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Member
Posts: 16
| Im torn with 2 stallions, a frenchmans guy or a carona cartel, need advice or opinions, which would be a better sire for my mare for a barrel prospect, mare was a 1d barrel mare,. | |
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 Saint Stacey
  
| Depends on many things. How is the mare bred? What's her conformation? How are the actual studs and what did the do and what have they produced? | |
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Member
Posts: 16
| My mare is race bred with cutting and roping bloodlines, mom side is mostly roping/barrel racing, her confrimation is 100% shes 15.3 and built like a tank. Shes a 1d barrel horse, her dad was AQHA mom was APHA. Bolth stallions are 16hh or more, frenchmans guy has all the reputation has produced, of all own sons of frenchmans guy hes ranked 3rd has a money producer, has thrown many money producing colts very very well known, the corona cartel is proven as a champion race horse, hes built like a tank and throws big colts, has an amazing speed index. There bolth outstanding stallions, im so torn between them! Ive researched more of the corona cartel, I've never been around them so i don't know there temperments quirks or attitudes. | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | StreakingPaint012 - 2015-10-11 7:14 AM
My mare is race bred with cutting and roping bloodlines, mom side is mostly roping/barrel racing, her confrimation is 100% shes 15.3 and built like a tank. Shes a 1d barrel horse, her dad was AQHA mom was APHA. Bolth stallions are 16hh or more, frenchmans guy has all the reputation has produced, of all own sons of frenchmans guy hes ranked 3rd has a money producer, has thrown many money producing colts very very well known, the corona cartel is proven as a champion race horse, hes built like a tank and throws big colts, has an amazing speed index. There bolth outstanding stallions, im so torn between them! Ive researched more of the corona cartel, I've never been around them so i don't know there temperments quirks or attitudes.
Can you post pictures of your mare and pedigrees of her and the sons you are considering? Of all the sons of FG and CC, and there are a bagillion, a lot may or may not compliment your mare's conformation. I have yet to see a mare with 100% perfect conformation or even a stallion. Although some are dang near perfect in my eyes. If your mare is a paint, or breeding stock even, what sire you pick will also matter for resale value if you so desire to sell resulting foal. Breeding stock paints have little value on the market, paints in general have a smaller value. Not saying it is fair, just how it is. So I would be hesitant to spend $3500 on a son of CC, but there are plenty of nice sons that are $1000 or less. Same with FG. You might add the CC since your mare could most likely use the speed. Just going off her roping/cutting lines mixed with some run. FG sons that have plenty of speed would be good too. So much depends on exactly what your mare is. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | GhostDancer on here has some nice APHA stallions to choose from. They are by top sires and eligible for incentives. Send her a pm  | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Seriously? OMG why is everyone going Corona Cartel? Geez? There are SOOOOOOO many great stallions that have produced over and over! BARREL HORSES! | |
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Saint Stacey
| mollibtexan - 2015-10-11 7:58 PM
Seriously? OMG why is everyone going Corona Cartel? Geez? There are SOOOOOOO many great stallions that have produced over and over! BARREL HORSES!
I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about DTF not that long ago.... Why do people want CC get? Because they are pretty, fast, wicked smart and good looking. What wouldn't you try that for a barrel horse?
Edited by SKM 2015-10-12 6:32 AM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I bought a daughter of little corona out of a blondys dude and doc bar as a 4yo trail broke i was sick the entire last winter, she could not even lope a circle i put 60 days i thought she would never get and she was so uncorfortable to ride, but ol boy when she did get it i just troted around some barrel for about a month took her to a show troted twice i went to lope her thru she did get it and she is so athetletic and quiet, but i know she has the gas even hacking she has smoothed out and uses her body, and can get unser herself. And if you dont ride her for two weeks still the same. I really think she could make a nice rope horse to. So quiet in barn and trailer you have to look to see she is still there. | |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| If your mare has plenty of run, I would go with the proven FG son. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | SKM - 2015-10-12 3:47 AM
mollibtexan - 2015-10-11 7:58 PM
Seriously? OMG why is everyone going Corona Cartel? Geez? There are SOOOOOOO many great stallions that have produced over and over! BARREL HORSES!
I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about DTF not that long ago.... Why do people want CC get? Because they are pretty, fast, wicked smart and good looking. What wouldn't you try that for a barrel horse?
All that and we DO need outcrosses. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| oija - 2015-10-12 8:16 AM
SKM - 2015-10-12 3:47 AM
mollibtexan - 2015-10-11 7:58 PM
Seriously? OMG why is everyone going Corona Cartel? Geez? There are SOOOOOOO many great stallions that have produced over and over! BARREL HORSES!
I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about DTF not that long ago.... Why do people want CC get? Because they are pretty, fast, wicked smart and good looking. What wouldn't you try that for a barrel horse?
All that and we DO need outcrosses.
And Corona Cartel is a fantastic producer as well with many stunning producing sons. There is a reason he has the highest stud fee of any Quarter Horse.
We have many racebred stallions here that barrel racers breed to and get stunning barrel horses, ESPECIALLY on cowbred horses. I would love to have a CC direct get or grandget. | |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| I don't want to slam Corona Cartel horses, they are everything that has been mentioned, fast, pretty and smart. Like First Down Dash, Corona Cartel himself as a sire was financially beyond what most barrel racers would pay. It is possible that a son of Corona Cartel may become known for siring barrel horses, but that hasn't happened yet. Ivory James has had a few do respectably in the barrel pen, as have some other CC sons, but as of yet they haven't lit the barrel pen on fire.
Breeding is a gamble. I would go with bloodlines proven to produce what I am wanting. I would listen to experienced people who ride many different horses with different bloodlines and win on them, to see what is the best suited for the event I am breeding for. | |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Sooooo many variables here.... | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 274
| Just food for thought, I bred for a lot of things, confirmation, mentality, foot, bone, and SPEED (la bred runners :) Faster Horses, More Money)... however one thing I do look at when purchasing a mare is for the X Factor...Frenchmans Guy, unless bred to a double dominate mare, has around 25% chance to have the X factor... Corona Cartel, himself, is probably an X factor carrier, meaning his fillies have a 100% chance of having the X factor as a *recessive* gene when bred to non X factor mares.... just food for thought. | |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Is your mare regular registry APHA? | |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 9:45 AM Just food for thought, I bred for a lot of things, confirmation, mentality, foot, bone, and SPEED (la bred runners :) Faster Horses, More Money)... however one thing I do look at when purchasing a mare is for the X Factor...Frenchmans Guy, unless bred to a double dominate mare, has around 25% chance to have the X factor... Corona Cartel, himself, is probably an X factor carrier, meaning his fillies have a 100% chance of having the X factor as a *recessive* gene when bred to non X factor mares.... just food for thought.
Do you feel that having a large heart is a big factor in running a 17 second pattern ????
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Veteran
Posts: 274
| Yes, I do...these horses are freaks....these are the horses that can fall down to their knees and still get up and outrun you by .3 of a sec or more...these are the horses that you put on the trailer and haul countless hours down the rode and they still win regardless....so yes, until you have ridden a one, you can not compare. I have to say I do not bred for barrel horses, however my runners have ended up in the barrel pen. I believe it truly makes a difference. This is my opinion, these types of horses are just hard to make/find. Breeding is always a gamble, however I want to even up my odds when breeding in every way possible...However above all I always bred to compliment my mares, and I always breed for confirmation soundness, nice bone and foot, above all...however when you have all that and need a that extra something, it doesn't hurt to try to get as much heart as you can....grittiness is something I strive for in all my horses. | |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 274
| Mighty Broke - 2015-10-12 10:40 AM
I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier.
You are correct that a larger heart will supply more O2...however, a key piece of pouring more O2 into the body is not just for speed and endurance. More O2 mean less time for the muscle to recoup for a hard work, this could be deemed many things...ie grittiness...or the fact that (A) barrel horse hauled countless hours down the road can keep running and winning like it was fresh off a rest, since it takes less time for lactic acid to reduce in the muscle, hence it is getting more oxygen supply. There are several other areas more O2 can help a horse recover faster. In the end, if you bred for soundness of body, foot, and mind. Plus though the X factor in the loop, you would have one bad mamma jamma of a barrel horse, provided training is correct and you have a good jockey in the irons. In turn this means less bute, less injections, less dex, less "what ever the new hype is", less money to haul down the road and keep your horse sound, which all in turn equals a greater profit margin on a win. Therefore, if you have bred for all great things in a horse (large bones, flat knees, good foot, deep stifle, long underline, ect), why not add an extra incentive of the X factor? | |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 12:11 PM Mighty Broke - 2015-10-12 10:40 AM I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier. You are correct that a larger heart will supply more O2...however, a key piece of pouring more O2 into the body is not just for speed and endurance. More O2 mean less time for the muscle to recoup for a hard work, this could be deemed many things...ie grittiness...or the fact that (A ) barrel horse hauled countless hours down the road can keep running and winning like it was fresh off a rest, since it takes less time for lactic acid to reduce in the muscle, hence it is getting more oxygen supply. There are several other areas more O2 can help a horse recover faster. In the end, if you bred for soundness of body, foot, and mind. Plus though the X factor in the loop, you would have one bad mamma jamma of a barrel horse, provided training is correct and you have a good jockey in the irons. In turn this means less bute, less injections, less dex, less "what ever the new hype is", less money to haul down the road and keep your horse sound, which all in turn equals a greater profit margin on a win. Therefore, if you have bred for all great things in a horse (large bones, flat knees, good foot, deep stifle, long underline, ect ), why not add an extra incentive of the X factor?
Good Points and well said. | |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 11:11 AM Mighty Broke - 2015-10-12 10:40 AM I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier. You are correct that a larger heart will supply more O2...however, a key piece of pouring more O2 into the body is not just for speed and endurance. More O2 mean less time for the muscle to recoup for a hard work, this could be deemed many things...ie grittiness...or the fact that (A ) barrel horse hauled countless hours down the road can keep running and winning like it was fresh off a rest, since it takes less time for lactic acid to reduce in the muscle, hence it is getting more oxygen supply. There are several other areas more O2 can help a horse recover faster. In the end, if you bred for soundness of body, foot, and mind. Plus though the X factor in the loop, you would have one bad mamma jamma of a barrel horse, provided training is correct and you have a good jockey in the irons. In turn this means less bute, less injections, less dex, less "what ever the new hype is", less money to haul down the road and keep your horse sound, which all in turn equals a greater profit margin on a win. Therefore, if you have bred for all great things in a horse (large bones, flat knees, good foot, deep stifle, long underline, ect ), why not add an extra incentive of the X factor?
While your dissertation is certainly informational and interesting ...... but for reference........
How many "winners" has this program produced for you?
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Veteran
Posts: 274
| NJJ - 2015-10-12 11:33 AM
Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 11:11 AM Mighty Broke - 2015-10-12 10:40 AM I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier. You are correct that a larger heart will supply more O2...however, a key piece of pouring more O2 into the body is not just for speed and endurance. More O2 mean less time for the muscle to recoup for a hard work, this could be deemed many things...ie grittiness...or the fact that (A ) barrel horse hauled countless hours down the road can keep running and winning like it was fresh off a rest, since it takes less time for lactic acid to reduce in the muscle, hence it is getting more oxygen supply. There are several other areas more O2 can help a horse recover faster. In the end, if you bred for soundness of body, foot, and mind. Plus though the X factor in the loop, you would have one bad mamma jamma of a barrel horse, provided training is correct and you have a good jockey in the irons. In turn this means less bute, less injections, less dex, less "what ever the new hype is", less money to haul down the road and keep your horse sound, which all in turn equals a greater profit margin on a win. Therefore, if you have bred for all great things in a horse (large bones, flat knees, good foot, deep stifle, long underline, ect ), why not add an extra incentive of the X factor?
How many "winners" has this program produced for you?
More than my fair share....I have been a lucky person to have owned the horses I have....but I chalk my luck into being educated and learning from some of the best in the industry, that have by far out produced me in winners.
Whichever, I strive to produce the best horses possible with the knowledge I have. Every breeder does....this is just my take and some of the ways I look for in breaking a tie when choosing which horses to bred or buy for my personal use.
Edited by Warriors Mom 2015-10-12 12:10 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | I would breed to the horse who's offspring are proven winners. A lot of winners don't produce and a lot of producers weren't world champions... I just prefer my odds with a horse I know is for sure already producing winners. | |
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Member
Posts: 16
| Well see i trained frenchmans guy futurity colts and geldings mares stallions. They where blown up and I've worked around them and been around there temperments I'm not cracked up about them. I beileve I'm gonna go with the corona cartel. I beileve he will be a great match for my mare. Thank you guys for helping me out! This is my first time ever breeding her, so im really excited to have a corona cartel colt or filly. I've always wanted a corona cartel because of the versatile endurance and how much heart they have. I've heard so many great things about them. So thank you everyone for helping me !! :) | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 12:08 PM
NJJ - 2015-10-12 11:33 AM
Warriors Mom - 2015-10-12 11:11 AM Mighty Broke - 2015-10-12 10:40 AM I agree with the things you strive for in a breeding program and in QH or TB racing I would put more stock in the X-Factor for the amount of O2 it supplies to the body but in a 17 second pattern I do not see it being a huge issue and I do not know that the X-Factor actually makes a horse grittier. You are correct that a larger heart will supply more O2...however, a key piece of pouring more O2 into the body is not just for speed and endurance. More O2 mean less time for the muscle to recoup for a hard work, this could be deemed many things...ie grittiness...or the fact that (A ) barrel horse hauled countless hours down the road can keep running and winning like it was fresh off a rest, since it takes less time for lactic acid to reduce in the muscle, hence it is getting more oxygen supply. There are several other areas more O2 can help a horse recover faster. In the end, if you bred for soundness of body, foot, and mind. Plus though the X factor in the loop, you would have one bad mamma jamma of a barrel horse, provided training is correct and you have a good jockey in the irons. In turn this means less bute, less injections, less dex, less "what ever the new hype is", less money to haul down the road and keep your horse sound, which all in turn equals a greater profit margin on a win. Therefore, if you have bred for all great things in a horse (large bones, flat knees, good foot, deep stifle, long underline, ect ), why not add an extra incentive of the X factor?
How many "winners" has this program produced for you?
More than my fair share....I have been a lucky person to have owned the horses I have....but I chalk my luck into being educated and learning from some of the best in the industry, that have by far out produced me in winners.
Whichever, I strive to produce the best horses possible with the knowledge I have. Every breeder does....this is just my take and some of the ways I look for in breaking a tie when choosing which horses to bred or buy for my personal use.
Have your horses been confirmed to have the large heart?
Also I haven't seen anywhere, and if it is published please direct me to the article, where it says corona cartel is confirmed to have the large heart.
One other question, is there a place that is testing for the large heart gene? | |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | To the OP: You're going to breed to Corona Cartel himself? Most of us can't get to him not only because his stud fee is high, I'm sure his managers are not breeding just every mare that comes along.
Are you saying you are going to a son? I'd be interested in hearing which sons are on your list. There are some that might be a better cross for barrels than others. | |
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