moapajetrider - 2015-09-20 6:28 PM

 Future Fortunes, triplecrown, vgbra, red desert classic, PBRIP

Have you considered looking into a double registered AQHA/ APHA running bred colt? You have to look but if you were patient you could find a OTT with some chrome that could swing both ways. So you wouldnt loose out on being AQHA. You have to loose the HZ part probably but if you kept an eye out and developed slowly you could net you some HZ mares that would open the pool even farther. Just a thought. I think though we havent seen your colt its going to be tough. You ve got a lot to compete against in CA. I am a paint person to but like you said its a niche market and there are many who wont give APHA papers a second glance.
 

Jenbabe - 2015-09-21 7:10 AM

As a mare owner, I look at resale value of the foal. And honestly, I just haven't seen decent enough resale on Paints to justify breeding to one. I also think that even in riding horses the value isn't there, so will pass over them when shopping for prospects. I'm not saying they can't compete or aren't nice, but from a business standpoint I'm better off to focus on QHs in our program.

As far as the bloodlines go that you mentioned, those stallions are in so many pedigrees because they are older lines. They are a dime a dozen. I would want to know who his sire and dam are and what they've done.

Standing a stallion is an uphill battle, and he better be the complete package or you're wasting your time. Do your research on foal prices/values, get good figures on what it will cost in mare care for a year and to get that foal raised to weaning. And you better figure the cost of raising/starting one in case you are unable to sell prior to that. Look at the cost of nice broodmares, not just mediocre ones. I would want to know all of these figures and make sure that I can cover my expenses. It's going to cost a lot of money to get your stud prospect trained, shown, and promoted. And then you're going to have to start proving his offspring.

I wish you the best of luck in your adventure. But remember to look at it from a business standpoint, leave the sentimental out.

NoGutsNoGlory - 2015-09-21 11:12 AM

You mentioned Lazy Susan Ranch and their program, I know the manager well, and they have sought out the BEST paint broodmares and bought the BEST paint studs out there. They want own sons of great QH stallions to stand, not grand get. 

I dont breed paints, but I do have a small herd of 8 QH broodmares and I can say this, I plan on having my own stud eventually, however, it will not be a DTF, FWF or FG son. There are too many of them, the barrel racing world needs good outcross stallions. So that everyone can breed their DTF, FWF, and FG daughters to them. I had the perfect outcross stud colt and he died at the colt starters this past summer. I have a stud colt by A Regal Choice out of a Shawne Bug daughter, that if he ends up staying, I might keep him a stud to see what he does, I also have a Shawne Bug daughter in foal to Stoli, same thing goes for that baby if its a boy. My point is, look at Lazy Susan and see that their stallions are all by great QH studs. I feel to be marketbale in the paint industry, you need an exceptional stud, on paper and in person.
 

LoneStar - 2015-09-21 4:15 PM

I think you have gotten some good advise, and not so good advice.   
I personally breed paints..  and have some really nice ones!      My babies sell every year and sell for GOOD money each year.     It really depends on the quality of mares you have.      Paints have that stigma that they arents quite as good as AQHA because so many people breed just for color.    All of my horses have color AND bloodlines.       APHA is the second largest breed association in the US,   That is definately not because there is not a market for paints...    

Myself and a few other breeders have really made headway in the performance paint breeding.   Not only that, we have worked with APHA to help develop programs like PBRIP that will bring additional value to the horses

I dont feel that it is a bad investment, but again thats me.   I know that my program can compete with all of the paint breeders,  and I dont spend millions in advertising each year just to get swallowed up like I see happen with many of the small QH breeders
 

oija - 2015-09-21 7:52 AM

Honestly, you have gotten GOOD advice on here. It may not be what you WANT to hear, but is probably what you NEED to hear. The markets for paints is small, very small. The market for paint barrel horses is even smaller. Whether or not you agree with BHWUSA (and usually I'm inclined to at least question him), I have to side with him on this matter. Whether you buy that this is because of the new 'color' rules as he says or just because there was never much of a market doesn't matter. There just isn't much of a market. Your top race bred paints are not getting any kind of solid business because there is no market. Many of them are actually AQHA that ended up as splash paints. A good example is Awesome Chrome, an own son of First Down Dash and full brother to Okey Dokey Dale. He has a winning record as a performer AND a sire, both of race horses AND barrel horses, and they still don't fill his book. If a proven own son of First Down Dash can't stay busy, a local grandson of a few well known names is going to struggle even more. If they paint out, you will struggle to get $2000-$3000 for your foals (and if they don't paint out $1000-$2000 is more like it) and even with a $500-750 breeding fee will breed very few mares a year. If you do nothing but keep them on pasture and pasture breed, you'll save a bit on vet but your profit margin will still be very small. If you are content with this, breed on.

I am trying to get my own stud prospect bred too. But he will be an own son of DTF out of my own daughter of Shawne Bug with a very strong bottom side (she's carrying him now and yes, I've had it sexed). I've already got the three siblings before him lined up to be proven (either because I'm proving them or getting them into a home that is committed to proving them). I saw in a post on facebook that there are 67 registered stallion sons of DTF. That is a TON of competition. And there are a number of great ones like Eddie Stinson, Streaking ta Fame, and FM Radio plus up and comers like Feel the Sting to compete with. Most people would think I was mad to even consider it. I do have a very specific plan but this stud colt is going to have to EARN the right to be a stallion and not just by doing some stuff locally. And this is an AQHA stud prospect I'm thinking about who is an OWN SON of the top barrel sire and out of an OWN DAUGHTER of one of the most proven broodmare lines out there with a very strong bottom side on the dam and some very nice older brothers and sisters showing promise. And if he turns into a nice 1D horse and doesn't do any more, he'll probably be a very nice gelding sitting in the corner of my barn because 1D sons of DTF are a dime a dozen. Mine HAS to stand out. And I have a Ph.D. and very solid job and my husband has a law degree. We are both professionals with solid incomes to back up these dreams. It takes a lot of time and money to prove an excellent prospect. We don't plan on seeing ANY breeding money from him until he is likely 6-7 and then only a bit. You are talking about doing less to prove yours with only a decent prospect and having even less market. Seriously, I think a paint stud WOULD HAVE to make the NFR or do something similar for people to take much notice and you've already denied you have those nation wide goals. Honestly, if you are not going to aim that high and do it with the right level of prospect, I think you are wasting your time.

And I am NOT prejudiced against paints. I grew up riding them and actually bred a nice mare to Awesome Chrome. A nice horse is a nice horse like a previous poster said. I think they have every bit as much promise to win as quarter horses in the right hands and given the right opportunities. I will buy a nice one for myself in a heartbeat, but I won't breed them. It's just not the best business decision.

All that being said, if you forge on ahead and prove us all wrong, because weirder things have happened. Do come back and tell us "I told you so" and we will all cheer you on. Just be very very careful before you do, absolutely EYES WIDE WIDE OPEN not just open.

LoneStar - 2015-09-21 5:15 PM

I think you have gotten some good advice, and not so good advice.   
I personally breed paints..  and have some really nice ones!      My babies sell every year and sell for good money each year.     It really depends on the quality of mares you have.      Paints have that stigma that they arents quite as good as AQHA because so many people breed just for color.    All of my horses have color AND bloodlines.       APHA is the second largest breed association in the US,   That is definately not because there is not a market for paints...    

Myself and a few other breeders have really made headway in the performance paint breeding.   Not only that, we have worked with APHA to help develop programs like PBRIP that will bring additional value to the horses

I dont feel that it is a bad investment, but again thats me.   I know that my program can compete with all of the paint breeders,  and I dont spend millions in advertising each year just to get swallowed up like I see happen with many of the small QH breeders
 

rachellyn80 - 2015-09-21 1:05 PM All things being equal paint will almost always bring less than a quarter horse.  Raising little horse babies based on colors and pedigree will ultimately guarantee that you'll be producing sale barn inventory.

crapshooter - 2015-09-21 12:25 PM  That's not very likely (that it won't have enough white to be registerable).  However the homozygous paints are usually lesser quality than non homozygous because too much emphasis has been placed on color rather than raising quality horses.  Plus both the sire and dam have to be tobiano which are IN GENERAL lower quality animals.  Not saying there aren't some nice tobianos but when you start selecting for attributes like color you can't select by the attributes that the most important ie conformation, athletic ability, pedigree and brains.