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Doggy Diaper Designer
Posts: 2322
 
Location: WI | After reading the tear drop post, it got me thinking. Everyone says that you should do the pattern that works best for your horse.
Well, how do you know which method to train one with if they are not trained to know their style?
This is something I just can't make a decision on. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I find the horse just tell you how they are going to turn, you just need to listen.
I had one who was average build, little front end heavy, did everything she was asked at a walk and a trot, as soon as we started loping, she started running/loping more like Sharon Camarillo and less like Ed wright style.
I have a 3 yr old right now beginning to lope the pattern, even at a trot, I had an inkling what her turning style was going to be, at a lope she is already turning like stingray and dinero (mine is a daughter of dinero) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I agree with Cheryl, I can sort of tell just by riding them and teaching them the basics how they're going to turn a barrel, I may start them one way and if that doesn't work, I try it a different way.
My round horse I like to work square and my square horse I like to work round.
My filly right now moves very stiff and snappy soI put extra bend and flex on her. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | I think it's pretty simple actually. Keep the same distance around all three barrels (close) and run really fast in between. The barrels are the easy part. :)
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Veteran
Posts: 171
| Each horse is their own unique individual just as we are.
I have ridden and trained many horses, and you just listen to what they tell, they each develop their own style.
We can try to shape them or try to mold them into what we think or our riding style but in my experience they each find their own way to fit their abilities for the turn, or what is comfortable for them.
Good Luck.
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | grinandbareit - 2015-10-31 1:32 AM I think it's pretty simple actually. Keep the same distance around all three barrels (close) and run really fast in between. The barrels are the easy part. :)
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | canchaserdelux - 2015-10-31 2:10 AM Each horse is their own unique individual just as we are. I have ridden and trained many horses, and you just listen to what they tell, they each develop their own style. We can try to shape them or try to mold them into what we think or our riding style but in my experience they each find their own way to fit their abilities for the turn, or what is comfortable for them. Good Luck.
And, a good rider lets the horse express his style. "I" adapt to the horse. |
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Location: South Dakota | grinandbareit - 2015-10-31 1:32 AM I think it's pretty simple actually. Keep the same distance around all three barrels (close) and run really fast in between. The barrels are the easy part. :)
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I hope I don't offend anyone but the teardrop is the most efficient way to run barrels. All horses can run this type of pattern with small adaptions. If you train your horse so that you have total control of the shoulders and hips, you are going to have a horse that runs this type of pattern. Martha Josey developed this method nearly 50 years ago. Lynn McKenzie worked for the Joseys. Vickie and Danny Reinhardt also worked for Joseys. Martha's style has been very successful. I have known Martha since 1964 and as far as success, not many people can compare. Everyone around here runs this way (Marshall TX) and if you watch the pro girls that are winning, they run this way. Someone posted a video on facebook and said it was a true rollback style. It was 4 small turns around the barrel. That is not a rollback style. It is a 4 X 4 style which is a modified teardrop. One of the best benefits of the teardrop style is that you have control of your horse through the entire turn. You don't hit barrels. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I agree to,the above poster. I have also trained many. Mine dont hit barrels. My retired mare i ran for 10 years i bet i did not hit 15 barrels in her running years.
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Doggy Diaper Designer
Posts: 2322
Location: WI | I don't agree or disagree. I don't know what I think. What I am wondering is why/ how is it more efficient then running equal distance around the barrel? |
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Doggy Diaper Designer
Posts: 2322
Location: WI | What are some horses that run this style? I'd like to watch some videos to compare to round turns |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Try youtube and put in Lynn Mckenzie. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| stef73433 - 2015-10-31 7:21 PM
I don't agree or disagree. I don't know what I think. What I am wondering is why/ how is it more efficient then running equal distance around the barrel?
I may be totally off, just brainstorming here: when watching the NFR they will give you a shot of the horses coming off the first and it seems to me like the ones that turn rounder SOMETIMES bow off a little and really have to work to get over for the second, but the ones that go straighter, longer look like they leave the first in better position going to the 2nd. It seems to me that is more like the ground doesnt hold for the rounder turning horses.
This could end up being a great discussion! |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| stef73433 - 2015-10-31 7:23 PM
What are some horses that run this style? I'd like to watch some videos to compare to round turns
My internet is not being cooperative today. I guess no one has told Verison it is 2015. I would put some links to youtube but that is not happening. Search youtube for Jr Genuine Doc ans Mesa Levitt. Janet Stoker on Hotshot at the NFR. The Steinhof kids on Hotshot. Lisa Lockhart on An Oakie With Cash--Louie. I am sure that Fallon Taylor runs that way. Lindsey Sears on Martha at the NFR. Blaise Bercegeay and Redman Bay or Little Oakie Dash, both of these two of Blaise's horses came from Joseys. |
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Doggy Diaper Designer
Posts: 2322
Location: WI | Ok. Who are the 4*4 horses to Google? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| GLP - 2015-10-31 7:46 PM stef73433 - 2015-10-31 7:21 PM I don't agree or disagree. I don't know what I think. What I am wondering is why/ how is it more efficient then running equal distance around the barrel? I may be totally off, just brainstorming here: when watching the NFR they will give you a shot of the horses coming off the first and it seems to me like the ones that turn rounder SOMETIMES bow off a little and really have to work to get over for the second, but the ones that go straighter, longer look like they leave the first in better position going to the 2nd. It seems to me that is more like the ground doesnt hold for the rounder turning horses. This could end up being a great discussion!
I tend to agree.
I think FT had a video on her blog/facebook a while back talking about how she made changes to her approach to the first especially for the NFR setup. It was actually really interesting. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | streakysox - 2015-10-31 4:54 PM I hope I don't offend anyone but the teardrop is the most efficient way to run barrels. All horses can run this type of pattern with small adaptions. If you train your horse so that you have total control of the shoulders and hips, you are going to have a horse that runs this type of pattern. Martha Josey developed this method nearly 50 years ago. Lynn McKenzie worked for the Joseys. Vickie and Danny Reinhardt also worked for Joseys. Martha's style has been very successful. I have known Martha since 1964 and as far as success, not many people can compare. Everyone around here runs this way (Marshall TX) and if you watch the pro girls that are winning, they run this way. Someone posted a video on facebook and said it was a true rollback style. It was 4 small turns around the barrel. That is not a rollback style. It is a 4 X 4 style which is a modified teardrop. One of the best benefits of the teardrop style is that you have control of your horse through the entire turn. You don't hit barrels.
I totally agree and have trained this way forever. I had the privilege to haul with Martha and she stayed at our house when she was running CB Reed. Martha and I worked on different turns and approaches and I have tried many other ways but have found for myself this to be the easiest and quickest way to get around a barrel. I have back problems on and off and this is also the easiest on my bad back. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | So question, what style is Sherry Cervis turns?? |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| *almost there* - 2015-11-01 12:36 PM
So question, what style is Sherry Cervis turns??
Sherry runs an adapted tear drop. I would say that Stingray is sort of 4 x 4. As I said most pro girls run some form of the year drop.
Edited by streakysox 2015-11-01 3:14 PM
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | canchaserdelux - 2015-10-30 3:10 AM
Each horse is their own unique individual just as we are.
I have ridden and trained many horses, and you just listen to what they tell, they each develop their own style.
We can try to shape them or try to mold them into what we think or our riding style but in my experience they each find their own way to fit their abilities for the turn, or what is comfortable for them.
Good Luck.
Truth |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I suggest that you ride the way that works best for you. I am sure you will be fine.
I have always tried to emulate the people who were beating the other 600, 800, or 1000 runners at these bigger barrel races since many of them live in this area and I have to run against them. A small barrel race around here is at least 250. |
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Doggy Diaper Designer
Posts: 2322
Location: WI | I'm trying to figure out what works best, that's the idea of this post. I've not been riding and hauling much the past five years and I feel like I'm basically starting over |
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 Veteran
Posts: 212
| following... I am interested. What other turning styles besides tear drop or 4x4 or rollback are there? and who is good to watch for a rollback style |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| This is what Ed Wright told us at a clinic many years ago; he thought that the rollback was probably fractionally faster BUT it was much harder to leave all 3 barrels up, so he and Martha rode and taught their way which seems to me was a rounder turn. He felt that if you had a rounder more forward turn, you could keep that hip from hitting the barrel as you left it and also avoid shoulder dropping. Mind you, this was in the early 90's, so he may have changed by now. He had no problem helping those of us who had rollback horses, and he did improve those horses, too.
He felt that the rollback horse left no room for error and the rounder turning style was more forgiving, in a nutshell.
Edited by GLP 2015-11-02 10:46 AM
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | alp341 - 2015-11-01 11:31 AM
following... I am interested. What other turning styles besides tear drop or 4x4 or rollback are there? and who is good to watch for a rollback style
My opinion on the roll back style is it is the horse.......and their conformation.......one of my mares is a roll back style I will never get her to be any other she is as stiff as a board......I consider the roll backs to be more like reining horses....which is what she reminds me......and there is usually no forgiveness with roll back style.....
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | GLP - 2015-11-01 11:44 AM
This is what Ed Wright told us at a clinic many years ago; he thought that the rollback was probably fractionally faster BUT it was much harder to leave all 3 barrels up, so he and Martha rode and taught their way which seems to me was a rounder turn. He felt that if you had a rounder more forward turn, you could keep that hip from hitting the barrel as you left it and also avoid shoulder dropping. Mind you, this was in the early 90's, so he may have changed by now. He had no problem helping those of us who had rollback horses, and he did improve those horses, too.
He felt that the rollback horse left no room for error and the rounder turning style was more forgiving, in a nutshell.
Truth! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 616
Location: Texas | CJE - 2015-11-01 9:35 PM
canchaserdelux - 2015-10-30 3:10 AM
Each horse is their own unique individual just as we are.
I have ridden and trained many horses, and you just listen to what they tell, they each develop their own style.
We can try to shape them or try to mold them into what we think or our riding style but in my experience they each find their own way to fit their abilities for the turn, or what is comfortable for them.
Good Luck.
Truth
I completely agree with this, if you ride enough different horses you will learn she is dead on about the different styles, and if you try to make then change it , it may hider them running barrels instead of help them
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 456
Location: SW MO | kickincans - 2015-11-02 1:06 PM
CJE - 2015-11-01 9:35 PM
canchaserdelux - 2015-10-30 3:10 AM
Each horse is their own unique individual just as we are.
I have ridden and trained many horses, and you just listen to what they tell, they each develop their own style.
We can try to shape them or try to mold them into what we think or our riding style but in my experience they each find their own way to fit their abilities for the turn, or what is comfortable for them.
Good Luck.
Truth
I completely agree with this, if you ride enough different horses you will learn she is dead on about the different styles, and if you try to make then change it , it may hider them running barrels instead of help them
It really can make a horse slow down if they are not comfortable in the turn. I use different tuning for different horses. I have a stiffer mare that doesn't work so much off her hind end that really didn't benefit by tuning her on the tear drop pattern. I switched her to the techniques Michelle Mcleod uses in her trainingbarrelhorses.com videos and my mare has really quickened her turns. I think that it is a lot of trial and error. I have all my runs videoed so I can see how my horse is moving around the turn and play to its strengths. Hope you find what works! |
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Spin off of the tear drop pattern post