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| The other thread got me thinking, what do you feel needs to be disclosed in ads vs upon contact with the seller?
Do you feel everything needs to be put right into the ad? Where do you draw the line of wanting to be upfront vs putting all of your personal business out there? What about past issues vs current issues? Yes, any past issues should be disclosed to a potential buyer before purchase but putting a horses complete medical history seems a bit over the top doesn't it? What about illness vs. lameness? Interested to hear what potential buyers think about all of it.
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Expert
Posts: 2685
  
| I personally like all current issues/illnesses to be in the add. Past issues/illnesses can be discussed later (IF the past issue/illness does not cause current issues/illness). |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: California | Here's what I like to see in ads:
Bloodlines (if known/not grade)
Training History (if any & not who, but WHAT can the horse do?)
ANY type of lameness or illness at present time. (now if it's a weanling/yearling there is not much past there, so might as well post all issues if any)
Basically I see A LOT of sellers who list "serious buyers only", and with that I do not want to feel like I am driving a seller crazy. There are a lot of questions that can go into buying a horse & I don't want to feel like I have to ask basic questions. If I were to buy said horse, then obviously I'm going to want a complete medical history of the horse. That's not until later. But I've seen a lot of sellers that hardly put more than a picture in an ad & then get frustrated with answering questions.
Another one I don't care for is "Private Treaty". To me this just tells me the horse is most likely WAY out of my price zone or it tells me the horse is $20K & up. That's fine, but I can't stand when sellers put that & then put "serious buyers only", then get mad when your not interested upon learning the horse is way out of range.
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| ccarpe18 - 2015-12-22 12:36 PM
Here's what I like to see in ads:
Bloodlines (if known/not grade)
Training History (if any & not who, but WHAT can the horse do?)
ANY type of lameness or illness at present time. (now if it's a weanling/yearling there is not much past there, so might as well post all issues if any)
Basically I see A LOT of sellers who list "serious buyers only", and with that I do not want to feel like I am driving a seller crazy. There are a lot of questions that can go into buying a horse & I don't want to feel like I have to ask basic questions. If I were to buy said horse, then obviously I'm going to want a complete medical history of the horse. That's not until later. But I've seen a lot of sellers that hardly put more than a picture in an ad & then get frustrated with answering questions.
Another one I don't care for is "Private Treaty". To me this just tells me the horse is most likely WAY out of my price zone or it tells me the horse is $20K & up. That's fine, but I can't stand when sellers put that & then put "serious buyers only", then get mad when your not interested upon learning the horse is way out of range.
I agree with this...
I like to know current issues in the ad because I wont inquire if it isnt worth dealing with in my opinion. Everyone has different deal breakers. I also want to know any past issues in first email to the seller, maybe an old surgery or something that is significant. Also maintenance is a good thing to disclose early on and some may or may not be willing to upkeep that.
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I sold a very well bred 3 year old filly a few years ago, had 30 days under saddle. I had all the pertinent info in her add, videos, pics etc. I did not have in the add that she had a collapsed vein from IV treatment for an abscess. If the caller was a serious buyer I told them of her health history and the vein issue before they took the time and made the effort to come see her. I sold her sight unseen in 2 weeks here on BHW, I released all vet records and took her to the vet of their choice for vet check.
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-12-22 4:02 PM
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
Most sellers don't put negative things in the ads, because potential buyers will stop reading and go on to the next ad. I've had them disclose when I got there to try the prospect, which isn't right, especially when you have a long travel time. I think it should be disclosed before the buyer looks at the horse, but since there is no regulation, it doesn't have to be.
The lack of disclosure that has always happened will continue - buyers just need to be real careful and deal these situations. The only way to deal with them after purchase is litigation.
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  Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | Runaway - 2015-12-22 4:09 PM
Most sellers don't put negative things in the ads, because potential buyers will stop reading and go on to the next ad. I've had them disclose when I got there to try the prospect, which isn't right, especially when you have a long travel time. I think it should be disclosed before the buyer looks at the horse, but since there is no regulation, it doesn't have to be.
The lack of disclosure that has always happened will continue - buyers just need to be real careful and deal these situations. The only way to deal with them after purchase is litigation.
I agree...sometimes all you need to say is "maintenance needed" and the buyer can call to get details, but I have deal breakers that I want to know up front to save a trip. That said, I've looked at several horses that had "issues" that were not disclosed prior to the trip and I wasted my time...I think most buyers think if they can just get you to look at the horse, you will come closer to buying...wrong! |
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 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| personally I would be horribly embarrassed if someone drove hours to look at one of my horses to find a problem with them.. I have always been very blunt. I don't negotiate on price but I also will answer every question with a smile even if its silly because I AM selling but I also think it weeds out a lot of tire kickers being upfront. No I will not trade unless I have listed, price is firm, the horse has ABC good qualities and ABC bad qualities. (I'm not in the business of making money buying and selling horses though..i loath it actually)
Edited by Thistle2011 2015-12-22 5:29 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Cindy Hamilton - 2015-12-22 4:52 PM
Runaway - 2015-12-22 4:09 PM
Most sellers don't put negative things in the ads, because potential buyers will stop reading and go on to the next ad. I've had them disclose when I got there to try the prospect, which isn't right, especially when you have a long travel time. I think it should be disclosed before the buyer looks at the horse, but since there is no regulation, it doesn't have to be.
The lack of disclosure that has always happened will continue - buyers just need to be real careful and deal these situations. The only way to deal with them after purchase is litigation.
I agree...sometimes all you need to say is "maintenance needed" and the buyer can call to get details, but I have deal breakers that I want to know up front to save a trip. That said, I've looked at several horses that had "issues" that were not disclosed prior to the trip and I wasted my time...I think most buyers think if they can just get you to look at the horse, you will come closer to buying...wrong!
Not picking on you, but question.
What type of questions do you ask these individuals?
Are these individuals deliberately lying, or not answering the question fully? |
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | I have found that the only important thing to put is level of rider needed and if horse, bucks, kicks, or loads!! All the rest can be discussed on the phone!! It amazes me how many people will call and say they are looking for a horse for their 5 year old and the ad clearly says GREEN or not for kids!! Lol |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | i tend to skip over the ads that say 100% sound |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I disclose in an ad things such as bleeding, a horse's maintenance schedule, etc... I will not list every cosmetic blemish. Things of a large nature, which might be deal breakers to some are there for the reading. I will disclose anything further, or answer specific questions upon inquiry. |
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| How about horses that tie-up, allergies, or have a high tendancy to get abcesses on a regular basis? Things that can be managed but could be a problem? Do you say some maintenace or directly outline them?
Or horses that have been treated for things like lymes, tric, minor cases of EPM, etc. that made a full recovery with no residual issues? In the ad or before coming to try the horse? |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | Aside from soundness issues, the problem is what one person thinks isn't a 'disclosure' another person thinks it is. The important thing is the ASK! As a buyer, we know we are willing to put up with. It would be impossible as a seller to list every single detail. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | ccarpe18 - 2015-12-22 12:36 PM Here's what I like to see in ads:
Bloodlines (if known/not grade)
Training History (if any & not who, but WHAT can the horse do?)
ANY type of lameness or illness at present time. (now if it's a weanling/yearling there is not much past there, so might as well post all issues if any)
Basically I see A LOT of sellers who list "serious buyers only", and with that I do not want to feel like I am driving a seller crazy. There are a lot of questions that can go into buying a horse & I don't want to feel like I have to ask basic questions. If I were to buy said horse, then obviously I'm going to want a complete medical history of the horse. That's not until later. But I've seen a lot of sellers that hardly put more than a picture in an ad & then get frustrated with answering questions.
Another one I don't care for is "Private Treaty". To me this just tells me the horse is most likely WAY out of my price zone or it tells me the horse is $20K & up. That's fine, but I can't stand when sellers put that & then put "serious buyers only", then get mad when your not interested upon learning the horse is way out of range.
I cannot stand the Private Treaty/Serious Buyers Only... but I can understand it if you're selling a six figure horse and you want to weed out people who think six grand is over the top to ask for a horse. I don't inquire about those horses, but it was kind of frustrating when I was looking at a weanling and his ad stated that... I was a serious buyer had the horse been in my price range, but it was embarrassing not being prepared for that kind of price. I see that the owner must have eventually gotten tired of the inquires because she finally stated a price in the horse's ad.
Don't give up hope on a horse if you really like it and think it should be in your price range. I happened to look at the private treaty ads one afternoon and found a mare I asked about. She wasn't out of budget (and I didn't have a $20k budget) and I would up buying her. I kind of like how it was PT because I'd rather not have everyone know what I paid for her. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| In my ad I disclose all major things so the buyer is aware before they take the time to call me such as current issues, maintenance, and results. I also include videos/pictures. However i had a potential buyer call that lived 1500 miles away and the horse had some important maintenance. The potential buyer was highly offended and very rude to me when I asked for references from them. I don't know them at all and they were buying sight unseen. They said I needed to disclose in my ad I would require references. But I only did for them because of distance and there story wasn't adding up. |
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Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | cheryl makofka - 2015-12-22 7:16 PM Cindy Hamilton - 2015-12-22 4:52 PM Runaway - 2015-12-22 4:09 PM
Most sellers don't put negative things in the ads, because potential buyers will stop reading and go on to the next ad. I've had them disclose when I got there to try the prospect, which isn't right, especially when you have a long travel time. I think it should be disclosed before the buyer looks at the horse, but since there is no regulation, it doesn't have to be.
The lack of disclosure that has always happened will continue - buyers just need to be real careful and deal these situations. The only way to deal with them after purchase is litigation.
I agree...sometimes all you need to say is "maintenance needed" and the buyer can call to get details, but I have deal breakers that I want to know up front to save a trip. That said, I've looked at several horses that had "issues" that were not disclosed prior to the trip and I wasted my time...I think most buyers think if they can just get you to look at the horse, you will come closer to buying...wrong! Not picking on you, but question. What type of questions do you ask these individuals? Are these individuals deliberately lying, or not answering the question fully?
Fair question...I believe most people don't deliberatley lie, although it's buyer beware, and I have probably looked at hundreds of horses and can say most of the time if there is a problem it's not because the seller lied, it's because they are clueless....
I take full responsibility for what I buy based on what I see. I've looked at A LOT of horses that were not as advertised or matched what was told on the phone, but it didn't have as much to do with physical problems as much as training (lack of training) issues....If I felt like I could handle the issues, I made offers...but I have to say that I felt sorry for most of the people with horses that are bad actors...my thinking is it's never a horse problem, it's always a people problem...
A lot of my questions depend on the price of the horse...I have a price limit that I won't vet check and I'm willing to deal with certain training issues and it's around $7500... I just don't expect a lot for that price...I'm capable of checking acupuncture points and testing for soreness and I'm pretty confident that I can weed out most anything I don't want physically. On higher priced horses, I'm pickier and I do vet check them.
I actually don't have a lot of deal breakers and they are mainly physical, the rest is subjective and you have to look and get on them to see how they feel....
I want to see these things listed in an ad because I won't go look at them....cribber (light cribber is BS, they either crib or they don't), navicular or needs special shoes, club foot, do they have a history of bucking or rearing...for what it's worth I ask if they are sound and what type of bit/tie down they use and why....everone likes something different, you got to look at a lot of frogs to find the prince. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Cindy Hamilton - 2015-12-23 12:25 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-12-22 7:16 PM Cindy Hamilton - 2015-12-22 4:52 PM Runaway - 2015-12-22 4:09 PM
Most sellers don't put negative things in the ads, because potential buyers will stop reading and go on to the next ad. I've had them disclose when I got there to try the prospect, which isn't right, especially when you have a long travel time. I think it should be disclosed before the buyer looks at the horse, but since there is no regulation, it doesn't have to be.
The lack of disclosure that has always happened will continue - buyers just need to be real careful and deal these situations. The only way to deal with them after purchase is litigation.
I agree...sometimes all you need to say is "maintenance needed" and the buyer can call to get details, but I have deal breakers that I want to know up front to save a trip. That said, I've looked at several horses that had "issues" that were not disclosed prior to the trip and I wasted my time...I think most buyers think if they can just get you to look at the horse, you will come closer to buying...wrong! Not picking on you, but question. What type of questions do you ask these individuals? Are these individuals deliberately lying, or not answering the question fully?
I take full responsibility for what I buy based on what I see. I've looked at A LOT of horses that were not as advertised or matched what was told on the phone, but it didn't have as much to do with physical problems as much as training (lack of training) issues....If I felt like I could handle the issues, I made offers...but I have to say that I felt sorry for most of the people with horses that are bad actors...my thinking is it's never a horse problem, it's always a people problem...
A lot of my questions depend on the price of the horse...I have a price limit that I won't vet check and I'm willing to deal with certain training issues and it's around $7500... I just don't expect a lot for that price...I'm capable of checking acupuncture points and testing for soreness and I'm pretty confident that I can weed out most anything I don't want physically. On higher priced horses, I'm pickier and I do vet check them.
I actually don't have a lot of deal breakers and they are mainly physical, the rest is subjective and you have to look and get on them to see how they feel....
I want to see these things listed in an ad because I won't go look at them....cribber (light cribber is BS, they either crib or they don't), navicular or needs special shoes, club foot, do they have a history of bucking or rearing...for what it's worth I ask if they are sound and what type of bit/tie down they use and why....everone likes something different, you got to look at a lot of frogs to find the prince.
I recently drove to Oklahoma to look at a horse... planned on buying. He wasnt expensive but also had been sitting for a year and a half since being off the track. I dont think the owner deliberately lied to me, she sent videos and was very prompt with everything. But when I went down there, I checked his back and he literally sat on the ground. he also had some goofy hoof angles that bothered me more than they would have bothered others I am guessing. I dont think she knew about the back, I dont think she really even touched him. And the feet she may just not have the eye for it. As it was minor and most I think would have looked past it.
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | a trip is aways cheaper than getting stuck with lame horse. Hubby and I go looking and just expect to get a trip and eat out, sadly most of the time I come home empty handed. I finally broke down and bought babies |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| AnotherRound - 2015-12-23 9:43 AM
How about horses that tie-up, allergies, or have a high tendancy to get abcesses on a regular basis? Things that can be managed but could be a problem? Do you say some maintenace or directly outline them?
Or horses that have been treated for things like lymes, tric, minor cases of EPM, etc. that made a full recovery with no residual issues? In the ad or before coming to try the horse?
For your first question, me personally I'd like to see those types of issues labeled as "maintenance", and then if/when I inquire you can tell me about those specific issues.
Quick story, I was looking at a horse quite a ways away from me - talking 12+ hours. Asked the lady if he had any health issues whatsoever and she said no. Got there and said he has moderate allergies and needs to be kept on a supplement that costs ~$60 per month. That is something I would have considered a health issue/maintenance for sure and would have liked to see disclosed.
Recovery type situations I'd like to hear about before coming to see the horse. Doesn't necessarily have to be in the ad but I'd like to know about it beforehand. |
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Member
Posts: 43
| lol...the real story about who raised and started the horse, at any point would be a good disclosure..........esp if they are gonna need to get a brand release.... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| I list anything as far as maintenance and what would be a deal breaker for me. I did sell one horse that I didn’t disclose that he had a hole in his sinus area until the people were there looking at him. It didn’t bother him at all other than he couldn’t eat oats and would have water/snot run out one side of his nose when he was drinking.
A few years ago I bought a gelding and tracked down the previous owner and they asked me if I was going to stand him to the public? I said What?? Oh yeah, the couple I bought him from forgot to mention he had been cut 4 months prior. And I had him in with my mares.  Luckily, when they took his jewels they also must have taken any memory that went along with them! He was 8 years old when I bought him and I just didn't think to ask when he was cut, ha! |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | Temperment, Cold backed, any maintanence issues, etc... I also believe that within 12-24 months, savvy buyers will require a 5 panel result.  |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24953
Location: WYOMING | I ran an ad recently disclosing personality, behavior and a very minor health issue on a very nice horse. Said no beginners, etc. I am still hearing from people saying why did you do that you will never sell her. Well, she didnt sell and is now running 1d (which my ad said she had the potential to do).
I am honest and would have rather her go to the right home where she could flourish... (having been screwed in a sale before I know it sucks.)... guess my home is the right home.
****ed if you do disclose everything, ****ed if you dont. |
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Member
Posts: 29
| As a buyer, full disclosure please! At the very least, in conversation.
I recently drove across country to see numerous horses. Asked a ton of questions. Only two of ten potential horses were what the owner said. One had heaves (since when is that not a health issue??). Went to see three horses at one place. Specifically said QH only. I was very specific as to age, training level etc. Two are paints. Only one was what she said, and his price was jacked up considerably. Bought a wonderful horse that was exactly what the owner said. It means a lot to a buyer to know the good and the bad. |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| veintiocho - 2015-12-23 4:14 PM I list anything as far as maintenance and what would be a deal breaker for me. I did sell one horse that I didn’t disclose that he had a hole in his sinus area until the people were there looking at him. It didn’t bother him at all other than he couldn’t eat oats and would have water/snot run out one side of his nose when he was drinking. A few years ago I bought a gelding and tracked down the previous owner and they asked me if I was going to stand him to the public? I said What?? Oh yeah, the couple I bought him from forgot to mention he had been cut 4 months prior. And I had him in with my mares. Luckily, when they took his jewels they also must have taken any memory that went along with them! He was 8 years old when I bought him and I just didn't think to ask when he was cut, ha!
that sounds more like a cleft palet which can lead to a lot of lung infection
i had a baby borne a daught of first sectrariet he threw a lot of cleft palets we had to put her down 3500 stud fee buried |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| vjls - 2015-12-23 9:33 PM
veintiocho - 2015-12-23 4:14 PM I list anything as far as maintenance and what would be a deal breaker for me. I did sell one horse that I didn’t disclose that he had a hole in his sinus area until the people were there looking at him. It didn’t bother him at all other than he couldn’t eat oats and would have water/snot run out one side of his nose when he was drinking. A few years ago I bought a gelding and tracked down the previous owner and they asked me if I was going to stand him to the public? I said What?? Oh yeah, the couple I bought him from forgot to mention he had been cut 4 months prior. And I had him in with my mares. Luckily, when they took his jewels they also must have taken any memory that went along with them! He was 8 years old when I bought him and I just didn't think to ask when he was cut, ha!
i had a baby borne a daught of first sectrariet he threw a lot of cleft palets we had to put her down 3500 stud fee buried
When I still owned him I took him to the vet as I was worried about the water running out of the left side of his nose when he drank. He was diagnosed with a hole somewhere in his sinus area - the vet said we could scope it just to confirm, but since it wouldn't help/hurt him in any way I declined. He never had any breathing issues and was and still is a competitive rope horse. The only problem he had from it was eating oats.
Edited by veintiocho 2015-12-24 8:51 AM
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Disclosures in ads