|
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
 
Location: Texas | I have a few quesions I want opinions on:
** What's your favorite joint supplement for a 10 year old gelding who is used light to moderately running barrels. I've been using Platinum CJ, but it's expensive. Is it worth the price for the resuls? Is there something better.
**He came from a dry climate when I got him a few months ago and now is in a very humid climate (east TX). He has areas that he is losing hair, small spots on his back, chest, nothing big and he doesn't act like they itch. He has been sweaty of course because it's been so hot and humid so wondering if his skin is just irritated or if it's some sort of allergy. He has shade and plenty of fresh cool water, but his coat is sort of dull, and then now he has these spots where his hair is gone.
**My niece's horse has been having trouble with tying up and/or colic with the possibility of ulcers. So first question, best ulcer supplement, and second has anyone had luck with a specific diet to help prevent tying up?
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| I'm interested too. I have a horse tying up. What has helped and what do we need to avoid? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| We keep all our horses in heavy training on previcox for joints, but that's all I can help you with. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 5293
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-02 11:56 AM
We keep all our horses in heavy training on previcox for joints, but that's all I can help you with.
Previcox is a pain reliever and anti inflammatory. I would rather treat a horse to prevent the damage in the first place than to just use a pain killer to mask the pain. Previcox only relieves pain and inflammation, doesn't keep the joint from being damaged. Adequan or Pentosan would probably keep you from needing the previcox in the first place. I do use it, but only when I run with a horse that already has arthritis issues. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3514
| I WOULD TRY THE CUR OST SUPPLEMENTS. PROBABLY WOULD START WITH THE TOTAL SUPPORT EQ. iT WILL HELP THE ULCERS,TYING UP AND ALLERGIES. WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING? |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Skin irritation and joint pain - Flax and joint injections
Tying up - Do a muscle biopsy. If clean use DMG |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | readytorodeo - 2015-09-02 2:43 PM I WOULD TRY THE CUR OST SUPPLEMENTS. PROBABLY WOULD START WITH THE TOTAL SUPPORT EQ. iT WILL HELP THE ULCERS,TYING UP AND ALLERGIES. WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING?
I feed Total Equine and grass and alfalfa to the horse with the skin irriation. I really think it's the humidity and/or something here because he hasn't always had the issue. He isn't hurting per say in his joints, but I just like preventive supplements. I haven't used Platinum CJ long, just wondering if it's worth the cost or if there's another good maintenance formula out there that is just as good but less expensive. I don't mind paying a high price if it's vaiuable, but you know if I can save money even better. The horse that's tying up gets Equine Senior and mostly alfalfa. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | Tdove - 2015-09-02 3:02 PM Skin irritation and joint pain - Flax and joint injections Tying up - Do a muscle biopsy. If clean use DMG
He doesn't have joint pain per say. I'm just wanting a good maintenance formula. I haven't seen outstanding noticeable results with the Platinum but he's pretty young in the grand scheme of things and hasn't had his legs ran off so he doesn't have major issues. He has been injected and we do that not often but as needed. I'll try adding the flax for the the skin irritation. Thanks for your input. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3514
| TXBarrelRacer84 - 2015-09-02 3:22 PM Tdove - 2015-09-02 3:02 PM Skin irritation and joint pain - Flax and joint injections Tying up - Do a muscle biopsy. If clean use DMG He doesn't have joint pain per say. I'm just wanting a good maintenance formula. I haven't seen outstanding noticeable results with the Platinum but he's pretty young in the grand scheme of things and hasn't had his legs ran off so he doesn't have major issues. He has been injected and we do that not often but as needed. I'll try adding the flax for the the skin irritation. Thanks for your input.
I have used Platinum CJ and i think that the Cur Ost is more bang for your buck. The Sr feed is good and I would probably have both of them on it. You might cut back on the Alfalfa and feed some good grass hay with it. One flake of each. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Animal Element Foundation Detox is great for Joints, Topline, Coat, and Hooves! It is very affordable! Top quality human grade ingredients.
www.AnimalElement.com
Use code BHW10 for 10% off
and choose Barrel Horse World for your dealer. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1611
| Omega 3s....Flax seed, cocoa soy oil, coconut oil, and rice bran.....supplement with your choice and it'll hit two of what you mentioned |
|
| |
|
  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | THE has Muscle Mass (starting price for 80 doses is $65) or Performance Formula ($55) and add $5 per special blend up to 4. Thier blends do include tying up, hair & coat, allergies, as well as a bunch of others-hoof, calming, moody mare, senior, joint. They also have a money back guarantee. California Chrome as well as American Pharoah are on THE supplements. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | astreakinchic - 2015-09-03 9:11 AM
Omega 3s....Flax seed, cocoa soy oil, coconut oil, and rice bran.....supplement with your choice and it'll hit two of what you mentioned
Of these three, only Flax has a higher Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio. If you are adding these and trying to reduce inflammation, then you must add product with higher Omega 3s to reduce overall ratio. Here is the info Omega 6 to 3:
Flax - 0.3:1
Soy - 7:1
Rice B - 19:1
Coconut - Not a significant source of either |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | For horses that have issues with tying up...a low starch, high fat diet is the way to go. Stay away from sugary hay (alfalfa), and sugary grain. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-03 10:16 AM
For horses that have issues with tying up...a low starch, high fat diet is the way to go. Stay away from sugary hay (alfalfa), and sugary grain.
Actually, Alfalfa is one of the lowest starch hays and feeds. Here is a chart showing average NSC % in various feed sources. Note that Rice Bran is higher in starch than alfalfa. Both Rice Bran and Alfalfa are commonly given to horses with PSSM and RER. Even then, not all horses that tie up or have tied up benefit from a severely low starch diet.
Oat Hay......................22.1%
Barley Hay................. 20.4%
Alfalfa Hay................. 11.3%
Bermudagrass Hay.......13.6%
Grass Hay.................. 13.8%
Alfalfa Pellets.................9.3%
Alfalfa Cubes................10.2%
Grass Pasture...............12.1%
Rice Bran.................... 21.2%
Oats............................54.1%
Corn............................73.3%
Barley..........................61.7%
Beet Pulp......................12.3%
Wheat Bran.................. 31.1%
Soybean Hulls................. 6.3%
Wheat Middlings.............32.0%
Soybean Meal ................16.2%
*Values are from Equi-Analytical Laboratories, Ithaca, NY, reported on dry matter basis. - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/articles/horsenutrition-carbohydrate...
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-03 10:59 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | I would give him more electrolytes for the tying up, it is like a muscle cramp.
THE GastroPLUS has done wonders for my horse!! Can not rave enough about this product. Helped my horse with his ulcers and now he is a new horse. I also like how THE customizes formula. Have them do a custom formula and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Also you try their new joint formula, it has comparable levels to Cosequin ASU+ but is more affordable. I have started using it and I am very pleased with the results. It's called JointFLEX. I could feel a difference in 3 days. She was coming out more fluid and not stocking up at night.  |
|
| |
|
 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | readytorodeo - 2015-09-02 2:43 PM I WOULD TRY THE CUR OST SUPPLEMENTS. PROBABLY WOULD START WITH THE TOTAL SUPPORT EQ. iT WILL HELP THE ULCERS,TYING UP AND ALLERGIES. WHAT ARE YOU FEEDING?
This ^^^^. Create an account on www.secondvet.com for Dr. Schell and ask him. There are already some very good topics on the forum dealing with these questions you can access and read. "Prevention is worth a pound of cure" and better to handle the inflammation that begins in the gut and then rears it's ugly head through these other inflammatory issues we deal with in our horses. You don't need a joint supplement, and ulcer supplement, a this supplement and a that supplement. You don't need pre or pro-biotics either. All of these have been proven to contribute to the issues we see in the hind gut and contribute to the inflammation issue. I hope you'll check this out, as it's been a life saver for me and my horses! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | On the tie up issue, a mixed hay base that is higher in alfalfa and elimination of excess grain based feed helps on the diet side. Of equal importance is daily exercise. Keeping a horse that ties up in a stall without being worked every day, and I mean every day, will make management of the issue almost impossible no mater what else you do. The feed through flex products are only effective in providing a better environment within the joint by supporting synovial fluid production and quality. Other structural issues are not addressed with most feed through joint health products. But if synovial fluid is the issue you are trying to address, then Platinum CJ is a good product. Adding Omega 3 supplements to a forage based diet that uses little grain will not make much difference as there would already be plenty of Omega 3 present in relation to the Omega 6 in that diet. However, if your horse is eating a straight grass diet and more than 5 or more pounds per day of grain based concentrate, then adding Omega 3 support may be warranted, as the entire diet would likely have more 6 than 3 which is not ideal. For me however, this falls into my "feed a horse into trouble, and then try to supplement them out of it" category. If your friend would like to discuss management of her horse that ties up, I would be happy to talk to her. Just PM me her contact info. |
|
| |
|
 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | TXBarrelRacer84 - 2015-09-02 10:20 AM I have a few quesions I want opinions on:
** What's your favorite joint supplement for a 10 year old gelding who is used light to moderately running barrels. I've been using Platinum CJ, but it's expensive. Is it worth the price for the resuls? Is there something better.
**He came from a dry climate when I got him a few months ago and now is in a very humid climate (east TX). He has areas that he is losing hair, small spots on his back, chest, nothing big and he doesn't act like they itch. He has been sweaty of course because it's been so hot and humid so wondering if his skin is just irritated or if it's some sort of allergy. He has shade and plenty of fresh cool water, but his coat is sort of dull, and then now he has these spots where his hair is gone.
**My niece's horse has been having trouble with tying up and/or colic with the possibility of ulcers. So first question, best ulcer supplement, and second has anyone had luck with a specific diet to help prevent tying up?
Mine started as exactly that. The only thing that helped was getting him out of the heat. A nice shady barn and a fan during the day. I have been lax since it cooled off slightly the past couple weeks. But the temps have picked back up and I noticed today the bumps are back. Back in the barn it is!! I'm sure it's an allergy, but he got sunburnt where his hair fell out. And we are still regrowing all the hair in his booty. It was a rough summer. Mine has lived in the south for 13 years, but had never lived outside 24/7 until this spring. The heat just drags him down. He loses weight, he feels bad. Whatever it is, shade, a fan, and a full hay bag worked better than all the other stuff I tried. I did put him on Animal Element Detox about 2-3 weeks ago ms have seen a huge difference in his coat. It was already getting better, but his shine is back now. |
|
| |
|
 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Platinum Cj is an awesome product as it has everything so to speak. Red Cell is not so expensive if you want to switch. As for tying up/ colic ..for both of these the horse needs" WATER" to help keep hydrated beet pulp is wonderful. Electrolytes and salt will make a horse want to drink more. Vitamin E is a must for muscles and burned off quickly. When the horse is worked be sure to cool off at a walk and body temperature is down. do not work and left to stand to cool out . |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | The tying up worries me and it may help to get the horse assessed at least for the PSSM problem using the hair samples sent to Dr. Valberg U of Minn Vet School.
Aside from the great advice alreday offered make sure the diet is well supplied with not just vitamin E but also Selenium. You can ask around about the soils in your area. If they are low in selenium the forages will be low. Sometimes a horse that is an easy keeper is not fed recommended levels of a performance horse feed because you feel the calories are excessive. In that case ask you feed supplier if they have a supplement that supplies all the vitamins, minerals and protein but not much energy and dial in the energy you need.
If the horse is hyper add veg oil for energy to relax the horse. You can feed 1-2 cups veg oil each day and that is an energy source that lowers blood sugar and may help keep him from losing his noodle yet gives him plenty of power.
You can also consider adding about 20 grams of magnesium oxide each day as a calming agent. We just had research presented at equine science society showing it reduces fear response in horse by about 1/3 rd in controlled studies. We usually used mag ox and 1 stp a day biochromium for race horses that tie up and we think it helps potentiate the action of insulin keeping blood glucos elevels down, ( ayeb why it calms horses??). Anyways a high fat and fiber diet may help.
Make sure you feed some flax at a cup a day or omega three fattya acid supplement especialy for skin issues and anti inflammatory effects and use a hoof supplement if you have skin issues. The hoof is just and extension of the hair/skin and I believe it will help a skin issue.
Make sure lots of vitamin E at minimum 1000 iu/day possibly 2000 from natural sources and selenium at about 2-3 mg per day total added ( subject to soil etc and natural forages contact your county ag agent).
Balance the rest with a supplement or proper amount of performance horse feed. Feed companies have nutrition people you can talk to.
Add some alflafa as a natural buffer to control ulcers and reduce stress as well. Maybe at least 5 lbs per day.
Cheers.
Coastal Rider. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Tdove - 2015-09-03 10:58 AM
hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-03 10:16 AM
For horses that have issues with tying up...a low starch, high fat diet is the way to go. Stay away from sugary hay (alfalfa), and sugary grain.
Actually, Alfalfa is one of the lowest starch hays and feeds. Here is a chart showing average NSC % in various feed sources. Note that Rice Bran is higher in starch than alfalfa. Both Rice Bran and Alfalfa are commonly given to horses with PSSM and RER. Even then, not all horses that tie up or have tied up benefit from a severely low starch diet.
Oat Hay......................22.1%
Barley Hay................. 20.4%
Alfalfa Hay................. 11.3%
Bermudagrass Hay.......13.6%
Grass Hay.................. 13.8%
Alfalfa Pellets.................9.3%
Alfalfa Cubes................10.2%
Grass Pasture...............12.1%
Rice Bran.................... 21.2%
Oats............................54.1%
Corn............................73.3%
Barley..........................61.7%
Beet Pulp......................12.3%
Wheat Bran.................. 31.1%
Soybean Hulls................. 6.3%
Wheat Middlings.............32.0%
Soybean Meal ................16.2%
*Values are from Equi-Analytical Laboratories, Ithaca, NY, reported on dry matter basis. - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/articles/horsenutrition-carbohydrate...
I would be interested in seeing what winwillows opinion is on the analysis
I wonder what cutting of alfalfa, as all the nutritionists vets I speak to say alfalfa has more NSC then grass hay. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | It was a multiyear study with various sources and samples tested. Alfalfa is known to have a low NSC content. In this study the ranges were:
Alfalfa................8.8-13.9
Bermuda............9.4-17.7
Grass Hay..........9.2-18.4
Alfalfa is routinely recommended as part of the equine diet for tying up horses. Dr. Valberg (probably the foremost expert on tying up) has it in several feeding rations for PSSM horses. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | The NSC levels on the above chart are pretty accurate. Contrary to what a lot of people think, Alfalfa is not a high NSC roughage. I use alfalfa in PSSM or ERM horses whenever I can. When used in combination with a grass hay, it lowers total NSC, slows the hind gut for better digestion of the grass hay portion of the diet which allows a reduction or elimination of grain based feeds and also provides a calcium source that may help with ulcers. When Stephanie Valberg was doing her amazing study, my office helped with the diets. Before that I had always used a straight grass hay diet for this issue. Dr. Valberg's work showed that this was not the answer. Today, we feed a lot of PSSM or suspected PSSM horses with very good result. There is much more to it than just diet. But, when managed properly overall, they can have a very productive performance life. I don't comment on specific formulations marketed by other manufacturers. In general, Triple Crown has a long history of making nice products.
Edited by winwillows 2015-09-08 4:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
 The Crazy Mom
Posts: 2132
Location: Ainsworth, NE | Compare exceed 6way to platinum CJ:
http://www.medvetpharm.com/Images/2015%20exceed.pdf
that is why I switched to exceed and became a dealer because I put all my horses on it!!!! |
|
| |
Joint Supplement/Skin Condition/Tying Up