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Regular
Posts: 81
| Anyone had good success after surgery ? Any suggestions on things to do during rehab and recovery period ? Suggestions to prevent it happening again or exercises? |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
  
| Havent done surgery but interested in responses. My gelding is managed right now with exercise and massage and meso but never know if it will manage it forever. |
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 Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | I think it depends on how severe it is. my horse was diagnosed last summer w/it. found it w/x rays and then did a bone scan to make sure it was just ks and nothing deeper. we did a series of injections on his back, i changed saddle and pad, and now do maintenance injections every few months. so far so good! I personnaly would not do back surgery unless the injections didnt work, but thats my own personal opinion. I know alot of people very happy w/the surgery and I would do it if the injections didnt work. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| Scheduling one for surgery in the next few weeks, 2 areas will need work. Saddle, injections, mesotherapy, nothing worked.
Will be a while before we can say it works, about 2 months on hand walk, then small pen turn out. Then another 2 months of just out in the pasture left alone. Should be able to start riding again in early April.
If anyone would find interest in me posting the process as it goes, I'll give it a try. Cliff Honnas in Bryan Texas is doing the procedure. Honnas is supposed to have a pretty good success rate for those that are good candidates. My fingers are crossed. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I had fantastic results. Mine, at the time in 2012, was the third worse spine that Honnas had ever worked on. Two weeks after surgery, his back pain was gone.
He came back running long 17s on a standard as previously a and felt great. He's retired now from arthritis in SI from years of compensating.
The sooner you treat KS the better off you'll be. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | chicks2 - 2015-11-14 2:51 PM
Scheduling one for surgery in the next few weeks, 2 areas will need work. Saddle, injections, mesotherapy, nothing worked.
Will be a while before we can say it works, about 2 months on hand walk, then small pen turn out. Then another 2 months of just out in the pasture left alone. Should be able to start riding again in early April.
If anyone would find interest in me posting the process as it goes, I'll give it a try. Cliff Honnas in Bryan Texas is doing the procedure. Honnas is supposed to have a pretty good success rate for those that are good candidates. My fingers are crossed.
Keep me posted on how he does |
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | I feel like I am the queen of KS! I officially have 3 of them. All 3 different ages, bloodlines and training level. My oldest one had surgery about 1.5 hrs ago and he has made a full recovery and I actually feel he came back stronger and is better than before. The second one diagnosed has been able to be maintained on injections so far. The latest one was just diAgnosed 2 days ago so we will see what happened. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | Has anyone found that a particular saddle brand has worked better for their KS horse? |
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Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | I have found that just find I g the saddle that fits best works as well as a good supportive pad. Many people use a CSI pad and I just bought one but really it's iust finding out what your horse is most comfortable with |
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Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | Tinkerbell - 2015-11-15 11:44 AM every saddle i tried on my horse was bridging him in front and behind where his KS is...I tried narrow, wide, just about every tree.....finally we found the #10 double j tree. with the bend in the tree it has, it finally stopped the bridging. and like another person already suggested, i invested in a CSI saddle pad. also, the BOT pad liners are awesome!
i have the BOT pad liner, great for winter riding to keep the back loose. When I got my mare i had her fitted and she has a Double J pro with a standard tree. about 9 months later we find KS. I've been looking at pics of her and it seems her back has changed shape some so now I'm worried about her saddle fit. Guess i'll send pics to double J and see if they think she needs a different tree I am currently riding in a 3/4" 5 star |
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Location: Stephenville, Texas | What were the symptoms of kissing spine ? |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| caracer - 2015-11-15 9:41 PM
What were the symptoms of kissing spine ?
Depends on the horse. My horse's was fairly minor but he is a total sissy in general. He was became extremely cinchy and was very tight over his lumbar area. On really bad days (rain/cold), you could barely brush him.
Other symptoms are cross firing, bucking, kicking out when mounting... |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I haven't done any research on this issue. What are the vets attributing "kissing spine" to? Conformation, saddle fit, conditioning? |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Tinkerbell - 2015-11-15 11:44 AM
every saddle i tried on my horse was bridging him in front and behind where his KS is...I tried narrow, wide, just about every tree.....finally we found the #10 double j tree. with the bend in the tree it has, it finally stopped the bridging. and like another person already suggested, i invested in a CSI saddle pad. also, the BOT pad liners are awesome!
Would you happen to have a confirmation picture of your horse?
I just sold my Double J w/ standard tree and have a "narrow #10" currently being made for my new mare... who happens to be built pretty similar to the gelding.. if anything is different she's a smidge bit wider. The gelding that was diagnosed with KS was originally in the standard tree and the vet said to get him out of it. Just wondering if maybe the narrow #10 would possibly be a fit for him as well. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | rachellyn80 - 2015-11-16 9:30 AM
I haven't done any research on this issue. What are the vets attributing "kissing spine" to? Conformation, saddle fit, conditioning?
In my case it was saddle fit from what I can tell. Possibly conditioning as well since he was coming back from EPM and his topline probably wasn't as strong as it could be... but these are just assumptions. Not something I've researched. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | caracer - 2015-11-15 10:41 PM What were the symptoms of kissing spine ?
My mare was diagnosed via x-rays by Rood & Riddle in October. Her symptoms were cinchiness, hestitancy to move when I first got on, would seem like she was wanting to "fold" when taking the first few steps, didn't want to lope or extend trot, grouchiness, flighty, and would crow hop around barrels.
I treated for everything under the sun, with no relief, which led me to Rood & Riddle. They diagnosed within an hour of me being there. I didn't even know what KS was until they told me about it. They injected two places in her back and she is now like a new mare. She's 18 years old.
As far as what causes it, my mare has a slight sway back, and she is older, so hers may be more arthritis driven. They say a lot of dressage horses have it, not because of anything they are doing, but because riders are more in tune with their horse's subtle movements. They say a horse not properly using themselves can cause it as well.
Here is the x-ray from my mare. You can clearly see a few vertebrae rubbing.
Edited by Murphy 2015-11-16 12:35 PM
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Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | rachellyn80 - 2015-11-16 9:30 AM I haven't done any research on this issue. What are the vets attributing "kissing spine" to? Conformation, saddle fit, conditioning?
Dr. Chris Ray which was ta ESMS at the time found my horse's KS. he said there are way more horses out there w/it than people think. like prob 1 in 7 from what hes seen over the years....it can be hereditary, from an accident, or ill fitting saddle from the research ive done. Im positive my horse was born w/it because prior to injections, hes been a bucker since he was broke. he bucked all the time and wasnt out of line for him to try to pile me in a run either. ive won a couple checks in runs where he bucked half the pattern, lol..........
being cinchy, and goosey, not liking to be brushed, sore in lumbar and SI, bucking and not wanting to stretch out and run is the symptoms we had.....but i will also say, that sometimes these habits become a habit that dont go away, my horse still pins his ears when i cinch him up, i dont think he will ever quit that, lol.......also, my horse got to where he started tying up real bad....at first we thought he might have pssm, but it was KS all along. I had spent a fortune on hock and stifle injections trying to figure out what the prob was.......
Im a firm believer in a good pad to protect that spine, also be aware they can get out in thier SI, lumbar and thier Sternum from KS because it all ties in to that back.
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Miss Positive
Posts: 3554
Location: Crowder, OK | Longneck - 2015-11-16 10:41 AM Tinkerbell - 2015-11-15 11:44 AM every saddle i tried on my horse was bridging him in front and behind where his KS is...I tried narrow, wide, just about every tree.....finally we found the #10 double j tree. with the bend in the tree it has, it finally stopped the bridging. and like another person already suggested, i invested in a CSI saddle pad. also, the BOT pad liners are awesome!
Would you happen to have a confirmation picture of your horse? I just sold my Double J w/ standard tree and have a "narrow #10" currently being made for my new mare... who happens to be built pretty similar to the gelding.. if anything is different she's a smidge bit wider. The gelding that was diagnosed with KS was originally in the standard tree and the vet said to get him out of it. Just wondering if maybe the narrow #10 would possibly be a fit for him as well.
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Tinkerbell - 2015-11-16 2:41 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-11-16 9:30 AM I haven't done any research on this issue. What are the vets attributing "kissing spine" to? Conformation, saddle fit, conditioning?
Dr. Chris Ray which was ta ESMS at the time found my horse's KS. he said there are way more horses out there w/it than people think. like prob 1 in 7 from what hes seen over the years....it can be hereditary, from an accident, or ill fitting saddle from the research ive done. Im positive my horse was born w/it because prior to injections, hes been a bucker since he was broke. he bucked all the time and wasnt out of line for him to try to pile me in a run either. ive won a couple checks in runs where he bucked half the pattern, lol..........
being cinchy, and goosey, not liking to be brushed, sore in lumbar and SI, bucking and not wanting to stretch out and run is the symptoms we had.....but i will also say, that sometimes these habits become a habit that dont go away, my horse still pins his ears when i cinch him up, i dont think he will ever quit that, lol.......also, my horse got to where he started tying up real bad....at first we thought he might have pssm, but it was KS all along. I had spent a fortune on hock and stifle injections trying to figure out what the prob was.......
Im a firm believer in a good pad to protect that spine, also be aware they can get out in thier SI, lumbar and thier Sternum from KS because it all ties in to that back.
Mine too would pin her ears when saddling, and would also dance around as soon as she saw me bring the saddle out of the tack room. She was in such pain that is caused ulcers. I feel horrible for not finding out sooner, but once we did find out and treated her, it's amazing the difference I see. Plus it was a fairly inexpensive test - just shoot some x-rays. Much cheaper than trial and error treatment that I was doing. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Murphy - 2015-11-16 1:50 PM
Tinkerbell - 2015-11-16 2:41 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-11-16 9:30 AM I haven't done any research on this issue. What are the vets attributing "kissing spine" to? Conformation, saddle fit, conditioning?
Dr. Chris Ray which was ta ESMS at the time found my horse's KS. he said there are way more horses out there w/it than people think. like prob 1 in 7 from what hes seen over the years....it can be hereditary, from an accident, or ill fitting saddle from the research ive done. Im positive my horse was born w/it because prior to injections, hes been a bucker since he was broke. he bucked all the time and wasnt out of line for him to try to pile me in a run either. ive won a couple checks in runs where he bucked half the pattern, lol..........
being cinchy, and goosey, not liking to be brushed, sore in lumbar and SI, bucking and not wanting to stretch out and run is the symptoms we had.....but i will also say, that sometimes these habits become a habit that dont go away, my horse still pins his ears when i cinch him up, i dont think he will ever quit that, lol.......also, my horse got to where he started tying up real bad....at first we thought he might have pssm, but it was KS all along. I had spent a fortune on hock and stifle injections trying to figure out what the prob was.......
Im a firm believer in a good pad to protect that spine, also be aware they can get out in thier SI, lumbar and thier Sternum from KS because it all ties in to that back.
Mine too would pin her ears when saddling, and would also dance around as soon as she saw me bring the saddle out of the tack room. She was in such pain that is caused ulcers. I feel horrible for not finding out sooner, but once we did find out and treated her, it's amazing the difference I see. Plus it was a fairly inexpensive test - just shoot some x-rays. Much cheaper than trial and error treatment that I was doing.
I was told that conformation is a common cause, but also the three horses I know with it all had some kind of fall shortly before the problems started. So I believe can be be trauma induced too.
My gelding for example, never had a sore back a day in his life but he took a bad spill last summer and he hasnt been the same since. |
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Regular
Posts: 81
| So after surgery what did people do for rehab with horses ? Any special exercises? How long of rehab before you were able to start riding again ? Is CSI pads good ones that most people changed to after surgery ? |
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Tell It Like It Is
Posts: 22025
Location: Wyoming | I haven't posted much here in the last few years, but have been trying to find more information on kissing spines.
My horse was diagnosed this fall with KS. He has always been one to get real sore for a few different reasons, but I found with having a good shoer and hock injections that I could keep him fairly sound.
Then this summer, after making a fantastic run and ending up 3rd in the 2D, he just didn't feel right. His times weren't as fast, he was going by first, felt sore to the right, didn't like picking up the right lead and was really, really sore in his back.
I figured that his sore back was due to an old injury to his right hip so I took him in and had his whorlbones, hip area and lower back injected. (Before injecting the vet did flexion tests and he flexed sound.)
For about 2 weeks those injections really seemed to help, then slowly not so much. And he still wasn't clocking.
By the end of August he wasn't even in the 5D money.
I just couldn't figure out what the heck? Then I watched him get up from rolling. He wouldn't put weight on his right hind. I thought it had to be an injury to that right hind suspensory.
Took him back to the vet and kept asking questions, telling him what I was feeling and what I was seeing. That is when he said to xray his back.
Sure enough! There is was. KS in 3 of the spines. He said that we could inject and if those didn't work we could do surgery, but I wanted to do some research. ( that and I was just over it. LOL)
This was in September.
I found a lot of information on english discipline websites. I am going to try some of what they recommend to do and then injections. Then go from there.
I did find out that is very common in jumping horses.
Edited by realitycheck 2015-12-07 1:33 PM
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Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | rockybar - 2015-11-17 10:24 PM So after surgery what did people do for rehab with horses ? Any special exercises? How long of rehab before you were able to start riding again ? Is CSI pads good ones that most people changed to after surgery ?
My chiro is an english gal and she is the one who picked up on the KS with mine. I had injections done and when I am riding(not right now) I do a Pessoa system, cavalettis, tummy tucks. lots of exercises to strengthen the core and I do a lot of it from the ground so they are good and strong before adding my weight. mine are getting the winter off. but in jan i will start doing cavalettis and in hand work over poles with my KS. just so she doesnt get out of shape over the winter |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| I've had 3 different horses with kissing spine. One had surgery. And recovered great. Two were not good candidates for surgery. Usually they will be very sore and tight over the lower lumbar. It hurts more when they are turning so some symptoms are they will avoid using their hind end during the turns, some will buck during or right after turning a barrel, or other bizarre behavior. IMO on the X-rays they simply have bones too large and lack of soft tissue. Research indicates their ligaments along the spine are too tight. The more you condition them, the more they tighten up, the more the problem is aggravated. It is a painful condition. Any time you have bones rubbing bones ( and pinching nerves and soft tissue) no injection is going to fix that IMO. I strongly suggest do the surgery if they are a good candidate. The most frustrating part after surgery is it seems to take forever for their hair to grow back over the incision sight and it will rub raw if you ride before it is haired over. I rode mine bareback some and ponied her a lot to condition her.
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Location: Texas | Mine just got diagnosed Saturday. We did injections and he has me doing exercises to strengthen her back and posture. Kinda like us doing crunches. Then in a week we will start rehab. I can't ride her again for 2 months. We are really focusing on her building her strength and getting her muscles to relax. I also bought the book The Crooked Horse that is suppose to help with this. |
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Tell It Like It Is
Posts: 22025
Location: Wyoming | livinonlove&horses - 2015-12-07 2:03 PM rockybar - 2015-11-17 10:24 PM So after surgery what did people do for rehab with horses ? Any special exercises? How long of rehab before you were able to start riding again ? Is CSI pads good ones that most people changed to after surgery ? My chiro is an english gal and she is the one who picked up on the KS with mine. I had injections done and when I am riding(not right now) I do a Pessoa system, cavalettis, tummy tucks. lots of exercises to strengthen the core and I do a lot of it from the ground so they are good and strong before adding my weight. mine are getting the winter off. but in jan i will start doing cavalettis and in hand work over poles with my KS. just so she doesnt get out of shape over the winter
I am so glad you mentioned the Pessoa system.
I have also been talking with the makers of the Equiami system. She said they have had great results treating KS horses with the Equiami.
Equiami is sort of like the Pessoa but runs in more of a circle.
All of the reading I have been doing points to long, low lunging to help build the abs and help support the top line. Reteaching a horse how to move by getting his hind end up under him and lifting the abs. One article called it core strengthening.
Here is a link to the Equiami system
http://www.equiami.com/
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Location: Texas | realitycheck - 2015-12-08 9:32 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-12-07 2:03 PM rockybar - 2015-11-17 10:24 PM So after surgery what did people do for rehab with horses ? Any special exercises? How long of rehab before you were able to start riding again ? Is CSI pads good ones that most people changed to after surgery ? My chiro is an english gal and she is the one who picked up on the KS with mine. I had injections done and when I am riding(not right now) I do a Pessoa system, cavalettis, tummy tucks. lots of exercises to strengthen the core and I do a lot of it from the ground so they are good and strong before adding my weight. mine are getting the winter off. but in jan i will start doing cavalettis and in hand work over poles with my KS. just so she doesnt get out of shape over the winter
I have also been talking with the makers of the Equiami system. She said they have had great results treating KS horses with the Equiami.
Equiami is sort of like the Pessoa but runs in more of a circle.
All of the reading I have been doing points to long, low lunging to help build the abs and help support the top line. Reteaching a horse how to move by getting his hind end up under him and lifting the abs. One article called it core strengthening.
Here is a link to the Equiami system
http://www.equiami.com/
Thanks for sharing this. I am looking at their page now. |
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Tell It Like It Is
Posts: 22025
Location: Wyoming | BobbieL - 2015-12-08 4:42 PM
realitycheck - 2015-12-08 9:32 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-12-07 2:03 PM rockybar - 2015-11-17 10:24 PM So after surgery what did people do for rehab with horses ? Any special exercises? How long of rehab before you were able to start riding again ? Is CSI pads good ones that most people changed to after surgery ? My chiro is an english gal and she is the one who picked up on the KS with mine. I had injections done and when I am riding(not right now) I do a Pessoa system, cavalettis, tummy tucks. lots of exercises to strengthen the core and I do a lot of it from the ground so they are good and strong before adding my weight. mine are getting the winter off. but in jan i will start doing cavalettis and in hand work over poles with my KS. just so she doesnt get out of shape over the winter
I have also been talking with the makers of the Equiami system. She said they have had great results treating KS horses with the Equiami.
Equiami is sort of like the Pessoa but runs in more of a circle.
All of the reading I have been doing points to long, low lunging to help build the abs and help support the top line. Reteaching a horse how to move by getting his hind end up under him and lifting the abs. One article called it core strengthening.
Here is a link to the Equiami system
http://www.equiami.com/
You're welcome. :) |
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