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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
   
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | It's only been 2 weeks since I got him so it's still a bit early to tell if he's gaining - he was thin when I got him...at times I look at pics of when we first got him and I think he is, other times I worry he's not. He's so big the weight tape barely comes together so that's not a good gage!
Four of my horses are 15.1 -16 hand range and fat -1200 to 1250+ range. My old off the track very TB type appendix horse was 16 h and I could keep him around 1250 for 20 years so I'm very familiar with putting & keeping weight on one, but haven't had something this big and it's a LOT different.
But I've got an OTTB that's 17.1 and 1320 per the weight tape and I'd like to hear from anyone else that's had track horses that big to see how much it took to keep their weight up to see if we're in line with that, especially considering he needs a good 100 pounds.
He's getting 6 pounds of Total Equine (per the bag), 6 cups rice bran/flax mix 7 pounds of alfalfa pellets, 6 pounds of Chaffhaye, all the Dallas grass/fescue hay he'll clean up (usually around 15 pounds) and he's turned out on decent pasture with another flake of hay --- 34 pounds of stuff.
I've started adding another pound of alfalfa cubes & beet pulp yesterday. Not too keen on the beet pulp because I've had too many get hot of it but he's not too keen on alfalfa cubes. The Total Equine has helped him chill quite a bit - he was on a senior feed and bouncing on the walls. He's also on Remission for the Lysine & magnesium to see if it helps skin touchyness - it seems to have.
Edited by Fairweather 2015-12-06 7:20 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
 
| I had one, a son of Firecracker Fire, he matured to 17.3 hands! Ridiculously big haha...anyway I had heck keeping him fat and was feeding as much as you are now plus he was turned out and had pasture to graze on all day also with a roundbale. Needless to say I sold him and that lady literally started feeding him half of what I was but kept him in a stall so that his metabolism slowed down and he not only maintained from what I was feeding but he gained! Maybe keep him in a smaller area, sometimes I think they were bred to have such high metabolisms that if you are feeding a lot of fat...it converts to energy...and then you end up having the opposite reaction. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | My 17.1 hh mare would clean up a 65lb bale per day of 50/50 top quality 2nd cutting orchard alfalfa hay all by herself if she got any less she would drop weight or if I bought lower quality hay she would drop weight. She didn't get any grain. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I know you love the Total Equine and my friend that rides huge HUS horses, her husband is a dealer for it and feeds it. It has never ever been enough for her big horses. They get ribby and lack luster on it. I liked it on about 1/2 what I have fed it to. If you are going to continue it, I would add a high fat supplement. Amplify etc. That is what she has to do because he refuses to let her feed anything else. It seems like people are either against it or die hard fans. |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-10-12 1:45 PM I know you love the Total Equine and my friend that rides huge HUS horses, her husband is a dealer for it and feeds it. It has never ever been enough for her big horses. They get ribby and lack luster on it. I liked it on about 1/2 what I have fed it to. If you are going to continue it, I would add a high fat supplement. Amplify etc. That is what she has to do because he refuses to let her feed anything else. It seems like people are either against it or die hard fans.
He's getting 6 cups of pure rice bran /flax seed mix for fat - equals out to just under 3/4 scoop (3 quart scoop)
What do they feed instead that doesn't make them hot? |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | I know nothing about the feed you're feeding but wanted to mention that the weight tape could be right-I have a QH that when using a calculation I found online where you measure their heartgirth and from chest to mid tail and he measured out to be 1560#. I've started deworming him properly and he's really put a bloom on this year-he also gets 1/3 more feed than anyone else in the barn. Point? Don't forget to deworm to proper size as well-give him a tube and a half. You might just see a huge difference. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | In my opinion Total Equine is to high protein and to low fat.. for TBs .I know you add alot of FLAX (fat) but it is to much protein...but that is just my opinion
I ride warmbloods and We dont use a High Protein Diet as yours . we go with 12% Protein and 8 or 10% fat grain.alot of good quality hay ..It will also take a month or 2 to see results..if you feel he needs to gain feed in 3 X day intervels . |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I have a moose too, only OTTQH. He eats like an elephant, and still looks thin to me. He's 16.3 and probably weighs about 1300lbs.
He is on turnout 24/7 in a BEAUTIFUL pasture as much as weather allows. If the weather is crappy, he comes in at night. He goes stir-crazy in a stall and is super ulcer prone. While in the pasture, I keep basically free-choice alfalfa available. He gets 2 lbs of Renew Gold daily, along with THE Muscle Mass (joint, ulcer protection, calm, and focus) as a top dress. He maintains really well on this, is shiny, obviously healthy, great muscle tone, etc. I have just come to terms that he is built like Kate Moss and I go about my business.
When I first got him off the track he looked like HELL. I did a full month of the Ulcerguard, which was horrible for my wallet but great for him. Within DAYS of being on the UG I could see an improvement in his coat, his energy level, his weight, his mood, everything. Best $900 I have ever spent on anything horse-related. I am VERY careful with his tummy now. He gets high-fat feed, alfalfa for the calcium, and before races he gets JailBreak. I haven't had any ulcer problems with him since.
All my other horses stay FAT on oxygen, and just live on pasture without any supplemental feed of any kind. There's a whole pasture full of ticks and then my giant preying mantis horse. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-12 2:23 PM In my opinion Total Equine is to high protein and to low fat.. for TBs .I know you add alot of FLAX (fat) but it is to much protein...but that is just my opinion
I ride warmbloods and We dont use a High Protein Diet as yours . we go with 12% Protein and 8 or 10% fat grain.alot of good quality hay ..It will also take a month or 2 to see results..if you feel he needs to gain feed in 3 X day intervels .
This is good info here. I know Jenifer was really happy with the fat supplement, I think from Blue Bonnet brand. Not sure what it is called. Her horses can not be a bit hyper since they are super slow peanut pushers. She liked the BB brand better because it was cheaper, but has had great results also with Amplify.
I am no feed expert, but I think too much protein can make one ring dinngy. Can you try and find a feed similar to what Bibs has mentioned for this particular horse vs the TE? My big guy (17h) is an easy keeper thank gosh. At home he gets a round bale of grass hay free choice and at the trainer he gets alfalfa but no grain. At home I give him soaked alfalfa/beet pellets and THE because I don't trust him enough on any grain. He dumped me last yr and whether it was lack of training, high on feed or from a previous injury, I don't know. But I don't plan to grain the guy unless he really needs it. I tried Ultium on him last yr and he was a raging nut. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Thanks for all the info. May be looking at other feeds if I don't see an improvement. We don't have a lot of lower protein options here that don't have molasses and beet pulp. They did try a trial of Ulcerguard on him and it made him extremely sick. I'm not sure if it was a reaction or what, but he is an ulcer candidate I think. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I don't believe feeding TB is any different than any other horse. With a proper hindgut they are the same. Alfalfa is very good for them as well. High quality forage diet and then add from there. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Fairweather - 2015-10-12 3:09 PM Thanks for all the info. May be looking at other feeds if I don't see an improvement. We don't have a lot of lower protein options here that don't have molasses and beet pulp. They did try a trial of Ulcerguard on him and it made him extremely sick. I'm not sure if it was a reaction or what, but he is an ulcer candidate I think.
If you are interested in THE GastroPLUS send me a pm. Bob did a lot if not all his case studies on TB's. The pictures are incredible. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Tdove - 2015-10-12 5:46 PM I don't believe feeding TB is any different than any other horse. With a proper hindgut they are the same. Alfalfa is very good for them as well. High quality forage diet and then add from there.
I dont think its the breed per say its the size and bones etc.. Larger horses usually require more calories. and in alot of my experiences... TBs do require more then a typical QH |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | My OTTB is over 16 hands. I feed him 5 lbs whole oats a day, 2 scoops cool calories, 2 scoops of a vit/min supplement and (coastal hay twice a day). Last time he went to the vet for coggins, vacs etc. my vet and her tech said he looked amazing. I think so too. I reduced/regeared by feeding program because up until July I was feeding way more and getting way less results. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| ampratt - 2015-10-13 7:43 AM
My OTTB is over 16 hands. I feed him 5 lbs whole oats a day, 2 scoops cool calories, 2 scoops of a vit/min supplement and (coastal hay twice a day). Last time he went to the vet for coggins, vacs etc. my vet and her tech said he looked amazing. I think so too. I reduced/regeared by feeding program because up until July I was feeding way more and getting way less results.
That is interesting, we found the same with thing with a long, tall show heifer. If she were a horse, she would have been a Thoroughbred, lol. We ended up simplifying her feed regimen and she held her weight better, but she never held her weight the way the rest of our girls did. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | A dear friend of mine ( jumper barn )feeds Whole oats, and Alfalfa cubes to all his and they look great to..lean but fit. I cant say enough about Cool calories .. or DAC Bloom Oil. it makes them bloom and put wieght on as well.I think differant horses have differant needs and find a program that works and stick with it for 30 days and see what you have.. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | GLP - 2015-10-13 8:28 AM
ampratt - 2015-10-13 7:43 AM
My OTTB is over 16 hands. I feed him 5 lbs whole oats a day, 2 scoops cool calories, 2 scoops of a vit/min supplement and (coastal hay twice a day). Last time he went to the vet for coggins, vacs etc. my vet and her tech said he looked amazing. I think so too. I reduced/regeared by feeding program because up until July I was feeding way more and getting way less results.
That is interesting, we found the same with thing with a long, tall show heifer. If she were a horse, she would have been a Thoroughbred, lol. We ended up simplifying her feed regimen and she held her weight better, but she never held her weight the way the rest of our girls did.
I've been lucky this worked for me. I feed 10 head and they've all bulked up and maintained the bulk. My OTTB doesn't look like a TB now except for his long long legs! |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Has anyone added rolled barley to their oats?
I'm thinking about going to either the oats or oats/barley mix, straight rice bran (instead of the flax & rice bran), and alfalfa pellets/cubes. |
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 Color My World
Posts: 4940
Location: My perfect world bubble | We are at an eventing barn - lots of TBs and WBs, everything from lesson horses to 4* horses. We've found Triple Crown Complete and Triple Crown Senior, with Flax, chaffhaye, alfalfa and good quality free choice coastal work best at keeping weight on them. We also feed the hard keepers and picky eaters 3x/day.
Quality of hay is super important - if we get a crappy load of hay they all drop weight really quickly.
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | Our son of Seattle Slew is a BIG 16.3. Lots of muscle, bone. Our farrier figures he'll take at least a #4 shoe. He taped at 1290 before we got him and he's put on a ton of muscle. He's also a 1999 horse so getting older and he's a stud. We are talking calorie requirements. Racehorses aren't easy keepers. Thoroughbreds aren't easy keepers. Guess what when they are both?
He gets 3# of Progressive Nutrition Grass Formula ration balancer drenched in canola oil a day. That's 3 times a normal daily maintenance level. Approximately 25# of alfalfa - 2nd cutting when I can't get the better 3rd - and at least another 40-50# of grass hay. The trick is to make sure every bite they get is packed with nutrition. It's fascinating to watch him eat - he inhales hay.
His mind is amazing and he doesn't, thank God, get nutso and hot but what I find keeps him calm better than anything is MORE FEED. If he's got stuff to chew (inhale) he's calm and quiet. That's true of any horse but him more so.
Buying a TB stud sight unseen seemed a pretty silly thing to do. I have the sense to be grateful every day that he has a good appetite and I just keep shoveling. We couldn't have gotten luckier.
I can't recommend Progressive Nutrition products enough. Expensive but they are quality protein. And since they are giving horses what they need and not what is cheap to put in a pellet they don't make them hot. They have a high fat feed too that people love - but I'm cheap so I mess with oil.
Buckeye, Woody's have similar products. And figure it will take 60 days to see a difference. Good luck!
Edited to add: Plenty of high-quality protein is, in my opinion, critical. Too much protein is expensive but not harmful. Here's a good way to know if your horse needs protein:
http://www.prognutrition.com/pn/nutrition-information/top-line-eval...
Edited by ausranch 2015-10-13 10:48 PM
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Update.....Had the vet out yesterday. He does have fore & hind gut ulcers - no surprise there. On a good note, I put the weight tape on him and could barely get it to meet at the ends which means he's gained at least an inch and a half of weight. I really thought he'd lost some but apparently not. Now I have to find a new tape big enough to measure him! |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Fairweather - 2015-10-16 6:57 AM Update.....Had the vet out yesterday. He does have fore & hind gut ulcers - no surprise there. On a good note, I put the weight tape on him and could barely get it to meet at the ends which means he's gained at least an inch and a half of weight. I really thought he'd lost some but apparently not. Now I have to find a new tape big enough to measure him!
How did the vet determine that and what did he reccomend to fix them? |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Barnmom - 2015-10-16 8:16 AM Fairweather - 2015-10-16 6:57 AM Update.....Had the vet out yesterday. He does have fore & hind gut ulcers - no surprise there. On a good note, I put the weight tape on him and could barely get it to meet at the ends which means he's gained at least an inch and a half of weight. I really thought he'd lost some but apparently not. Now I have to find a new tape big enough to measure him! How did the vet determine that and what did he reccomend to fix them?
Fecal test results and and all the acupressure points for ulcers. She said there's a lot of options like Equisure, Opromazole , and she can do compounded meds from the pharmacy, and Suceed for the hind gut. She said it just depends on the horse - he had a colic episode with Ulcerguard.She said she's seen improvement with holistic routes too. I've been doing some reading on holistic vet sites about papaya & I'm going to try. I've used a combination of ground flax, aloe, and Gut Proof Herbs and had good results so I'm going to incorporate that as well. She also said keep up with the alfalfa, said the TE was good ( no molasses, no beet pulp), very little grain, keep up the flax/rice bran, and keep hay in front of him 24/7. |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | ****Fingers crossed**** I had him on the TE but he wasn't gaining, so I put him on Cool Calories, Tribute low starch feed and that lasted a little while until he went off his feed, as well as the alfalfa cubes he was getting. The vet had recommended low starch but if he wasn't eating it, it couldn't do any good.
I had another horse that vets had recommended low starch but he did the exact same thing and I figured out through trial and error that molasses and beet pulp, including beet pulp without molasses, caused him to get slow on his feed. I fed him straight grains, flax, soybean meal. It worked on that ulcer horse so I figured it might work on Louie too.
I've had him on 6qts whole oats, 2 qts rolled barley, cup of flax & rice bran, Optizyme, and 1 cup of Super Sport --- fed twice a day-- since Nov 20th and he won't take his head out of the bucket until he's done. Best I have seen his appetite so far. I've replaced the cubes with alfalfa hay and he's still on a scoop of Chaffhaye with each feeding as well as all the grass hay he can clean up.
Hoping we finally have him figured out. The good thing is that he's not any hotter on the grain. I haven't noticed any difference. I took some updated pics today. Top pic is from today, bottom pic is the day he came here in September.
Edited by Fairweather 2015-12-06 7:40 PM
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