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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | He was a furturity and rodeo horse. He got hurt. Healed and was ran a couple times and then turned out for 5yrs due to owner quit riding before I bought him. I got him in late May early June and he gets long trotted every day or at least every other day. I've posted about him before. Since then he's seen 3 vets. Nothing at all wrong with him. The performance vet injected a few things but he said nothing was major. He told me to put him back on the Red Cell and alfalfa which I did. He gave me Ventipolmin(I think is how you spell it) syrip to give him before a run. Still won't run. I'm running him dry now cause I don't know what else to do/give. I've tried sprinting. I've tried not warming up much... We lope 3 circles each direction and walk a lot. He is just very unmotivated. Any more suggestions? I don't know what else to do.
Edited by TessBelle 2015-10-31 6:47 AM
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| Maybe he just isn't interested in it anymore. Sometimes just doing something different is what they want. |
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | burning ember - 2015-10-28 1:17 PM
Maybe he just isn't interested in it anymore. Sometimes just doing something different is what they want.
I thought about that. But he still acts excited and wants to go just doesn't run. He would make a great kids horse so I'm gonna keep him either way but I would like for him to make me a rodeo horse. |
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 Expert
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| Have you entered him in any rodeos? performances? I have one that WILL NOT fire at jackpots UNLESS I enter him in a rodeo every four or five. He comes home from rodeoing and really really runs...top of the 1d times....otherwise we are running 3d times at best against the same girls. I have had a lot of unmotivated horses wake up and start firing and enjoying their job after hitting a few rodeos. Maybe he's just bored :) Try it...let us know how it goes~ |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Could he be a bleeder.....M |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | MOTIVATED - 2015-10-28 1:27 PM Have you entered him in any rodeos? performances? I have one that WILL NOT fire at jackpots UNLESS I enter him in a rodeo every four or five. He comes home from rodeoing and really really runs...top of the 1d times....otherwise we are running 3d times at best against the same girls. I have had a lot of unmotivated horses wake up and start firing and enjoying their job after hitting a few rodeos. Maybe he's just bored :) Try it...let us know how it goes~
^^^^THIS....IF he vets clean.....try some cattle events..... |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | mruggles - 2015-10-28 1:34 PM
Could he be a bleeder.....M
Nope the performance vet scooped him to make sure he wasn't.
Edited by TessBelle 2015-10-28 1:39 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I wanted to try B12 shots but the vet didn't think much of that. Said it wasn't as safe as other methods. I don't want to do anything unsafe. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Maybe there was another reason horse was turned out for 5 years.. and never rodeod on again.. :)what type injury? |
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Expert
Posts: 1525
| NJJ - 2015-10-28 1:38 PM MOTIVATED - 2015-10-28 1:27 PM Have you entered him in any rodeos? performances? I have one that WILL NOT fire at jackpots UNLESS I enter him in a rodeo every four or five. He comes home from rodeoing and really really runs...top of the 1d times....otherwise we are running 3d times at best against the same girls. I have had a lot of unmotivated horses wake up and start firing and enjoying their job after hitting a few rodeos. Maybe he's just bored :) Try it...let us know how it goes~ ^^^^THIS....IF he vets clean.....try some cattle events.....
yep, give him something to chase for a while....that helps too! |
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-28 1:43 PM
Maybe there was another reason horse was turned out for 5 years.. and never rodeod on again.. :)what type injury?
He was tied to the previous owners trailer and the peoples beside her dog got loose and ran under the trailer and spooked him. Somehow he ended up under the trailer. He was cut up really bad but one leg was worse than everything else. He cut his knee very very bad and cut either a tendon or ligament. Can't remember which she told me but the vet said that it wasn't a main one and it would heal after quite a lot of money and a lot of stall rest. I belive she told me she left him in a stall for 6 months. He's been xrayed and ultrasounds and the vets say it's healed. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | What are you feeding him other than Red Cell? Did his bloodwork come back normal for vitamins and minerals? |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Anniemae - 2015-10-28 2:11 PM
What are you feeding him other than Red Cell? Did his bloodwork come back normal for vitamins and minerals?
He gets TizWhiz Structure. It's all I can get. He get aloe Vera juice for ulcer preventative. All blood work was normal except his red blood cell count was a little high. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | TessBelle - 2015-10-28 12:15 PM Anniemae - 2015-10-28 2:11 PM What are you feeding him other than Red Cell? Did his bloodwork come back normal for vitamins and minerals? He gets TizWhiz Structure. It's all I can get. He get aloe Vera juice for ulcer preventative. All blood work was normal except his red blood cell count was a little high.
His red cell count is high and you have him on Red Cell?
I'm not familiar with that particular feed, is there something in it that you like? It looks like a bunch of filler and not much as far as nutrition goes, but I could be missing something.
Have you tried a vitamin supplement, veterinarian grade? Or adding some flax seed to his diet. Just some thoughts...
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | why is he on red cell then if his blood count is high and personally Id switch to a better feed. the ingredients dont look to good.. INGREDIENTS
Wheat Middlings, Soybean Hulls, Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Distillers Grains Dried, Mechanically Extruded Soybean Meal, Molasses, Beet Pulp Dried, Yeast Culture, Soybean Oil, Lignin Sulfonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite, d-Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate in Gelatin, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Proprionic Acid (a preservative), and Cobalt Carbonate
FEEDING DIRECTIONS
Horses should be fed as individuals to meet their needs of body weight and activity level. Feed up to 1lb of Tizwhiz Structure per 100lbs of the horse’s weight per day, adjusting to the quality of hay or pasture available. Body tape your horse and weigh the feed to ensure proper amounts.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-10-28 2:44 PM
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | How many runs have you made on him at this point?
First thing I would do is put him on a diet consisting of mostly alfalfa with a little whole oats added in for a medium to mix supplements. But lots of good quality alfalfa or Omnis cubes if you can get them. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Feed the fire back into him...definitely alfalfa and better (more) grain AND look closely at his shoe/trim job, especially the fronts can cause all kinds of trouble. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Here's an idea .... maybe he doesn't want to run and doesn't have the desire? Not every horse is going to do what you want them to do (performance wise) even if they're bred out the wa-zoo to do it.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| Time to ride the lightening.
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Location: Kansas | Have you gone to anyone that is a good trainer/rider for in person help or had a good rider ride him?
Their knowledge should help in determining rider issue, not running correctly or a physical issue. They might be able to help solve the problem
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-28 2:41 PM
why is he on red cell then if his blood count is high and personally Id switch to a better feed. the ingredients dont look to good.. INGREDIENTS
Wheat Middlings, Soybean Hulls, Ground Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Distillers Grains Dried, Mechanically Extruded Soybean Meal, Molasses, Beet Pulp Dried, Yeast Culture, Soybean Oil, Lignin Sulfonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite, d-Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate in Gelatin, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Proprionic Acid (a preservative), and Cobalt Carbonate
FEEDING DIRECTIONS
Horses should be fed as individuals to meet their needs of body weight and activity level. Feed up to 1lb of Tizwhiz Structure per 100lbs of the horse’s weight per day, adjusting to the quality of hay or pasture available. Body tape your horse and weigh the feed to ensure proper amounts.
I asked the same question about the cell count and the Red Cell. He said it wasn't high enough to really matter and he's not on a full dose. He only gets it to try to give him more fire. As far as feed. That's really about all I can get close to here. That or a 12% sweet feed. All 4 of my horses are on a free choice round bale and get it in there stalls. |
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Sangria - 2015-10-28 8:41 PM
Have you gone to anyone that is a good trainer/rider for in person help or had a good rider ride him?
Their knowledge should help in determining rider issue, not running correctly or a physical issue. They might be able to help solve the problem
I was just about to post about that.
Up until tonight just the person I bought him from. I went and rode with an older man tonight that everyone likes. He's in his late 70s but trained a couple AQHA world champions. Many many years ago. He says that he's watched over the years and the younger generations have made it more complicated than it has to be. He watched my video from Tuesdays run and found a lot wrong. Stuff I didn't even noticed until he pointed it out. Like going to the 3rd barrel I had my hand up in what I thought was the normal position but when we zoomed in on the video you could see my hands bouncing with the horses rhythm and every time they would bounce his head would come up slightly. He is very light mouthed so that's one problem. And he said my whole body position was wrong in between the barrels. He said instead of leaning more forward I'm sitting straight up board stiff. He said my feet was saying go but my body was saying whoa. BUT the very first thing he did was take my whip from me lol. He said I had no need for it right now. Because I'm whipping but pulling back at the same time.
Edited by TessBelle 2015-10-28 9:17 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | TessBelle - 2015-10-28 10:15 PM
Sangria - 2015-10-28 8:41 PM
Have you gone to anyone that is a good trainer/rider for in person help or had a good rider ride him?
Their knowledge should help in determining rider issue, not running correctly or a physical issue. They might be able to help solve the problem
I was just about to post about that.
Up until tonight just the person I bought him from. I went and rode with an older man tonight that everyone likes. He's in his late 70s but trained a couple AQHA world champions. Many many years ago. He says that he's watched over the years and the younger generations have made it more complicated than it has to be. He watched my video from Tuesdays run and found a lot wrong. Stuff I didn't even noticed until he pointed it out. Like going to the 3rd barrel I had my hand up in what I thought was the normal position but when we zoomed in on the video you could see my hands bouncing with the horses rhythm and every time they would bounce his head would come up slightly. He is very light mouthed so that's one problem. And he said my whole body position was wrong in between the barrels. He said instead of leaning more forward I'm sitting straight up board stiff. He said my feet was saying go but my body was saying whoa. BUT the very first thing he did was take my whip from me lol. He said I had no need for it right now. Because I'm whipping but pulling back at the same time.
What city and state are you in? Surely someone has different feed? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I would get him on Ultium feed,Alfalfa and Timothy Hay. And I would try CurOst Total Care. It could be ulcers or maybe his gut isn't functioning like it should and he is not processing his feed. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| readytorodeo - 2015-10-29 6:57 AM
I would get him on Ultium feed,Alfalfa and Timothy Hay. And I would try CurOst Total Care. It could be ulcers or maybe his gut isn't functioning like it should and he is not processing his feed.
How about she fixes her before she starts throwing gimmicks and hoodoo voodoo at the horse.
She clearly stated like three posts before yours that she had identified some issues with her ridding that could be causing the problem but you were so interested in pushing product that you didn't even read that.
Did you?
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Central Texas | I'm not pushing a product but just wanted to share my feed experience. Great that you've identified what more than likely is the problem which are some riding issues. Goodness knows, I can relate to that and so can my poor horses. My horses were doing ok but I noticed that they just didn't have that bloom or spark, so after hearing about quite a few switching to oats and a good vitamin/mineral supplement, I jumped on the band wagon. My horses have never looked better (vet and her assistant even says so and they've seem all my horses for years). I feed that, MSM and a good quality hay, absolutely no concentrated feed. Doing this has actually saved me money in feed and made feeding a lot simplier. I think you're on the right track with making the changes with some of the riding issues and I bet if you get some good quality feed started you will be on track to having a healthy, happy, running horse. Good luck! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| My guess is after the pilot error is fixed, his speed should increase. Most of the time the problem is either soreness which you have rules out, or pilot error.
The other thing I would do is quit riding each day, once my horses are in shape, I only ride 3 days/week then barrel races.
My vet has said horses need two consecutative days of rest each week to help revitalize and regenerate damaged tissue. If you are not doing this the horse may not have any left in the tank |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | There's a chance, a real chance, that the high RBC count is artifact.
When animals are dehydrated their RBC counts artificially look higher because the blood is more concentrated.
Also, horses have a huge RBC reserve in the spleen, so if he was stressed at all he could have contracted his spleen and released RBCs.
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I don't think anyone is trying to push voodoo gimmicks, just sharing our experiences on how we get our horses feeling their best, and diet is a huge factor in that, as is digestion and the assimilation of nutrients. I know if I sit around and eat cupcakes all day, I don't have alot of energy to get up and work or sprint around.
Secondly, the reason I asked how many runs the OP has made on this horse is two fold. 1.) Fast twitch muscles must be exercised and developed after a layoff, and there is only one way we can condition those muscles to be reactive and that is through competitive type run situations. Whether that be rollbacks, runs at home, or competitive runs, the only way to work fast twitch muscle is to duplicate the action...run, turn, fire out....repeatedly, no different than how a human sprinter's work out regimen. We don't work fast twitch muscle fiber with long trotting and loping circles, but rather through event specific exercise and training. Top speed can't be changed.....we are born with what we have....however quickness and agility can absolutley be improved upon through specific exercise. This is proven in human physiolgy and sport science day in and day out. 2.) Many horses take several runs not only to get their fast twitch muscles back firing and also to get their brain back firing at the intensity it needs to, after all, it's a muscle too.
If the horse is showing signs he doesn't want to be a barrel horse by refusing the gate, refusing a turn, running up the fence, etc, then sure, I say it's time to give him another job, but if he's going in wanting to work and just isn't snappy or isn't shutting the clock off, there are ways to improve upon that through event specific exercise to get redevelop and exercise fast twitch muscle, improve diet to reduce sugars, synthetics, and other performance debilitating ingredients, and getting the gut working properly so the horse is able to actually utilize what is being fed. If that's voodoo and gimmicks, then go ahead and shove a bone through my nose and give me some chicken feet and bat wings so I can start mixing my potion....
Edited by Herbie 2015-10-29 9:32 AM
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Id get him off red cell, Id put him on a good nutritional diet and alfalfa hay and Id let a trainer work him.. and see what happens for 30 days.
Id also get off him ( remove leg pressure and any pressure and let him run ) and out of his way ..be light in all aspects.. some horses dont Go with alot of pressure .. they shut down. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | Have you tried breezing him or sprinting him with or without another horse beside him? I would do that, then I would try running barrels on him in a hackamore, since you say he is light-mouthed. |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | shaunar - 2015-10-29 8:54 AM
Have you tried breezing him or sprinting him with or without another horse beside him? I would do that, then I would try running barrels on him in a hackamore, since you say he is light-mouthed.
I did breeze him for a while to help build up his lungs but now that he's in good shape I don't do it but maybe once or twice a month. He runs in a O ring combo with a Mullen mouth. |
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| I give my mare 10cc of B12 before i run her. Its just a vitamin, nothing dangerous. Some horses are low on it anyways. |
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9884
Location: Missouri | I think it's awesome you got help with your riding style!!!!! I myself suffer from equitation barrels, lol. My body doesn't say GO! I tossed my whip along time ago because I was sitting back while trying to whip behind me. Your shoulders naturally turn when you reach behind you to whip and that funnels down to your seat.
I agree with alot of what the old timer told you and I'm very impressed that being told you are out of position doesn't **** you off.
If this horse was being ridden by someone who's body does say GO you might see a big difference. Would you be willing to let someone else run him for a while? While you work on yourself? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| arion - 2015-10-29 7:04 AM readytorodeo - 2015-10-29 6:57 AM I would get him on Ultium feed,Alfalfa and Timothy Hay. And I would try CurOst Total Care. It could be ulcers or maybe his gut isn't functioning like it should and he is not processing his feed. How about she fixes her before she starts throwing gimmicks and hoodoo voodoo at the horse. She clearly stated like three posts before yours that she had identified some issues with her ridding that could be causing the problem but you were so interested in pushing product that you didn't even read that. Did you?
I'm not pushing gimmicks or a product. And yes I did read her posts. And I don't sell CurOst. So your way off base. In case you don't know, ulcers can cause a horse not to want to run. That was all I was doing was suggesting it could be ulcers. Horse was not scoped for that was he?
Edited by readytorodeo 2015-10-29 4:31 PM
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Miracle in the Making
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| did you every think he does not want to? marie sheoard not all horses want to run barrels maybe he hates it
and if he doesnot want to you can not force him too |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | To answer some questions... No he isn't a bleeder. He doesn't have ulcers. Both were scoped for. Physically there is nothing wrong with him. A few mentioned that maybe he hates it. I have owned one that absolutely despised running. I bought him that way and wasn't told he was blown up. There is a night and day difference. Blown up horse did everything in his power not to have to run. Anything from darting away from the gate to freezing up in the alley to rearing and flipping over(that's when I had had enough of him). Sold him and he's made a great roping horse. My current horse is nothing like that. He doesn't offer to refuse to go in or turn. He even gets a little excited and dances going in. He just doesn't clock. IM NOT giving him anything until I fix my riding problems.
Now for the results of tonight's run. I leaned forward put my hand up on his neck kissed and left him the heck alone like I was told. He did run better a lot better but also creamed the 2nd barrel. I bought him in June and have ran him 3-4 times a month since and have only hit a barrel once and that was because he slipped really bad and caught himself and came back up into it. So not really sure where to go from here but will defenatly get help. But I would rather have a slower consistent horse than one that's fast but hits barrels n |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| TessBelle - 2015-10-31 2:14 AM
To answer some questions... No he isn't a bleeder. He doesn't have ulcers. Both were scoped for. Physically there is nothing wrong with him. A few mentioned that maybe he hates it. I have owned one that absolutely despised running. I bought him that way and wasn't told he was blown up. There is a night and day difference. Blown up horse did everything in his power not to have to run. Anything from darting away from the gate to freezing up in the alley to rearing and flipping over(that's when I had had enough of him). Sold him and he's made a great roping horse. My current horse is nothing like that. He doesn't offer to refuse to go in or turn. He even gets a little excited and dances going in. He just doesn't clock. IM NOT giving him anything until I fix my riding problems.
Now for the results of tonight's run. I leaned forward put my hand up on his neck kissed and left him the heck alone like I was told. He did run better a lot better but also creamed the 2nd barrel. I bought him in June and have ran him 3-4 times a month since and have only hit a barrel once and that was because he slipped really bad and caught himself and came back up into it. So not really sure where to go from here but will defenatly get help. But I would rather have a slower consistent horse than one that's fast but hits barrels n
He hit a barrel, oh well, it is one barrel, don't over think it.
When I have a horse hit a barrel, yes it sucks, but I don't let the one barrel change my behaviour. If I start hitting more then it has become a habit.
Chances are now that you are going faster, you sat too soon on your barrel causing the horse to turn and hit it.
When we add speed sometimes our timing will be off, or we think the barrel is coming too fast and panic then do everything wrong.
If you videod it, please have someone dissect it with you so you can see the good and the bad, this way you will be able to pick apart your own runs at a later time |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | cheryl makofka - 2015-10-31 9:01 AM
TessBelle - 2015-10-31 2:14 AM
To answer some questions... No he isn't a bleeder. He doesn't have ulcers. Both were scoped for. Physically there is nothing wrong with him. A few mentioned that maybe he hates it. I have owned one that absolutely despised running. I bought him that way and wasn't told he was blown up. There is a night and day difference. Blown up horse did everything in his power not to have to run. Anything from darting away from the gate to freezing up in the alley to rearing and flipping over(that's when I had had enough of him). Sold him and he's made a great roping horse. My current horse is nothing like that. He doesn't offer to refuse to go in or turn. He even gets a little excited and dances going in. He just doesn't clock. IM NOT giving him anything until I fix my riding problems.
Now for the results of tonight's run. I leaned forward put my hand up on his neck kissed and left him the heck alone like I was told. He did run better a lot better but also creamed the 2nd barrel. I bought him in June and have ran him 3-4 times a month since and have only hit a barrel once and that was because he slipped really bad and caught himself and came back up into it. So not really sure where to go from here but will defenatly get help. But I would rather have a slower consistent horse than one that's fast but hits barrels n
He hit a barrel, oh well, it is one barrel, don't over think it.
When I have a horse hit a barrel, yes it sucks, but I don't let the one barrel change my behaviour. If I start hitting more then it has become a habit.
Chances are now that you are going faster, you sat too soon on your barrel causing the horse to turn and hit it.
When we add speed sometimes our timing will be off, or we think the barrel is coming too fast and panic then do everything wrong.
If you videod it, please have someone dissect it with you so you can see the good and the bad, this way you will be able to pick apart your own runs at a later time
I'm not going make a big deal over one barrel. It was just a $250 barrel and my time would have qualified me for the short go. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | If he added a new gear you may not be used to the speed and were a bit late with the cues for the rate/pocket/turn signals. Just keep at it a bit longer and see how it goes. You aren't going to change your old habits over night so give yourself some room for error the next few runs and keep on improving yourself.
Best of luck :) |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have not read all what was said just what you posted, sounds like he just dont have the heart to be running barrels and all the good feed and supplements in the world will not change that, could he just be a pleasure horse for someone to trail ride are just do play days on? If so I would just sell him to someone that likes to just have fun on and find you a barrel horse that wants to work.
Maybe he was hurt worst then what every body is thinking and he just needs to find someone that just like's to poke around on.
Not all horses were meant to run.  |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | May I suggest you take him off the round bale. Lot's of chance to have chronic inflammation occur. Have a BAL done to rule out the bleeding. Not all bleeders show inflammation or blood in the airways post a bleed. If you send me his blood work I can tell you if he's "over trained" its very easy to over do. If I don't follow blood work patterns I will tend to overtrain and my horses won't fire.
You said you didn't want to give anything till you fixed your riding. While your fixing your end of the puzzle I would try some caco iron, Vit B12, B vit complex and some Vit C. Ask your vet to jug him and go back to working on your end of the equation. As your working him for the next couple of weeks you should feel a different horse under you. If not then the real possibility is ulcers as others have mentioned. Remember you can't see colonic ulcers and they are a bear to fix. I had a horse that only one product would help him., Had a friend that was going to her first NFR having issues late into the season and told her to try the succeed and bam it was the key. They won the Average that year. I find horses fascinating when it comes to helping them to perform to their best level. Take good notes keep a jpournal and go about eliminating the causes. |
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Rodeo horse STILL won't run... UPDATE