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Regular
Posts: 57
| Hello,
I recently sent a horse to a trainer. Was guaranteed 30 rides for a flat amount. Had a signed contract saying there would be additional fees for hauling to races and entry fees. Trainer did a good job with the horse but I noticed I was charged a care fee on the days the horse wasn't rode. In the past trainers I have used have had you pay the fee for the 30 rides and that was the price even if it took them 60 days to do the 30 rides. I have never had to pay additional feed charges unless feed wasn't included in the price for the rides. This has always been stated up front, if you provide feed it is this price is you don't it is this. I do not want this to turn into a negative thread I am just curious industry wide what you have all experienced. Also if there are other fees you have noticed that you were suprised about that are good to watch for. Thank you! | |
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 Expert
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Location: Southeast Louisiana | I thought it was normal for the trainer to charge by the month. The only other cost breakdowns I have heard of was feed provided or you provide feed, and of course fees if they haul one. First time I've heard of the thirty rides, even if it takes sixty days concept. But, I would not expect them to feed and care for them for free on the horse's days off. That sounds fair to me that they charged for it. How is the contract worded? I would think part of the fee you pay is a flat charge for care and feed, regardless. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I am completely skeptical of the 30 rides marketing tactic. I don't trust those trainers. The only way to make it work would be to charge feed separately.
We charge by the month and my biggest pet peeve is people who are concerned most with "how much will my horse be ridden?" Our price is training, plus feed and board only. That is standard practice for almost 100% of reputable trainers.
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-05 8:33 AM
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Regular
Posts: 57
| Thank you. The idea behind it at least in our area is the fact that if you send a horse for 30 days and you only get 10 rides you aren't really getting what you paid for. I know some traininers don't offer a certain number of rides which can be frustrating. The contract didn't mention anything about extra fees charges and when I had asked about it originally it was mentioned either. I let the trainer know my concerns since I have never had this come up and they acted like it was common practice so I was curious to see how many others had ran into it since I have sent to several trainers through the years and never had it come up. | |
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Regular
Posts: 57
| Tdove - 2016-01-05 6:06 AM
I am completely skeptical of the 30 rides marketing tactic. I don't trust those trainers. The only way to make it work would be to charge feed separately.
We charge by the month and my biggest pet peeve is people who are concerned most with "how much will my horse be ridden?" Our price is feed and board only. That is standard practice for almost 100% of reputable trainers.
Thank you, I agree but also disagree because I don't think it is fair for someone to pay for a month and the horse barely gets touched. I trust that this trainer put the 30 rides on and did a good job with my horse just was suprised with an extra $100 added to my bill when she wasn't there that long. When I had asked about it the trainer made it seem like it was common but of all the years of sending out horses personally as well as through my family it has never came up so I was curious how common it was in other areas.
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | Tdove - 2016-01-05 7:06 AM I am completely skeptical of the 30 rides marketing tactic. I don't trust those trainers. The only way to make it work would be to charge feed separately. We charge by the month and my biggest pet peeve is people who are concerned most with "how much will my horse be ridden?" Our price is feed and board only. That is standard practice for almost 100% of reputable trainers.
I'm not sure what you mean asking why people are so concerned about their horse being ridden 30 times in a month. That is my biggest concern! I'm not paying for a month for my horse to be ridden 15 or 20 times. The trainers I use ride 30 days a month, and they keep the horse extra days (free) if they didn't meet the 30-ride per month minimum. I'm not paying them to board my horse, I'm paying them to train them.
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Regular
Posts: 57
| Runaway - 2016-01-05 7:43 AM
Tdove - 2016-01-05 7:06 AM I am completely skeptical of the 30 rides marketing tactic. I don't trust those trainers. The only way to make it work would be to charge feed separately. We charge by the month and my biggest pet peeve is people who are concerned most with "how much will my horse be ridden?" Our price is feed and board only. That is standard practice for almost 100% of reputable trainers.
I'm not sure what you mean asking why people are so concerned about their horse being ridden 30 times in a month. That is my biggest concern! I'm not paying for a month for my horse to be ridden 15 or 20 times. The trainers I use ride 30 days a month, and they keep the horse extra days (free) if they didn't meet the 30-ride per month minimum. I'm not paying them to board my horse, I'm paying them to train them.
I completely agree! This was why I was asking the question because I have never heard of this before and said trainer acted like it was common practice. | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | crashlyashley - 2016-01-04 11:29 PM Hello, I recently sent a horse to a trainer. Was guaranteed 30 rides for a flat amount. Had a signed contract saying there would be additional fees for hauling to races and entry fees. Trainer did a good job with the horse but I noticed I was charged a care fee on the days the horse wasn't rode. In the past trainers I have used have had you pay the fee for the 30 rides and that was the price even if it took them 60 days to do the 30 rides. I have never had to pay additional feed charges unless feed wasn't included in the price for the rides. This has always been stated up front, if you provide feed it is this price is you don't it is this. I do not want this to turn into a negative thread I am just curious industry wide what you have all experienced. Also if there are other fees you have noticed that you were suprised about that are good to watch for. Thank you!
That is how the good one works that I have used this summer. She puts 30 days on them and it took her nearly 2 1/2 months. I was only charged what she charges for 30 days, plus extra for farrier. I truly think she works more on where she thinks a horse should be in 30 rides vs just riding them 30 days, because she kept them longer when she thought they needed more fine tuning and what I got back were excellent horses. | |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I have a couple different experiences. One trainer was a flat $700 fee - included everything but shoeing. However I was not guaranteed how many times being ridden. I have a horse at a trainers now, I pay a daily rate depending on if the horse is ridden or not. My bill is broken down to number of rides = x amount$ and than just board for the days not ridden. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I expected to ruffle a few feathers there, but there are some things you should consider:
1. No trainer rides a horse 30 days in a month.
2. It's not good for a horse to be worked that much, especially on a long term basis
3. You should be more concerned with the results and quality of training a horse receives in a months time.
4. Your trainer can only work so much, no different than you...
Reputable trainers know this, and the people that all they care about is number of rides, really don't have the best interest of their horse or their trainer in mind. It's usually a good indicator of a bad customer. If you are so concerned about a potential trainer not riding your horse enough, then you need to find a different trainer or reevaluate your expectations.
We have had only one client that pulled her horse out of training because 5 rides a week (Once only 4) was robbery to her. However, she was thrilled at well her horse was doing. No one that has this position has ever been a professional horse trainer. If your horse does not get ridden enough, a reputable professional will let you know and reduce your charges accordingly. Industry standard is 5 days a week and sometimes that is not always achieved. I do not know of any top trainer that charges by number of rides. If there are, they are very, very, very few.
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-05 8:37 AM
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Tdove - 2016-01-05 8:28 AM 1. No trainer rides a horse 30 days in a month. 2. It's not good for a horse to be worked that much, especially on a long term basis 3. You should be more concerned with the results and quality of training a horse receives in a months time. Reputable trainers know this, and the people that all they care about is number of rides, really don't have the best interest of their horse or their trainer in mind. It's usually a good indicator of a bad customer. If you are so concerned about a potential trainer not riding your horse enough, then you need to find a different trainer or reevaluate your expectations. We have had only one client that pulled her horse out of training because 4-5 rides a week was robbery to her. However, she was thrilled at well her horse was doing. No one that has this position has ever been a professional horse trainer. If your horse does not get ridden enough, a reputable professional will let you know and reduce your charges accordingly. Industry standard is 5 days a week and sometimes that is not always achieved. I do not know of any top trainer that charges by number of rides. If there are, they are very, very, very few. ^^ this. I don't know any that rides very many horses that keeps up with the exact number of days they're riden. I wouldn't ever want a young horse riden every single day for a month. 4-5 days a week is perfectly fine. It's a set monthly rate plus farrier and vet costs.
Edited by MS2011 2016-01-05 8:39 AM
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Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida | Tdove - 2016-01-05 9:28 AM I expected to ruffle a few feathers there, but there are some things you should consider: 1. No trainer rides a horse 30 days in a month. 2. It's not good for a horse to be worked that much, especially on a long term basis 3. You should be more concerned with the results and quality of training a horse receives in a months time. 4. Your trainer can only work so much, no different than you... Reputable trainers know this, and the people that all they care about is number of rides, really don't have the best interest of their horse or their trainer in mind. It's usually a good indicator of a bad customer. If you are so concerned about a potential trainer not riding your horse enough, then you need to find a different trainer or reevaluate your expectations. We have had only one client that pulled her horse out of training because 5 rides a week (Once only 4) was robbery to her. However, she was thrilled at well her horse was doing. No one that has this position has ever been a professional horse trainer. If your horse does not get ridden enough, a reputable professional will let you know and reduce your charges accordingly. Industry standard is 5 days a week and sometimes that is not always achieved. I do not know of any top trainer that charges by number of rides. If there are, they are very, very, very few.
Maybe it's the state I'm in (Florida), but most full-time trainers I know ride 30 days a month. All of mine have come back sound, and much progress is made in repetition - 30 days in a row. I do know a few who take Sundays off. Barrel horse trainers (not colt-breakers, but trainers putting barrel patterns on) who compete in barrel racing may skip competition days.
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Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I like the fact I receive the two different rates. I know my horse is ridden by him only and when he is doing a clinic or competition for a few days, I'm not being charged for that. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | How much does a trainer charge that rides a horse 25-30 rides a month charge?
You do realize that a considerable amount of training fees make up feed and board? This means if a horse has to be kept longer, because of missed riding days, it costs the trainer more money to do so. Why would anyone expect not have to pay for those days?
How many hours do you work a week? A professional trainer, putting even 6 days a week on every horse, would be working 60-65 hours a week (every week).....and hard work to boot. Seems to me like if a person expects that, they are a unreasonable boss who cares very little about their trainer, especially making the statement, "I am paying them to train, not board my horse".
Now if a trainer charges you for a month of training and rides them 7 times.....then you have a big beef for sure, and you need to find a different, and honest trainer. That happens "a lot". Usually, by cheap and fly-by-night trainers.
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-05 9:29 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| so not to steal the thread or anything but I do have a question/ scenario. Say you pay your trainer in full at the beginning of the month (Ex $800 for 4 weeks of training) and 1 week in, the horse gets hurt while turned out at the trainers house and has to be on 2 weeks of stall rest for stitches. The injury did not cause any lameness that requires time off but vet wants the horse immobilized to let the laceration (skin deep) heal and so the stitches hold well. What do you expect to pay the trainer for those 2 weeks? Full training? ($200/wk) or discounted or what? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Good question, I think it would depend on the amount of work involved in the recovery. Here is how I would handle:
We charge $400/month for training and $400/month for board for a total of $800/mo. We do not charge up front, but after the training has occurred. I can see both sides of the "when to pay" issue. In a different circumstance of being on our own, I would probably do prepay.
If the horse was injured in your scenario and required just normal boarding for those two weeks, I would charge you $600 for the month, assuming the horse returned to training at week 3. However, if the horse's recovery required a lot of attention for bandages, doctoring, etc. Then I would charge additional to the normal prorated board, appropriate to the amount of work and care involved.
I do know some trainers that charge full training, regardless. Their reasoning is that you pay for a training stall. If your horse is using that stall, for whatever reason, then you are taking up space that another horse could be in training. So even if you took your horse home for a couple of weeks, you would be charged full training. I don't personally think that is correct, but I can still see their point of doing so, especially if they have a waiting list.
Edited by Tdove 2016-01-05 9:44 AM
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| It seems like each trainer has different billing methods, so it would seem wise to ask for specifics about billing. Communication is the key, and it should be the responsibility of both parties to make sure that there is no confusion about expenses and expectations. I don't train for a living, but will occasionally take in an outside horse. I do not get 30 rides on a horse in 30 days. I feel like they need a day or two off throughout that time to recover physically and mentally. And sometimes life and the weather don't cooperate. I want the owners to get what they are paying for, but I have to cover expenses. So I came up with a rate that works for me, which is to charge per ride, plus a daily feed charge. I suppose that if I trained for a living I would come up with a monthly rate to make the billing process much easier. | |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I've been the owner and the trainer.
I charged a monthly fee and it MOST OF THE TIME it was 5x's/week riding and feed, that was the standard. If it was a ground work day, that counted as a training day.
The trainer (well known and awesome, lol) that I sent my gelding too was also a monthly feed that included riding and feed. I wasn't guaranteed anything nor did I expect to be. Maybe he needed 4 days a week and one day was just biting up,, maybe he did get rode 5x's a week. Don't know don't care. I got my moneys worth, he looked great, worked good, and I spent a couple hours (they insisted) riding him before I brought him home.
I don't work 7 days a week, I do my job efficiently and effectively. I expect the same for anyone providing services to me as well.
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| If you pay for 30 days of riding and believe those rides are done consecutively, you may be naive. Not directing that at the OP just stating in general.
My husband rides 5 days per week, sometimes 6. So in reality a horse is with him 5-6 weeks to get 30 rides.
He charges feed separate. Stall/ feed/care is 5$ a day, which is about what someone pays to care for their horse at home (if kept in a stall).
The way he bills benifits both parties. If it storms/for whatever reason the horse is not ridden, the customer is not charged a ride fee for those days. You only pay for what has been completed.
Customers are given these details prior to bringing a horse, and recieve a detailed invoice at the end of each billing period.
Someone said "we arent paying a trainer to board a horse, just to ride it". Ok, so a trainer is supposed to eat the cost of feeding, grooming, trimming, cleaning stalls caring for your horse? I think not. Would you rather haul your horse daily to a trainer for sessions? You are leaving your horse for someone else to care for, and ride.
Edited by scwebster 2016-01-05 2:51 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| scwebster - 2016-01-05 2:34 PM
If you pay for 30 days of riding and believe those rides are done consecutively, you may be naive. Not directing that at the OP just stating in general.
My husband takes horses in on 30 ride incriments. He rides 5 days per week, sometimes 6. So in reality a horse is with him 5-6 weeks to get 30 rides.
He charges feed separate. Stall/ feed/care is 5$ a day, which is about what someone pays to care for their horse at home (if kept in a stall).
The way he bills benifits both parties. If it storms/for whatever reason the horse is not ridden, the customer is not charged a ride fee for those days. You only pay for what has been completed.
Customers are given these details prior to brining a horse, and recieve a detailed invoice at the end of each billing period.
Someone said "we arent paying a trainer to board a horse, just to ride it". Ok, so a trainer is supposed to eat the cost of feeding, grooming, trimming, cleaning stalls caring for your horse? I think not. Would you rather haul your horse daily to a trainer for sessions? You are leaving your horse for someone else to care for, and ride.
$5/ day is cheap for stall maintenance, feed & hay! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| Let's do some math! If I take a horse in and a person expects me to feed, clean, care for and train their horse every day of the month for $700 and let's say this month there are 30 days. I would spend no less than 2 hours a day on this horses behalf. Now the math, it is going to cost me roughly $220 for quality hay, water and electricity so subtract that from the $700 now I am down to $480. Break that down and I am working for approximately $8 an hour. This is quite a bit of extensive labor for $8 an hour working every day this month! I guess I don't understand why a really good horse trainer is expected to work for darn near less than minimum wage working 7 days a week. No way I would do it and pick up the extra cost to train a horse. I ride and exercise my horses give or take 4-6 times a week. In my opinion, they need turn out time no less than 1 day a week to roll, buck, kick and stroll around at their leisure for a much needed mental break! So I'm thinking you are getting you money's worth at 20-25 rides a month and then some. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | I pay $700 a month to my trainer. That includes ride time, board & feed.
I provide grain, pay for shoes, vet care etc. If he were to show my fillies I'd pay for that too. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i sent a colt off about 5 years ago to a trainer to but 30-60 days on him he told me after 30 days because he wasnot walk, jog nand lope like he thought he should he wanted to keep him for additioal 2 weeks. he also told me to sell him cause he would not make the horse that i wanted. i appreciated him doing that., he was a straight up guy. | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| dk66 - 2016-01-05 3:03 PM
Let's do some math! If I take a horse in and a person expects me to feed, clean, care for and train their horse every day of the month for $700 and let's say this month there are 30 days. I would spend no less than 2 hours a day on this horses behalf. Now the math, it is going to cost me roughly $220 for quality hay, water and electricity so subtract that from the $700 now I am down to $480. Break that down and I am working for approximately $8 an hour. This is quite a bit of extensive labor for $8 an hour working every day this month! I guess I don't understand why a really good horse trainer is expected to work for darn near less than minimum wage working 7 days a week. No way I would do it and pick up the extra cost to train a horse. I ride and exercise my horses give or take 4-6 times a week. In my opinion, they need turn out time no less than 1 day a week to roll, buck, kick and stroll around at their leisure for a much needed mental break! So I'm thinking you are getting you money's worth at 20-25 rides a month and then some.
I so agree with you.
I'm working on the road as usual, and have three horses with me. My finished horse that I haul, a physical rehab that I'm legging up, and a colt. I'm doing all the training, feeding, stall cleaning, feed hauling, grooming, worrying, observing, hauling, PLUS paying $200 a stall, and buying the shavings. I'm saving the $800+ a month per head it would take to send to a trainer I trust, or Aquatread, but by golly I'm pulling the sweat equity.
When I break it down, I'm NO WHERE near paying myself to do this things (in savings), what I make in a day as a professional in my field.
The truth is, trainers work for a much lesser rate, and the TRUE professionals at that. I figure trainers are like shoers, they all cost about the same, but a bad one can really cost you. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| I'd agree that very,very few ride them 30 days straight. This is just my personal opinion but I won't ride them 30 straight and wouldn't want mine. They need time to refresh, recharge like we do. The other challenge is keeping them motivated if you ride that often.
We charge a flat rate per board per day AND a flat rate per ride. It protects us and the client as there is no hurry to get the horse off the feed bill and scotch on the rides (not that we would). We also FEED them. They might go home fit but theres no reason for one to go home thin. Going home thin does NOT meant they got quality or quantity of rides.
Weather is also an issue without an indoor. Why should the trainer pay to feed your horse when they can't ride it due to mud? Thats our take anyway. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| Frenchie - 2016-01-05 8:21 PM
I'd agree that very,very few ride them 30 days straight. This is just my personal opinion but I won't ride them 30 straight and wouldn't want mine. They need time to refresh, recharge like we do. The other challenge is keeping them motivated if you ride that often.
We charge a flat rate per board per day AND a flat rate per ride. It protects us and the client as there is no hurry to get the horse off the feed bill and scotch on the rides (not that we would). We also FEED them. They might go home fit but theres no reason for one to go home thin. Going home thin does NOT meant they got quality or quantity of rides.
Weather is also an issue without an indoor. Why should the trainer pay to feed your horse when they can't ride it due to mud? Thats our take anyway.
What do you charge per ride? I like this break down of fees so that a person can truly see what they are getting for their money. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
| Last year it was $20 a ride and $5 a day to be on the place. We feed a quality ration both in forage and grain, bathe them, fly spray, etc. That stuff adds up. We don't train for a living so aren't really looking for customers to pay the bills and that means less horses so the ones we took got more time. We will reevaluate the fee structure this spring. It just makes sense to us that we charge board separately. Then there is no guilt, worry or issue if we feel they need a few days off. We believe in consistant riding but also believe in the power of letting it all "soak" and letting them recover. We don't take a lot of outside horses but this seems to work for us.
Lots of people say "$750 to ride one for thrity days, your making a bunch" and don't get me wrong, riding horses in enjoyable but outside horses take away time from riding mine, they take up room, they eat grass which is limited, fence wear and tear, feeding, watering, working arena, stuff gets broke, saddle pads take wear/tear, fly spray, it all adds up and it can be tough because clients aren't always understanding or don't have feasible expectations. All of that and you stil get people who bring you horses needing feet done and dental. Either you haul them to those appts or sometimes it doesnt' get done and the horse can't advance due to physical ailments. Then good, bad or ugly your name is attached to that horse. It might ride like a champ when it leaves or not so good but still much better than when it got there, once its on that trailer its out of your hands.
Again, not trying to whine this is just my pitch to young people wanting to train for a living or those who think you should ride one for $450 a month. Its a tough deal for sure and probably why there is a real shortage of quality, honest trainers in this area. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Honestly I love how quickly judge trainers payment methods when both ways are actually pretty standard. If your trainer gave you an itemized bill versus just asking for one lump sum then they are simply actually being better about paying attention to your horses ride time and time off. A lot of your lump sum people ride 4-5 days a week but if weather is yucky they may not ride for a week. The honest ones will probably keep your horse a few more days to make sure they still get the time. But if you get an itemized bill you actually know exactly what days your horse was messed with. The lump sum certainly seems easier but to me its also easier to ignore a horse under that billing method than one where you pay by the ride. I also know trainers who charge by the ride but then will tell you 'but that means this much a month' so its like you know a lump sum and can just send them that but also know if something happens they will keep them a bit longer just to make sure they got all the rides in. And I have used a number of trainers that just ride 4-5 days a week, especially if they are working cattle pretty hard and the horse needs more rest. And I do know some that honestly ride 6 days a week, more arena work, so yes around 25 rides in a month. That is not an impossible standard. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| Frenchie - 2016-01-05 9:38 PM Last year it was $20 a ride and $5 a day to be on the place. We feed a quality ration both in forage and grain, bathe them, fly spray, etc. That stuff adds up. We don't train for a living so aren't really looking for customers to pay the bills and that means less horses so the ones we took got more time. We will reevaluate the fee structure this spring. It just makes sense to us that we charge board separately. Then there is no guilt, worry or issue if we feel they need a few days off. We believe in consistant riding but also believe in the power of letting it all "soak" and letting them recover. We don't take a lot of outside horses but this seems to work for us.
Lots of people say "$750 to ride one for thrity days, your making a bunch" and don't get me wrong, riding horses in enjoyable but outside horses take away time from riding mine, they take up room, they eat grass which is limited, fence wear and tear, feeding, watering, working arena, stuff gets broke, saddle pads take wear/tear, fly spray, it all adds up and it can be tough because clients aren't always understanding or don't have feasible expectations. All of that and you stil get people who bring you horses needing feet done and dental. Either you haul them to those appts or sometimes it doesnt' get done and the horse can't advance due to physical ailments. Then good, bad or ugly your name is attached to that horse. It might ride like a champ when it leaves or not so good but still much better than when it got there, once its on that trailer its out of your hands.
Again, not trying to whine this is just my pitch to young people wanting to train for a living or those who think you should ride one for $450 a month. Its a tough deal for sure and probably why there is a real shortage of quality, honest trainers in this area.
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 I too, shall remain nameless!
Posts: 2248
Location: Wearing a winter coat...... | I have used the same trainer for 15 years. The price has been for 25 rides. Sometimes it takes 1.5 months for it if she is on the road and sometimes it doesn't but it is always the same number of rides. She is a top trainer and rider so I have always assumed most worked the same. Guess I was wrong. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| People call all the time and say "How much for 30 days". I think we should throw out that terminology. It would be better to ask "How much for 30 rides?" or "How much per ride". | |
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| After my experiences with "trainers" the past 5 years I am going to share what my granddad said years ago ...
The only honest trainer is one you can sit on your front porch and watch him as he goes about his daily routine ....
Arena horses >>>>>
Too many these days need money to go rodeo, shows, barrel races and if you are lucky you might get 4-5 slam dunk rides right before you pick up your skinny scared to death horses and if they are big timers ... a bunch of druggie drunk interns will play rodeo with your horses after the bars all close ... and I am talking $800-$1000 per month training bills ..
Race horses >>>
It seems like everyone is on drugs these days .. either doctor or street drugs doesn't matter .. our exercise riders needed on M-W-F .. $15 per 20 minute 2 1/2 mile gallop .. can't be found after they make enough for another high they go missing for a week or more ... we do the saddling, unsaddling, bathe, walker and all they do is ride ........... no ambition whatsoever ... do the math ... this is an easy $300 x 3 day job with a 20 horse barn cranking out $900 per week at $50-60 per hour ... needless to say ... all of us have practically threw up our hands and have sold most of our horses ...
If you take to a race trainer barn ... horses are put on the bottom of list of a 80 horse barn and might take 2 years to get to the track for their first race .... race trainers make a good living with day money while they BS anyone that will listen ... out of their 80+ horse barns you might see 15 horses by Corona Cartel, Tres Seis or Mr Jess Perry etc running on the track ... the rest are ignored and treated as boarding horses ... and their boarding rates continue to go up .. $30-$50 per day ... with no training guarantee .... lol ...
It is HE77 to be too old and not to be able to ride and train your own horses anymore!!...
My hat is off to the honest ones that posted on this thread ... Tx/Ok is in dire need of good colt starters and solid basic trainers ... that take pride in what they do!!
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-05 8:12 AM
crashlyashley - 2016-01-04 11:29 PM Hello, I recently sent a horse to a trainer. Was guaranteed 30 rides for a flat amount. Had a signed contract saying there would be additional fees for hauling to races and entry fees. Trainer did a good job with the horse but I noticed I was charged a care fee on the days the horse wasn't rode. In the past trainers I have used have had you pay the fee for the 30 rides and that was the price even if it took them 60 days to do the 30 rides. I have never had to pay additional feed charges unless feed wasn't included in the price for the rides. This has always been stated up front, if you provide feed it is this price is you don't it is this. I do not want this to turn into a negative thread I am just curious industry wide what you have all experienced. Also if there are other fees you have noticed that you were suprised about that are good to watch for. Thank you!
That is how the good one works that I have used this summer. She puts 30 days on them and it took her nearly 2 1/2 months. I was only charged what she charges for 30 days, plus extra for farrier. I truly think she works more on where she thinks a horse should be in 30 rides vs just riding them 30 days, because she kept them longer when she thought they needed more fine tuning and what I got back were excellent horses.
We sent our 8 year old to a trainer not too long after we got him because he was match raced, and Lord knows we needed a professional to help him after that traumatizing career. We paid $550, took his feed and supplements, and paid for farrier. He was with her about 45 days, and she put 30 rides on him. Lynn came back a different horse, and we were thrilled. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| scwebster - 2016-01-06 1:32 PM
People call all the time and say "How much for 30 days". I think we should throw out that terminology. It would be better to ask "How much for 30 rides?" or "How much per ride".
Excellent terminology. It goes along with what SC Webster has commented on and gives value to a good trainers time. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| dk66 - 2016-01-07 10:10 AM
scwebster - 2016-01-06 1:32 PM
People call all the time and say "How much for 30 days". I think we should throw out that terminology. It would be better to ask "How much for 30 rides?" or "How much per ride".
Excellent terminology. It goes along with what SC Webster has commented on and gives value to a good trainers time.
Sorry, it was FRENCHIE I was referring to. But it all makes sense. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| Frenchie - 2016-01-05 9:38 PM
Last year it was $20 a ride and $5 a day to be on the place. We feed a quality ration both in forage and grain, bathe them, fly spray, etc. That stuff adds up. We don't train for a living so aren't really looking for customers to pay the bills and that means less horses so the ones we took got more time. We will reevaluate the fee structure this spring. It just makes sense to us that we charge board separately. Then there is no guilt, worry or issue if we feel they need a few days off. We believe in consistant riding but also believe in the power of letting it all "soak" and letting them recover. We don't take a lot of outside horses but this seems to work for us.
Lots of people say "$750 to ride one for thrity days, your making a bunch" and don't get me wrong, riding horses in enjoyable but outside horses take away time from riding mine, they take up room, they eat grass which is limited, fence wear and tear, feeding, watering, working arena, stuff gets broke, saddle pads take wear/tear, fly spray, it all adds up and it can be tough because clients aren't always understanding or don't have feasible expectations. All of that and you stil get people who bring you horses needing feet done and dental. Either you haul them to those appts or sometimes it doesnt' get done and the horse can't advance due to physical ailments. Then good, bad or ugly your name is attached to that horse. It might ride like a champ when it leaves or not so good but still much better than when it got there, once its on that trailer its out of your hands.
Again, not trying to whine this is just my pitch to young people wanting to train for a living or those who think you should ride one for $450 a month. Its a tough deal for sure and probably why there is a real shortage of quality, honest trainers in this area.
Thank you for the information. In my personal opinion, for the value of money your fees are inexpensive. I still don't see how you can afford to board and feed for +/- $150 a month. I guess where I live the cost of living in the "country" is higher lol. If I have to ever send a horse out for a little extra work or training I'll have to hunt you down. | |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Up this way..its 1000 a month with extra for trims or shoes or vet or wormer and if they enter anything with them owner pays the entry fees.....and most wont take them for less than 90 days.....m | |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-01-06 10:02 PM After my experiences with "trainers" the past 5 years I am going to share what my granddad said years ago ... The only honest trainer is one you can sit on your front porch and watch him as he goes about his daily routine .... Arena horses >>>>> Too many these days need money to go rodeo, shows, barrel races and if you are lucky you might get 4-5 slam dunk rides right before you pick up your skinny scared to death horses and if they are big timers ... a bunch of druggie drunk interns will play rodeo with your horses after the bars all close ... and I am talking $800-$1000 per month training bills .. Race horses >>> It seems like everyone is on drugs these days .. either doctor or street drugs doesn't matter .. our exercise riders needed on M-W-F .. $15 per 20 minute 2 1/2 mile gallop .. can't be found after they make enough for another high they go missing for a week or more ... we do the saddling, unsaddling, bathe, walker and all they do is ride ........... no ambition whatsoever ... do the math ... this is an easy $300 x 3 day job with a 20 horse barn cranking out $900 per week at $50-60 per hour ... needless to say ... all of us have practically threw up our hands and have sold most of our horses ... If you take to a race trainer barn ... horses are put on the bottom of list of a 80 horse barn and might take 2 years to get to the track for their first race .... race trainers make a good living with day money while they BS anyone that will listen ... out of their 80+ horse barns you might see 15 horses by Corona Cartel, Tres Seis or Mr Jess Perry etc running on the track ... the rest are ignored and treated as boarding horses ... and their boarding rates continue to go up .. $30-$50 per day ... with no training guarantee .... lol ... It is HE77 to be too old and not to be able to ride and train your own horses anymore!!... My hat is off to the honest ones that posted on this thread ... Tx/Ok is in dire need of good colt starters and solid basic trainers ... that take pride in what they do!!
I guess we are the lucky ones then, our gallop boys, clean stalls, bathe, put on walker, wrap...you name it they do it and they are their 7 days a week. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | With the trainers I currently use, I know they are not going to get ridden every day. But the trainers I use get results. And they are still honest with me on how many days they got rode, but that really doesn't concern me. They don't need to be ridden every day to get results. I pay for the days they are there (feed/board); not the amount of times they are ridden. I've never had a "surprise" in fees. When I take a horse for particular training, I know what I want accomplished with the horse and trainer and I have a guideline of about how long it will take to get the horse there.
Yes, there are "lazy" trainers out there who won't get much accomplished and rake some people over the coals. But that's why I don't use those people. ;-)
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
| I don't do the flat rate, but I am one of the only ones that I know that doesn't. I allow the owner to provide the feed. If they don't then I buy the feed, and send them a receipt with the invoice. I will do the same for any vet, farrier or chiro...and I make sure to clear it with the owner BEFORE I have them seen so that the owner wont be surprised by an invoice and extra charges. I invoice weekly, or bi weekly or however it is easiest for the owner...only according to the rides that I actually put on the horse. Included in the invoice is what I did with the horse, what I was working on, how the horse was doing... I send videos every two weeks. I charge $5 a day to board. So if I don't get to ride because of the weather you don't get charged anything for that day other than board. I charge 20$ saddle for babies and $15 to keep one legged up or tuned on. And I only take in 2 outside horses at a time. I have three of my own...If I haul one to a race I invoce exhibitions and entry-fees and for that horses "hole" in the trailer...again...all known to the owner BEFORE I put them in the trailer.
It doesn't work for everyone...but it works for me and I think that it's reasonably fair.
Edited by MOTIVATED 2016-01-07 1:27 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
| MOTIVATED - 2016-01-07 1:26 PM
I don't do the flat rate, but I am one of the only ones that I know that doesn't. I allow the owner to provide the feed. If they don't then I buy the feed, and send them a receipt with the invoice. I will do the same for any vet, farrier or chiro...and I make sure to clear it with the owner BEFORE I have them seen so that the owner wont be surprised by an invoice and extra charges. I invoice weekly, or bi weekly or however it is easiest for the owner...only according to the rides that I actually put on the horse. Included in the invoice is what I did with the horse, what I was working on, how the horse was doing... I send videos every two weeks. I charge $5 a day to board. So if I don't get to ride because of the weather you don't get charged anything for that day other than board. I charge 20$ saddle for babies and $15 to keep one legged up or tuned on. And I only take in 2 outside horses at a time. I have three of my own...If I haul one to a race I invoce exhibitions and entry-fees and for that horses "hole" in the trailer...again...all known to the owner BEFORE I put them in the trailer.
It doesn't work for everyone...but it works for me and I think that it's reasonably fair.
So do you charge for hay plus $5 a day for board? | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 368
Location: run2win land | I pay $750 for 30 days, not 30 rides. This includes all feed & care. I expect 5 rides per week. I pay extra for shoes, vet or dental. If the horse is to be hauled, then fuel sharing and entry fees are extra. If horse wins a check then that is subtracted from what I owe. If I did not have confidence that the trainer was riding my horse, then I wouldn't take them there in the first place.
Edited by swd 2016-01-07 5:06 PM
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Training fees