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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
  
Location: Georgia | I didn't want to steal the other thread by asking my question and I would like more specific measurements if you all don't mind sharing your feeding secrets.
Currently my horses are on alfalfa twice daily, free range grass and hay, one scoop of a 14/6 grain twice a day with smartpak omega 3 and MSM supplements.
I would like to continue with the supplement however I want to get away from processed feeds. Where should I start and what are your ratios?
Also to add this is being fed to my two broodies(except the supplements) and my two performance mares. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
 
Location: NE Texas | Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 1:02 PM I didn't want to steal the other thread by asking my question and I would like more specific measurements if you all don't mind sharing your feeding secrets. Currently my horses are on alfalfa twice daily, free range grass and hay, one scoop of a 14/6 grain twice a day with smartpak omega 3 and MSM supplements. I would like to continue with the supplement however I want to get away from processed feeds. Where should I start and what are your ratios? Also to add this is being fed to my two broodies(except the supplements) and my two performance mares.
Just change your current grain for whole oats. I only feed a half scoop of whole oats once daily simply to use as a medium for my Cur-OST. Just be sure you're at less than 2 pounds per serving. :) If you're program is working and their hind gut is functioning as it should, you should just need the oats (or any grain) as a medium to serve your supplements. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | I feed 2 1/2 lbs whole oats (probably do not need that much)
Mega-cell vit/min supplement (2 scoops)
Grass hay
to all my horses and vet says she has never seen them look better.
My running/working horses, get the same as above with an additional 2 1/2 lbs of oats in the evening and I add 2 scoops (the loading dose for MSM) and 2 scoops cool calories to help maintain their weight and energy. This is what they get in one day.
I switched from processed feeds in July 2015 and have received nothing but compliments on how my horses look. Saved me a lot of money too!
I think I will be cutting the non working horses down to almost nothing in oats come Spring and I could probably cut my running/working horses down to but I will wait and see when they actually start running/working again! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
Location: Georgia | Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells? |
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 Saint Stacey
| I'm mixing oats, barley, shredded beet pulp and timothy pellets because my forage is mainly alfalfa hay. 50# bag of oats, 50# barley, 40# timothy and I think it's 30# of shreds. I top dress with stabilized rice bran and whole flax. 12-12 loose minerals and THE Muscle Mass. Mine look better than ever and feel WAY too good. I feed approximately 1# of the grain mix once a day. The rice bran and flax are about 1 cup total (1/2 cup each). 1 oz 12-12. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 3:21 PM
Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells?
I just use the Tractor Supply brand and haven't had any problems. I know there is a brand called Racehorse Brand whole oats (or something like that). They are suppose to be better and of course they cost more. I used them in the beginning, they ran out for a time so I had to use Tractor Supply in a pinch and I noticed no difference in my horses. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | ampratt - 2015-12-23 1:48 PM
Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 3:21 PM
Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells?
I just use the Tractor Supply brand and haven't had any problems. I know there is a brand called Racehorse Brand whole oats (or something like that ). They are suppose to be better and of course they cost more. I used them in the beginning, they ran out for a time so I had to use Tractor Supply in a pinch and I noticed no difference in my horses.
I've had good luck with Tractor Supply's oats also. Bought a bag of what was labeled as "Racehorse Oats" recleaned ones...ummm, I'm guessing from the crap that was in them that "recleaned" meant they cleaned up the floor of a feed mill and dumped them in the bag. It was so dusty and had chunks of questionable "things" in it as well as a high percentage of corn. It got dumped out and feed to some very happy deer. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
Location: Georgia | Sounds like I'll be switching over to whole oats once my current feed runs out! I'm excited to try this and I can't wait to see the results! Thanks again everyone! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | When it comes to oats, you get what you pay for. The better oats, the better value. I personally, would not recommend TSC oats. That would be producers pride house brand. They are cheap oats and will have less energy and nutrition. I would recommend Woody's oats if you can find them. They are good oats. Don't be cheap on whole ingredients. It's just like hay or forage. The good stuff is more expensive but a better value and better nutrition. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Keep your alfalfa to 20% of the hay portion for each horse. I agree on the quality grains as TDove explained. You can always send your feed in for analysis. Several really good nutritionist out there now a days to help you out.
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 Expert
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| uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-22 8:10 PM
Keep your alfalfa to 20% of the hay portion for each horse. I agree on the quality grains as TDove explained. You can always send your feed in for analysis. Several really good nutritionist out there now a days to help you out.
What is the purpose of keeping the alfalfa to 20 percent of the forage portion? I feed about 80 percent alfalfa and 20 percent orchard grass. Along with whole oats and rice bran. Just curious on the 20 percent alfalfa. Thanks. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Alfalfa is an awesome equine feed. The legume is the highest quality/feeding value of all forages. It's high in energy and protein, has a good vitamin and mineral profile. It's also very yummy to your horse, keeping it to 20% in performance horses diets keeps it pretty balanced and should keep your horse from gaining weight.
Go to Equi-Analytical and use the trainer profile to help you balance your feed to the horses nutrient requirements. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Not to steal the thred.... I was thinking about going au natural too!!... Trying to save money on my feed bill.
Feed gurus! Help us with formulas.
My tr supply does not have barley.
I was going to do
1-50# oats
1-40# alfalfa pellets
1-40# beet pulp
Mineral suppliment
Should I add a fat source? Bran or amplify? Nutrena boost?ect?
I feel like one horse could benefit from it.
I am switching from safe choice org. My horses are not flourishing on it. Not to mention feed safety.
They get 12#s of coastal a day.
Baled alfalfa is 22.00bucks down here :(
Edited by imturnin3 2015-12-23 8:49 AM
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | This was the worst year for finding decent oats! It's why I switched to the renew gold. They were light (I heard low TW on oats this year) or I had to drive 1.5hrs to spend $20/bag on amazing steamed rolled oats. Don't get me wrong I loved the rolled oats but it was too expensive.. I have debated raising my own and still may next year.. Until then I'm alfalfa 15#/day; 24/7 rye grass/Timothy/orchard grass pasture and 2#renewgold.. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | imturnin3 - 2015-12-23 8:44 AM Not to steal the thred.... I was thinking about going au natural too!!... Trying to save money on my feed bill. Feed gurus! Help us with formulas. My tr supply does not have barley. I was going to do 1-50# oats 1-40# alfalfa pellets 1-40# beet pulp Mineral suppliment Should I add a fat source? Bran or amplify? Nutrena boost?ect? I feel like one horse could benefit from it. I am switching from safe choice org. My horses are not flourishing on it. Not to mention feed safety. They get 12#s of coastal a day. Baled alfalfa is 22.00bucks down here :(
Where do you live? We should be getting a truckload of alfalfa by the first of the year, I am thinking it will be around $25 for the big three string bales.
I think some on here are feeding rice bran with alfalfa and having good results with it. |
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-23 1:55 AM Alfalfa is an awesome equine feed. The legume is the highest quality/feeding value of all forages. It's high in energy and protein, has a good vitamin and mineral profile. It's also very yummy to your horse, keeping it to 20% in performance horses diets keeps it pretty balanced and should keep your horse from gaining weight. Go to Equi-Analytical and use the trainer profile to help you balance your feed to the horses nutrient requirements.
Where is this? Equi-Analytical did my hay test for me and I've been to their website several times but I can't find the "Trainer profile".
Thanks! |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | The best quality oats will come from the north as in Canada. It takes cooler weather to make heavy test weight oats. |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| I get my oats from Bluebonnet. They have awesome race horse oats my horses love. No dust. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| For the people who are feeding oats from feed plants, as I know in some processing plants run whole oats through to clean the lines after running medicated feed through.
I would be looking at seed cleaning plants, grain elevators to buy whole oats from.
Or try and buy some from a local farmer.
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | BS Hauler - 2015-12-23 11:02 AM
The best quality oats will come from the north as in Canada. It takes cooler weather to make heavy test weight oats.
Amen on this! We have raised oats in the past and lucked out. We ran out of space and had oats coming out of our ears! Unfortunately it was a great year for garlic too! I guess the positive with the garlic was low fly problem, lol. I think we fed those oats for at least two years. Stinky fly free horses, lol. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | For those that add shredded beet pulp to their mixture; do you just feed the mix dry?
I'm currently feeding Oats, renew gold, and free choice grass hay. I'd love to add alfalfa but I just can't afford the prices here! I heard if you don't feed alfalfa with the Renew Gold then it's just wasting money. Not sure how true that is. I'm about to order THE Muscle Mass blends as well. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | cheryl makofka - 2015-12-24 9:25 AM
For the people who are feeding oats from feed plants, as I know in some processing plants run whole oats through to clean the lines after running medicated feed through.
I would be looking at seed cleaning plants, grain elevators to buy whole oats from.
Or try and buy some from a local farmer.
I was told they normally use Corn because it is heavier...
TSC oats were just so much cleaner than anything else I've been able to get my hands on around here. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I use oats from Atwood and they are nice and clean. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Tdove - 2015-12-22 7:50 PM
When it comes to oats, you get what you pay for. The better oats, the better value. I personally, would not recommend TSC oats. That would be producers pride house brand. They are cheap oats and will have less energy and nutrition. I would recommend Woody's oats if you can find them. They are good oats. Don't be cheap on whole ingredients. It's just like hay or forage. The good stuff is more expensive but a better value and better nutrition.
I tried feeding Woody's oats but noticed my horses getting lazier on them? Why would that be? I was only able to feed one bag as one of the horses ended up having a hole in his sinus cavity and the oats would come out of his nose as he ate so I had to switch to the cubed Cool Fuel.
If I was to feed oats longer and let the horse's system adjust to them would they have picked back up to their normal energy level?
Edited by veintiocho 2015-12-23 12:20 PM
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Expert
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Location: Willows, CA | Serenity06 - 2015-12-23 11:40 AM
For those that add shredded beet pulp to their mixture; do you just feed the mix dry?
I'm currently feeding Oats, renew gold, and free choice grass hay. I'd love to add alfalfa but I just can't afford the prices here! I heard if you don't feed alfalfa with the Renew Gold then it's just wasting money. Not sure how true that is. I'm about to order THE Muscle Mass blends as well.
We do a lot of diets that use grass hay only with Renew Gold. The issue is not Renew Gold, it is the greater challenge of properly digesting some grass hays. Many grass hay diets use higher amounts of grain based feeds because they are not digesting the grass well to begin with. In effect, they are masking the grass inefficiency with calories from grain. This becomes a vicious circle because increased grain makes even more problems in digesting the roughage. When you drop the amount of grain to the amount that fits in the system, you need to improve digestion of the grass hay to get the most out of it. There are several ways to improve digestion of the grass hay. One is to make sure the horse breaks it up a much as possible by chewing it well. This increases the surface area of the grass hay and makes it much easier to digest. This is why I harp on teeth condition so much. Another benefit to well chewed grass hay is a much lower risk of impaction from long strands of grass hay wrapping around each other to start the foundation of a future blockage. In most cases where people have issues with Renew Gold and straight grass hay the problem is either very poor quality grass hay or a failure to properly chew it so it can be used better. The issue of adding alfalfa to grass hay along with Renew Gold is not about improved energy from the alfalfa, but rather the fact that alfalfa slows the hind gut transit time down so that the grass hay portion of the diet has more time there to be digested. The bloom you see from adding some alfalfa to a grass hay diet is not necessarily from the alfalfa alone, but from the fact that the grass hays are now being much better digested.
Edited by winwillows 2015-12-23 12:34 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
Location: Georgia | Sandok - 2015-12-23 12:15 PM
I get my oats from Bluebonnet. They have awesome race horse oats my horses love. No dust.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but how much are the oats per bag? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
Location: Georgia | Ok, say I switch to oats and rice bran, along with my current supplements, grass hay and alfalfa, what would be the ratios of bran and oats, how much should I feed per day, and would you recommend adding anything additional? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I was in no way bashing Renew Gold! I do like the improvements I've seen in my horses! I agree about the grass hay. In Colorado we had acess to beautiful orchard grass that the horses looked amazing on. Down here in Texas all we have is coastal and I HATE it with a passion. Last year I had access to pasture as well so my horses looked great, this year I no longer have pasture so it's free choice grass hay.
My main mare lost weight and muscle during her 3 month lameness spout but she is gaining it back nicely. My 3yr old paint and 4yr old arab are my issue mainly.
I think I will try the 1 bag oats, 1 bag barley, and 1 bag alfalfa pellets mixture and add in the Renew Gold to their buckets. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Serenity06 - 2015-12-23 1:38 PM
I was in no way bashing Renew Gold! I do like the improvements I've seen in my horses! I agree about the grass hay. In Colorado we had acess to beautiful orchard grass that the horses looked amazing on. Down here in Texas all we have is coastal and I HATE it with a passion. Last year I had access to pasture as well so my horses looked great, this year I no longer have pasture so it's free choice grass hay.
My main mare lost weight and muscle during her 3 month lameness spout but she is gaining it back nicely. My 3yr old paint and 4yr old arab are my issue mainly.
I think I will try the 1 bag oats, 1 bag barley, and 1 bag alfalfa pellets mixture and add in the Renew Gold to their buckets.
I am not familiar with renew gold, but to me it still looks like you have a lot of starches, and not much fat.
I personally won't mix the three bags into one container as I don't believe they should be given at a 1:1:1 ratio. As each product has a different weight per volume.
As people have said do not feed more then 2lbs of oats. Barley I wouldn't feed over 1lb, alfalfa I would feed closer to 3-5 lbs per feeding, or more especially if my horses were not getting the protein content from the hay.
If my horses don't have a nice topline, or needing weight, I add oil and flax. I like oil as I can top dress it, depending on the research you read canola oil is either good or bad, if I get a skinny horse, I will give 1/4-1/2 cup of canola oil per feeding. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| My horse needs a better topping r any suggestions on how to feed for that? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| cheryl makofka - 2015-12-23 1:49 PM
Serenity06 - 2015-12-23 1:38 PM
I was in no way bashing Renew Gold! I do like the improvements I've seen in my horses! I agree about the grass hay. In Colorado we had acess to beautiful orchard grass that the horses looked amazing on. Down here in Texas all we have is coastal and I HATE it with a passion. Last year I had access to pasture as well so my horses looked great, this year I no longer have pasture so it's free choice grass hay.
My main mare lost weight and muscle during her 3 month lameness spout but she is gaining it back nicely. My 3yr old paint and 4yr old arab are my issue mainly.
I think I will try the 1 bag oats, 1 bag barley, and 1 bag alfalfa pellets mixture and add in the Renew Gold to their buckets.
I am not familiar with renew gold, but to me it still looks like you have a lot of starches, and not much fat.
I personally won't mix the three bags into one container as I don't believe they should be given at a 1:1:1 ratio. As each product has a different weight per volume.
As people have said do not feed more then 2lbs of oats. Barley I wouldn't feed over 1lb, alfalfa I would feed closer to 3-5 lbs per feeding, or more especially if my horses were not getting the protein content from the hay.
If my horses don't have a nice topline, or needing weight, I add oil and flax. I like oil as I can top dress it, depending on the research you read canola oil is either good or bad, if I get a skinny horse, I will give 1/4-1/2 cup of canola oil per feeding.
I would feed the renew gold and oats then alfalfa hay and feed your grass hay free choice. I would add EQ Total and Immune from CurOst. And no I don't sell it. Before the bashing starts. Don't feed anymore that 1lb of Whole Oats at a time. That with 1lb of Renew Gold twice a day. Give it a chance. Hopefully Herbie will come on here too and Flitastic. Both have had fantastic results with this type of feeding program. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | As much as I would LOVE to try CurOst I can't afford it. I also don't have local access to quality alfalfa hay. I refuse to pay $14/bale for stalky alfalfa that is so dry it pretty much powderizes when you touch it.
I've been feeding Renew Gold for 3 months now. Bwe feeding Oats for 4. |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | Serenity06 - 2015-12-25 12:42 AM As much as I would LOVE to try CurOst I can't afford it. I also don't have local access to quality alfalfa hay. I refuse to pay $14/bale for stalky alfalfa that is so dry it pretty much powderizes when you touch it. I've been feeding Renew Gold for 3 months now. Bwe feeding Oats for 4.
Have you tried alfalfa cubes? Thats what I used if I can't get good quality alfalfa bales. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | fulltiltfilly - 2015-12-25 6:54 AM Serenity06 - 2015-12-25 12:42 AM As much as I would LOVE to try CurOst I can't afford it. I also don't have local access to quality alfalfa hay. I refuse to pay $14/bale for stalky alfalfa that is so dry it pretty much powderizes when you touch it. I've been feeding Renew Gold for 3 months now. Bwe feeding Oats for 4. Have you tried alfalfa cubes? Thats what I used if I can't get good quality alfalfa bales.
Serenity no you add water dont feed it dry the beet pulp I mean... and I think the alflafa cubes soaked would be great for weight gain.. you do need calories to.. and Id keep it simple.. |
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Saint Stacey
| cheryl makofka - 2015-12-23 10:25 AM
For the people who are feeding oats from feed plants, as I know in some processing plants run whole oats through to clean the lines after running medicated feed through.
I would be looking at seed cleaning plants, grain elevators to buy whole oats from.
Or try and buy some from a local farmer.
Not necessarily. Most places actually use chicken scratch (12,000 tons or so) to clean out with.
Depending on the set up, whole grains can be safer because they aren't having to be mixed. They go from a bin to a cleaner to the bagger and bypass the mixer. The mixer is when things like ionophores are added. Although there still could be cross contamination in the bagging lines if they use the same ones.
I'm not saying to trust a mill that uses ionophores. But rather to research for yourself if you have questions |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| If you can't get good alfalfa, feed the alfalfa pellets and good Timothy hay. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | fulltiltfilly - 2015-12-25 4:54 AM
Serenity06 - 2015-12-25 12:42 AM As much as I would LOVE to try CurOst I can't afford it. I also don't have local access to quality alfalfa hay. I refuse to pay $14/bale for stalky alfalfa that is so dry it pretty much powderizes when you touch it. I've been feeding Renew Gold for 3 months now. Bwe feeding Oats for 4.
Have you tried alfalfa cubes? Thats what I used if I can't get good quality alfalfa bales.
I've been debating whether to go with cubes or pellets... I really hate not having access to all the great hays we had in Colorado! I despise coastal but its all you can find here. I know there is good alfalfa being trucked in but most is hours away. I never really go anywhere regularly. I would LOVE to try Omnis Cubes but those dealers are hours away as well.
I have access to alfalfa pellets and cubes at Tractor Supply, both Standlee and Dumor. I also have access to BlueBonnets Alfalfa/Rice Bran pellets. |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I like pellets better than cubes by far.. I'd still focus on finding some high quality forage instead of going crazy on grain. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 3:21 PM
Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells?
The heavier the oat the better the quality. Also, recleaned oats are better than non recleaned oats. Oats that have been "clipped" are even better. One end of the oats is clipped off giving you more digestible nutrient per pound. The hull (outside) of the oat has no beneficial nutritional value-only filler. The kernel (inside) provides the nutrition-the heavier the oat the bigger the kernel. Steam rolled oats provide more nutrition than whole oats due to the removal of the hull and cracking of the kernel but may not be cost effective as you can feed more whole oats than steam rolled to equal the nutrition out. Steam rolled oats are great for older horses with teeth problems. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The more processed the Oat is the less nutritional value it is. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Bibliafarm - 2015-12-25 8:59 PM
The more processed the Oat is the less nutritional value it is.
I agree, whole oats have the most nutrition. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BMW - 2015-12-25 9:45 PM Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 3:21 PM Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells? The heavier the oat the better the quality. Also, recleaned oats are better than non recleaned oats. Oats that have been "clipped" are even better. One end of the oats is clipped off giving you more digestible nutrient per pound. The hull (outside) of the oat has no beneficial nutritional value-only filler. The kernel (inside) provides the nutrition-the heavier the oat the bigger the kernel. Steam rolled oats provide more nutrition than whole oats due to the removal of the hull and cracking of the kernel but may not be cost effective as you can feed more whole oats than steam rolled to equal the nutrition out. Steam rolled oats are great for older horses with teeth problems.
Actually the Hull keeps the nutrition in .. once removed during processing (steaming , rolling, etc.. ) it loses some nutrition.. its not just a filler.. it has a purpose.Just want to clarify that part.. a good quality clean whole oats are best if horse can chew.. |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| Bibliafarm - 2015-12-26 7:39 AM
BMW - 2015-12-25 9:45 PM Klittle3 - 2015-12-22 3:21 PM Thank you both for sharing! Any particular brand of whole oats or just whatever your local feed store sells? The heavier the oat the better the quality. Also, recleaned oats are better than non recleaned oats. Oats that have been "clipped" are even better. One end of the oats is clipped off giving you more digestible nutrient per pound. The hull (outside) of the oat has no beneficial nutritional value-only filler. The kernel (inside) provides the nutrition-the heavier the oat the bigger the kernel. Steam rolled oats provide more nutrition than whole oats due to the removal of the hull and cracking of the kernel but may not be cost effective as you can feed more whole oats than steam rolled to equal the nutrition out. Steam rolled oats are great for older horses with teeth problems.
Crimping oats can create a loss of nutritional value if the oat is over crimped-turns the kernel into "dust". I bought sack of crimped oats from a local feed mill and the oats had very little value as they had been over crimped-lots of oat dust in the sack. Everything I've read says that rolling the oat increases digestibility and nutritional value. I can see the rolled oat losing value from hull loss only after a long time between rolling and feeding. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I will just say there is alot of opinions on this.. so we can agree to disagree..processing changes things.. |
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Spinoff Thread: Feeding non processed grains/Alfalfa