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Drug testing . . . What do yall think
oija
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2015-08-27 8:42 PM
Subject: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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http://allaboutcutting.net/?p=7313
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arion
Reg. Mar 2015
Posted 2015-08-27 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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Exactly what the equine industry needs.

Fed involvement.

Want something royally forked up?


Give it to the Gov.
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komet.
Reg. Jun 2012
Posted 2015-08-27 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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I believe cutting is the toughest job a horse has to do. Event and track horses are pampered compared to a working cow-horse.
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gypsykalgirl
Reg. Dec 2014
Posted 2015-08-27 10:20 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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I don't like it. Those reiners and cow horses go through enough terrible stuff to get to the point of being shown. They need all the help they can get in the pharmaceutical department. Ever wonder why you don't see many of them shown in their teens? They are already broken down past the point of return. Edited to add. Do we really want non-horse people policing us? They have no idea what goes on with those horses.

Edited by gypsykalgirl 2015-08-27 10:23 PM
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Swannranch
Reg. Sep 2005
Posted 2015-08-27 10:25 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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 I have posted before, In dont like them. I think the few I have looked at are too strict. I dont like the federal government stepping between me and my doctor. I feel organizations are ste0ping between horse owners and their Vets. Yes, there are crooked peo0le and crooked vets, but no matter what people will cheat. Punishing a horse that needs a little banamine is cruel.
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ozcancrasher13
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2015-08-28 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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They are cutting their own throats.  I read an article where the association was leaning toward getting rid of the drug testing because entries were way down in the older horse classes.  Those horses can't compete without some help from bute/banamine/previcox, whatever.  I can't find the article or I would post it.   
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barrelracr131
Reg. Aug 2011
Posted 2015-08-28 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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ozcancrasher13 - 2015-08-28 8:19 AM They are cutting their own throats.  I read an article where the association was leaning toward getting rid of the drug testing because entries were way down in the older horse classes.  Those horses can't compete without some help from bute/banamine/previcox, whatever.  I can't find the article or I would post it.   

With the AQHA rules, you can give legal meds so many hours out. Do the cutting horses have different rules? 
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3canstorun
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2015-08-28 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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The NCHA already has a drug policy in place.  Has for a couple of years.  Nothing new.  All Gloria did was write about what happend in PA. 

And, no, as said above - we don't want the government involved in the horse business.  Or any business for that matter. 

And, to the above poster that said no cutters show into their teens - you are very wrong.  Lots of them do.  You might not see a lot of the futurity/derby winners show because they retire them to stud/broodmare status, but a good older cutter is worth it's weight in gold.   


Edited by 3canstorun 2015-08-28 8:48 AM
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ozcancrasher13
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2015-08-28 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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barrelracr131 - 2015-08-28 8:20 AM
ozcancrasher13 - 2015-08-28 8:19 AM They are cutting their own throats.  I read an article where the association was leaning toward getting rid of the drug testing because entries were way down in the older horse classes.  Those horses can't compete without some help from bute/banamine/previcox, whatever.  I can't find the article or I would post it.   
With the AQHA rules, you can give legal meds so many hours out. Do the cutting horses have different rules? 
Yes, but you can't use more than one.  Many vets advise to use both bute and banamine together.  That is illegal no matter how far out.  I wish I could find the article!  It might have been for the association but in another country????  It discussed a change to the drug policy that with proper documentation from your vet, you could follow their prescribed treatment, even if it was not allowed by the drug policy.  You still couldn't use illegal drugs just because you had your vet say it was ok:)

Edited:  It is for NCHA in Austrailia.

 
Drug Rule Amendments

Veterinary Declarations must be made on official formsclick here.


Amendments to NCHA Drug Rules - How Do They Affect Members?
 
NCHA Drug Policy
·          All horses winning Aged events managed by NCHA will be drug tested.
·          At other shows holding more than one Aged event, at least one horse from any Aged event will be tested.
·          All testing will be by blood sample with the blood testing providing a determination of drug levels i.e. not a screening test.
·          A registered laboratory will perform the test
·          A veterinarian must gazette all drugs prescribed and administered to a horse up to 10 days before competition. This information must include a statement that the horse is fit for competition, the reason a drug has been given, the drugs used, dose & time of last dose administration. All of this is MANDATORY.
·          Any horse found to have a swab in the absence of a veterinary certificate will be referred to the NCHA Drug Committee.
·          The NCHA Drug Committee will determine whether an offence has been committed and what penalty shall be imposed.
 
What does this mean to you –
1         There is no limitation on medication if all treatments are gazetted and appropriate veterinary documentation is supplied to the NCHA prior to competition.  
2         Any dispute or concerns about the ability of a horse, so certified, to enter for competition would require a second veterinary opinion. 
3         The intent of the current drug rules is to allow for treatment of minor ailments, with declaration, but not to permit the indiscriminate use of potent medications for pain masking or performance enhancement. 
4         If the veterinary declaration does not support the medications found in the horse or if the levels of drug detected grossly exceed prescribed doses, then you are in contravention of the rules.
5         Veterinary examinations with prescription of medication greater than 10 days prior to competition do not constitute a pre-competition assessment of suitability of a horse to compete, especially if a horse has been prescribed anti inflammatory or analgesic medication.
 
What has prompted changes to the drug policy –
A lack of a standard declaration form has meant that in some instances there has not been an appreciation of the detail required when gazetting treatment of a competitor horse.
 
Similarly, treatment has been often notified but no declaration as to the horse’s fitness to compete been made as per requirements.
 
The situation has arisen where medication has been prescribed and declared but found to be in excess of prescribed dose. In some instances this might be attributed to a perception that if a horse has been treated for a particular problem and declared suitable for competition , then the horse has the right to enter the competition with active levels of any medication prescribed at the initial examination , even though that examination may have been several days prior to the event.
 
There have been occasions when medications of inappropriate potency have been prescribed
 
A recognition of animal welfare concerns with regard to the administration of powerful analgesics and also with regard to overexercising of horses pre-competition.
 
What are the changes to NCHA drug policy -
Consideration has been given to the need to control substance abuse without compromising the ability for a trainer to present a horse for competition that has required some medical attention leading up to the event. In arriving at a position that supports this premise it is obvious that a “no drugs” policy as per Rules of Racing for thoroughbreds and standard breeds is inappropriate. Therefore gazetting of all medication usage is designed to allow for appropriate medication.
 
In order to assist owners and trainers the Drug Committee has compiled a list of “approved medications” which may be suitable by a veterinarian for treatment of a horse prior to competition. In formulating this list consideration has been given to potency of drugs, various conditions which may warrant treatment, efficacy of medications for specific conditions.
 
In advertising an “approved drugs list” it is implicit that all pre-competition use of any of these drugs is only on the basis of approval and declaration by a veterinarian and that this declaration is made on an approved NCHA Veterinary Declaration form . Any departure from this will be considered to be a case of unapproved medication and a direct contravention of the rules.
 
There are numerous medications which are not on the “approved medications” list that may be prescribed by a veterinarian. All drug usage must be declared. It will be at the discretion of the NCHA Drug Committee whether a horse so declared may be entered for competition. This does not imply that all horses treated with drugs only from the “approved list” and so declared will automatically have right of entry to competition. Any horse under medical treatment prior to competition may be refused entry into competition on NCHA veterinary advice.
  
NCHA APPROVED MEDICATIONS
  
·          ANTIBIOTICS
no restrictions
 
·          ANTIINFLAMMATORIES
Phenylbutazone
Ketoprofen
Meclofenamic Acid
Hyaluronic Acid
Pentosan Polysulphate
Carprofen
Copper Indomethacin
DMSO [dimethyl sulfoxide]
 
·          CORTISONES
Triamcinolone
Methyl prednisolone
Prednisolone
Dexamethasone
Flumethasone
 
·          HORMONES
Oral Progestins
Depot Progesterone
 
·          SEDATIVES
Acepromazine
Reserpine
 
·          NON-SPECIFIC
Ranitidine
Clenbuterol
 
 
How do the new rules then affect you –
 
1.        You MUST not enter a horse for competition without an NCHA Veterinary Declaration if the horse has been under treatment for a medical condition within 10 days of competition. 
2.       You should advise your vet of the list of approved medications BEFORE any treatment is undertaken. Any departure from this list may seriously compromise your horse’s clearance to compete. This does not prevent your vet from prescribing any medication deemed necessary to treat a particular condition. However, for minor ailments, you should adhere to the approved list of medications. 
3.        You must understand that any departure from declared drug usage by dose, time of administration, drug used invalidates your declaration and a positive swab revealing this occurrence will be treated in the same manner as illicit drug administration. 
4.      Whereas current drug rules have a clause allowing for a positive swab to be assessed in light of the detected level in relation to effect on performance, this opportunity for interpretation is unlikely to prevail for drug residues detected that are not on the approved drug list.
 5.       Any positive swab for drugs detected in an undeclared situation will be dealt with by the NCHA Drug Committee as a matter of urgency. 
6.        On any given day of competition the dosage of a drug used and declared should not exceed recommended drug dosage. These levels should correlate with laboratory detection levels.


Edited by ozcancrasher13 2015-08-28 9:17 AM
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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2015-08-28 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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Haven't read the article, but honestly drug testing doesn't bother me.

You know the rules before entering, if there is drug testing you either enter and not give drugs, or you don't.

To have a non horse entity govern it, it may not be a bad thing, IF, there is not an alternative agenda (PETA)

Problem with vets, as most are corrupt, and are working for the person instead of for the well being of the horse.

People want the cheapest way to get the most out of their horse disregarding the long term effects on the horse.

Or people are ignorant and are not asking about the long term effects, or consequences of the meds

Or people only care about the money and think horses are disposable, and will delibertly kill or permanently injure to collect insurance money

And not all vets are created the same, some don't have the knowledge or experience to treat equine athletes.
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arion
Reg. Mar 2015
Posted 2015-08-28 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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cheryl makofka - 2015-08-28 11:11 AM

Haven't read the article, but honestly drug testing doesn't bother me.

You know the rules before entering, if there is drug testing you either enter and not give drugs, or you don't.

To have a non horse entity govern it, it may not be a bad thing, IF, there is not an alternative agenda (PETA)

Problem with vets, as most are corrupt, and are working for the person instead of for the well being of the horse.

People want the cheapest way to get the most out of their horse disregarding the long term effects on the horse.

Or people are ignorant and are not asking about the long term effects, or consequences of the meds

Or people only care about the money and think horses are disposable, and will delibertly kill or permanently injure to collect insurance money

And not all vets are created the same, some don't have the knowledge or experience to treat equine athletes.

your liberal is showing.

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mollibtexan
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2015-08-28 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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All I'm gonna say is what's more humane 1cc of ace in the mouth an hour out or loping the horse for 5 hours? Enough said!
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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2015-08-29 2:13 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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mollibtexan - 2015-08-28 5:58 PM

All I'm gonna say is what's more humane 1cc of ace in the mouth an hour out or loping the horse for 5 hours? Enough said!

Or better yet,

Train the horse

Or give it a job it can handle
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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2015-08-29 2:14 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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arion - 2015-08-28 11:15 AM

cheryl makofka - 2015-08-28 11:11 AM

Haven't read the article, but honestly drug testing doesn't bother me.

You know the rules before entering, if there is drug testing you either enter and not give drugs, or you don't.

To have a non horse entity govern it, it may not be a bad thing, IF, there is not an alternative agenda (PETA)

Problem with vets, as most are corrupt, and are working for the person instead of for the well being of the horse.

People want the cheapest way to get the most out of their horse disregarding the long term effects on the horse.

Or people are ignorant and are not asking about the long term effects, or consequences of the meds

Or people only care about the money and think horses are disposable, and will delibertly kill or permanently injure to collect insurance money

And not all vets are created the same, some don't have the knowledge or experience to treat equine athletes.

your liberal is showing.


Nope not liberal

Just a realist
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mollibtexan
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2015-08-29 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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cheryl makofka - 2015-08-29 2:13 AM

mollibtexan - 2015-08-28 5:58 PM

All I'm gonna say is what's more humane 1cc of ace in the mouth an hour out or loping the horse for 5 hours? Enough said!

Or better yet,

Train the horse

Or give it a job it can handle

The only people who talk like this are people who haven't trained many colts.
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cheryl makofka
Reg. Jan 2011
Posted 2015-08-29 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think


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mollibtexan - 2015-08-29 11:51 AM

cheryl makofka - 2015-08-29 2:13 AM

mollibtexan - 2015-08-28 5:58 PM

All I'm gonna say is what's more humane 1cc of ace in the mouth an hour out or loping the horse for 5 hours? Enough said!

Or better yet,

Train the horse

Or give it a job it can handle

The only people who talk like this are people who haven't trained many colts.

I do admit, I don't train many, I don't do it for a job,

But I stand behind my comment

Every drug we administer to a horse can have an adverse side effect, as for instance, ace can cause penile disfunction.

My vet has tried very hard to educate me on thinking about the well being of my horses.

Not all horses should be barrel horses, and not all barrel horses are mature enough to handle futurities.

Instead of bandaiding the problem, I believe diagnosing and fixing the problem.
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soonergirl98
Reg. Oct 2009
Posted 2015-08-30 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Drug testing . . . What do yall think



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Its never a good idea for "Big Brother"/feds to get involved.....
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