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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| When you are loping in the pasture or arena bring it into a big circle. Make it 1/2 the arena if you need to. Whatever lead she is on just follow it into a natural, large circle. Build on that and gradually make the circle smaller. Cork screws are great once she gets further along. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I would get some large truck tires and put them in a big circle out in the pasture. I used to bring alot of horses from the track to the barrel pen and some just had a terrible time getting the circle down. The tires helped me out. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | We do not agree with the CA philosophy of letting them go where ever they want. It gets them in a very bad habit of doing exactly what yours is doing.....not wanting to be told where to go. Just guide them as much as possible, but don't do the just keep their feet moving wherever they choose. It hasn't worked at all for us. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Tdove - 2015-12-30 1:04 PM
We do not agree with the CA philosophy of letting them go where ever they want. It gets them in a very bad habit of doing exactly what yours is doing.....not wanting to be told where to go. Just guide them as much as possible, but don't do the just keep their feet moving wherever they choose. It hasn't worked at all for us.
It may not work with every horse but I've had success with lazy horses doing this, or working them in the area they want to go and then letting them walk when you're away from that area.
I can't even lope her in a large circle at this point and I'm trying to help guide her, which puzzles me because she trots beautiful circles.
She was a woods horse, just working cows so I don't know if anyone tried to teach her the basics, everything else she has picked up great!
Where do I put the tires? In circle?
What about round pen |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | So I'm taking it that she's not been loped very much at all, just a few times? Usually I have someone on the ground while I ride in the roundpen to help get them loping there at least a time or two. That helps get them freed up. Then I'll go out in the field or a big pen and just lope along the edge. I just want them moving out and forward. I don't think about circles until they're staying in a lope for a good long ways without quitting. It takes conditioning to do even a big circle. When I start circles, they're huge with their nose just slightly tipped to the inside. I get a few strides and quit and then do it again and just build on that. I ask for little short spurts and quit before they fall apart. If they have trouble, I find I need to do more conditioning, work on impulsion. a little more, and work on softening. Usually when you have trouble it's a sign that aprevious step is weak somewhere. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | RnRJack - 2015-12-30 1:13 PM Tdove - 2015-12-30 1:04 PM We do not agree with the CA philosophy of letting them go where ever they want. It gets them in a very bad habit of doing exactly what yours is doing.....not wanting to be told where to go. Just guide them as much as possible, but don't do the just keep their feet moving wherever they choose. It hasn't worked at all for us. It may not work with every horse but I've had success with lazy horses doing this, or working them in the area they want to go and then letting them walk when you're away from that area. I can't even lope her in a large circle at this point and I'm trying to help guide her, which puzzles me because she trots beautiful circles. She was a woods horse, just working cows so I don't know if anyone tried to teach her the basics, everything else she has picked up great! Where do I put the tires? In circle? What about round pen
I've used tires in the RP and out in the pasture. I like to use them for guidance. If you put them in the round pen you use them to keep them from cutting off their circle.
The last place my husband worked we had three sizes of round pens. I used the 100' cutting pen quite a bit on the OTT horses. Once they were feeling confident I got them out of the pen and into the pasture to work cattle, check fences, move the goats. Anything to put their mind in gear. Not just aimless circles in a pen. The real work helped them "find" their bodies. I could head back to the arena and low and behold the circles came much easier. |
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Location: So Cal | I read into the part where you said "we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements". Coming into a circle is a "lateral movement" and I want my horses to do it off of a leg cue. I usually like to get a pretty good concept of moving off my leg before trying to lope a circle (or trot one for that matter), so if it were me, that's where I'd be starting. At a walk, teaching them to get off my leg. But- I like mine to ride off a lot of leg so I emphasize that from the beginning. The only time I'd be sending one forward without caring about direction is probably in a roundpen if they were one who kept wanting to stop, or buck or something. I don't let my horses run around on the wrong lead because I've had to fix enough horses where other people taught them to pick up the wrong one and lope around unbalanced. Everyone has their own methods and like I said- I know I like mine working off leg more than some people do, but that was what really stood out to me about your post from the beginning. Sounds like the horse needs to learn to get off your leg so they actually know how to be guided into a circle. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I work on leg pressure a lot as well, at a walk, at a trot, my horses run off my legs, I don't pull or yank on them around a barrel, usually just sit, twist my hips, look and they come around with me, sometimes with colts I have to guide them.
I'm big on at another posted said, keeping them moving forward, I don't worry about leads until I'm ready to lope circles and she has naturally so far picked up the correct leads. I also don't ever ad rate when starting the pattern, I'm big on keeping forward motion.
I guess I'm just getting other suggestions for getting them to start loping circles and I appreciate all the advice.
Edited by RnRJack 2015-12-30 3:04 PM
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | turnnburnkota - 2015-12-30 2:13 PM
I read into the part where you said "we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements". Coming into a circle is a "lateral movement" and I want my horses to do it off of a leg cue. I usually like to get a pretty good concept of moving off my leg before trying to lope a circle (or trot one for that matter), so if it were me, that's where I'd be starting. At a walk, teaching them to get off my leg. But- I like mine to ride off a lot of leg so I emphasize that from the beginning. The only time I'd be sending one forward without caring about direction is probably in a roundpen if they were one who kept wanting to stop, or buck or something. I don't let my horses run around on the wrong lead because I've had to fix enough horses where other people taught them to pick up the wrong one and lope around unbalanced. Everyone has their own methods and like I said- I know I like mine working off leg more than some people do, but that was what really stood out to me about your post from the beginning. Sounds like the horse needs to learn to get off your leg so they actually know how to be guided into a circle.
When I say lateral movements I mean more like counter arcs, moving off my leg on the fence, side passing, but I understand what you mean. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I work all my colts in an open field. I don't like horses to rely on walls.
I start loping a straight line, then turn 90 degrees, lope another straight line then turn 90 degrees. I work a box before I work circles. This way I don't have to constantly pull on their face. I will break them down to a trot for the corners if I feel I don't have the control.
I also start big.
When they have the box down pat then I will start using a bumping technique on the sides and on the reins to get them to bend their body and start loping circles |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i like to lope more of a square, easier on hocks makes them go in a straight line. you want straught lines between barrels. i got a 4 year old could not lope a circle w t l like 75 foot turned a corner thenm lopes 75 foot like a half circle on both ends with 2 straight lines. it wrked well to teach her. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I use to work for die hard Clinton followers they watched all his tapes had his sticks etc. i can say there horses had excellent ground manners stallions were no problem to handle . The cruising excersize i was never crazy about imo i want to try my best to teach them without picking to pick up the correct lead, you have to realize Clinton will bust there a$$ a lot of people are just to nice that use these methods, i never agreed that everything had to be ridden in a jerrimiah watt smooth egg butt snaffle, he also overflexes one, these are my very unproffesional opinions! I would just guide that horse around in big circles and be patient a horse has to build strength to lope circles and sometimes horses that haven't been loped till later in life get an attitude. Chip away at it every day keep in mind ground conditions, saddle fit, how the horses feet are cared for and saddle fit . |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Thanks everyone for the advice!, I will def try some new things with her, I realize also she isn't in great shape so it will take time, I just wanted to know what others do, I believe you can learn something from everyone!
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| The easiest way to lope circles is to look where you want to go. If you ride along looking at the sky or at your watch, cell phone or the colt trying to break out of his run then the horse will go right where you look---all over the place. If you look where you want the horse to go, perfect circles. Actually the same is true running barrels. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | streakysox - 2015-12-30 9:51 PM
The easiest way to lope circles is to look where you want to go. If you ride along looking at the sky or at your watch, cell phone or the colt trying to break out of his run then the horse will go right where you look---all over the place. If you look where you want the horse to go, perfect circles. Actually the same is true running barrels.
You're correct, but I can look where I want to go with a very green horse like this and they still can't lope a circle quite yet |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| When you say that she won't lope a circle, my question is where is the breakdown in communication? Does the horse pick up the correct lead for a stride or two and break down into a trot, does the horse lope but then crossfire? Is one side worse then the other?
With the groundwork how easily does your horse lope? I know one exercise that helps is when asking the horse to lope on a lunge when the horse breaks down a gear move towards the horses hip and get them to cross their hind leg over the other and plant their front inside leg....kind of hard to explain, but it helps educate rhythm and gets them up under themselves. Then switch directions and repeat. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | RnRJack - 2015-12-30 1:25 PM I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle.
There can be several reasons.. one is strength or sore hocks.
Id keep her moving forward but id insist she stay between my legs and go where I want to go.. with that said make sure she can do what your asking. forward isnt just going where she wants.. forward is good but in the direction you ask. lope out and then ask for a huge circle and as she gets stronger you can spiral in and out.. fields are great for breezing and loping long areas.. but Id work on lateral work so she understands moving in and out.sounds like she isnt strong enough to. with time she needs to understand better your legs and body and seat so you can manuever her body anywhere.. |
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 Expert
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Location: Texas | RnRJack - 2015-12-30 12:25 PM
I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle.
Get in the round pen and lope circles in the round pen for a couple of weeks. When you start loping circles outside it is a little rough but it gets better each day. I teach mine to be square in between my hands at first and then do nose inside. It's easier to control their shoulders that way. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | mollibtexan - 2015-12-30 11:50 PM
RnRJack - 2015-12-30 12:25 PM
I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle.
Get in the round pen and lope circles in the round pen for a couple of weeks. When you start loping circles outside it is a little rough but it gets better each day. I teach mine to be square in between my hands at first and then do nose inside. It's easier to control their shoulders that way.
I ride similar, I've always learned more square work and I run a lot of my horses very square, depending on the horse, but that makes good sense |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Bibliafarm - 2015-12-30 11:07 PM
RnRJack - 2015-12-30 1:25 PM I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle.
There can be several reasons.. one is strength or sore hocks.
Id keep her moving forward but id insist she stay between my legs and go where I want to go.. with that said make sure she can do what your asking. forward isnt just going where she wants.. forward is good but in the direction you ask. lope out and then ask for a huge circle and as she gets stronger you can spiral in and out.. fields are great for breezing and loping long areas.. but Id work on lateral work so she understands moving in and out.sounds like she isnt strong enough to. with time she needs to understand better your legs and body and seat so you can manuever her body anywhere..
THIS ^^
I started my current filly with the CA basics just to try it out. I skipped the "free" loping in the arena. I loped her in the round pen instead for a couple weeks to build up her strength - I stayed out of her mouth and let her go where she wanted but just kept her moving. Real quickly, she built the muscle, the strength, and figured out her leads and such to keep going in one direction.
The whole point of the lope in the arena without direction or steering is to keep that horse going whatever speed you asked, no speeding up or slowing down. The whole you ask once, get what you want, and then leave them alone until you want something different is not new to CA but he bills it that way.
You have to build lateral strength to get a circle ... and as someone else pointed out, look where you want to go with confidence - the horse will get there eventually. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I really like Clinton andersons ground work techniques, I never used to a lot of ground work until a friend turned me on to his DVDs, plus her husband is a certified instructor so I've actually taken lessons just on ground work and I've seen a HUGE difference in my horses. What we teach them on the ground helps them under saddle as well and they have a new level of respect for you.
I also like his forward motion drills since I feel like that applies to barrel racing a lot. I never teach mine rate until they need it, some say it helps them use their hind end but i do different drills like fence for for tear end work.
I feel at this point after reading all the info that she is really out of shape and I'm going to have to do a little at a time until she gets there. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I do a lot of work on the lunge line, buck has some good exercises also. I understood you to say this horse was already started and not loped much when i rode for the people who were clntnandrsn followers most of there training horses were spoiled trail horses and they really resented being made to lope i use to take them out to there big 50 acre flat field and just ride guiding them in a lope and keep them moving in big circles always in the correct lead and try not to hang on them have a lot of patience and one day they will get it I'm always mindful also more of what my body language is allot of times its me and concentrate on your hands |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| I didn't read through all comments so hopefully not repeating. Completely get where your coming from on the ones used a lot but never taught to really lope a nice, collected circle. It can be tougher than a colt.
Is he fading or diving in? Might be two different fixes. I'd agree with whover posted to do straight lines but rather than a 90 turn we just do a box with curved corners. Shape them, nice turn and let go before they dive. If they are fading ask them to really turn it, pushing up under themselves, 90 degrees, straight, work up to 180, etc. Good luck! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | RnRJack - 2015-12-30 12:25 PM I got an older horse that is very green to ride for someone for a few months, she is veeg green but progressing fast. We have bend and flex, we can walk and trot perfect circles, we still need work with leg cues and lateral movements.
I am a big Clinton Anderson fan and use a lot of his techniques with my horses. I have been doing ground work with this mare before I ride her because I believe everything starts on the ground
anyway, long story short - anyone who follows those techniques knows that when you ask them to lope first you don't worry about leads or circles, you just keep their feet moving no matter where you go. So today we loped the whole 20 acre pasture and our Arena just to keep her moving. I have tried slightly to keep her in the arena and in a circle but she won't.
Im wondering if I should try loping her in the round pen or just keep loping. Until she can do a circle doing what I'm doing. She's a big girl and my round pen isn't huge. She's also lazy and gives me a workout!
just looking for different suggestions at getting her to lope a circle.
What I do on my young horses is this... I work up to loping
I ride them all in a c-gag (loomis) and I use split reins. I tie them to each side and lunge them - I dont tie so tight they cant move but so that they have to keep the head tucked inside
After they master that and tie straight back to my girth ring so they have to tuck their head when lunging.
Then I take my reins and go between the front legs and follow the girth up and tie to the saddle horn to get them to want to drop their head and I lunge them
This is where mine learn collection when loping as they have to lope and still drop the head to pressure - if she cant lope in the round pen like this she isnt going to be able to do it anywhere else.
I would be concerned abuot soundness issues if she cant lope and hold the lead. |
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Veteran
Posts: 224
Location: So Cal | Also some horses that haven't been worked in circles don't have the physical strength or coordination to do it. I've been working a BIG mare for someone and I spent a lot of time (short sessions but several) with her on the lunge line getting her to keep a lope in that circle. She was very unbalanced at first, would get the wrong lead, etc. I taught her from the ground that kissing means lope and I never let her go around on the wrong lead. Made it much easier to lope circles riding. |
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Trainers/colt breakers - teaching to lope a circle