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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 928
  
Location: Northern CA | Does not make it cow bred! Being a cow horse finatic, it irks me when people call a horse cow bred, just because it isn't race bred, or has some unknown lines, or goes back to Doc Bar 5 generations ago. So it must be cow bred, right?! Sorry-- I'm done now. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | and just because it has Dash For Cash 8 generations back or the word "Jet" in there doesn't make it racebred either. I refer to the in between as working or ranch bred. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| There are lots of names that have crossed over and the line is not clearly defined. Miss N Cash for example...cow or race? Driftwood...technically DTF goes back to driftwood. I think the use of the horse has more to do with it than recognized bloodlines. Especially in the barrel world where we have been crossing the two, for the best of both worlds. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 805
Location: Montana | Seen one the other day advertised as "race bred" even had a SI of like 89 but was sired by a son of Shining Spark!  |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Lucy's Mom - 2015-10-01 11:07 PM
Seen one the other day advertised as "race bred" even had a SI of like 89 but was sired by a son of Shining Spark!
So.... it can prolly run faster than a cow. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Ive always wondered about this... growing up I ride cowbred horses - docs prescription, peppy san badger, poco bueno, hollywood gold, organ grinder, etc.
But what do you call like the lines like Driftwood? Even Firewater Flit? Frenchmans Guy? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| stayceem - 2015-10-02 10:38 AM
Ive always wondered about this... growing up I ride cowbred horses - docs prescription, peppy san badger, poco bueno, hollywood gold, organ grinder, etc.
But what do you call like the lines like Driftwood? Even Firewater Flit? Frenchmans Guy?
I think at this point we can just call Firewater Flit & Frenchman's Guy barrel bred. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | or "by frenchmans guy" when he is off the papers LOL. That one makes me giggle. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| hoofs_in_motion - 2015-10-02 9:45 AM
or "by frenchmans guy" when he is off the papers LOL. That one makes me giggle.
Or "DTF bred" because the colt's mom's sister's great grandpa's cousin was DTF  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-10-02 9:45 AM or "by frenchmans guy" when he is off the papers LOL. That one makes me giggle.
My favorite is when someone is selling a baby based off of the great great something on the papers. There is a lady down the road doing this exact same thing. Because one of the great grandsires has sent horses to the NFR (her words, not mine) that is what she is selling it based off of. |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | BY The Stallion
OUT of the mare
Get it right people---LOL, OK I am done.
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| Ive always wondered about this... growing up I ride cowbred horses - docs prescription, peppy san badger, poco bueno, hollywood gold, organ grinder, etc.
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These bloodlines were all bred to be cutters or reiners with certain conformations and agility moving side to side with powerful hindquarters with low set tails to support their weight while pivoting or squatting in front of a cow ... when bred to each other or added with Doc Bar they became more and more specialized in the events they were bred for and most can't out run a fat man .... this is called specialized breeding ..
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But what do you call like the lines like Driftwood? Even Firewater Flit? Frenchmans Guy?
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I refer these as ranch horse bred. Certain working bloodlines were dominate in different areas. Speed is the easiest trait to lose when breeding horses and the owners of the big ranches were always adding speed bred sires to their ranch's broodmare bands.
And if you look close at the older lines ... their bloodlines contained fast horses that were in brush track match races ... so keeping with the added speed these stallions improved the standard ranch mare's bloodlines and became well known sires ... mainly of roping horses. You see this happening even today ... look at the speed bred stallions in the northern cattle states that did not earn enough money on the track for your big time racing stallion stations to stand them to their clients race bred mares.
Take Frenchmans Guy the outstanding sire that made him a great sire was LIGHTNING BAR .. his pedigree will scare the pants off of most of you when you really look at it ...
We all know who SUN FROST is ... so let's take his dam first PRISSY CLINE and look at her ........ http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/prissy+cline .......she is the perfect picture of the old bulldog quarterhorses that had enough speed to go race on weekends and work on the ranch the other 5 days
Get ready to drop your drawers .. let's look at his sire DOCS JACK FROST .......>>> http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+jack+frost .........>> the last thing that people see is that LIGHTNING BAR and BARDELLA are full blooded brother and sister and that is topped off with another line of 3bars thru WAR CHANT .. and when you look at the rest of his pedigree they were all ex race horses that also worked on ranches
DOCS JACK FROST was a phenomenal athlete in the 3bars tradition ... he had no true cutting blood in him per the Texas bred cutters ... and they would not touch him with a 10 ft pole as a sire to breed their mares to...
Now don't pick your drawers up off the floor just yet ... there was a crazy lady that bought a stogy little mare that caught her eye at a sale in Minnesota and bought her ... this crazy lady had the foresight of an angel ....... CASEYS LADYLOVE ...>>> http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/caseys+ladylove ... and bred her to two stallions with heavy 3BAR bloodlines ... LAUGHING BOY and LEIGE LORD ....... which made her a renowned breeder of spectacular horses!! which became known as the Frenchman's horse because no one could pronounce or remember their last name .. LOUISEAU ..
http://www.frenchmansquarterhorses.com/
This lady genius had the foresight to breed another line of LIGHTNING BAR with her super broodmare and ended up with super sire FRENCHMANS GUY!!
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/frenchmans+guy who has the audacity to have his own internet site and FB page ... ENJOY!! ... http://www.frenchmansguy.com/FrenchmansGuy.html
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FIRE WATER FLIT ....... is easier to break down ....... His sire FLIT BAR was by two of the most famous sires in this era ... SUGAR BARS and LEO .. they could sire for the race track and the arena and make headlines where ever their get competed!!
When FLIT BAR was bred to the famous bulldog qh roping cartel coming from KING P234 ... SLASH J HARLETTA was the perfect match ....
Again ... we have a wonderful woman that had a dream in mind and carefully managed the stud duties of FIRE WATER FLIT to be the famous sire he is today ... HATS OFF TO YOU VICKIE ADAMS!! AND again we have a horse with his own internet site and FB page .... http://firewatercreekranch.com/stallion.htm this magnificent sire made TEXAS FAMOUS FOR HAVING THE FASTEST BARREL HORSES IN THE WORLD!!
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DON'T KNOCK it when you see the famous sires continue to recede generation by generation in barrel horses being sold today ... look at the entire pedigree and see the specialized breeding that is happening. The more famous families you see in babies today with perhaps a new loaded source of speed are the ones that will be winning over the next 20 years because their inherent conformation, agility and mental aptitude are ingrained in their genes. The sport of barrel racing is demanding these horses with specialized breeding in order to compete with the tuff competition we have today ..
I am trying to figure out what barrel sire to breed a new mare I have with ... she is by WAVE CARVER and out of a daughter of CORONA CARTEL ... lol
HAVE A GOOD DAY AND KEEP SMILING ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-10-02 11:45 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | I'll take a cow-horse any day of the week. After a full day of brush popping strays, cutting, roping and dragging cattle... that ugly cow-horse will still be 'ears perked forward' looking for another.... while all those pretty, pampered show horses are dragging a$$....  |
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| It takes a lot of speed to compete in barrel racing these days ... so load up with the fastest bloodlines you HAVE THE ABILITY TO RIDE .... .... and breed like conformations to like conformations for your specific speed events ...
This is how my description above works ..
https://youtu.be/CbxzP7UMOzI
The horse is EASY DASH OAK better known as ROUNDPEN ..
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/easy+dash+oak
THIS IS THE SUCCESS THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRAIN THE CORRECT METHODS TO A FAST HORSE THAT IS A NATURAL ATHLETE .. AND THE RIDERS HAVE THE TALENT TO RIDE AS FAST AS THE HORSE CAN RUN ...
https://youtu.be/3gPnGSg8KuA
Answer to the person on the length of reins ... keeps you from nagging your horse and at the same time not to use your reins to regain your balance ..>>>>>>>>>
AND HERE is a prime example of having your reins long enough to sit up in the middle of your horse and lift up to control left and right movements ... notice the reins will touch her belly button when horse is in forward motion and how Jordan's hands are never still as she works this young horse ... watch closely at the poles at the end of the video ...
https://youtu.be/02VcmNoizYc
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-10-04 3:25 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| And it's not either/or. There ARE QH's bred for things other than cutting or racing. How would you classify older sires like Triple Chick or Boston Mac, who had successful race AND show careers? |
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 Veteran
Posts: 133
Location: texas | My 07' gelding has pretty nice bloodlines but anybody wanna give me some good to know info on his breeding? i do barrels and poles on him. i feel like he could easily be a nice cow horse or reining but first of all im not really a cowy person due to not being exposed to them and secondly about the reining he stops nice will kinda spin i just dont think i really know how to teach him the "reining stuff" haha
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chic+olenas+cutter |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BARRELHORSE..........Thanks for posting those .. and the information was really interesting.!! of course Tammys win had me in tears.. |
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| HorseMommyFiveO - 2015-10-04 10:11 AM
And it's not either/or. There ARE QH's bred for things other than cutting or racing. How would you classify older sires like Triple Chick or Boston Mac, who had successful race AND show careers?
CHICADO V had 3 great sons ... THE OLE MAN (named after Frank Vessels) ...... THREE CHICKS and TRIPLE CHICK all by the great sire 3BARS !!
TRIPLE CHICK foundered as a young horse and all three were by the hottest sire outcross in history and the best mares in the country lined up .. the direction they went depended on the person that owned the foal ... the TB blood made them more athletic and faster than the wide front ended and stout bulldog qh's of that era ... they were ATHLETES!!
BOSTON MAC .. BY TRIPLE CHICK was as black as a chunk of coal and his dam was by the well known sire PARKERS TROUBLE ... This new phenomenon of seeing the TB blood creating the presence of a horse in halter classes, the added speed and agility due to conformation changes attracted owners that were active in all of your AQHA classes ...
Your eyes and your butt will tell you when you have an exceptional horse between your legs ..
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-04 2:18 PM HorseMommyFiveO - 2015-10-04 10:11 AM And it's not either/or. There ARE QH's bred for things other than cutting or racing. How would you classify older sires like Triple Chick or Boston Mac, who had successful race AND show careers? CHICADO V had 3 great sons ... THE OLE MAN (named after Frank Vessels ) ...... THREE CHICKS and TRIPLE CHICK all by the great sire 3BARS !! TRIPLE CHICK foundered as a young horse and all three were by the hottest sire outcross in history and the best mares in the country lined up .. the direction they went depended on the person that owned the foal ... the TB blood made them more athletic and faster than the wide front ended and stout bulldog qh's of that era ... they were ATHLETES!! BOSTON MAC .. BY TRIPLE CHICK was as black as a chunk of coal and his dam was by the well known sire PARKERS TROUBLE ... This new phenomenon of seeing the TB blood creating the presence of a horse in halter classes, the added speed and agility due to conformation changes attracted owners that were active in all of your AQHA classes ... Your eyes and your butt will tell you when you have an exceptional horse between your legs ..
Courteousy of AQHA Hall of Fame and Museum's FB:
Dark clouds are supposed to have silver linings. Consider, for example, Chicado V. Blessed with tremendous talent, Chicado V ran on her own dark cloud: legs fast enough to propel her to records, but calf-kneed and crooked enough that she could not keep it up.
Bred and owned by Frank Vessels, Sr., founder of Los Alamitos Race Course, Chicado V was foaled in 1950, a daughter of Chicaro Bill and Do Good. Chicado V was also a full sister to successful sire Senor Bill.
The brown filly did not impress Vessels’ trainer, Farrell Jones, so she was sent to Eddie Moreno. Moreno took Chicado V to the Los Angeles Fairgrounds at Pomona for her first race – and her first track record. The filly ran 350 yards in :18.1 seconds, then the fastest time ever clocked by a 2-year-old at the distance.
Jones decided maybe he liked Chicado V and took her to Bay Meadows. The filly equaled the track record in her second race and outran Bardella, with whom Chicado V shared honors of champion freshman filly. In her sophomore year, the brown filly lost by a nose, but pushed highly regarded Robin Reed to a new track record. She won the next meeting between herself, Robin Reed and Clabbertown G, and she equaled Robin Reed’s time of :17.9 at 350 yards. After running third and sixth in her next two races, Chicado V was retired.
Her racing career over, Chicado V produced Triple Chick, War Chick, Table Tennis, Three Chicks, Chicado Chick and The Ole Man. These horses were AQHA Champions, racing champions and producers of champions.
The blood still flows today, for example, in 2005 world champion DM Shicago, whose sire, Separatist, traces to the mare, and in Corona Cartel, 2005’s leading sire by earnings, whose maternal grandsire, Chicks Beduino, also traces to Chicado V.
The brown mare died in 1972, and was inducted into the American Quarter Horse Hall of Fame in 2006.
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
Location: Madill Ok | Whiteboy - 2015-10-01 5:35 PM There are lots of names that have crossed over and the line is not clearly defined. Miss N Cash for example...cow or race? Driftwood...technically DTF goes back to driftwood. I think the use of the horse has more to do with it than recognized bloodlines. Especially in the barrel world where we have been crossing the two, for the best of both worlds.
how does DTF technically go back to driftwood? |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | through Barred Girl http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/barred+girl |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | my pet peeve :)....someone will ask 'have you ever had a Hancock or Beduino' and what they fail to keep in mind is that there are 14 names on a set of papers. To me it's the combination of those 14 names that gives you the horse you've got and not just the one name everyone has heard of.
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | teehaha - 2015-10-04 4:24 PM
my pet peeve :)....someone will ask 'have you ever had a Hancock or Beduino' and what they fail to keep in mind is that there are 14 names on a set of papers. To me it's the combination of those 14 names that gives you the horse you've got and not just the one name everyone has heard of.
I understand what you are saying, and for the most part, I agree.... but...... there ARE some genes that punch through. When I was in farrier school, we were cautioned about two bloodlines. Never make a Hancock mare mad!!!! Ditto with anything that came down from Impressive... |
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