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| I just purchased a mare that is a little more than track broke. She passed all vet checks (only raced as a 4 and 5 year, 6 outs) so no health issues. She seems to always cross canter when she is free lunging. Is this just something she needs to learn or should i be concerned with an underlying issue that didnt test? I have never had one cross canter in both directions. i dont know if its a balance thing for her or if she just doesnt know how to use herself properly. Anyone deal with this? Riding, canters properly.
Video of her being lunged
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyb7DmhIOHk
Video of her on her own
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dbsuCSMCo
Edited by htaucher1 2015-12-14 7:11 AM
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
  
Location: So. Cali. | htaucher1 - 2015-12-08 7:24 AM I just purchased a mare that is a little more than track broke. She passed all vet checks (only raced as a 4 and 5 year, 6 outs) so no health issues. She seems to always cross canter when she is free lunging. Is this just something she needs to learn or should i be concerned with an underlying issue that didnt test? I have never had one cross canter in both directions. i dont know if its a balance thing for her or if she just doesnt know how to use herself properly. Anyone deal with this? Riding, canters properly.
Does she still have her track set of shoes on or have you had her long enough to atleast get her feet done?
Could easily be a training issue with them, could always be a number of things, but I'd aim at training issue first if she passed vet.
I ask about the shoes because some of those track shoeing jobs are quite damaging. It's good to get those suckers off asap.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I know you vetted her.
What was she doing when you bought her? If she was standing, you bringing her back to work can cause soreness. I'd check her hocks and stifles again. Crossfiring isn't something they do for fun, it would be like you forgetting how to climb in the pickup. Easy when you're healthy, but difficult with an injury. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Are you loping larger circles under saddle than she is being asked to work while free longeing? |
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Veteran
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| Three*C*Champs - 2015-12-08 11:16 AM htaucher1 - 2015-12-08 7:24 AM I just purchased a mare that is a little more than track broke. She passed all vet checks (only raced as a 4 and 5 year, 6 outs) so no health issues. She seems to always cross canter when she is free lunging. Is this just something she needs to learn or should i be concerned with an underlying issue that didnt test? I have never had one cross canter in both directions. i dont know if its a balance thing for her or if she just doesnt know how to use herself properly. Anyone deal with this? Riding, canters properly. Does she still have her track set of shoes on or have you had her long enough to atleast get her feet done?
Could easily be a training issue with them, could always be a number of things, but I'd aim at training issue first if she passed vet.
I ask about the shoes because some of those track shoeing jobs are quite damaging. It's good to get those suckers off asap.
She had just had her track shows removed. she seems to have solid feet, no ouchies at all on any ground. I have my farrier coming out shortly. |
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Veteran
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| classicpotatochip - 2015-12-08 12:07 PM I know you vetted her. What was she doing when you bought her? If she was standing, you bringing her back to work can cause soreness. I'd check her hocks and stifles again. Crossfiring isn't something they do for fun, it would be like you forgetting how to climb in the pickup. Easy when you're healthy, but difficult with an injury.
She had just cpome off the track and was outside 24/7. she is very fit so i dont think she was sitting long. |
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Veteran
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| WrapSnap - 2015-12-08 12:10 PM Are you loping larger circles under saddle than she is being asked to work while free longeing?
the circles are definatly larger while riding. we aren't very good at bending/flesxing yet. |
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| htaucher1 - 2015-12-08 9:24 AM
I just purchased a mare that is a little more than track broke. She passed all vet checks (only raced as a 4 and 5 year, 6 outs) so no health issues. She seems to always cross canter when she is free lunging. Is this just something she needs to learn or should i be concerned with an underlying issue that didnt test? I have never had one cross canter in both directions. i dont know if its a balance thing for her or if she just doesnt know how to use herself properly. Anyone deal with this? Riding, canters properly.
Riding, canters properly
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Race horses are taught to get on the correct lead and to do their flying lead changes by tipping their nose in the opposite direction of the lead you want ..
i.e. tip nose to the right to open up the left shoulder and whack or smooch to get the horse to move out into the left lead and into a lope ... do the opposite for the right lead
Watch closely and even pause the American Pharoah video at 1:54 thru 1:59 to see jockey's hands do a fast rein movement .. watch his left elbow lift up right at the black inside pole to move AP to his right lead to run down the stretch ... this is his fresh side and gives him the fresh muscle energy to maintain his momentum ... you will see a lot of races lost due to jockey NOT switching leads coming out of the far turn!!
https://youtu.be/weKIGbOKHyE
For the time being ... only trot in the round pen .. and do your pickup the lead changes while riding ... horse will get more settled into using both leads ... once he has no mistakes ... then ramp it up in the round pen by scaring the crap out of him to move from trot to lead without restricting his head and see if he will pick up both front and rear leads ... keep in mind the left lead is the prominent lead used in racing ... due to races being counter clockwise and the 3+ gallops they get per week may have a knucklehead exercise rider that will not change to the right leads in the straightaways ...
GOOD LUCK ..
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| Here is a video of my 10 yo daughter loping her. I see no lameness issues buti am not a vet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_muLUgcDA0 |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | htaucher1 - 2015-12-08 9:24 AM
I just purchased a mare that is a little more than track broke. She passed all vet checks (only raced as a 4 and 5 year, 6 outs) so no health issues. She seems to always cross canter when she is free lunging. Is this just something she needs to learn or should i be concerned with an underlying issue that didnt test? I have never had one cross canter in both directions. i dont know if its a balance thing for her or if she just doesnt know how to use herself properly. Anyone deal with this? Riding, canters properly.
I had the same issue. Mine was a balance issue. He didn't know how to properly carry himself in small circles. Worked with him just like I would one I was starting and he is fine now. he needed to learn how to bend his ribcage and stay collected so that his back end was moving with his front end instead of all over the place. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
She has her leads in this video, she does look a little tight, but thats a small area that shes loping in, I would check your saddle and make sure its not to tight in the withers.. |
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| FYI horses that go to the track know their leads...no like a reiner or cutter, but they know how to stay and switch leads....it is usually taught to them their yearling year or so....they need to know how to switch leads coming down the back side. All our yearling sales prep babies know how to switch leads at time of sale. |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | While horses coming off of the track are physically strong in many ways, they are also conditioned for a specific job. The muscles and balance that they have built are far different from those required to lope a small circle. I would focus on continuing to build proper strength and balance under saddle. The more that she goes around like this in the round pen, the more improper muscling is built. |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| I will get some video of her tonight lunging. maybe that will help you guys se if its a balance issue or stifle/etc issue. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1032
Location: IL | WrapSnap - 2015-12-08 12:40 PM While horses coming off of the track are physically strong in many ways, they are also conditioned for a specific job. The muscles and balance that they have built are far different from those required to lope a small circle. I would focus on continuing to build proper strength and balance under saddle. The more that she goes around like this in the round pen, the more improper muscling is built.
^^^This exactly. It took quite awhile for my OTTB mare to be able to canter a small circle. I started out with large circles and slowly started conditioning her to small circles over time. She just didn't have the muscle strength/conditioning to carry herself in a small circle at first. |
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Elite Veteran
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I don't see any lameness, but I think she is not conditioned to the circles yet. That's a pretty small circle when all they are used to doing is running straight. I would try to find a bigger area so you can do a bit bigger circles until she gets more accustomed to them.
How long have you had her? How many rides had she had off the track in that video? |
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest | Track broke is far from broke for barrel racing! You maybe need to send to a trainer. |
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She is favoring her right front ... either in the shoulder or in the knee ...
Look for a small less than 1 inch scar on either side of her right front knee for a bone chip removal ... or she may have a floating chip right now or some cartilage damage ..
Watch her short step that RF ... and it falter when moving forward ...
What's the allbreed pedigree on this mare??
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-12-09 4:01 AM
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Veteran
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| BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-12-09 4:56 AM She is favoring her right front ... either in the shoulder or in the knee ... Look for a small less than 1 inch scar on either side of her right front knee for a bone chip removal ... or she may have a floating chip right now or some cartilage damage .. Watch her short step that RF ... and it falter when moving forward ... What's the allbreed pedigree on this mare??
I dont see the short step. its hard to see much since she's so high headed and not using herself very well. Anyone else see that? i want to make sure i take care of this mare so if i need to have a second opinion, i will. She has no scars on her knees. The people I bought her from owned her from birth so they know everything about her. Most of her conditioning was done via swimming. |
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| skye - 2015-12-08 9:11 PM Track broke is far from broke for barrel racing! You maybe need to send to a trainer.
This mare heads to the trainer on 12/19 for a few months. I cant put 5/6 days a week on her so she heads south. :) |
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| FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-12-08 7:55 PM I don't see any lameness, but I think she is not conditioned to the circles yet. That's a pretty small circle when all they are used to doing is running straight. I would try to find a bigger area so you can do a bit bigger circles until she gets more accustomed to them. How long have you had her? How many rides had she had off the track in that video?
I have owned her less than a month. She's had maybe 20/30 rides post track so i think she looks fabulous! just making sure her issue is a learning thing, not a lameness/stifle thing. the cross-firing is a flag but she only does it in small circles, not larger ones nor when riding. I'm limited here in Michigan for places to ride in December with footing that isnt hard. she just had her shoes pulled so i dont want to add strain by putting her on rough hard ground. |
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| I was able to get some videos this weekend. I added them to the original post. |
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 Take a Picture
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| htaucher1 - 2015-12-09 7:12 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-12-09 4:56 AM She is favoring her right front ... either in the shoulder or in the knee ... Look for a small less than 1 inch scar on either side of her right front knee for a bone chip removal ... or she may have a floating chip right now or some cartilage damage .. Watch her short step that RF ... and it falter when moving forward ... What's the allbreed pedigree on this mare??
Yes, I see a very slight short step too. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Watched the videos, yep something is definitely wrong. I would take her to vet and bring those videos with you, before she goes to the trainer. Horses just don't crossfire or travel like that without an issue. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| In the riding video, I do see something with the front end, but can't pin point it as she is only trotting 2 strides.
In the pasture one, near the beginning of the video, I see her stabbing her toe into the ground on the back left twice, this could mean hocks or stifle.
How thorough was the vet check, flexion, X-rays?
I would have chiro out, if that doesn't help, then I would go to a lameness specialist |
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Veteran
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Location: Heart of Texas | I think your mare is sound. She just doesn't know how to carry herself properly. I went thru this with my very one sided mare when I bought her and honestly 3 years down the road she'll still do it evey now and then when doing a flying lead change. It was ingrained in her head to carry a left lead. She didn't even know how to lounge. Whoever raced her did a horrible job training and balancing her. Had they done a better job she probably woulda won a lot more money. But their loss, my gain. No fault of her own. I think with the proper training your pony will be just fine. |
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Veteran
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| jewishprincess - 2015-12-14 11:51 AM I think your mare is sound. She just doesn't know how to carry herself properly. I went thru this with my very one sided mare when I bought her and honestly 3 years down the road she'll still do it evey now and then when doing a flying lead change. It was ingrained in her head to carry a left lead. She didn't even know how to lounge. Whoever raced her did a horrible job training and balancing her. Had they done a better job she probably woulda won a lot more money. But their loss, my gain. No fault of her own. I think with the proper training your pony will be just fine.
I like your opinion the best! my vet is coming tomorrow to check her. id rather be safe than sorry with lameness issues. my trainer advised the same. But i'm mentally going with yours! |
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 Loves to compete
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Location: Oakdale, CA | htaucher1 - 2015-12-14 9:55 AM jewishprincess - 2015-12-14 11:51 AM I think your mare is sound. She just doesn't know how to carry herself properly. I went thru this with my very one sided mare when I bought her and honestly 3 years down the road she'll still do it evey now and then when doing a flying lead change. It was ingrained in her head to carry a left lead. She didn't even know how to lounge. Whoever raced her did a horrible job training and balancing her. Had they done a better job she probably woulda won a lot more money. But their loss, my gain. No fault of her own. I think with the proper training your pony will be just fine. I like your opinion the best! my vet is coming tomorrow to check her. id rather be safe than sorry with lameness issues. my trainer advised the same. But i'm mentally going with yours!
she is a nice mover. Now I know the video was for us to watch but I would never let my horse continue cross cantering. To me it just looks really easy for her. You may just have to train it out of her. I would make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard... |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
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Location: sunny california | i am pretty sure i saw her left stifle catch in the pasture video |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I see a horse that needs some myofascia work. Simple fix and a very common issue in horses off the track. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 216
| I own an OTTB that does that all the time. It is a training issue. When she raises her head she is hollowing her back and she is not using herself properly. Stabbing toes could be her toes are too long. Also, keep in mind that her racing plates just came off and she could be ouchy. TB's are known for flat and tender feet and their toes are usually kept long on the track with little to no heal. I would make sure you train her to use herself correctly and from the rear rather than pulling with the front. Working her in a frame will strengthen muscles that she hasn't had to use and small tight circles are going to be hard on her stifles. Hope this helps :)
Edited by kathyward01 2015-12-14 7:11 PM
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Take a Picture
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| kwanatha - 2015-12-14 2:32 PM
i am pretty sure i saw her left stifle catch in the pasture video
If you watch that pasture video carefully there definitely is a stutter step on one hind leg. Hard to tell when a horse is prancing. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I see a horse that hasnt been worked into this.. her balance and strength is not ready.. the circles are small and shes not able to do this yet.. I also dont feel the she is ready for the poles serpentines yet ..her muscles could be sore from that to. it is like going from running straight cardio to doing alot of gymnastics in a short month.. its impossible really without developing properly and doing simple basic suppleing and flexing. Id start her slow and large areas and be doing more slow work and not framing her up but slowly conditioning her differant muscles in short spurts.. not long sessions but id definately not be doing the small circles and the serpentine pole things your daughter was doing at this time.. .after the trainer works thru some things she should be able to tell you if its more a vet issue or a chiro issue or the proper avenue to take.... .. but shes a nice mare.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-12-14 10:36 PM
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Veteran
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| Bibliafarm - 2015-12-14 11:33 PM I see a horse that hasnt been worked into this.. her balance and strength is not ready.. the circles are small and shes not able to do this yet.. I also dont feel the she is ready for the poles serpentines yet ..her muscles could be sore from that to. it is like going from running straight cardio to doing alot of gymnastics in a short month.. its impossible really without developing properly and doing simple basic suppleing and flexing. Id start her slow and large areas and be doing more slow work and not framing her up but slowly conditioning her differant muscles in short spurts.. not long sessions but id definately not be doing the small circles and the serpentine pole things your daughter was doing at this time.. .after the trainer works thru some things she should be able to tell you if its more a vet issue or a chiro issue or the proper avenue to take.... .. but shes a nice mare.
I had my daughter trot the serpentines just to see if she was willing. It was more of a personality check than a readiness check. That isnt a normal thing we work on at this stage. I have only had her a few weeks so i am spending most of my time with leg pressure and flexing. That is all very new to her. |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | htaucher1 - 2015-12-15 8:08 AM Bibliafarm - 2015-12-14 11:33 PM I see a horse that hasnt been worked into this.. her balance and strength is not ready.. the circles are small and shes not able to do this yet.. I also dont feel the she is ready for the poles serpentines yet ..her muscles could be sore from that to. it is like going from running straight cardio to doing alot of gymnastics in a short month.. its impossible really without developing properly and doing simple basic suppleing and flexing. Id start her slow and large areas and be doing more slow work and not framing her up but slowly conditioning her differant muscles in short spurts.. not long sessions but id definately not be doing the small circles and the serpentine pole things your daughter was doing at this time.. .after the trainer works thru some things she should be able to tell you if its more a vet issue or a chiro issue or the proper avenue to take.... .. but shes a nice mare. I had my daughter trot the serpentines just to see if she was willing. It was more of a personality check than a readiness check. That isnt a normal thing we work on at this stage. I have only had her a few weeks so i am spending most of my time with leg pressure and flexing. That is all very new to her.
Ok..its always hard to know the process of others on here.. shes a beautiful mare ..with shoes on and off and new way of being ridden it could be just a adjustment for her muscles and body. if she passed vet check Id probrably let the trainer work her for a week and reevaulate her..then have vet out if she feels thats the avenue to take.. or chiro or ...... |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
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Location: Opelousas, LA | htaucher1 - 2015-12-09 7:12 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-12-09 4:56 AM She is favoring her right front ... either in the shoulder or in the knee ... Look for a small less than 1 inch scar on either side of her right front knee for a bone chip removal ... or she may have a floating chip right now or some cartilage damage .. Watch her short step that RF ... and it falter when moving forward ... What's the allbreed pedigree on this mare??
There is your problem. Have you ever watched a horse swim? Thier head is up and back hollowed plus it can be hard on stifles. I think it will just take time to retrain your mare to carry herself correctly on the ground and in circles, she just has no idea how to use herself correctly. If there are any soreness issues I think they are minor and can be corrected with massage therapy. |
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Track Broke question - VIDEOS ADDED