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Member
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| I purchased a 3 year old that was just kinda turned out to take care of himself. I sent him to a professional to break him out and 90 days later he is still not what I would be consider broke for me to start riding. Has anyone every experience this with an colt? Frustrated at this point!! 
Edited by Chasem 2015-11-24 12:58 PM
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| I don't think its the colts fault!! |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Chasem - 2015-11-24 12:55 PM I purchased a 3 year old that was just kinda turned out to take care of himself. I sent him to a professional to break him out and 90 days later he is still not what I would be consider broke for me to start riding. Has anyone every experience this with an colt? Frustrated at this point!!
How experience are you at riding a young horse, maybe hes broke better then you think he is? |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | what's your idea of how broke he should be at 90 days? |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Chasem - 2015-11-24 12:55 PM I purchased a 3 year old that was just kinda turned out to take care of himself. I sent him to a professional to break him out and 90 days later he is still not what I would be consider broke for me to start riding. Has anyone every experience this with an colt? Frustrated at this point!!
So it sounds like he was an UNTOUCHED 3-year-old?
The untouched ones take a lot longer to get going. For some horses, 90 days may not be enough.
Have you checked in with the progress of the colt at least every month?
Did you have a discussion with the trainer about what you expected to have after 90 days? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| This happens all the time. I used one guy and after ten days of not hearing from him, I went and picked the horse up. I was not happy. Since then I have heard some horrible stories about said trainer. The guy I use now rides the heck out of them but doesn't do anything fancy that my barrel trainer has to undo. She likes that.
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I've broke a lot of Colts and worked a lot of problem horses. Every horse is different. I've had some that you would swear they were broke the first ride out. Then I have had some that even with 60 days of ground work and 60 days of riding 4-5 days a week I wouldn't trust out of the pen.
Depends too on what your definition of broke is. I've seen some many people would call broke because they don't buck or spook that I wouldn't get on because they're not following their face. Then others that were following their face & light but they're a little spooky and people say they're not broke.
On a horse that isn't easy, 90 days isn't a whole lot if you don't want them looking and you want them doing everything. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| If the horse is "untouched" I could see why he may not be further along. I took in an untouched 4 year old this summer, I spent 45 days just working on tying, desenatizing, saddling, etc... and I worked him EVERY day.... for hours.
And I guess it depends on what you had in mind for brokeness. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| stayceem - 2015-11-24 1:45 PM
If the horse is "untouched" I could see why he may not be further along. I took in an untouched 4 year old this summer, I spent 45 days just working on tying, desenatizing, saddling, etc... and I worked him EVERY day.... for hours.
And I guess it depends on what you had in mind for brokeness.
Yep. There's a lot of work that goes into gettng one ready to step on - if you want it done correctly. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | We sent one with all its ground work out. In 90 days the horse had 5 rides. $750/month and pretty much no progress. He is now at another trainer and isn't making any progress there either. I'm pretty sure this trainer is scared of him so we are bring him home. Now we have zero idea who to send him to. |
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Member
Posts: 8
| The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| 90 days, generally only means 60 days, as most trainers only ride 5 days a week.
Everyone's definition of broke is different. Myself, I don't consider a horse broke till they have atleast a year on them, as they are still unpredictable.
The questions one must ask yourself before you send a horse to any trainer
What has the trainer done
What is their speciality, is it to get them safe, rope off of them, teach them the buttons
How often does the trainer ride the horse, what does their program consist of
Have you seen horses they have rode, did you ask how many rides the horse had on
How did you find out about the person, word of mouth, or advertisements
Did the trainer guarantee anything
What is your experience level
Do you ride similarly to the trainer, (this is a big one, if you ride opposite, then it is very confusing for the horse)
Did you watch the trainer ride the horse when you picked him up
Did you ride the horse at the trainers
Also does the trainers program fit the temperament of the horse.
I just read the comment above I will not let a trainer drug a horse period, I will find a different trainer with a different program.
I had one at a trainer, highly respected, for 3 months got a call to pick her up as she was a dirty bucker. Sent her to an English trainer, 2 months later, she is an amazing mare, no buck, still trying to get her to free up a little, but nicely started, almost ready to be put on barrels
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-11-24 2:13 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 794
| You need my trainer. I sent my colt on the 19 of Sep paid him for one month and he has not come home yet because the trainer doesn't think he is ready for me. I have not paid him anymore money but I have tried. He said when I dropped him off he would send him home broke and that is what he is sticking to. He didn't even climb on him for 21 days. Wanted the ground work to be solid before he rode him. He is has worked him on cattle hauled him to sale barns and worked him in feedlots. Needless to say I love my trainer and he is only 27 so he will be around a long time to work many colts. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Some of the replies are shocking. My husband and I put 30 days on a rancher's colts for several yrs. None of them were handled when we got them at 2-3 yrs old. They had 30 rides when they went home and that was usually within 45 days time. You aren't making any money if you keep them much longer. The trick is to ACTUALLY work with them. We did a couple days of ground work and not just 10 mintues either. Before they went home you could pick up all 4 feet, they rode in pasture and most had trailed cows. They stood to be saddles and you could step on and ride off. They knew leads, stop and back. Move shoulders, hips and ribs. I can't say any of them loped a perfect circle but that is not something this particular owner ever needed them to do. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Chasem - 2015-11-24 1:07 PM The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
I hate to be the bad guy here, but unless that is your style of horse, I would sell and move on. 30 days to handle one is unreal. I have had plenty of rank boogers come through here and they were generally good to work with on the ground after a week or at most 2, of steady daily work. These days I won't give them a 2nd look. |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Mine had had 90 days professional training and I would not consider him well-broke either.
When he is ridden every day at the trainer's, he's great. Super broke. At home with me, not so much. I ride maybe three times a week and you just can't get away with that with this horse. He will get cold-backed and pulls all sorts of stunts to get out of work.
So, yes, I understand and sympathize. It's no one's fault, just the way it is. If I were in a hurry, I'd sell him for something easier.
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Whats he not doing that you wanted done on him? Maybe he needed to stay with the person that broke him longer so they could put some more miles on him, if this trainer had to start from the ground up with this horse its going to take longer then 90 days for one to get a handle on. Was this horse halter broke, could he tie? Theres alot of factors thats gos with a horse at this age. |
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 Expert
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Location: Deep South | Chasem - 2015-11-24 2:07 PM
The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
If he were mine I would send him down the road. Too many nice ones out there to waste time on one like this.
I start colts for people. I just had to call a client last night and tell them the same thing.
I very rarely get one in that bucks. I do my homework on the ground work and at the very most they'll get a little humpy those first couple rides, but I can always pull them around and then go on. But this mare has put me on the ground twice. Second time was after 60 days here. I had round penned her before I ever got on her because the temp just dropped here in the past couple days, I knew she was quirky and wanted to be extra cautious. I had been trotting circles, figure eights, spirals, bending, counter bending for about 10 minutes on her when completely out of nowhere she broke in 2. I couldn't get her head pulled around for anything and she wasn't quitting until she got me off.
She had been just turned out, basically untouched until she was 5 before they brought her to get started. Like your trainer I had spent the first 30 on the ground just getting her calmed down. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I won't waste my time on a dirty bucker like that. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Depends on the colt. Our older colt, bad experience with first trainer, is still being trained. Rides a bit green but isn't bucking. He had close to 9 mos and now is doing day work. He'll have about a year and a half when he gets back. Some just need more time. |
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Location: West Texas | Most horses need about 6 months before they really ride around pretty decent for the average non colt rider, in my opinion. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | Personally I dont know how anyone can put a great foundation on a colt in 90 days.. I dont know your situation but thats just in general.. .foundation work is so important and will set the horse up to succeed or fail.. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Chasem - 2015-11-24 2:07 PM
The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
If the trainer "had to give him something" so he could ride him, you need a different trainer or a different horse. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | winwillows - 2015-11-24 8:47 PM
Chasem - 2015-11-24 2:07 PM
The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
If the trainer "had to give him something" so he could ride him, you need a different trainer or a different horse.
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 Expert
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Location: Texas | Chasem - 2015-11-24 2:07 PM
The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him.
I'm confused are you frustrated with the horse or trainer. I thought you were frustrated with the trainer till I saw this???????? 90 days on an untouched 3 yr old is not much. I'm always floored at people starting coming 3yr olds to ride! Bad bad idea! Colts should be broke before they even turn 2! |
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Expert
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Location: Texas | Bibliafarm - 2015-11-24 8:27 PM
Personally I dont know how anyone can put a great foundation on a colt in 90 days.. I dont know your situation but thats just in general.. .foundation work is so important and will set the horse up to succeed or fail..
Amen best post under this thread yet! |
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| You have arena trainers that need the fenced in arena for their own confidence and 30 minutes in the saddle a few times a week and then you have horsemen that will work a colt and challenge him to behave and be crazier than the colt and go ride in big pastures to put some miles and wet saddle blankets on them. Rather than nag and pester them in a closed arena...
A tired sweaty horse that has been ridden leisurely becomes a very well broke horse to the basics in a short period of time. .. Then it is up to the owner to learn the cues and movements the horseman has been using and to get the horse seasoned to the lights and sounds of the environment they will eventually be competing ...
Too many "trainers" are overpriced and fail to do their jobs while using your money to play rodeo and go to events instead of working your horses... and going bar hopping all week long ..
I am not going to send one of mine more than a 100 miles from my barn ... because I am going to go and check on progress and this scares the heck out of local "trainers" that have a habit of doing a 5 day rush job after having a horse for 60-90 days.
You can't train a horse when you spend Thursday thru Sunday barrel racing or going to rodeos and resting up on Monday and spending 30 minutes on a horse on Tuesday and Wednesday!!
If you want to scare the crap out of a trainer interview ... ask them if they can match this video or have horse more broke than what they see in this video ... they will turn white and find some reason NOT TO TAKE YOUR HORSE!!
BECKY AMIO .. 30 RIDES ...
https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk
The movements and focused forward movement and individual moves like flying lead changes, side passing, and gaining the correct lead from a turnaround and then the desensitizing and getting run out of their brain by rattling a barn door, roping a barrel and opening and closing a gate are all movements that a barrel horse uses when running a pattern ... this is my favorite of any training videos I have ever seen and Becky has many videos on youtube showing the same training session where she combines the single movements she has taught ....as she repeats the single movements and adds to them they begin to flow together and get better and better and smoother and smoother ... relaxed focused repetition is a trainers best friend.... .... because these are the basics a good barrel horse must know !!
(Don't get the turnarounds confused with rollbacks... notice the turnaround keeps all 4 feet moving and teaches the horse to feet up under themselves while maintaing forward movement and correct lead whether a 180 or several 360's are asked for ... ) .. rollbacks should never be taught to a barrel horse ... 80% of barrels are knocked because horse was taught rollbacks and rider miscued and horse ducked into the barrel)
HAVE FUN WITH YOUR TRAINER WITH THIS VIDEO ...
you may lose a friend but so be it!! lol ...
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Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | There are so many things in your post BarrelHorseUSA that I take issue with. I'll just come out and say it, something doesn't add up here. I have NEVER seen a horse go from unstarted to that in 30 rides. Perhaps that is just the smartest horse there is or the truth hasn't been told. Either way to make many of the statements you have made is bothersome, although there are "some" things I do agree with you, but wouldn't be so general and condescending about. Lastly, flying lead changes should not be taught to a horse in this time frame. Any maneuver taught to a horse is a good one. To think that a horse incorrectly thinks they are being given a roll back cue and knocking over barrels is laughable. All of these things I know, and if someone came running all this stuff to us, we would not take the horse for training (it wouldn't be because of being "scared" as you say with not being able to duplicate this video!) I hope no one reads that and is mislead about good trainers, good training programs, and what to expect and how to act toward their trainer.
I am not running down the trainer in this video. Looks like she does a good job with one.
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 6:08 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Tdove - 2015-11-25 5:49 AM
There are so many things in your post BarrelHorseUSA that I take issue with. I'll just come out and say it, something doesn't add up here. I have NEVER seen a horse go from unstarted to that in 30 rides. Perhaps that is just the smartest horse there is or the truth hasn't been told. Either way to make many of the statements you have made is bothersome, although there are "some" things I do agree with you, but wouldn't be so general and condescending about. Lastly, flying lead changes should not be taught to a horse in this time frame. Any maneuver taught to a horse is a good one. To think that a horse incorrectly thinks they are being given a roll back cue and knocking over barrels is laughable. All of these things I know, and if someone came running all this stuff to us, we would not take the horse for training (it wouldn't be because of being "scared" as you say with not being able to duplicate this video!) I hope no one reads that and is mislead about good trainers, good training programs, and what to expect and how to act toward their trainer.
I am not running down the trainer in this video. Looks like she does a good job with one.
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| I am not directing this at the OP by any means, but I feel like there are so many people who think they can just send a horse to any trainer for a said amount of time and be guaranteed a nice horse, when that is just not the case. There is so much more to it than that. We have a good friend who we send all our colts to for 30-60 days, but that is only a very very short amount of their learning curve. We start our own as two year olds, put a decent amount of riding on them, we don't pound them, mostly just teach them ground manners and to ride in a round pen and arena, possibly even outside if they are safe enough. We try to really instill a ""good experience" with every ride. While we aren't scared to discipline one, we also try to not make things too difficult and show them that we aren't going to pull on their face or spur the heavens out of them. Usually the winter before they turn 3 we send them to him to get them loping collected circles, moving off leg pressure, stopping, backing, and turning over their butt. This is not the first time these things have been introduced to them, but our working cowhorse friend can make them much more snappy and fluid in these motions. We always consult with him on the things we can work on and have him show us what to do. Following that we get a lot of riding in on the colts and once we feel they are ready to start in the barrels or roping we do so.
It is just unrealistic to think you can go pull an untouched horse out of a pasture, take it to a trainer for a few months, and boom out pops this nice riding colt. If it were that easy, there would be a lot more nice riding horses! Also a pet-peeve of mine, is people who think they can send them to any $500/month ranch cowboy to break them. While I will say there are some out there that will do a good job, you can 99% of the time bet on "you get what you pay for." We take in training horses for barrels and roping and we cannot charge such a low amount because we would be losing money in all the feed and care that we provide. Plus we can only take in so many, because each has their own pipe run with a stall/shed.
Like I said, I am not saying that the OP had these expectations, but I do know some people that do and I find it insane. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | I think Barrelhorse USA's post brings up several important points about considerations when hiring a trainer for your horse. Mainly, how NOT to do things ;-)
Contrary to what BhUSA says, there's are trainers that work everyday, don't go to the bar, are full accessible by phone or in person and put a heck of a lot more than a 5 day rush job on a horse that's been there 90 days.
***I think the most important thing that anyone looking for a trainer needs to figure out , especially for colt starting, is what is your style ? And what are your goals to accomplish in the 90 days you're thinking about ?
Some people's idea of "broke" is a horse that won't Buck you off. Some want buttons put on, etc. It sounds like this horse might be a little goosey and OP doesn't like that.
Some horses will always be goosey no matter how much ground work and how much sweat they've sweated.
Molli brings up a great point, starting horses young is much easier than starting a horse that's 3 or 4 that's untouched. He thinks in a completely different mode.
***If you're trainer has to "give him something" that's definitely a big red flag....that's not training.****
Although I'm not starting outside colts anymore, here's a video of a a 2 yo filly that is my idea of "nicely started". She came to me summer of her 2 yo year. She had about 7-8 days of ground work and then started riding. She's soft, confident, quiet, ready to go on with.
http://youtu.be/hSeA36ugQb4
ETA:
They don't all turn out this way in 30 rides. Bloodlines and life experience have a lot to do with it. There are some that are just not going to come around that easy.
Edited by Liana D 2015-11-25 9:03 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | 80% of all knocked barrels are because a horse was taught rollbacks?
Edited by barrelracr131 2015-11-25 9:15 AM
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | mollibtexan - 2015-11-25 10:24 PM Chasem - 2015-11-24 2:07 PM The trainer has done a good job. The first 30 days was just trying to get him calmed down enough to handle. He is riding him, but he had to give him something to help calm him down. He is learning, but still a little dangerous. I am a good rider and ride a lot of colts, but to old to break them these days. I normal can go with them after 45 to 60 days, but this one were not sure if 6 months will get him. I'm confused are you frustrated with the horse or trainer. I thought you were frustrated with the trainer till I saw this???????? 90 days on an untouched 3 yr old is not much. I'm always floored at people starting coming 3yr olds to ride! Bad bad idea! Colts should be broke before they even turn 2!
ya im gonna have to disagree on that...it all depends on the colt.........mentally and physically............
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-25 3:35 AM You have arena trainers that need the fenced in arena for their own confidence and 30 minutes in the saddle a few times a week and then you have horsemen that will work a colt and challenge him to behave and be crazier than the colt and go ride in big pastures to put some miles and wet saddle blankets on them. Rather than nag and pester them in a closed arena... A tired sweaty horse that has been ridden leisurely becomes a very well broke horse to the basics in a short period of time. .. Then it is up to the owner to learn the cues and movements the horseman has been using and to get the horse seasoned to the lights and sounds of the environment they will eventually be competing ... Too many "trainers" are overpriced and fail to do their jobs while using your money to play rodeo and go to events instead of working your horses... and going bar hopping all week long .. I am not going to send one of mine more than a 100 miles from my barn ... because I am going to go and check on progress and this scares the heck out of local "trainers" that have a habit of doing a 5 day rush job after having a horse for 60-90 days. You can't train a horse when you spend Thursday thru Sunday barrel racing or going to rodeos and resting up on Monday and spending 30 minutes on a horse on Tuesday and Wednesday!! If you want to scare the crap out of a trainer interview ... ask them if they can match this video or have horse more broke than what they see in this video ... they will turn white and find some reason NOT TO TAKE YOUR HORSE!! BECKY AMIO .. 30 RIDES ... https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk The movements and focused forward movement and individual moves like flying lead changes, side passing, and gaining the correct lead from a turnaround and then the desensitizing and getting run out of their brain by rattling a barn door, roping a barrel and opening and closing a gate are all movements that a barrel horse uses when running a pattern ... this is my favorite of any training videos I have ever seen and Becky has many videos on youtube showing the same training session where she combines the single movements she has taught ....as she repeats the single movements and adds to them they begin to flow together and get better and better and smoother and smoother ... relaxed focused repetition is a trainers best friend.... .... because these are the basics a good barrel horse must know !! (Don't get the turnarounds confused with rollbacks... notice the turnaround keeps all 4 feet moving and teaches the horse to feet up under themselves while maintaing forward movement and correct lead whether a 180 or several 360's are asked for ... ) .. rollbacks should never be taught to a barrel horse ... 80% of barrels are knocked because horse was taught rollbacks and rider miscued and horse ducked into the barrel ) HAVE FUN WITH YOUR TRAINER WITH THIS VIDEO ... you may lose a friend but so be it!! lol ...
There are days when you just have to shake your head at your posts.....Please NOTE that the video said 30 RIDES.....doesn't say how many "days" of ground work that the horse received. To me, it looks like it had a very good foundation before she ever swung a leg over her. Some of your observations about training barrel horses, etc. lead me to believe that you are nothing more than a "rail jockey". 
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Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | Liana D - 2015-11-25 8:45 AM
I think Barrelhorse USA's post brings up several important points about considerations when hiring a trainer for your horse. Mainly, how NOT to do things ;- )
Contrary to what BhUSA says, there's are trainers that work everyday, don't go to the bar, are full accessible by phone or in person and put a heck of a lot more than a 5 day rush job on a horse that's been there 90 days.
***I think the most important thing that anyone looking for a trainer needs to figure out , especially for colt starting, is what is your style ? And what are your goals to accomplish in the 90 days you're thinking about ?
Some people's idea of "broke" is a horse that won't Buck you off. Some want buttons put on, etc. It sounds like this horse might be a little goosey and OP doesn't like that.
Some horses will always be goosey no matter how much ground work and how much sweat they've sweated.
Molli brings up a great point, starting horses young is much easier than starting a horse that's 3 or 4 that's untouched. He thinks in a completely different mode.
***If you're trainer has to "give him something" that's definitely a big red flag....that's not training.****
Although I'm not starting outside colts anymore, here's a video of a a 2 yo filly that is my idea of "nicely started". She came to me summer of her 2 yo year. She had about 7-8 days of ground work and then started riding. She's soft, confident, quiet, ready to go on with.
http://youtu.be/hSeA36ugQb4
ETA:
They don't all turn out this way in 30 rides. Bloodlines and life experience have a lot to do with it. There are some that are just not going to come around that easy.
THANK YOU!!! AND THIS IS WHY YOU GET MY BUSINESS AND WILL UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO RETIRE!
If I lived in California, heck, if I lived in Brazil, I'd still ship my horses to Liana because she rides them consistently and hands you back a soft, confident horse that knows how to carry itself. She is great about being in contact, doing videos, answering questions, etc.
Something Liana didn't do and I won't do much of but want to note, is that between the two videos, while the palomino gelding 'looks' like he's performing a number of those maneuvers at greater speed and such you can see a bit more resistance and some failure at self carriage. In the lead changes, when he switches its pushed over, fast, and he always speeds up. It's not an easy transition. He looks a bit front heavy to me from the draw reins (which are not going to help him with self carriage). He's obviously good minded, puts up with noises, etc. well but his expression is not as engaged to me. Both horses do some lateral work and are confidently trotting, backing, loping circles. Both get under themselves in their stops. And both of them, if you took them to a new arena, would probably need a bit of patience as they adjusted to the sights and sounds but would also likely handle it okay. I know that Liana rides most of hers outside too. I think a number of trainers ride them outside some as its as important a mental break for the trainer as it is for the horse.
I have had bad trainer experiences. The type of trainer BHUSA describes DOES exist, but they are not all that way. As much as a bad trainer will leave a really really bad taste in your mouth, a good one will make you glow. And many of us may not in fact have trainers like Liana living within 100 miles of our house.
Like I said, I've had one that's having to have over a year of careful handling and pasture work because of a bad trainer (we had used the guy twice before and not had a problem). But he's coming on okay and will go to Liana for a softer finish and barrel training when he gets back. But Zephyr has come on so soft and nice and willing with her with just 90 days as a 2 year old and 90 as a three year old. She'll get a bit more this next year. A lot of it really does depend on the horse. All that said, Zephyr is FUN TO RIDE, but I still expect her to act like a three year old some days. She'll get calmer and calmer the more she sees and the more confidence she gets.
ETA: That palomino gelding also does A LOT of rollbacks. ;)
Edited by oija 2015-11-25 10:45 AM
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 Crazy Chicken Chick
Posts: 36132
| Liana D - 2015-11-25 8:45 AM I think Barrelhorse USA's post brings up several important points about considerations when hiring a trainer for your horse. Mainly, how NOT to do things ;- ) Contrary to what BhUSA says, there's are trainers that work everyday, don't go to the bar, are full accessible by phone or in person and put a heck of a lot more than a 5 day rush job on a horse that's been there 90 days. ***I think the most important thing that anyone looking for a trainer needs to figure out , especially for colt starting, is what is your style ? And what are your goals to accomplish in the 90 days you're thinking about ? Some people's idea of "broke" is a horse that won't Buck you off. Some want buttons put on, etc. It sounds like this horse might be a little goosey and OP doesn't like that. Some horses will always be goosey no matter how much ground work and how much sweat they've sweated. Molli brings up a great point, starting horses young is much easier than starting a horse that's 3 or 4 that's untouched. He thinks in a completely different mode. ***If you're trainer has to "give him something" that's definitely a big red flag....that's not training.**** Although I'm not starting outside colts anymore, here's a video of a a 2 yo filly that is my idea of "nicely started". She came to me summer of her 2 yo year. She had about 7-8 days of ground work and then started riding. She's soft, confident, quiet, ready to go on with. http://youtu.be/hSeA36ugQb4 ETA: They don't all turn out this way in 30 rides. Bloodlines and life experience have a lot to do with it. There are some that are just not going to come around that easy.
This is exactly why we drove 20+ hrs EACH way to Liana. She allows them the time they need and puts a good foundation on them FIRST. My horses looked fantastic when they left and they were worked. My coming 2yo will go in the fall to Ok to be broke by someone she recommended and then to her to board until the spring when she'll put more time on her and start the pattern (as a 3yo.) It's TOTALLY worth it to know that my horses are well cared for and will be handy broke when they come home. She went above and beyond to get my horses what they needed. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-25 3:35 AM You have arena trainers that need the fenced in arena for their own confidence and 30 minutes in the saddle a few times a week and then you have horsemen that will work a colt and challenge him to behave and be crazier than the colt and go ride in big pastures to put some miles and wet saddle blankets on them. Rather than nag and pester them in a closed arena... A tired sweaty horse that has been ridden leisurely becomes a very well broke horse to the basics in a short period of time. .. Then it is up to the owner to learn the cues and movements the horseman has been using and to get the horse seasoned to the lights and sounds of the environment they will eventually be competing ... Too many "trainers" are overpriced and fail to do their jobs while using your money to play rodeo and go to events instead of working your horses... and going bar hopping all week long .. I am not going to send one of mine more than a 100 miles from my barn ... because I am going to go and check on progress and this scares the heck out of local "trainers" that have a habit of doing a 5 day rush job after having a horse for 60-90 days. You can't train a horse when you spend Thursday thru Sunday barrel racing or going to rodeos and resting up on Monday and spending 30 minutes on a horse on Tuesday and Wednesday!! If you want to scare the crap out of a trainer interview ... ask them if they can match this video or have horse more broke than what they see in this video ... they will turn white and find some reason NOT TO TAKE YOUR HORSE!! BECKY AMIO .. 30 RIDES ... https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk The movements and focused forward movement and individual moves like flying lead changes, side passing, and gaining the correct lead from a turnaround and then the desensitizing and getting run out of their brain by rattling a barn door, roping a barrel and opening and closing a gate are all movements that a barrel horse uses when running a pattern ... this is my favorite of any training videos I have ever seen and Becky has many videos on youtube showing the same training session where she combines the single movements she has taught ....as she repeats the single movements and adds to them they begin to flow together and get better and better and smoother and smoother ... relaxed focused repetition is a trainers best friend.... .... because these are the basics a good barrel horse must know !! (Don't get the turnarounds confused with rollbacks... notice the turnaround keeps all 4 feet moving and teaches the horse to feet up under themselves while maintaing forward movement and correct lead whether a 180 or several 360's are asked for ... ) .. rollbacks should never be taught to a barrel horse ... 80% of barrels are knocked because horse was taught rollbacks and rider miscued and horse ducked into the barrel ) HAVE FUN WITH YOUR TRAINER WITH THIS VIDEO ... you may lose a friend but so be it!! lol ...
My boy has reined cowhorse training and can do a beautiful roll back... We've yet to hit a barrel....  |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | barrelracr131 - 2015-11-25 8:57 AM
80% of all knocked barrels are because a horse was taught rollbacks?
I really don't know what to say this, since you can only do a rollback if you completely stop forward motion first. If a rider runs past a barrel and stops, then cues the horse to roll back over its hocks, I suppose that rider has other problems going on with that run. If a person stops all forward momentum 80% of the time they knock a barrel over it is time to go back to basics. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I have 3 horses that I started from the ground up right now, all out of the same mare with a stud change on the little mare. The gelding I got as a coming 2 year old, he had been saddled 3x before I got him. He was dog gentle and could walk, jog, lope with leads by day 30. Freak. He has bucked once in his life and he was 7 when he did it...he was cow fresh and did a little half skip/buck thing on his first hard turn back of the morning at a cutting lesson, it was laughable. His full sister we got as a yearling. Showed her in a walk jog training show the 6th time I'd ever been on her..
Then I have their half sister, she was an unstarted (or that was the story) 3 year old. Nothing big until the 45 day mark when I started asking for a bit more and a little longer works and she decided breaking in two waS a good choice of how to tell me she was done learning. Between 45 and 90 days on her was the toughest of our lives with her. Took her seriously until she was 6 to be considered "broke" . |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | To say that 80% of all barrels are knocked for the same reason just seems super plausible too.  |
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | barrelracr131 - 2015-11-25 12:47 PM
To say that 80% of all barrels are knocked for the same reason just seems super plausible too.
And there's this...
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | BamaCanChaser - 2015-11-25 1:21 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-11-25 12:47 PM To say that 80% of all barrels are knocked for the same reason just seems super plausible too. And there's this...
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Sounds like Yogi Berra, Alison. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs
@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
Edited by rockinas 2015-11-25 1:55 PM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-25 3:35 AM You have arena trainers that need the fenced in arena for their own confidence and 30 minutes in the saddle a few times a week and then you have horsemen that will work a colt and challenge him to behave and be crazier than the colt and go ride in big pastures to put some miles and wet saddle blankets on them. Rather than nag and pester them in a closed arena... A tired sweaty horse that has been ridden leisurely becomes a very well broke horse to the basics in a short period of time. .. Then it is up to the owner to learn the cues and movements the horseman has been using and to get the horse seasoned to the lights and sounds of the environment they will eventually be competing ... Too many "trainers" are overpriced and fail to do their jobs while using your money to play rodeo and go to events instead of working your horses... and going bar hopping all week long .. I am not going to send one of mine more than a 100 miles from my barn ... because I am going to go and check on progress and this scares the heck out of local "trainers" that have a habit of doing a 5 day rush job after having a horse for 60-90 days. You can't train a horse when you spend Thursday thru Sunday barrel racing or going to rodeos and resting up on Monday and spending 30 minutes on a horse on Tuesday and Wednesday!! If you want to scare the crap out of a trainer interview ... ask them if they can match this video or have horse more broke than what they see in this video ... they will turn white and find some reason NOT TO TAKE YOUR HORSE!! BECKY AMIO .. 30 RIDES ... https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk The movements and focused forward movement and individual moves like flying lead changes, side passing, and gaining the correct lead from a turnaround and then the desensitizing and getting run out of their brain by rattling a barn door, roping a barrel and opening and closing a gate are all movements that a barrel horse uses when running a pattern ... this is my favorite of any training videos I have ever seen and Becky has many videos on youtube showing the same training session where she combines the single movements she has taught ....as she repeats the single movements and adds to them they begin to flow together and get better and better and smoother and smoother ... relaxed focused repetition is a trainers best friend.... .... because these are the basics a good barrel horse must know !! (Don't get the turnarounds confused with rollbacks... notice the turnaround keeps all 4 feet moving and teaches the horse to feet up under themselves while maintaing forward movement and correct lead whether a 180 or several 360's are asked for ... ) .. rollbacks should never be taught to a barrel horse ... 80% of barrels are knocked because horse was taught rollbacks and rider miscued and horse ducked into the barrel ) HAVE FUN WITH YOUR TRAINER WITH THIS VIDEO ... you may lose a friend but so be it!! lol ...
Agree with the other poster that the video says "30 rides". It does not say how much was spent on ground work.
The trainer my mom send her Frenchman's Guy grandson colt to had him doing flying lead changes in 30 days too. He said he was a very smart colt and picked up on things really easily. Is he "broke"? Heavens no. He's quite the frisky little bugger, but he sure is SMART and my mom thinks the world of him (I just sure hope he doesn't actually dump her one of these days.....)
Not to mention, I doubt the horse in the video in question could do a flying lead change at a SLOW COLLECTED lope. She's going pretty fast there in her changes. Not saying she hasn't done a good job with a horse, but I'm not exactly singing prasises either. I saw quite a few cross-fires in there as well.... Looks like she focusing more about throwing the shoulders over, rather than having control of the hind end, like you need to have for a CORRECT flying lead change.
I had a mare one time that was 5 years old that I was doing tempe flying lead changes on her barely after 30 days of riding (she was not broke to ride when I bought her). Was I that good of a trainer? Heck no. She was just that "easy" about her flying lead changes; it was amazing. Made me look real good.
I guess I just don't see anything that phenomenal with the video. Yeah, looks like she is doing a nice job with the horse, but we don't know how much ground work she did in preparation, and even the description says she is a GENTLE horse. I'm guessing she's got a really good mind too. She looks pretty willing to please. Those ones are always more easy to train. Its the hard-to-train horses that really put a trainer to the test.
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | rockinas - 2015-11-25 1:51 PM Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs
@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
This is a pretty great youtube channel to watch-thanks for sharing.....I've heard about your colt starter but never watched him-guessing he's going to be getting some calls based off this single post. Heck of a hand! |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Tdove - 2015-11-25 5:49 AM There are so many things in your post BarrelHorseUSA that I take issue with. I'll just come out and say it, something doesn't add up here. I have NEVER seen a horse go from unstarted to that in 30 rides. Perhaps that is just the smartest horse there is or the truth hasn't been told. Either way to make many of the statements you have made is bothersome, although there are "some" things I do agree with you, but wouldn't be so general and condescending about. Lastly, flying lead changes should not be taught to a horse in this time frame. Any maneuver taught to a horse is a good one. To think that a horse incorrectly thinks they are being given a roll back cue and knocking over barrels is laughable. All of these things I know, and if someone came running all this stuff to us, we would not take the horse for training (it wouldn't be because of being "scared" as you say with not being able to duplicate this video!) I hope no one reads that and is mislead about good trainers, good training programs, and what to expect and how to act toward their trainer. I am not running down the trainer in this video. Looks like she does a good job with one.
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories....
The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen.
We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society.
The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive.
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 3:07 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Fairweather - 2015-11-25 1:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on.
what breeds are you thinking? I have mostly worked with QH, but interned on an Arabian show place and started roughly 10 head. All were very nice horses and rode great in 30 days. I have had a handful of Morgans. 3 came from the same place and they were the most aweful mean horses to be around. Counterfeit would have been an improvement. But they were all 3 from the same lady and breeding program. Started a couple TB's, not off the track. As far as warm bloods or drafts, I have never worked with them. But I see no reason they wouldn't be able to have the same basics down as any 'ol stock horse breed. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Tdove - 2015-11-25 2:00 PM Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories.... The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen. We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society. The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive.
very true but to say a horse can't possibly be doing much at 30 days is crazy. It of course depends on the horse, but some of the time lines given are insane. I know absolutey no tricks to keep one from bucking, or to keep it from pulling back when tied or to give in the face etc. It was just from being ridden daily, making your rides count for something and each day getting the horse to learn something new. Going round and round in a round pen will get you nowhere and I know from sending my own colts out, that is what a lot of "trainers" do. I don't know Amy's trainer, but it seems to me that he just RIDES them, probably almost daily. That is the key to getting one riding nice in 30 days. |
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | LMS - 2015-11-25 2:14 PM This is a pretty great youtube channel to watch-thanks for sharing.....I've heard about your colt starter but never watched him-guessing he's going to be getting some calls based off this single post. Heck of a hand!
Thanks---yes, he is that good. I can ride easily behind him.
He's got a 2+ year waiting list to get colts into his program. I usually send him 4-5 a year. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I am pretty familiar with what can be expected out of one. In the beginning of every new area of training, I firmly believe that less is more. This is really true with breaking. Another example is I train rope horses. Most people will do more with one in the beginning than me, but what really matters is not the first couple of months. Less is more....it is where the foundation is laid.
A horse is only as good as the foundation. Merely riding doesn't accomplish anything, only training and the quality thereof. I've seen and known countless horses that received too much training as well. It's a complicated matter for sure.
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 3:56 PM
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM
Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on.
I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others.
IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-11-25 3:17 PM Tdove - 2015-11-25 2:00 PM Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories.... The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen. We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society. The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive. very true but to say a horse can't possibly be doing much at 30 days is crazy. It of course depends on the horse, but some of the time lines given are insane. I know absolutey no tricks to keep one from bucking, or to keep it from pulling back when tied or to give in the face etc. It was just from being ridden daily, making your rides count for something and each day getting the horse to learn something new. Going round and round in a round pen will get you nowhere and I know from sending my own colts out, that is what a lot of "trainers" do. I don't know Amy's trainer, but it seems to me that he just RIDES them, probably almost daily. That is the key to getting one riding nice in 30 days.
I agree, he does just take them out and RIDE them in a working ranch setting. A lot of trainers anymore, can't really go do that. I don't want just a round pen or arena started horse @ 30 days.
Depending on the time of year, my colts will be used in the feedlot, used for calving, used for gathering, and used for brandings. Right now my 2 year old that's out there, out of Dazzler & Lena May has been used to fall gather cows/heifers & preg testing. This is very important to me, when I get a 30 day colt back I plan on using it here more than just in the arena. And there's so much to be said for getting a good start on a colt and then putting that foundation to work ASAP. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Liana D - 2015-11-25 3:39 PM Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others. IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree ) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
BHUSA's comment about the breeding mattering in how well one was going to be in 30 days bothered me. I'm glad I'm not the only one who believes it doesn't really matter. Yes some horses who are bred the same act the same, I will agree on that. But to think that a horse doesn't get a fair chance just because of his breeding doesn't sound right to me. By that account no Hancock bred horse would be "able" to be broken and riden since they are "all bucking stock" horses. My little Hancock is a wild mare, sassy, agressive, a witch and a flat out run all day with no tire kinda mare. She speaks her mind and is on fire 24/7. At the same time she will take care of a child on her back during a leadline class by moving under them when they start to lean. But she has a great handle, is lightening fast out of the box and is by far the best and most protective Momma I've ever seen in action. She is a challenge to handle, but that's because she knows what she wants out of a ride. And that's for you to listen to her LOL  |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| This sort of feels like recess. MY trainer is better than YOUR trainer type stuff.
I rode some colts to get through college. I've ridden enough outside horses to figure out that pretty soon, a good trainer will fire the client just as quickly as the client will fire the trainer. You just can't please everyone.
Some colts are natural and make you feel like a real trainer. Some colts take every tool in your belt. Some colts get sent home with a sign around their neck that says, "Do not pass go unless headed to sale barn." Some horses truly deserve every chance humans can give them, and some horses don't want to be given chances. They don't like people and only a certain type of rider and user can keep them in a job.
I don't think that teaching one tricks helps the horse. Trainers that can make colts look good for the camera aren't helping the horse to live a long, well cared for life. They're not giving the horse the tools to remain in good hands. This is due to the fact that most folks want to be able to get on horses that are easy to cue, that truly trust humans. A trainer that just installs tricks and deadens them to surroundings isn't going to replace a trainer that installs true responsibility and responsiveness in a horse.
I take forever training my own. I do. Mostly it's because I don't have the time, but I've still found that I like horses that are trained over time as opposed to slammed together in a 60 day period.
There's a very limited field that I would feel comfortable sending a horse to, due to the fear that a trainer would feel rushed to put my horse together and do too much too soon, or not do anything and keep my money.
I'm also not going to invest money in a colt that I just don't think has what it takes to perform over the long run. It's always a crap shoot, but I'm only going to send off horses of the highest quality. No reason to try to sew sows ears |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I guess this thread really shows what broke is to some and foundation work is to another. we all do things differantly.. our goal should be the same.. a confident horse.....yes we can make one broke within 90 days to continue on their training with a trainer ..during our training time over time ..We usually start with the round pen, then free jumping after some basic ground work ..
then longline and saddle and then proceed to walk trot canter work then proceed to take out hacking and so on. this can take time .. we try to not rush or push but by no means stall for time..
The thing I guess thats differant is yes the horse could be broke and rideable but still needs guidence.. if owner is novice and starts to train on him then the horse might be confused and then there is no strong foundation .. we see them go out aand few months later come back for more training .. we like to try to provide the owner with a horse a lil more knowledgable and firm foundation.. I think thats where we are a lil differant then some. Im not saying you cant put walk trot canter into a colt in 90 days I just like to provide more then that .. the tools to go forth so it wont get so lost if the rider doesnt understand..a horse that is more mentally capable of handling things.. of course there is always a exception .but i like to know the rider /owner can enjoy the horse .. and horse be more secure in itself..i am talking warmbloods..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-11-25 4:38 PM
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Liana D - 2015-11-25 3:39 PM Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others. IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
And----this is why you are awesome!!! |
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Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | My husband has broke A LOT of horses and never spent 30 days of ground work on one handled of not...we would get them in, never touched, and have to have them broke and ready to go home in 30-60 days! He made some really good quiet horses, but it was a lot of hours in the saddle on each one. |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada |
I think the big thing with trainers is you have to research them just as well as you would a horse you are going to buy. You want the right fit for you and your horse.
So many things come into play with trainers and clients. How far that horse progresses depends on so many factors.
I know alot of times the horses that the owners have 'started' or tried to work with , end up being alot more work then ones that are unhandled.
If you are sending a horse out - how that horse progresses mentally has alot to do with how that horse feels physically. We see posts here all the time about trainers and skinny horses - but there are also owners that send horses that aren't physically in shape to go to training, haven't had their teeth done or whatever it may be. A trainer can't work miracles on a horse that isn't feeling a 100 per cent.
It makes a huge difference to where the colt is going home to someone experienced with colts, to someone that isn't. 90 days you can have a horse riding really well with a trainer who is building that confidence and nurturing it. If they go home and get in a situation where their confidence gets comprised - they can really regress.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I think classicpotatochip hit the nail on the head.
I really like a lot of ground work. Done correctly it does make a difference, to is anyway. I like to think of it as setting a horse up for success. Everything we do in training a horse is to help it get things right the first time and always build on small successes. It doesn't matter what level of training one is at, you want to build on what was there before and make the next step a seamless natural development of what came before. This reduces problems and it increases confidence. In the end every horsemen "trains for try" out of the horse. I have quite a few sayings, another is "good horses make great trainers". I'll go ahead and post a video of a 3rd ride on a stud colt. He had extensive groundwork. Not every horse is this nice on the 3rd ride, some horses are better than others. I never meant to say a horse can't do well in a short amount of time. Most just don't have what it takes. And putting a solid foundation for a good handle, takes a bit more time, I think.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPWFfetNh0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSq4bt3EFs
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 7:32 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | rockinas - 2015-11-25 1:51 PM
Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
Key number here is 2. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | I honestly get a lot done on two year old in a short amount of time. I have broke coming 2 year old to 10 years olds and I will tell you age makes a difference. When a colt is really young their flight or fright instinct is lower, they accept training more quickly. As horses get older that fright instinct gets way stronger. I don't ride the colts down for "wet saddle blanket" I choose to take things slow and let a colt digest what I'm communicating. Once you ride a colt for hours or whatever they aren't dialed into you anymore they are just out moving around. On top of that you can get a horse so sore riding them to much. It is not fair to judge or chastise this trainer bc he can't get a 3yr old "broke". Trainers are put under a microscope of what a horse should be to at a certain time frame. Unless you have broke horses it's easy to say oh this is where they should be. Every horse is different and you should realize that. I will say though in my years of training I have only ridden behind a couple of trainers that I was impressed by. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rockinas - 2015-11-25 1:51 PM
Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
I've been watching Rodney for a few years now, thanks to you, Amy. I wish I would have known him a few years ago. He does such a fantastic job. I've learned so much....mainly that if a person is serious about the right foundation, then do a ton of research and be willing to pay a little more for the best. A lot of people wouldn't hestiate to spend $700 for a fancy tack set, or $3500 for a new saddle, then turn around and send their colts to the lowest bidder, Betty Barrel Racer, just on a random recommendation. The saying goes, "you get what you pay for", but I would add to that....IF you are lucky. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| IRunOnFaith - 2015-11-25 3:56 PM
Liana D - 2015-11-25 3:39 PM Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others. IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree ) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
I disagree breeding is very important to factor in on where you send your horse.
I am not talking about 2-3 generations back, I am taking sire and dam.
I had one mare who we traced back 3 generations of buckers all on the bottom side, my mares foals bucked, if you could get by them, they were amazing horses. I had two very nice barrel horses out of her, and some canners. I never furthered the line.
I have two colts by a stud who would kill you if he could, he was untrainable. The regular trainer I used told me they wouldn't fit into his program, I was sent to another trainer who did an amazing job on the first, couldn't get by the second, sent the second to an English trainer and now she is a dream.
Some bloodlines cannot handle certain training programs, as the horse owner, you need to know the horse you are sending to see if the horse and trainer are compatible |
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 Regular
Posts: 95
Location: Texas | Who is your trainer in Texas? If my yearling filly doesn't sell soon, I will be looking for one in the near future. thanks NM I saw the videos & figured it out lol.
Edited by shotsfly 2015-11-26 4:34 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | My mentor trains exclusively using Buck Brannaman/Ray Hunt methods and there hasn't been a single horse, no matter breed, age or how much they've been handled, that he couldn't ride in three days, or work them on the ranch in 30. NOW, I'm not saying myself or the owners could have some of those same horses working like that in that amount of time, but he is someone who has dedicated his life to this style of horsemanship. What I'm getting at is 30 days can have a horse far along-- no matter the background-- if the right training methods are utilized. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Wish we had a really good colt breaker on the east cost.
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I agree with Bear, you get what you pay for. I too had a hard time finding someone to break my colt on the East Coast. I knew I couldn't visit reguarly and needed to do research. I sent her to OK and she'll be there for 5 months, yes expensive, but he has a wonderful reputation and updates me regularly. Research, RESEARCH, and research again! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | daisycake123 - 2015-11-27 5:57 AM
Wish we had a really good colt breaker on the east cost.
I bet you do.
The question being argued here is a mute point, really. How far along a horse is at 30 days is very subjective. Some trainers choose to get on sooner so that is time differentiation as well. Also, how much time does the person spend each day with the horse and what are the charges for doing so.
Bottom line is there are a lot of good trainers all across this country. Look for one with talent, knowledge, and honesty and you will most likely be happy with the results. There is nothing magic to training horses and most horses will learn at the pace that best suits them. EVERY good horse trainer I have ever met knows this. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Tdove - 2015-11-27 8:51 AM daisycake123 - 2015-11-27 5:57 AM Wish we had a really good colt breaker on the east cost. I bet you do. The question being argued here is a mute point, really. How far along a horse is at 30 days is very subjective. Some trainers choose to get on sooner so that is time differentiation as well. Also, how much time does the person spend each day with the horse and what are the charges for doing so. Bottom line is there are a lot of good trainers all across this country. Look for one with talent, knowledge, and honesty and you will most likely be happy with the results. There is nothing magic to training horses and most horses will learn at the pace that best suits them. EVERY good horse trainer I have ever met knows this.
Where they are in 30 days IS very subjective. Some look good and are showing everything they can do at 30 days. But some of them that may seem less far along may in reality just really, really have that base and advance by leaps and bounds in the next 10 rides or so.
WHAT they can do is only part of the question, how they are doing things is as important if not more so. Look at the willingness and softness of Amys colts vs some other vids posted. Rodney is freaky good for sure and it shows. His colts aren't busting out flying lead changes but they aren't trying them and doing them wrong. Instead they are soft, willing and ready to roll
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: In the wrong place at the wrong time | daisycake123 - 2015-11-27 6:57 AM
Wish we had a really good colt breaker on the east cost.
There is a really good one in PA.
Pm me if you'd like his info. |
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