Herbie - 2015-09-22 6:44 AM

I do, whole oat, but only feed them as a medium to mix my Cur-OST in.  I rely on my hay (alfalfa) for the nutritional value.  I stepped away from processed feeds back in May and will never look back! 

FLITASTIC - 2015-09-22 10:17 AM


I made the switch with Herbie and my horses have never looked, felt, or ran better. If you feed a quality FORAGE with your oats you do not need to add any vitamins, minerals, balancers. etc. Horses should get all they need from their forage.

cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-09-22 7:02 AM

I like oats because they are very digestible, unlike corn and barley. My horses get 2lbs whole oats a day with 2lbs Progressive Nutrition grass balancer, .5lbs renew gold, grass hay, alfalfa, and SmartPaks. 

FLITASTIC - 2015-09-22 10:24 AM 5 pounds of Renew Gold??? THats about 4x regular suggested feeding. I would be looking at what the hind gut is doing.

FLITASTIC - 2015-09-22 10:17 AM


I made the switch with Herbie and my horses have never looked, felt, or ran better. If you feed a quality FORAGE with your oats you do not need to add any vitamins, minerals, balancers. etc. Horses should get all they need from their forage. Assuming their hind gut is healthy and working good.

BS Hauler - 2015-09-22 8:53 AM

I feed whole oats with just a little bit of cracked corn.  1,200 # oats and 300 # cracked corn then I put in all my minerals, salts, proteins, soy oils and vitamins in. They get 2.5# per feeding twice a day. They are on pasture that is half grass and half alfalfa 24/7.  I have tried the processed feed and here in the winter time they just don't get enough calories to keep their weight on. They are waiting at the bunk to get fed. Its good training as soon as I pull up with the pickup they come running. It works for me. My horses are outside with no building just trees 24/7. I never had a sick horse yet.
 

BS Hauler - 2015-09-22 10:53 AM I feed whole oats with just a little bit of cracked corn.  1,200 # oats and 300 # cracked corn then I put in all my minerals, salts, proteins, soy oils and vitamins in. They get 2.5# per feeding twice a day. They are on pasture that is half grass and half alfalfa 24/7.  I have tried the processed feed and here in the winter time they just don't get enough calories to keep their weight on. They are waiting at the bunk to get fed. Its good training as soon as I pull up with the pickup they come running. It works for me. My horses are outside with no building just trees 24/7. I never had a sick horse yet.

 

FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-22 8:45 AM Anytime you feed oats, you need a grain balancer in it as well. Oats do not have any kind of anything for them. They are just empty calories. We feed it as a filler to all of ours, along with Essential K/Alfalfa pellet 50/50 mix and whatever other supplements the particular horse is on. We feed whole oats usually, but will get the rolled oats if the whole are sold out. There isn't truely a difference in what it does for the horse, they are just fillers.

FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-22 9:45 AM Anytime you feed oats, you need a grain balancer in it as well. Oats do not have any kind of anything for them. They are just empty calories. We feed it as a filler to all of ours, along with Essential K/Alfalfa pellet 50/50 mix and whatever other supplements the particular horse is on. We feed whole oats usually, but will get the rolled oats if the whole are sold out. There isn't truely a difference in what it does for the horse, they are just fillers.

cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-09-22 7:02 AM I like oats because they are very digestible, unlike corn and barley. My horses get 2lbs whole oats a day with 2lbs Progressive Nutrition grass balancer, .5lbs renew gold, grass hay, alfalfa, and SmartPaks. 

OregonBR - 2015-09-22 10:28 AM As long as the corn and barley are rolled, they are more digestible than oats.  They are also more dense (more energy per # than oats) and must be fed in moderation.  In order of calorie and energy content, corn comes before barley and oats are the least of the major grains.  Oats have more fiber and are least likely to cause digestive problems in horses.  They have been a staple of the horse industry for many years.  But when fed in large meals, all cerial grains cause digestive upset and ulcers.  



http://animalscience.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2012/04/n...

OregonBR - 2015-09-22 1:32 PM

Grains have up to 12% protein. Most are between 10-12%. But they are very low in calcium and high in phosphorus.  So if you feed grass hay and grain, you will need something (ration balancer or alfalfa) to bring the calcium level up.   

OregonBR - 2015-09-22 12:33 PM


 

Tdove - 2015-09-22 2:09 PM


Processing corn and barley do not make them more digestible than oats. One of the issues around corn, and barley to some extent, is that type of carbohydrates they posses are not as easily digested. That is why oats have a tendency and reputation of making horses hot. The starch is so easily digested that it gets into the bloodstream very quickly. This also makes oats safer because there is less risk and chance of the starch making it to the hindgut.

The reason to crack corn is because it has a hard kernel that makes it less digestible. This increases the digestibility of the corn, but does not change the digestibility of the starch it contains.

Barley must be processed due to the hardness of the outer hull. Barley has a very strong following from those that feed it. We are currently looking more into barley and the research for barley as a horse feed.

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-22 10:27 AM Read it again...... (.5lb) which is half a pound

Tdove - 2015-09-22 2:09 PM Processing corn and barley do not make them more digestible than oats. One of the issues around corn, and barley to some extent, is that type of carbohydrates they posses are not as easily digested. That is why oats have a tendency and reputation of making horses hot. The starch is so easily digested that it gets into the bloodstream very quickly. This also makes oats safer because there is less risk and chance of the starch making it to the hindgut. The reason to crack corn is because it has a hard kernel that makes it less digestible. This increases the digestibility of the corn, but does not change the digestibility of the starch it contains. Barley must be processed due to the hardness of the outer hull. Barley has a very strong following from those that feed it. We are currently looking more into barley and the research for barley as a horse feed.

Tdove - 2015-09-22 10:36 AM We utilize whole oats in our Omnis Complete. I like oats, but not all oats are created equal. The heavier the oat the better. We use 38-40lb oats in our products. I would advise on buying a quality whole oat. I have used and think that Woody's line of oats are quality. Whole oats have the most nutrition. Rolled or crimped oats are not necessary as they provide only a minimum increase in digestibility while having less fat and nutrients, due to oxidation. The increase in energy is offset by a higher cost as well.

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-23 10:53 AM How can you tell how "heavy" an oat is? The oats I get from the local feed store are mixed with corn...which I do not like. They do not sell just whole oats without corn. Orschelns sells whole oats in 40lb bags...but not sure how to tell how heavy an oat is? 

3canstorun - 2015-09-23 10:55 AM A standard measurement for oats is 32 lbs per bushel.    That being said - at the beginning of harvest our oats straight out of the bin are usually heavier.  We do throughout the feeding season measure our "can" to make sure we are still feeding our desired amount per horse. 

Tdove - 2015-09-23 11:11 AM We use local Canadian oats grown in Saskatchewan. They are 38lb oats on average. We feel Canadian oats are some of the best in the world. To the other question, they are not usually marked. The heavier the oat, the more nutrients and energy are in it. Oats are priced based on quality. The cheap TSC type oats are much less cost than #1 oats. It is very similar to hay. The better quality the more nutrients and energy, resulting in overall better value in the long run. Most of the grain mixes use low quality grains. Top quality stuff is not sold to be mixed and molasses added. That is why grain mixes and sweet feeds, many times are actually cheaper than their straight grain top quality counterparts.

3canstorun - 2015-09-23 9:57 AM  

Tdove - 2015-09-22 12:09 PM Processing corn and barley do not make them more digestible than oats. One of the issues around corn, and barley to some extent, is that type of carbohydrates they posses are not as easily digested. That is why oats have a tendency and reputation of making horses hot. The starch is so easily digested that it gets into the bloodstream very quickly. This also makes oats safer because there is less risk and chance of the starch making it to the hindgut. The reason to crack corn is because it has a hard kernel that makes it less digestible. This increases the digestibility of the corn, but does not change the digestibility of the starch it contains. Barley must be processed due to the hardness of the outer hull. Barley has a very strong following from those that feed it. We are currently looking more into barley and the research for barley as a horse feed.

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-23 11:17 AM what are you normally feeding per horse? I feed 2lbs each feeding, but lately it's been 1 feeding per day

hoofs_in_motion - 2015-09-23 9:53 AM How can you tell how "heavy" an oat is? The oats I get from the local feed store are mixed with corn...which I do not like. They do not sell just whole oats without corn. Orschelns sells whole oats in 40lb bags...but not sure how to tell how heavy an oat is? 

quote] I just don't believe that.  Studies?  My experience has been that corn and barley put more weight on an animal than oats if fed by weight equally.   

As far as oats making a horse hot, as oppose to what?  Corn will make them hot as well if fed in equal weight to oats.  

Tdove - 2015-09-23 12:05 PM As far as making horses high. Here is why: http://equusmagazine.com/article/nutrition011903 "However, horses fed oats will have increased blood sugar at about 1.5 - 3 hours after the meal, followed by decreased blood sugar. This effect is similar to that seen in people eating high starch or sugary foods. Some horses are very sensitive to increased blood sugar, and exhibit a "grain-high" attitude, which can interfere with your training and performance schedule." This is why I don't recommend feeding a large amount of oats at one time. Also, in the Omnis formula, since the oats are mixed throughout. They are eaten very slowly, so this blood sugar spike does not occur. This, along with the right amount of oat inclusion, Omnis does not make a horse hot because of this.

fulltiltfilly - 2015-09-23 11:50 AM What is considered a large amount?  

Tdove - 2015-09-23 10:55 AM Here are a couple of articles, explaining my posts about starch digestibility and grain processing: http://www.equinews.com/article/carbohydrate-digestibility-horses http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sour...
I don't have any of them saved, but I've read a LOT of articles/studies about feed and never once have I EVER read that corn or barley were more digestible or a better feed than oats. Especially corn. The general consensus is that it just shouldn't be fed to horses, especially in large amounts.  

Tdove - 2015-09-23 9:05 AM As far as making horses high. Here is why: http://equusmagazine.com/article/nutrition011903 "However, horses fed oats will have increased blood sugar at about 1.5 - 3 hours after the meal, followed by decreased blood sugar. This effect is similar to that seen in people eating high starch or sugary foods. Some horses are very sensitive to increased blood sugar, and exhibit a "grain-high" attitude, which can interfere with your training and performance schedule." This is why I don't recommend feeding a large amount of oats at one time. Also, in the Omnis formula, since the oats are mixed throughout. They are eaten very slowly, so this blood sugar spike does not occur. This, along with the right amount of oat inclusion, Omnis does not make a horse hot because of this.

cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-09-23 10:08 AM
I didn't say they were more digestible. I said they have more starch per pound.  They are heavier.  It's a fact.  

OregonBR - 2015-09-22 12:28 PM

As long as the corn and barley are rolled, they are more digestible than oats.  They are also more dense (more energy per # than oats) and must be fed in moderation.  In order of calorie and energy content, corn comes before barley and oats are the least of the major grains.  Oats have more fiber and are least likely to cause digestive problems in horses.  They have been a staple of the horse industry for many years.  But when fed in large meals, all cerial grains cause digestive upset and ulcers.  

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2012/04/nutrition-selection-and-use-of-feedstuffs-in-horses.pdf

Tdove - 2015-09-23 11:49 AM Indeed you did write that. I'll take your word that what you meant is the latter. The reason oats makes them more high is that the starch in oats is faster digested than corn and it absorbed in the forgut, where in corn, only a small portion is on the forgut, while the rest is digested in the hindgut. Yes indeed, per pound, corn is denser that oats.

Tdove - 2015-09-23 12:32 PM I don't know what to say. I have given you the information. If that is your experience, great. You quoted from the article. 45% prececal digestibility for "ground" corn is still less than half. Whole oats are still much higher. And grinding corn is much different than cracked or rolled corn. From the other article: "With other grains such as barley, corn, and wheat, the use of a processing method such as dry rolling or crimping does not result in significant improvements in nutrient utilization. In order to improve starch availability in corn, Meyer et al.(1993) suggests that grinding or the addition of heat are effective in increasing starch digestion prececally while only cracking the grain does not." Do you feed ground corn? Unless you feed in a pellet, then you probably don't. Mathmatics simply do not support your claim. For 2lbs of your mix to equal 4lb of whole oats, digestible energy would have to be double that of whole oats. That is simply not mathematically possible. Oats typically contain 1.3Mcal/lb while corn has 1.6Mcal/lb. Meaning corn is only 25% more energy dense lb for lb. Your mix, even with rolling, would be less. This is just the facts. I certainly not telling you what you are feeding is bad and I am not advocating you switch to whole oats. I like whole oats. If you would like to feed your mix, then definitely that is what you should do.

OregonBR - 2015-09-23 3:05 PM

My experience.  Rolled corn, oats and barley fed at 2# per feeding will keep the weight on a horse better than 4# of whole oats.  No digestive problems have been experienced feeding this way for a decade. All ages of horses.  

want2chase3 - 2015-09-25 8:21 AM So which is considered the best most bang for your buck oats? Whole, crimped ? Steam rolled? I think at my feed store they call the whole oats race horse oats ...

SassyPirate - 2015-09-25 11:42 AM

I tried to read all the posts but I didn't see anything about Ulcers and Oats.

I have heard/read the higher starch in the oats is bad for ulcers.
Does anyone have any experience with ulcers and oats?? Has anyone feed them to horses with ulcers? Or horses prone to ulcers?

astreakinchic - 2015-09-25 12:40 PM


This used to be the thinking but not anymore.


Google succeed...it is made from oat flour and oat oil. Apparently oats are proving to be a valuable tool in helping heal hind gut ulcers.

winwillows - 2015-09-25 2:05 PM


I would not count on oats to help with ulcers. It would be a bit of a stretch to compare a supplement that has some oats as an ingredient and is fed at a rate of several ounces to a diet that may include pounds of oats.
The answer to ulcers is pretty straight forward. First, cure the ulcers. Second, modify the management of the horses health to avoid the irritation that begins the process of forming ulcers. The first is up to your vet. The second is modifying the diet to avoid an unnatural level of acidity on an empty stomach or in the hind gut. This is done by having a roughage source available as constantly as possible, having teeth properly done to allow for comfortable complete chewing that in turn produces much more buffering saliva, and eliminating excess grains inclusions. For most, not all but most, this system will eliminate the occurrence of ulcers that are generated due to diet.

Tdove - 2015-09-25 4:03 PM One thing that some may find interesting: A couple of times while testing Omnis Complete Performance, we took the horses off Omnis and back to the same level of 100% alfalfa cubes. Each time, we found less energy for hard anaerobic work and a slight loss of weight in heavy training. To test the effectiveness of the oat component in Omnis, we added a few pounds of heavy oats to the alfalfa cube diet. We saw a return of body weight and energy during intense work. BUT.....we saw an increase of excess energy and loss of focus, especially at the beginning of the training session. The traditional hot reputation that oats have. "On Omnis, they did not have the tendency to become hot." We have concluded and can explain this phenomenon this way: Because alfalfa cubes are eaten slowly and calmly, and because the oat inclusion is mixed throughout the ration, the RATE at which oats were consumed, digested, and absorbed into the bloodstream were drastically reduced. This allowed the low amount of oats not only to be completely safe, but Omnis also eliminated the behavioral affects, that oats can cause; while at the same time, increasing performance during intense work, balancing the alfalfa diet, and providing natural calories in the ration.

Tdove - 2015-09-25 4:52 PM

Of all the discussion of oats, I don't think I have seen anyone directly claim that oats help ulcers. The common thought is that oats are bad for ulcers, along with all other grains. However, I think what has been discovered is that a low inclusion of oats, will not inflame or cause ulcers, especially when fed in combination with highly digestible fiber sources, especially alfalfa. At the same time, this feeding philosophy allows the reduction of commercially mixed concentrates that may be contributing to the rising number of horses suffering from ulcers.

Personally I have come to love a low inclusion of oats in a horses diet. To say they are some where in between great and poor, I personally feel might be a little misleading. Used properly and with the correct other feedstuffs, oats are indeed great, in the context of how they can be useful in an equine diet. As an example, fed in two feedings of 1-2lbs each daily along with alfalfa, they are "great" for balancing the diet and adding needed starch for quick muscle response in athletic competition horses. Conversely, fed at 15 lbs a day with 10lbs of grass hay, I think we could all agree they are "bad".

Tdove - 2015-09-25 4:03 PM One thing that some may find interesting:



A couple of times while testing Omnis Complete Performance, we took the horses off Omnis and back to the same level of 100% alfalfa cubes. Each time, we found less energy for hard anaerobic work and a slight loss of weight in heavy training. To test the effectiveness of the oat component in Omnis, we added a few pounds of heavy oats to the alfalfa cube diet. We saw a return of body weight and energy during intense work. BUT.....we saw an increase of excess energy and loss of focus, especially at the beginning of the training session. The traditional hot reputation that oats have.



"On Omnis, they did not have the tendency to become hot."



We have concluded and can explain this phenomenon this way: Because alfalfa cubes are eaten slowly and calmly, and because the oat inclusion is mixed throughout the ration, the RATE at which oats were consumed, digested, and absorbed into the bloodstream were drastically reduced. This allowed the low amount of oats not only to be completely safe, but Omnis also eliminated the behavioral affects, that oats can cause; while at the same time, increasing performance during intense work, balancing the alfalfa diet, and providing natural calories in the ration.

OregonBR - 2015-09-23 3:46 PM I'm not arguing with you anymore.  If I said the sky is blue, you'd say it wasn't.  I've fed the way I feed for DECADES.  The only time I've switched in the last decade have been to try feeding whole oats briefly.  I had to up what I was feeding by 2x and they still lost weight.   The other time I switched to processed feeds and I got 2 colic surgeries for my trouble.  I don't care what you feed.