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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
  
Location: Canada | A client of mine is looking at a mare for sale. Owners had purchased her from the breeder as a 6 year old for a reasonable price but by the sounds of it not what the breeder was hoping to get for her.
Anyways because the breeder didn't get what her asking price was she withheld the papers but gave them a bill of sale listed her name, her registered name, her sire, her dam (their registered names and numbers) and her (the breeder) signed the bill of sale.
The current owners had intended to keep the mare forever and were not interested in breeding so they weren't too worried about getting her papers.
Now she's for sale. As far as I knew it was "not acceptable" to withhold the papers (unless money was owing etc.) I tried calling AQHA yesterday but spent 20 minutes on hold and finally gave up.
Question is can we use the bill of sale which states all the required information as a way to start the process of duplicate papers (if client buys her). I'll contact the breeder first but I have a feeling it will be one of those for XYZ dollars I'll get you a set of papers. She's got some nice lines (nothing super fantastic) but if client buys her we'd like to obtain her papers.
Any ideas of how to go about it would be great. We'll try the breeder first but want to know if there is another route just in case.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Any person can pull the papers, if you do a search this has been discussed at length.
What is supposed to happen if the seller pulls the papers, is they are to notify aqha, and send the papers back to be disposed of.
Aqha is not to reissue the papers to the next buyer.
Try the breeder, otherwise everytime I have asked aqha about this, they have told me you are sol |
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| People are very brave over the phone .. so I would handle it this way ...
Start with the original transaction and leave your client out of it ..
Call AQHA and make sure mare is in seller//breeders name they bought her from without a word of why you want name and address ...
Have present owners fill out transfer papers using exact owner name AQHA has on their records and of course them as the buyers.
Mail in a large manila envelope to the sellers to sign highlighted in yellow with a check in the exact amount for registration only......>>> and in the pkg ... have another manila folder addressed to AQHA with postage on it for them to put the original papers and signed transfer in to mail to AQHA.
AND put a very nice short note in with it ... saying ... We just realized there were no original AQHA papers or signed transfer in with the Bill Of Sale for (mares name) and we would like to get her transferred to our names. (mares name) is such a nice mare and we love and enjoy her company... etc etc ..
make sure your contact info is on the note since a lot of people fail to look at the info on the transfer papers ...
Wait a week to give plenty of time for pkg to arrive at sellers .... if buers have not received a call or contact with the sellers ... give them a friendly call and inquire if they received the packet ... and tell them you appreciate them mailing them to AQHA for you before they get the chance to give a spiel about no papers or whatever .. then they may be happy to do it and hear update on the mare ... you never know ... lol
Make sure you keep a copy of everything you send the sellers for future reference and dates sent, date of phone call and response ...
GOOD LUCK .... reminder ... keep client out of it for now ... if you try to handle the above then do it as a friend of the buyers and not your client ... and for right now .. not as a trainer etc etc .. just be casual
GOOD LUCK .. it is when you don't expect to have a problem is when you have a problem ... lol
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-07 4:42 PM
People are very brave over the phone .. so I would handle it this way ...
Start with the original transaction and leave your client out of it ..
Call AQHA and make sure mare is in seller//breeders name they bought her from without a word of why you want name and address ...
Have present owners fill out transfer papers using exact owner name AQHA has on their records and of course them as the buyers.
Mail in a large manila envelope to the sellers to sign highlighted in yellow with a check in the exact amount for registration only......>>> and in the pkg ... have another manila folder addressed to AQHA with postage on it for them to put the original papers and signed transfer in to mail to AQHA.
AND put a very nice short note in with it ... saying ... We just realized there were no original AQHA papers or signed transfer in with the Bill Of Sale for (mares name) and we would like to get her transferred to our names. (mares name) is such a nice mare and we love and enjoy her company... etc etc ..
make sure your contact info is on the note since a lot of people fail to look at the info on the transfer papers ...
Wait a week to give plenty of time for pkg to arrive at sellers .... if buers have not received a call or contact with the sellers ... give them a friendly call and inquire if they received the packet ... and tell them you appreciate them mailing them to AQHA for you before they get the chance to give a spiel about no papers or whatever .. then they may be happy to do it and hear update on the mare ... you never know ... lol
Make sure you keep a copy of everything you send the sellers for future reference and dates sent, date of phone call and response ...
GOOD LUCK .... reminder ... keep client out of it for now ... if you try to handle the above then do it as a friend of the buyers and not your client ... and for right now .. not as a trainer etc etc .. just be casual
GOOD LUCK .. it is when you don't expect to have a problem is when you have a problem ... lol
Problem with this is if the horse is already registered, the check for the amount of registering won't be adequate. You would have to look into all costs.
If the papers are lost
The original owners will have to fill out a duplicate form, and I can't recall the cost on this, plus current photos of the horse.
Plus the original owners have to sign the transfer. |
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 Very Important Person
Posts: 5682
Location: South MS | Go to aqha Web & look up ownership record if you know registered name. Contact last known owner, asking nicely if the papers to horse would be provided, & if so, how to get them (how bad do you want horse?). May get lucky & get hold of papers. AQHA will say Sorry, SOL. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | The sellers originally bought the horse directly from the breeder as a 6 year old (she's nine now). I went through AQHA and verified that the mare was still in the breeders name and matched the information given to me by the current sellers.
I spoke with the sellers tonight and they paid full asking price for her as a six year old but for whatever reason the breeder said since you are only paying xyz dollars you won't get the papers. Instead she gave them a bill of sale with her name, the mare's name (registration number) sire and dam's name and their registration numbers.
We'd need to apply for a duplicate set of papers and transfer the mare to the current owners name then my clients name but was wondering if we could force the transfer without contacting the breeder since the breeder listed the mare as a registered quarter horse mare with her name and registration number on the bill of sale when she sold it to the current sellers.
ETA I think my client will likely see if she can strike a deal with the original breeder to obtain a duplicate set of papers.
Edited by RunNitroRun 2015-11-07 8:12 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I bet if you contact the person who has the papers and offer to pay what they are asking, they will probably be happy to send papers and transfer. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | I think the client should look at other horses and pass this one up. Going to be too much drama and work not to mention $$ to get the papers. There are LOTS of nice horses with papers available. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RunNitroRun - 2015-11-07 8:10 PM
The sellers originally bought the horse directly from the breeder as a 6 year old (she's nine now). I went through AQHA and verified that the mare was still in the breeders name and matched the information given to me by the current sellers.
I spoke with the sellers tonight and they paid full asking price for her as a six year old but for whatever reason the breeder said since you are only paying xyz dollars you won't get the papers. Instead she gave them a bill of sale with her name, the mare's name (registration number) sire and dam's name and their registration numbers.
We'd need to apply for a duplicate set of papers and transfer the mare to the current owners name then my clients name but was wondering if we could force the transfer without contacting the breeder since the breeder listed the mare as a registered quarter horse mare with her name and registration number on the bill of sale when she sold it to the current sellers.
ETA I think my client will likely see if she can strike a deal with the original breeder to obtain a duplicate set of papers.
You cannot force anyone to sign a transfer report.
Aqha can force them to return the papers,( they would do this to prevent matching papers with markings what horse traders have done over the years) but cannot transfer them into someone else's name with out the consent of the last documented owner. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| You can't just apply for another set of papers. Only the person in which the horse is registered can apply for duplicate papers. AQHA will not force someone to give a horse's papers up. What would be the point of having registered horses if the breed registry can take them back whenever they want? The people bought a horse without papers. That means the horse is NOT registered.
It is the seller's responsibility to transfer the papers. If AQHA contacts the breeder and breeder tells them that the horse was sold without papers that will be the end of communication. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2015-11-07 5:23 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-07 4:42 PM
People are very brave over the phone .. so I would handle it this way ...
Start with the original transaction and leave your client out of it ..
Call AQHA and make sure mare is in seller//breeders name they bought her from without a word of why you want name and address ...
Have present owners fill out transfer papers using exact owner name AQHA has on their records and of course them as the buyers.
Mail in a large manila envelope to the sellers to sign highlighted in yellow with a check in the exact amount for registration only......>>> and in the pkg ... have another manila folder addressed to AQHA with postage on it for them to put the original papers and signed transfer in to mail to AQHA.
AND put a very nice short note in with it ... saying ... We just realized there were no original AQHA papers or signed transfer in with the Bill Of Sale for (mares name) and we would like to get her transferred to our names. (mares name) is such a nice mare and we love and enjoy her company... etc etc ..
make sure your contact info is on the note since a lot of people fail to look at the info on the transfer papers ...
Wait a week to give plenty of time for pkg to arrive at sellers .... if buers have not received a call or contact with the sellers ... give them a friendly call and inquire if they received the packet ... and tell them you appreciate them mailing them to AQHA for you before they get the chance to give a spiel about no papers or whatever .. then they may be happy to do it and hear update on the mare ... you never know ... lol
Make sure you keep a copy of everything you send the sellers for future reference and dates sent, date of phone call and response ...
GOOD LUCK .... reminder ... keep client out of it for now ... if you try to handle the above then do it as a friend of the buyers and not your client ... and for right now .. not as a trainer etc etc .. just be casual
GOOD LUCK .. it is when you don't expect to have a problem is when you have a problem ... lol
Problem with this is if the horse is already registered, the check for the amount of registering won't be adequate. You would have to look into all costs.
If the papers are lost
The original owners will have to fill out a duplicate form, and I can't recall the cost on this, plus current photos of the horse.
Plus the original owners have to sign the transfer.
Did you not read my post??
It is a feeler to the breeders on what they will or can do and the check is only for the transfer fee $20 just in case they throw it in the trash .. no big deal ..... if they mail it in to AQHA and not enough funds ... AQHA WILL NOTIFY THE BUYER ...
You don't go looking to pick a fight when you want someone to do something for you !!
You will be amazed at how nicely people respond to a sensible request without a whole bunch of innuendos thrown in to aggravate them... you make any paperwork as easy as I stated ..sign the transfer .. stuff it and the original papers in the envelope and mail it ..... lol
Otherwise you will find out if you have lost papers, a belligerent breeder or a dumb buyer that paid less for a grade horse ....
auto correct is having fun tonight .... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-11-08 2:37 AM
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Your seventh grade reading level sucks so lower it to 5th. Comprende? I totally agree but obviously no one wants to read this.
As YOU know if the papers are not in order, I move on to the next horse. I APPRECIATE smooth transactions. Private joke....laughing.
Edited by streakysox 2015-11-08 10:41 AM
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | hotpaints - 2015-11-07 9:14 PM I think the client should look at other horses and pass this one up. Going to be too much drama and work not to mention $$ to get the papers. There are LOTS of nice horses with papers available.
This ^^ And am I the only person who didn't miss the point that the breeder didn't want this horse to have papers? What happened to an agreement, handshake deal, keeping your word? Shaking my head here. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-08 2:35 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-11-07 5:23 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-07 4:42 PM
People are very brave over the phone .. so I would handle it this way ...
Start with the original transaction and leave your client out of it ..
Call AQHA and make sure mare is in seller//breeders name they bought her from without a word of why you want name and address ...
Have present owners fill out transfer papers using exact owner name AQHA has on their records and of course them as the buyers.
Mail in a large manila envelope to the sellers to sign highlighted in yellow with a check in the exact amount for registration only......>>> and in the pkg ... have another manila folder addressed to AQHA with postage on it for them to put the original papers and signed transfer in to mail to AQHA.
AND put a very nice short note in with it ... saying ... We just realized there were no original AQHA papers or signed transfer in with the Bill Of Sale for (mares name) and we would like to get her transferred to our names. (mares name) is such a nice mare and we love and enjoy her company... etc etc ..
make sure your contact info is on the note since a lot of people fail to look at the info on the transfer papers ...
Wait a week to give plenty of time for pkg to arrive at sellers .... if buers have not received a call or contact with the sellers ... give them a friendly call and inquire if they received the packet ... and tell them you appreciate them mailing them to AQHA for you before they get the chance to give a spiel about no papers or whatever .. then they may be happy to do it and hear update on the mare ... you never know ... lol
Make sure you keep a copy of everything you send the sellers for future reference and dates sent, date of phone call and response ...
GOOD LUCK .... reminder ... keep client out of it for now ... if you try to handle the above then do it as a friend of the buyers and not your client ... and for right now .. not as a trainer etc etc .. just be casual
GOOD LUCK .. it is when you don't expect to have a problem is when you have a problem ... lol
Problem with this is if the horse is already registered, the check for the amount of registering won't be adequate. You would have to look into all costs.
If the papers are lost
The original owners will have to fill out a duplicate form, and I can't recall the cost on this, plus current photos of the horse.
Plus the original owners have to sign the transfer.
Did you not read my post??
It is a feeler to the breeders on what they will or can do and the check is only for the transfer fee $20 just in case they throw it in the trash .. no big deal ..... if they mail it in to AQHA and not enough funds ... AQHA WILL NOTIFY THE BUYER ...
You don't go looking to pick a fight when you want someone to do something for you !!
You will be amazed at how nicely people respond to a sensible request without a whole bunch of innuendos thrown in to aggravate them... you make any paperwork as easy as I stated ..sign the transfer .. stuff it and the original papers in the envelope and mail it ..... lol
Otherwise you will find out if you have lost papers, a belligerent breeder or a dumb buyer that paid less for a grade horse ....
auto correct is having fun tonight .... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I did read you post, you never said anything about sending the transfer money, you said registration fee. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | My client bought the horse because she is great as a grade mare or otherwise. Papers don't make a horse we all know that. If she never gets papers it doesn't matter its simply nice to know if she was selling in the future that she could prove her age.
She will be calling the breeder to see if can work out a deal and hopefully she can. If she can't that's life and she got a great horse regardless.
To those who didn't attack each other thanks for the help. To those stirring the pot ...I'll get popcorn and you can carry on.  |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| The bill of sale should have the information to prove age if that is what you want. You said it had name and reg number. It probably has age and surely must be dated as to date of sale. |
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AQHA Papers