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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
 
Location: Millington, TN | Good morning! My four year old with about 45 days of training has never really wanted to eat the Triple Crown Low Starch. He eats about half of it and walks aways. So my question is what should I do? He is an easy keeper. So should I switch him to something else or just cut back on what I am giving him? He gets 3lbs twice a day with free choice high quaility hay, 24/7. I have my older horses on TC Complete but I am not sure about sure about switching him to TC Complete since it is high in fat and protien. He already has enough energy  |
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 Midget Lover
   
Location: Kentucky | Have you checked/treated him for ulcers? Especially since he is in training now, and if his eating habits have changed? Does he eat all of his hay? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | He has always been "picky" with this feed but it has gotten worse since he has been in training. I nver thought of that. I have never had to check/treat uclers. So dumb question.....do I call my vet? Suggestions? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Sure - that's a great place to start. They can scope for gastric ulcers,but lots of horses also will have hind gut ulcers, which won't show on a scope.
There are lots of great products on the market that will address gastric but not hind gut.
I chose to treat with THE's GastroPLUS which adresses both - I had fabulous results and couldn't have been happier. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | What is the best to get THE? Should I get him scoped just to be safe or just start him on that and see what happens? |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | PM Krystal Peterson (wyoming barrel racer) for THE Products. I wouldn't waste money scoping. Treatment is much cheaper and won't hurt him.
Edited by Murphy 2015-10-20 9:06 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | Ok thanks!!!!!! I would never though of ulcers! |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | You may also want to find out what mill your TC is coming from. Not all TC mills are ionophore free. I fed TC for years, but switched last year when I couldn't get a straight answer out of TC, and my mare was getting horribly sick from TC Senior.
https://www.facebook.com/Ionophoretoxicity?fref=nf |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | Ok. I will check. I hope it is ok. My senior horses are doing so good on TC complete. I have a had great results. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | As others mentioned, checking the ionophores and ulcers is a good place to start. What kind of condition is he in? Has he lost weight or bloom from not eating as much? If not, and everything checks out medically, then it probably wouldn't hurt to cut back on his grain. The less you can give them the better. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | He is great condition, he is kind of a round though. I can post a pic tonight when I get to the barn. He is a litte guy I would say less than 900 lbs. I have not taped him. He stands about 14.3. Last winter, he did lose some weight so I upped it this spring/summer and he gained it right back so I am worried about cutting back going into winter. He is being worked more often now too (at least 3 times a week, last winter I hardly worked him) I don't know if this make a differnce but when he eats, he likes to look around and takes forever. If I get another horse out to turn out, he wants to go too and will not finish. Latley, I have been leaving the other horses with him and after 45 mintues he is standing looking at me wanting out with about half of the feed left. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | Horrible pic but u get the idea of his size.
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| This summer I had my horses on triple crown complete it is all we can get other than sr and growth. I have always liked it in the past but this year I noticed they just didn't bloom on it. One mare had a terrible hair coat all brown and burned, she was also having an ulcer issue we worked on. I had two horses colic in 3 days and pulled them off the TC. I ordered Tribute feed on Amazon and started it, within 10 days my mare had blown all the brown burned hair and was so shiny, gained topline and was so excited to see me coming with her grain. We are now getting winter hair but they still look amazing. I am sold on this feed and she has been eating all her feed better. I would treat for ulcers to be sure and maybe try some new feed. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Murphy - 2015-10-20 9:05 AM PM Krystal Peterson (wyoming barrel racer) for THE Products. I wouldn't waste money scoping. Treatment is much cheaper and won't hurt him.
THIS ^^^ She is great to work with!! |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The low starch formula is pretty bland.. pellet.. it is actually
13% Protein and I think 6 or 8 fat.
Complete is 12% Protein and 10 fat.
but the NSC is higher ..
the senior is 12 protein and 10 fat.
but low NCS
He may just get tired of the bland ness of the Low starch.. mine wouldnt touch it.. the high fat wont make him hyper ..
but thats just a opinion to think about...they all could go on one feed.. Of course check the Mill it is coming from..
https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/articles/horse-food-carbohydrate-values-triple-crown-horsefood/
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-10-20 3:18 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | I am in the process of checking on the mill. It would be so much easier if I had all three on the same thing. If I did swtich him over to complete, how much should I feed him? My older two get 8lbs 2x a day, I know he won't need that much as they are hard keepers. He is four, less than 900lbs and gets moderate to high exercise at least 3 times a week. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Personally Id go Senior over complete due to high NCS.. but thats something to consider anyway.. check out that list i posted the link to. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | I did not see the link the first time! Thanks :) So the NCS would make that big of a differnce? The reason I ask, he is a had a bucking problem at first and still kinda bucks when I lunge him (I am hoping the ucler treatment helps with that too). We only have one feed store that carries TC and most of the time they are out of senior but have complete...... |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | there is a big differance between low starch and complete .. but not such a drastic change between Low starch and SR |
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| Hello barrelracincrazy!
We have checked out this thread and want to help with a feed recommendation. You have mentioned that your horse is an easy keeper (actually a bit round) and is only eating a few pounds of the Low Starch feed that you have been offering him , so we actually recommend that you move him over to the Triple Crown Lite which is a low fat, low carb, vitamin and mineral supplement. (a ration balancer). You feed at the rate of 1lb per 500lb of body weight. The average 1000lb horse eats 2lbs a day, but you can feed up to 4lbs of Lite daily . Since you mentioned you offered 6lbs of Low starch, which based on his possible body condition score, he really did not need to have that much feed. However, we want to make sure that he is getting his vitamin and mineral needs met which will be important for his overall health and the performance activities that you do with him. Lite is also a pelleted feed and this horse may be a bit picky about pelleted feeds in general. Let's face it, they definitely have a different smell and look than our textured feeds like Complete, but here is how you can feed the Lite with another feed and cover all needs. Since you have complete also, you could feed 1lb of the Lite and mix in 2-3lbs of the Complete. Lite remains your vitamin and mineral base and the Complete is bumped up or down as needed for your horse's body condition. I would recommend that you mix in a little bit of complete with the Low Starch that you feed now and see if he is "happy " to eat that. Just over a week or so bring in 1-2lbs. Then phase out the Low Starch for the 1lb of lite, again over just a week or so. 1lb of Lite is equal to 3 measuring cups by the way. This combination may work well and you can always keep that complete low if he does need to lose some weight. Lite is very low in NSC at 9.3% and as others have mentioned, complete is a bit higher in NSC, but you would mix the two products and not really be feeding a lot of Complete. If you feel he has some behavior issues while on that combo, that it may be a good idea to give him Senior instead of Complete because that feed is only 12% NSC. As others have mentioned, do look into why he doesn't eat his meals as you mentioned he has done this for a while. He could have ulcers or digestive upset, is he worried about his barn mates, explore those things. Do feed as much hay as possible. Triple Crown is happy to answer any questions or concerns that anyone may have. We can help find dealers or work on a feed program. We can be reached at 800-451-9916, by email at info@triplecrownfeed.com, on live chat (when we are live on our website) as well as many social media sites (facebook, twitter, instagram). We strive for great customer service so please don't hesitate to contact us!
-Jessica Drexler
Triple Crown Nutrition |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Disappointed that the ionophore issue was the only one not addressed in your response. Word is spreading rapidly, feed companies aren't going to be able to keep ignoring this much longer. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| tcnhorsefeed - 2015-10-22 8:51 AM
Hello barrelracincrazy!
We have checked out this thread and want to help with a feed recommendation. You have mentioned that your horse is an easy keeper (actually a bit round) and is only eating a few pounds of the Low Starch feed that you have been offering him , so we actually recommend that you move him over to the Triple Crown Lite which is a low fat, low carb, vitamin and mineral supplement. (a ration balancer). You feed at the rate of 1lb per 500lb of body weight. The average 1000lb horse eats 2lbs a day, but you can feed up to 4lbs of Lite daily . Since you mentioned you offered 6lbs of Low starch, which based on his possible body condition score, he really did not need to have that much feed. However, we want to make sure that he is getting his vitamin and mineral needs met which will be important for his overall health and the performance activities that you do with him. Lite is also a pelleted feed and this horse may be a bit picky about pelleted feeds in general. Let's face it, they definitely have a different smell and look than our textured feeds like Complete, but here is how you can feed the Lite with another feed and cover all needs. Since you have complete also, you could feed 1lb of the Lite and mix in 2-3lbs of the Complete. Lite remains your vitamin and mineral base and the Complete is bumped up or down as needed for your horse's body condition. I would recommend that you mix in a little bit of complete with the Low Starch that you feed now and see if he is "happy " to eat that. Just over a week or so bring in 1-2lbs. Then phase out the Low Starch for the 1lb of lite, again over just a week or so. 1lb of Lite is equal to 3 measuring cups by the way. This combination may work well and you can always keep that complete low if he does need to lose some weight. Lite is very low in NSC at 9.3% and as others have mentioned, complete is a bit higher in NSC, but you would mix the two products and not really be feeding a lot of Complete. If you feel he has some behavior issues while on that combo, that it may be a good idea to give him Senior instead of Complete because that feed is only 12% NSC. As others have mentioned, do look into why he doesn't eat his meals as you mentioned he has done this for a while. He could have ulcers or digestive upset, is he worried about his barn mates, explore those things. Do feed as much hay as possible. Triple Crown is happy to answer any questions or concerns that anyone may have. We can help find dealers or work on a feed program. We can be reached at 800-451-9916, by email at info@triplecrownfeed.com, on live chat (when we are live on our website) as well as many social media sites (facebook, twitter, instagram). We strive for great customer service so please don't hesitate to contact us!
-Jessica Drexler
Triple Crown Nutrition
Maybe you shouldnt let Nutrena bag your feed. Thats when it all went down hill with TC in my personal experience. The two mills used to supply feed to my area of the country ( Stockton and Casa Grande) are both Ionophore mills and thats why I quit feeding the TC a long time ago. Once you build a mill that only produces horse feed, and ingredients that never have been transported in contaminated trucks I will take a look at the products again. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | I am too. I pm'd her and have not had a response yet. It really scares me. Triple crown has done wonders for my horses and I do not want to switch feeds again with winter just around the corner. My older guy is hard to keep weight on and the complete has really really helped him. All my horses coats are so shiny and healthy. They all look better than ever....I am at a loss. |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | BamaCanChaser - 2015-10-22 3:06 PM Disappointed that the ionophore issue was the only one not addressed in your response. Word is spreading rapidly, feed companies aren't going to be able to keep ignoring this much longer.
Funny how that happens, isn't it!!! I was offered a free bag of TC for all of my troubles with it... no thanks. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Millington, TN | Wow this has really got me stressing out. I have done a litte research. So the million dollar question is, is there a feed out there that you know 100% is safe???? |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | FLITASTIC - 2015-10-22 2:19 PM tcnhorsefeed - 2015-10-22 8:51 AM Hello barrelracincrazy! We have checked out this thread and want to help with a feed recommendation. You have mentioned that your horse is an easy keeper (actually a bit round) and is only eating a few pounds of the Low Starch feed that you have been offering him , so we actually recommend that you move him over to the Triple Crown Lite which is a low fat, low carb, vitamin and mineral supplement. (a ration balancer). You feed at the rate of 1lb per 500lb of body weight. The average 1000lb horse eats 2lbs a day, but you can feed up to 4lbs of Lite daily . Since you mentioned you offered 6lbs of Low starch, which based on his possible body condition score, he really did not need to have that much feed. However, we want to make sure that he is getting his vitamin and mineral needs met which will be important for his overall health and the performance activities that you do with him. Lite is also a pelleted feed and this horse may be a bit picky about pelleted feeds in general. Let's face it, they definitely have a different smell and look than our textured feeds like Complete, but here is how you can feed the Lite with another feed and cover all needs. Since you have complete also, you could feed 1lb of the Lite and mix in 2-3lbs of the Complete. Lite remains your vitamin and mineral base and the Complete is bumped up or down as needed for your horse's body condition. I would recommend that you mix in a little bit of complete with the Low Starch that you feed now and see if he is "happy " to eat that. Just over a week or so bring in 1-2lbs. Then phase out the Low Starch for the 1lb of lite, again over just a week or so. 1lb of Lite is equal to 3 measuring cups by the way. This combination may work well and you can always keep that complete low if he does need to lose some weight. Lite is very low in NSC at 9.3% and as others have mentioned, complete is a bit higher in NSC, but you would mix the two products and not really be feeding a lot of Complete. If you feel he has some behavior issues while on that combo, that it may be a good idea to give him Senior instead of Complete because that feed is only 12% NSC. As others have mentioned, do look into why he doesn't eat his meals as you mentioned he has done this for a while. He could have ulcers or digestive upset, is he worried about his barn mates, explore those things. Do feed as much hay as possible. Triple Crown is happy to answer any questions or concerns that anyone may have. We can help find dealers or work on a feed program. We can be reached at 800-451-9916, by email at info@triplecrownfeed.com, on live chat (when we are live on our website) as well as many social media sites (facebook, twitter, instagram). We strive for great customer service so please don't hesitate to contact us! -Jessica Drexler Triple Crown Nutrition Maybe you shouldnt let Nutrena bag your feed. Thats when it all went down hill with TC in my personal experience. The two mills used to supply feed to my area of the country ( Stockton and Casa Grande ) are both Ionophore mills and thats why I quit feeding the TC a long time ago. Once you build a mill that only produces horse feed, and ingredients that never have been transported in contaminated trucks I will take a look at the products again.
When Nutrena started to mill TC is when I started to get consistency problems and when I got one bag that my horse ended up getting terrible gas and lost a considerable amount of weight within a few weeks when only given a total of 4 cups a day, I called it quits. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | barrelracincrazy - 2015-10-22 3:25 PM Wow this has really got me stressing out. I have done a litte research. So the million dollar question is, is there a feed out there that you know 100% is safe????
Purina is one . |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Bibliafarm - 2015-10-22 2:53 PM
barrelracincrazy - 2015-10-22 3:25 PM Wow this has really got me stressing out. I have done a litte research. So the million dollar question is, is there a feed out there that you know 100% is safe????
Purina is one .
The Purina that we used to buy herecame from a feed mill in Shreveport LA that produces cattle feed too. Every feed that you can buy in this area comes from a feed mill that produces cattle feed. I buy a feed from a mill that has been making feed since 1930. I like the feed and have few problems with it so guess I will continue to feed it.
Feed mills in this area which would include a huge part of Texas produce way more feed for cattle than horses so I seriously doubt they are going to cater exclusively to horse people.
Edited by streakysox 2015-10-22 8:28 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | streakysox - 2015-10-22 8:25 PM
Bibliafarm - 2015-10-22 2:53 PM
barrelracincrazy - 2015-10-22 3:25 PM Wow this has really got me stressing out. I have done a litte research. So the million dollar question is, is there a feed out there that you know 100% is safe????
Purina is one .
The Purina that we used to buy herecame from a feed mill in Shreveport LA that produces cattle feed too. Every feed that you can buy in this area comes from a feed mill that produces cattle feed. I buy a feed from a mill that has been making feed since 1930. I like the feed and have few problems with it so guess I will continue to feed it.
Feed mills in this area which would include a huge part of Texas produce way more feed for cattle than horses so I seriously doubt they are going to cater exclusively to horse people.
I thought the Shreveport plant was listed specifically as a "free" plant. . . . Scared cause that's where mine comes from
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2015-10-22 8:36 PM
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Its my understanding they have 2 seperate facilities and its on another thread stating that.. one building for cattle and other and one for Equine |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-22 9:15 PM
Its my understanding they have 2 seperate facilities and its on another thread stating that.. one building for cattle and other and one for Equine
That's what I thought too. After I posted I remembered that I emailed Purina and was told exactly what you just said. So I feel ok again! But it's sad that any of us as consumers have to go thru this rather than just being able to trust that the feed companies have our horses' best interests at heart. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | streakysox - 2015-10-22 9:25 PM Bibliafarm - 2015-10-22 2:53 PM barrelracincrazy - 2015-10-22 3:25 PM Wow this has really got me stressing out. I have done a litte research. So the million dollar question is, is there a feed out there that you know 100% is safe???? Purina is one . The Purina that we used to buy herecame from a feed mill in Shreveport LA that produces cattle feed too. Every feed that you can buy in this area comes from a feed mill that produces cattle feed. I buy a feed from a mill that has been making feed since 1930. I like the feed and have few problems with it so guess I will continue to feed it. Feed mills in this area which would include a huge part of Texas produce way more feed for cattle than horses so I seriously doubt they are going to cater exclusively to horse people.
An ionophore-free manufacturing system is not the same as an ionophore-safe manufacturing system. “Free” means ionophores are not used in any feeds that may be manufactured in that system.
Some cattle feeds may be manufactured in a “free” system if the formula does not contain ionophores. “Safe” means that some cattle feeds containing ionophores in the formula
will be run on a system; however, a series of flushes are implemented before the system
is used to produce horse feeds. For instance, when cattle feeds containing ionophores are
run on a system, at least one batch of non-ionophore cattle feed is run through the system
in order to flush any remaining ionophore from the system before any horse feed is run through it.
Regardless of the flushing procedure, there is always a risk of ionophore contamination of horse feed manufactured on “safe” systems. In short, horse feed should be manufactured on ionophore “free” manufacturing systems. Purina only manufactures horse feed in ionophore-free systems.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-10-22 9:29 PM
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 Color My World
Posts: 4940
Location: My perfect world bubble | My 4 yr old OTTB was on Senior and caught a virus a couple months ago and went off his feed. Couldn't get him to eat the Senior again after that - switched to Complete and he gobbles it up. Our entire barn (40+ horses) were on Safe Choice. We switched to Triple Crown feeds early this year and the horses look awesome. Couldn't be happier! |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I believe about one hour from you is jackson tenn? Check that mill for tribute feeds.we feed kalm ultra and love it.there are several that have changed to tribute feeds and even tho the mill is an hour away...I bet you pay less per bag. |
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | These companies either A) do not process medicated feed at all of B) process their medicated cattle feed in separate facilities from their horse feed.
Purina
Seminole
Renew Gold
Total Equine
Standlee Hay
Manna Pro
Blue Bonnett
Buckeye
Red River Feeds
Woody's Feeds
Tribute
Danco Forage
Edited by BamaCanChaser 2015-10-26 11:11 AM
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