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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
 
Location: London Ontario | I am in Ontario and have a 3 yr. old QH off the track. She is in good health and is steadily gaining weight back from the stress of being on the track and moving farms.
She is currently on free choice second cut or third cut hay during the day(turn out from dawn to dusk). She gets two flakes as well in her stall at night. I will weigh out how much Tribute Kalm and EZ tonight, its two small coffee cans(will get the actual weight). I also have her on Omega Alpha Biotic 8 AM/PM and a pump of Coco Soya oil AM/PM as well as Formula 707 Daily Essentials Vit/Min a scoop a day. I don't plan on continuing the Biotic 8, Coco soya or Formula 707 once done/ She also has a blue salt block and a brown mineral block in her stall. The only treats she eats is Purina roughage chunks so she gets a handful or so a day as well.
My questions is what do you guys feed and is my mare getting enough(I know it differs)?
I like the thought of going grain-less but don't know if I can. I also don't think it is feasible to feed hay cubes either. I am hoping to pick up a bag of the Buckeye loose mineral to replace the Formula 707. She is a VERY picky mare. The other thing I was thinking was switch to Purina Trimax or Elite, I am in talks with a Purina Nutritionist now to get more details on it. Ideally I'd like to put her on oats(will this make her hot??) and alfalfa pellets but have no idea where to get it or if this will suffice her needs. If I just walk into our local feed store and as for oats and alfalfa pellets will they get me the correct stuff? Do they alfalfa pellets need to be soaked? Is there anything I will need to add on top of this? Also will this be too much alfalfa as there is a fair bit in her current hay.
Sorry for the long post, we cannot get a lot of the products our southern neighbors can and I will be honest in saying I am in no way a nutritionist! Thanks all I look forward to seeing what you all feed! |
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Location: South Dakota | I am a big believer in plenty of good hay...keep it in front of them through the day...1 pound of oats a day along with Forco, this is a great digestive supplement that helps them utilize the feed they are getting, keeping their guts working...they are wanting dealers in Canada, so that is something you could look into....possible a local vet or feed store would be interested in becoming a dealer.
As well...ground flaxseed is always a good thing...I also add 1 pound of Alfalfa pellets, always soaked to supplement my good quality grass hay...if you have good hay with a little alfalfa mixed in with it, that sounds great to me :)
Edited by ridejg 2015-10-06 10:19 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Some people say oats make their horse hot, I honestly haven't noticed a behaviour change in my horses while on oats.
If the hay is good quality, this is all the horse should need. You can have your hay tested.
For my horses that are in good shape, they are either on pasture or hay 24/7 and get grain approx 1-2 lbs daily just so I can give them their suppliments.
Horses that need some weight, I will give 1-2 lbs grain, 1 lb of buckeye grow and win, and either ultimate 100, or whole flax 1 cup. Twice a day
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| If she were in my barn she would not touch any processed feeds. Whole oats and alfalfa/grass 24-7. I had mine on all that stuff, probiotics, prebiotics, vitamins and minerals etc. If a horse's hind gut is working properly they do not need all that stuff. Only thing my horses get is free choice hay, whole oats for their curost, and my off the track horse gets a little rice bran. Thats it, they look and feel better than they ever have. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Is it not true that horses seek out salt and mineral? So if she is actively licking her mineral block does that not mean she needs/wants it? I don't intend to start an argument but does curost and alfalfa provide all that too? She has minimal grass in her pasture. And doesn't alfalfa need calcium or phosphorus or something to balance? Again, I am no nutritionist but I am always looking for more information on the topic |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | There is a million different ways to feed. You don't need a nutritionist to learn how to feed well. I like to keep it simple and feed ingredients with a purpose. I don't like giving a horse a bunch of different stuff. Plenty of top quality forage first, in any combination of form. Then add ingredients that you specifically think will either increase health or performance. The level of actual help they will give you will be minimal compared to the best hay. And you don't really need to give that much. Basically, feed great hay and keep it simple. I believe it worse to over supplement a horse than under. It certainly makes it more confusing. Also, I am not a believer in a horse needing a lot of fat in the diet. Look at your total diet, instead of just bits and pieces. You can always change and try different things.
On your questions above. Licking mineral does not necessarily mean they need it. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Look at how they look, feel and perform to gauge health. Next, horses can handle high levels of calcium quite well, most horses easily up to 6:1 Ca:Ph. If you are feeding considerable amounts of alfalfa and want to use a mineral supplement, look for one with equal parts of Ca:Ph, like a 12:12 block. Also, get one made for horses.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-06 11:25 AM
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
| Good hay & Podium by master feeds!! |
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| MC1993 - 2015-10-06 8:44 AM
Is it not true that horses seek out salt and mineral? So if she is actively licking her mineral block does that not mean she needs/wants it? I don't intend to start an argument but does curost and alfalfa provide all that too? She has minimal grass in her pasture. And doesn't alfalfa need calcium or phosphorus or something to balance? Again, I am no nutritionist but I am always looking for more information on the topic
THis would be an excellent topic to ask Dr. Schell over at secondvet.com. He is the developer and Expert. I am not a nutritionist either. If a horse has access to quality forage ( Mine don't have pasture either), and the hind gut is working, then no. I do leave a salt lick for mine but the rarely if ever use it since being on curost. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Karlaw - 2015-10-06 12:28 PM
Good hay & Podium by master feeds!!
Isn't masterfeeds not a ionophore free facility? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | Tribute is an ionophore free facility and is a great feed. I feed my older horses 2 lbs of Kalm Ez and my ott colt 6lbs of Kalm Ultra. When I switched my Colt to Kalm Ultra he really started to fill out. He looks great as do my other 2. I also feed Formula 1 noni and THE. They get overnight turnout, some grass hay, and 1 flake of alfalfa in their stalls. Will up hay when the grass diminishes.
Why do you think she isn't getting enough? If she's put on weight and looks heathy with a nice coat there really isn't more you can ask for. I fed oats before but switched to the Kalm Ez as the feed store didn't always have them in stock. If I ever don't have access to tribute I will probably feed oats. I don't need to feed hay cubes because we have good hay. I also feel like we all want to pump the vitamin/minerals to them when they really probably don't need them.
Edited to add they do have salt blocks in their feed boxes, but we do not leave out minerals. We have put some out in the winter and they might eat them some, but others will hardly touch them. I don't feel that it's necessary.
Edited by TheDutchMan01 2015-10-06 12:24 PM
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
| MC1993 - 2015-10-06 11:02 AM
Karlaw - 2015-10-06 12:28 PM
Good hay & Podium by master feeds!!
Isn't masterfeeds not a ionophore free facility?
Yes they are Ionophore free. BUT with that being said any kind of contamination can happen at any feed store. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Karlaw - 2015-10-07 10:28 AM
Good hay & Podium by master feeds!!
I use the podium as well...but we feed cubes and beet pulp along with whole oats....M |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| MC1993 - 2015-10-06 10:44 AM
Is it not true that horses seek out salt and mineral? So if she is actively licking her mineral block does that not mean she needs/wants it? I don't intend to start an argument but does curost and alfalfa provide all that too? She has minimal grass in her pasture. And doesn't alfalfa need calcium or phosphorus or something to balance? Again, I am no nutritionist but I am always looking for more information on the topic
I was told horses will seek out what they need.
However, I don't feed salt blocks, or licks, as horses tongues were not designed to lick.
I feed free choice mineral and free choice salt separately. In the winter months I will add selenium to the mineral as my area has no selenium.
This year I have noticed even the deer are helping themselves to the mineral and salt, so that tells me that my area is definitely lacking something. |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Here is my limited knowledge to share.....
A horses diet should be at a minimum of 70 % forage, to help maintain a healthy hind gut.Age and physical activity level(even climate) is going to vary on overall requirements for each horse. Also quality of forage will vary from each region and even the "cut "(lignin content of forage can vary the nutrient value) it is.
Digestible Energy is important with any feed type you give a horse, regardless of where you live. Getting hay tested is important.
Fats, proteins, amino acids, crude protein,macro & micro(trace) minerals and vitamins are part of the nutrition formula.
Calcium/phosphors ratio should be 1.5-2:1, never should have calcium higher then phosphorus, this is a MACRO mineral. Copper & Zinc are MICRO mineral and that ratio should be 3-4:1 Copper:Zinc. The minerals do have some that will counter act each other and some that work together, like magnesium works with calcium for muscle function. Also definicncies in any minerals will vary area to area, BUT also keep in mind, back to hay testing if hay is from a different area that is a factor.
I would suggest getting ahold of a book called "The Horse Nutrition Handbook"
I am just sharing overall information, I do think we over supplement our horses and money goes into the manure pile.
To the original poster, looking at your horse body weight % as to what your feeding can help you determine if they are getting enough. How a horse looks and even acts can tell you if they are getting too much of something or not enough.
Good luck!
Our horses currently are on Timothy/alfalfa cubes/pasture, with a free choice mineral block. This winter our horses will be on oat straw & cubes, shortage of hay dictates this happen and really in the past a straw/forage type mix has done our horses very well. |
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Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | Karlaw - 2015-10-06 11:42 AM MC1993 - 2015-10-06 11:02 AM Karlaw - 2015-10-06 12:28 PM Good hay & Podium by master feeds!! Isn't masterfeeds not a ionophore free facility? Yes they are Ionophore free. BUT with that being said any kind of contamination can happen at any feed store.
I found it very helpful to phone the feed store/product manufacturer and ask questions! I've never had someone not help me when I called.....I agree with Karlaw tho.
Edited by dream_chaser 2015-10-07 3:39 PM
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