I fight it with him so much. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FlyingJT - 2015-08-20 10:25 PM
He is not foundered....
At this point there is no rotation.
I'm fully aware of what causes and try my hardest to prevent it. I limit turn out time in the spring and try to keep his weight down along with making sure his flat pan feet are taken care of on a regular basis.
I just want to know what others do for maintenance: shoeing, supplements, and out of the box things that they have tried that might have worked. Any experiences with using things like the Lily Pad when they have episodes, things like that.
Also has anyone been told that hind gut issues could be the cause of grade 1&2 laminitis? After some research I have read a few articles that suggest it.
There has got to be others with horses that are susceptible to mild laminitis and have battled it too.
Yes hind gut can cause laminitis, the hind gut can actually cause full blown founder.
When the ph has been shifted in the hind gut, it releases endotoxins which cause an inflammatory reaction, and generally affects the feet.
A shift in ph can be caused from stress, feed ( fermentable sugars such as grass, oats, etc)
My chronic founder was a result of a gi bleed in the hind gut that caused her to founder.
I would be proactive with the medications as laminitis is the first step to founder, once the lamania starts tearing it is difficult to stop.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Off the top of my head, though I've never dealt with this:
A grazing muzzle would help limit grass intake
Animed makes a supplement called "Remission". I have heard good reviews but don't have one with this issue so can't comment.
Perhaps also purchase some Soft Rides or pack his feet until he feels better
Pour in pads (equipak) worked wonderfully when my horse had bruised feet.
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | barrelracr131 - 2015-08-21 8:11 AM Off the top of my head, though I've never dealt with this:
A grazing muzzle would help limit grass intake
Animed makes a supplement called "Remission". I have heard good reviews but don't have one with this issue so can't comment.
Perhaps also purchase some Soft Rides or pack his feet until he feels better
Pour in pads (equipak) worked wonderfully when my horse had bruised feet.
I agree with the softrides. I bought a pair and used them on both mares. Was a life saver when the one shipped back east. I have 2 pair that are a close enough fit for most of my horses instead of trying to get a pair for each and every one. I had a gelding trimmed too short this past winter and the frozen ground made him miserable. I kept him in the corral with them on and slowly weaned him out of them as the ground thawed during the day.
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Location: Big Blue Skies | Could this cause a horse to have swollen legs as well? My horse had swollen legs and then tried to founder. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | blueskies - 2015-08-21 8:36 PM Could this cause a horse to have swollen legs as well? My horse had swollen legs and then tried to founder.
That almost sounds more like a reaction to something? They can get that after a vaccine. I vaccinated my husband's horse on a Wed and on Monday morning his right front leg was swollen so much from the forearm down it looked like the skin would split. It can be caused by an allergic reaction and if left untreated they can founder. Ours didn't get better after a day of the steroid so we took him in to find out he had broken his shoulder  . We had to have him put down. He was still putting weight on it so we had no idea. It took a couple days for the swelling to change so the shoulder did actually look dropped later. All that swelling kept it looking normal up above. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Ok, we got one nostril with white/yellow mucous, so he's got an infection. Could that be the cause. We have an appointment at OSU next wendesday, unless he gets worse. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I would encourage you to contact Dr. Schell at Nouvelle Research and post your question in the forum at www.secondvet.com. Lots to consider in the case of laminitis, but I know he can help you! What he has done for my horse, and now others, is nothing short of a miracle! I will attach an article he wrote regarding laminitis. I hope you'll take the time to post on the second vet forum so we can read and learn from this as well!
https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/315-laminitis-in-the-horse
Edited by Herbie 2015-08-22 8:27 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Herbie - 2015-08-22 8:24 AM
I would encourage you to contact Dr. Schell at Nouvelle Research and post your question in the forum at www.secondvet.com. Lots to consider in the case of laminitis, but I know he can help you! What he has done for my horse, and now others, is nothing short of a miracle! I will attach an article he wrote regarding laminitis. I hope you'll take the time to post on the second vet forum so we can read and learn from this as well! https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/315-laminitis-in-the-horse
I put it on there |
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 Color My World
Posts: 4940
Location: My perfect world bubble | My guy has mild pedal osteitis which presents similar to laiminitis. We manage it with bar shoes (preferrably aluminum) and pour in pads. We check x-rays every 6 months or so to make sure we adjust shoeing if necessary. He goes on the theraplate for 20 mins a day and no turnout if he pulls or is missing a shoe. Stall has mats and shavings and we just really try to eliminate any opportunities for bruising. We also limit riding on hard ground and for my guy (an eventer) we limit jumping to once or twice a week. Summers are the worst for us because of the hard ground. Good luck! |
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Laminitis