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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
  
| Quick question, for those that have experience with FG own get, have you had soundness issues once performing or is this just a rumor? Now that I bought a nice mare, I've been told by a handful of people that I will regret hauling her almost every weekend to barrel race, basically since they are not know to stay sound. UGGG. I didn't do any research, I see so many in the barrel and roping pen nationwide I thought it was a great bloodline for performance. I shyed away from a DTF daughter due to hearing tons of soundness problems with them. Just wanted peoples experiences I guess if you care to share good or bad! Thanks!  |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Never heard this about his get, I think they are just jealous.. lol... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-23 8:14 PM
Never heard this about his get, I think they are just jealous.. lol...
LOL I like your thinking!! Merry Christmas  |
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 Saint Stacey
| Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in.
I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I think it depends on the individual. I went to their sale several times and thought for the most part they were on the smaller side and finer boned. Not my cup of tea. But then they started to cross him differently, on mostly race bred mares. We have seen more that are well made now and have the bone we like than before. I get to ride a '07 stud that is out of a super producing Pie In The Sky daughter. He has fantastic bone and all black feet. His intelligence and athletic ability has me hooked. We bred all 4 of our mares to him and I hope to keep one back to ride for myself. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Wild1 - 2015-12-23 8:24 PM Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-23 8:14 PM Never heard this about his get, I think they are just jealous.. lol... LOL I like your thinking!! Merry Christmas
LOL, I just wanted to make sure to make you feel better about your Frenchmans Guy get, I dont own one but never heard anything bad about them.
And a very Merry Christmas to you too.
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 Heeler Hoarder
Posts: 2067
| No I have a 5yo mare that is probably the soundest, best footed horse I own. Now I did inject her hocks and I have heard they can tend to have hock problems maybe because of turning style but I don't think it's anymore than any other high performance barrel horse. As for bone I've had 4 own get and they all have awesome bone my stud colt is so stout with great feet and a ton of bone. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I have started to believe that soundness is more environmental then genetic, or physical (barring blatant abnormalities)
Too much or too little feed can cause significant growth and development problems.
Physical stress, riding before growth plates are fused, slamming their hind end into hard ground, racing on a track, this can cause physical breakdown.
Excessive hauling can be detrimental to the joints as the vibration in the trailers, some vets are now saying this is the biggest reason they are injecting joints.
Farriers, poor angles, too small of shoes, unbalanced all cause problems.
Then there are the freak things that they do to themselves
Edited to add fitness, a lot of horses are injured as a result of not being fit before running
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-12-23 11:21 PM
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I haven't experienced any more soundness issues with my FG get than I have with any other hard running, hard turning horses. I find quite often that people who don't have truly top end stock don't realize just how hard they are on themselves. Of course, that's not to say that every FG is going to be that sort of nice, nor that one with not so impressive breeding can't be just as nice, but you get my gist. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | First let me state that in general I like the FG horses that I have seen. I have never owned one.
However, from looking at videos of FG horses run and the pics in the ads...............the one thing that jumps out is they tend to be too straight in their stifles............this is a generalization of the FG horses that I have observed. This can also be attributed to the mares as easily as it can be attributed to FG.
This is just my opinion from observing. I do agree that most people have no idea how much effort/work it takes to keep any high performance horse sound of body and mind.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-12-23 8:32 PM
I think it depends on the individual. I went to their sale several times and thought for the most part they were on the smaller side and finer boned. Not my cup of tea. But then they started to cross him differently, on mostly race bred mares. We have seen more that are well made now and have the bone we like than before. I get to ride a '07 stud that is out of a super producing Pie In The Sky daughter. He has fantastic bone and all black feet. His intelligence and athletic ability has me hooked. We bred all 4 of our mares to him and I hope to keep one back to ride for myself.
What is the name of the stud? I am starting to look for 2017.... |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | veintiocho - 2015-12-24 7:55 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-12-23 8:32 PM I think it depends on the individual. I went to their sale several times and thought for the most part they were on the smaller side and finer boned. Not my cup of tea. But then they started to cross him differently, on mostly race bred mares. We have seen more that are well made now and have the bone we like than before. I get to ride a '07 stud that is out of a super producing Pie In The Sky daughter. He has fantastic bone and all black feet. His intelligence and athletic ability has me hooked. We bred all 4 of our mares to him and I hope to keep one back to ride for myself. What is the name of the stud? I am starting to look for 2017....
Guys Piece ofthe Pie there is a link to his BHW ad in my signature. He's Future Fortunes and stands for $1000. His first colt crop produced a futurity money earner and multiple 1D winner. |
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| No soundness issues with mine as of yet. Hasn't taken a lame step the 3 years I've had her. She is finer boned and has small feet though. She is out of a race bred mare.
Edited by WrapN3MN 2015-12-25 3:36 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I feel like as with any stallion, it depends on the mare your breeding to. They say a lot comes from the mare. You can't blame the stud if you breed to a mare with hereditary soundness faults weather that be conformation, mental (to much try) or literal bone cysts or early onset of arthritis. I just gave away a 2yo I paid big money for as a weaner because she is so crippled she cant be rode AND has bone cysts that are forming that the vet says if bred, she may pass on. She is by a really nice son of FWF and a daughter of SE. I don't blame the stallion though, and I know the mare was crippled at an early age but I was told founder. Sure makes you wonder.... |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| RoaniePonie11 - 2015-12-26 6:38 AM
I feel like as with any stallion, it depends on the mare your breeding to. They say a lot comes from the mare. You can't blame the stud if you breed to a mare with hereditary soundness faults weather that be conformation, mental (to much try) or literal bone cysts or early onset of arthritis. I just gave away a 2yo I paid big money for as a weaner because she is so crippled she cant be rode AND has bone cysts that are forming that the vet says if bred, she may pass on. She is by a really nice son of FWF and a daughter of SE. I don't blame the stallion though, and I know the mare was crippled at an early age but I was told founder. Sure makes you wonder....
You just hit on one of my sore points about breeding. I have never understood why if a mare did not cut it as a barrel horse or any unsoundness other than injury. WHY DO YOU BREED HER? And than when the colt does not cut it either they blame the stud. Beyond me !!!!!
Edited by jbhoot 2015-12-26 8:15 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| jbhoot - 2015-12-26 7:42 AM
RoaniePonie11 - 2015-12-26 6:38 AM
I feel like as with any stallion, it depends on the mare your breeding to. They say a lot comes from the mare. You can't blame the stud if you breed to a mare with hereditary soundness faults weather that be conformation, mental (to much try) or literal bone cysts or early onset of arthritis. I just gave away a 2yo I paid big money for as a weaner because she is so crippled she cant be rode AND has bone cysts that are forming that the vet says if bred, she may pass on. She is by a really nice son of FWF and a daughter of SE. I don't blame the stallion though, and I know the mare was crippled at an early age but I was told founder. Sure makes you wonder....
You just hit on one of my sore points about breading. I have never understood why if a mare did not cut it as a barrel horse or any unsoundness other than injury. WHY DO YOU BREED HER? And than when the colt does not cut it either they blame the stud. Beyond me !!!!!
I agree. I had a really nice mare. I didn't realize she JD never been to rodeos and the first one I took her to was a perf with a strobe and carnival at the third and bucking chutes with the bulls being loaded at the gate. She never flinched. She was so solid mentally and athletically. But her front legs were a nightmare. I had to retire her early at 15. I loved her but never bred her. She had a for ever home at my house. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | SKM - 2015-12-23 8:29 PM Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in. I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos.
I have a mare and I truely believe this was the case for her. Fastest gal in the early futurity season years ago. But she broke down because she would work her guts out for me. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:34 AM SKM - 2015-12-23 8:29 PM Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in. I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos. I have a mare and I truely believe this was the case for her. Fastest gal in the early futurity season years ago. But she broke down because she would work her guts out for me.
As to the breeding statement above, maybe we should just put them all down and not have them in the gene pool. That's just not the way most Americans think...My dad is straight forward believes like this as they are stock and we are to be stewards towards improvement of the herd. But I, took my chances and bred her to Woodbridge. Have a beautiful filly with the exception of a dang parrot mouth. Should have listened to dear dad. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 8:41 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:34 AM SKM - 2015-12-23 8:29 PM Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in. I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos. I have a mare and I truely believe this was the case for her. Fastest gal in the early futurity season years ago. But she broke down because she would work her guts out for me.
How is she bred? I've been around several and all had 1 bloodline in common. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:41 AM
uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:34 AM SKM - 2015-12-23 8:29 PM Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in. I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos. I have a mare and I truely believe this was the case for her. Fastest gal in the early futurity season years ago. But she broke down because she would work her guts out for me.
If you get a knowledgable dentist/vet no start floating teeth earlier the better, you can correct a minor parrot mouth. There is a special way to float their teeth to pull it into alignment. |
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| uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:41 AM
uno-dos-tres! - 2015-12-26 9:34 AM SKM - 2015-12-23 8:29 PM Whenever you have a sire that throws like FG does, you will have soundness issues. It's the nature of the beast when you have a particular sire that throws hard running, hard turning, more try than is safe and a winning desire no matter how much pain they may be in. I've seen more than a few own FG get trip at a barrel, fall on their face and STILL place in the top 3 at rodeos. I have a mare and I truely believe this was the case for her. Fastest gal in the early futurity season years ago. But she broke down because she would work her guts out for me.
Does Woodbridge have a parrot mouth??
I know at one time this defect was going to be printed on
a horses papers by AQHA but apparently it got lost by the
hidden committee they keep locked up in a closet ... lol
I wouldn't try any fancy dental work .. the jaw bone is set
when they are born and this is what is out of whack ...
let baby teeth guide the mature teeth ...
How many have noticed that adult humans that had their
teeth in braces and teeth removed on the uppers ... are
now smiling with an under bite where the lower teeth and
jaw stick out in front of the uppers ... makes for a goofy
looking photo when several are in the picture ... lol
What would you do to this youngster??
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I Really Love Jeans
Posts: 3173
Location: North Dakota | I had a daughter of Frenchmans Guy and I could not keep her sound!! She may be ok for a few weeks then out for a month!!! This is the only experience I have with his offspring! She was temperamental and had to be babied or she pouted! I have found that quarter horses today are not as sound as they used to be!! A good horse should not need thousands of dollars in injections and supplements to perform!! The best horses I have now are good ole ranch horses with cow horse breeding! We may be breeding faster horses today but we are not breeding horses that last!! |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | No, not going to do anything other than every 6 mo. Work. Filly is on pasture and looks really good out there. She's next on the breaking list. I rode many on the track 30 years ago and trained one for barrels never had any issues while I was top side. The barrel horses tongue would stick out quite often. As long as the pastures stay good I figure she's alright.
Woodbridge, I don't believe he's parrot mouthed. The mare and he just had a mismatch in jaws. My mare has a small FG head.
Angelica, I so agree, the horses are not holding up like they did thirty years ago. I'm not sure if it's us expecting more sooner or the genes. I've held them and not broke 'em till they were three and still had issues. I would rather break them as twos and walk and trot them to good bone modeling. |
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| Most soundness issues are caused by out of shape horses and how they were raised or trained and currently fed.
Today if our pasture is not level we hire a dozer to flatten it out, horses stand in pens and stalls and trained in arena's .. for less than an hour per day. ... or less days. and we go rock hunting so horse won't step on it ..
It is like having a couch poatato for a son or daughter ... that go thru the drive thru or call the pizza deliver guy.... and yes .. most are fat and that is what we try to do with our horses ... always fattening them up ... lol
Having some rough terrain raising horses would be a gift from God!! To me the perfect place would be at least a mile square with a mountain of rocks in the middle of it where mares and babies etc would have to travel over the mountain to pasture and back over the mountain of rocks to get a drink of water. Soundness of bones and feet come from hard use when growing up ... and on the other hand ... training should include as many 4-6 hour pasture rides as possible to get the growing bones and feet as hard as nails and feed natural feeds like whole oats, corn and alfalfa and forget the supplements and other crap we buy to feed horses and not for ourselves ..
and I remind you again .. there is more truth to these words if you want a lifetime sound horse ...........
HE CAN'T RUN FAST ENOUGH TO HURT HIMSELF!!
lol
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-12-27 7:49 PM Most soundness issues are caused by out of shape horses and how they were raised or trained and currently fed. Today if our pasture is not level we hire a dozer to flatten it out, horses stand in pens and stalls and trained in arena's .. for less than an hour per day. ... or less days. and we go rock hunting so horse won't step on it .. It is like having a couch poatato for a son or daughter ... that go thru the drive thru or call the pizza deliver guy.... and yes .. most are fat and that is what we try to do with our horses ... always fattening them up ... lol Having some rough terrain raising horses would be a gift from God!! To me the perfect place would be at least a mile square with a mountain of rocks in the middle of it where mares and babies etc would have to travel over the mountain to pasture and back over the mountain of rocks to get a drink of water. Soundness of bones and feet come from hard use when growing up ... and on the other hand ... training should include as many 4-6 hour pasture rides as possible to get the growing bones and feet as hard as nails and feed natural feeds like whole oats, corn and alfalfa and forget the supplements and other crap we buy to feed horses and not for ourselves .. and I remind you again .. there is more truth to these words if you want a lifetime sound horse ........... HE CAN'T RUN FAST ENOUGH TO HURT HIMSELF!! lol
I love you thinking. The pasture my babies are in is two and a half miles long. I can assure you there's plenty of rock. I wish I would have taken my stud colt up to the ranch but I didn't want him near any of the other horses. He doesn't look near as good as the babies ranch raised. He's farm raised.
Mine don't get near the riding I used to give to colts. My paying job requires me every other day thus their riding is every other day-I hate that but it is what it is. I hope to have all my colts checking pasture after I've pen ridden them for twenty days. I just have to be careful as our hog and cat problem can present real risk. No couch potatoes here if I can help it.
So tell me BHUSA, why do we have so many breaking down? |
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 Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: where my horse takes me | I own a full sister to Guys Piece of the Pie. She is a 10yo palomino. Very sound, big fee and big bone. Recently had a lameness locator exam done on her at Dr. Honnas in TX and she was very sound according to him. She is a big mare and one of those "trip and fall on their face and still clock" type horses. She's for sale too!! :)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Love the response, very interesting to read..and yes my mare is crossed with race bred on her dam's side. She's extremely lazy to ride in general I really hope when we get with it she turns up the speed and I see "heart"  |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| angelica - 2015-12-27 6:15 PM
I had a daughter of Frenchmans Guy and I could not keep her sound!! She may be ok for a few weeks then out for a month!!! This is the only experience I have with his offspring! She was temperamental and had to be babied or she pouted! I have found that quarter horses today are not as sound as they used to be!! A good horse should not need thousands of dollars in injections and supplements to perform!! The best horses I have now are good ole ranch horses with cow horse breeding! We may be breeding faster horses today but we are not breeding horses that last!!
What was the dam on this horse?
just curious.
OP- The couple I have been around are awesome, no soundness issues. I'd buy one in a heartbeat. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | angelica - 2015-12-27 6:15 PM I had a daughter of Frenchmans Guy and I could not keep her sound!! She may be ok for a few weeks then out for a month!!! This is the only experience I have with his offspring! She was temperamental and had to be babied or she pouted! I have found that quarter horses today are not as sound as they used to be!! A good horse should not need thousands of dollars in injections and supplements to perform!! The best horses I have now are good ole ranch horses with cow horse breeding! We may be breeding faster horses today but we are not breeding horses that last!!
A good horse that is being hauled ALOT, and ran ALOT, will require some type of maintenance.......just sayin |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| WHOA!!!!! I just looked, 1810 people have looked at this thread but only 28 comments?! LOL interesting. Thanks for everyone's input I love this board for info from ones that have had experience :) |
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