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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
  
Location: Woodstown, NJ | My beautiful Paint in my avatar came out of the field on New Year's, Friday morning, with his eye tearing (clear) and swollen shut. On Sunday morning the covering vet came. The eye didn't take the dye, indicating it wasn't an injury. I was shocked she thought it could be more than a scrape or a piece of hay stuck in it. He's 18. Never had eye problems before. She did some stuff and left me with an antibiotic/steroid ointment, Atropine ointment, and Banamine. No improvement. My regular vet came out Thursday morning and spent three hours examining him, including cytology (sp?)--taking cells to send up to the "experts," and consulting with New Bolton. She ruled out injury, moonblindness, and something systemic. This was the horse who was lethargic a few months ago when I switched to the low sugar grain. She said no, it has nothing to do with that. She suspects an abscess, though it doesn't present in a classic way, or fungus. Tomorrow morning we should find out when we get the results from the culture if it's a fungus. She said stop using the antiobiotic/steroid I had been given, and left me with two tubes of fungal cream and instructed to continue with the Atropine and Bute. I have been dedicated even though he's been fighting me because it hurts so much and getting it into his eye at least four times a day, sometimes more. But there hasn't been any improvement. His eye is 40% grey and cloudy and I can see he doesn't feel good at all. He's not drinking his water well. The vet mentioned the option of removing the eye, worst case scenario, and I know they can live fine without it, but removing an eye is very drastic. However, I don't have the money to go on a wild goose chase (a friend had the same thing happen and wound up spending four grand and the horse still lost his eye) PLUS I don't want this horse to suffer unnecessarily! I've done this before with animals--treat, and treat, and treat, and the whole time they're suffering and it's just horrible! Any info or stories you can tell me would be appreciated and I'd like your opinion on how far to go. Thank you! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: nj | An option would be to Reach out to Dr Vagantus at 609-259-8300 at northstar at robbinsville - she is a specialist. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thanks Threeponies. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
 
Location: Kansas | For what it's worth, I was fighting one very ugly eye problem in an old retired thoroughbred we have. Vets did the dye thing and prescribed Banamine and eye ointments. By chance such problems were discussed on a thread here on BHW. BarrelHorseUSA, a board member, suggested getting away from the Banamine and using Penicillin. Pretty emphatic about Banamine being a waste of time as I remember. I started giving daily shots of Penicillin to this ole guy and the problem disappeared within days. I had been fighting this for weeks and the eye literally went back to normal.
Just for what it's worth. It worked for me and I am grateful to BarrelHorseUSA for the advice. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Frodo, I'm going to suggest that to the vet. Someone else mentioned that to me! Thank you. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | And remember to come back and update us. . .  |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | The more articles I read that have your horses issues in...like al.ost falling in the rear end...like being lathargic...and now this...im thinking soaking some money into a specialist might be needed. |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | It's strictly the eye, I have seen some remarkable eye recoveries when I worked for the equine vet!! I mean I thought there was no way to save it and they healed. Keep us updated. Any drainage out of his nose! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| When the mare in my profile picture was diagnosed with leptospirosis this past summer, we spent a lot of money to save her eyes from the blindness it causes. She would get steroid injections in her eyes and that would help for a few weeks, plus her 3x a day atropine ointment, and she basically lived on banamine for a while. We were looking into surgery to have a steroid disk put into her eye when she got injured at a race and we decided to retire and breed her. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Oh please give it more time to try to heal  |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | The first thing you need is a definite cause - bacterial, viral or fungal so that the proper medication can be used. A lavage tube inserted directly under the eyelid will assure that all medication is getting directly to the eye. I personally would want a equine opthamologist and probably in clinic care. |
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Member
Posts: 15
| This sounds a lot like my guy. Like you it was the pain he was in that hurt me so much when putting in the ointment. I saw a second vet when mine was away and she recommended inserting a lavage. She put a tube in through his eyelid up high in the eye socket, tube went up through his forelock and tied half way down mane. 4-6 times/day I had to syringe meds into the tube in his mane and then some air to get it into his eye where that end of the tube was like a little shower head that washed the meds over his eye. Overnight I could see he was in less pain than when I was squishing the ointment into his eye. BUT it did take a month Dec 9-Jan 8 before he was done. But so worth it to see 2 beautiful brown eyes again. He had to stay in a stall with a fly mask and a neck sheet so he couldn't rub the lavage but he didn't seem to mind cause he was in so much pain at first. He did figure out that going to his mane meant his eye would get bothered but we compromised by me rubbing gently under his eye while the meds washed over. Don't give up even when he was done I wasn't 100% sure cause the Atropine made his eye too dilated and thus looked odd but that cleared up. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | SC Wrangler - 2016-01-11 9:10 AM The first thing you need is a definite cause - bacterial, viral or fungal so that the proper medication can be used. A lavage tube inserted directly under the eyelid will assure that all medication is getting directly to the eye. I personally would want a equine opthamologist and probably in clinic care.
Agree - this was the method the vet used for my daughter's horse. She had to go out all hours of the day and night to administer the meds for 6 weeks. He has a place on the eye - but his vison and eye were saved. Also, if you aren't already doing this you may want to put a fly mask on the horse. WIshing you good results with the eye. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| I treated my mares eye from the beginning of January until the middle of May. We were aggressive and saved her eye. I cant even remember all the ointments, drops and meds we put in her eye. Started out treating her 5 times a day. Plus banamine twice a day. She had 2 abscesses on the eyeball. It was painful but she let us treat her. The last meds we were using had DMSO mixed in it. That was the only time she gave me a problem but after 5 months she was as fed up as we were with doctoring.
Hope you can find out whats wrong with your pony. Eye injuries are frustrating! |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Jake, his backend problem is a mechanical thing that has to do with his stifles that's been going on for 17 years. But that lethargy problem a few months ago might be related.
I just want to let you guys know that my vets are highly regarded around here and I've had three of them on the team working on this, consulting with each other, calling me all hours of the day and night, and consulting with specialists and opthamologists at New Bolton and Mid-Atlantic. So I do have confidence I have a great team.
We got the results back from the cytology. It shows no fungus. They are thinking bacterial. Frodo, I asked about the penicillan but he is not really a candidate because he's so big and would need two large shots twice a day. They are considering Doxy because it also has anti-inflammatory effects as well as being an antibiotic. The vet is going to draw blood for a few things today and top of her list is Leptospirosis. I looked that up. I think that's what he has! I read that two symptoms are moonblindness and lethargy. Some of you guys might remember that I switched my horses' grain a few months ago to Carb Gard because I was jumping on the no-sugar bandwagon, and Lowdown got lethargic. He was so lethargic, he fell down. I switched them back to their regular grain, and he improved. He was not lethargic, but I have to say he wasn't as peppy as he used to be. But I chalked that up to he's in with a new mare we have and she doesn't stop running and he's always trying to keep up with her and he's 18, I thought, he's pooped. She's wearing him out. But now I am thinking it wasn't that. Also, the other eye, which has been normal, has now developed a tear. Just a tear or two. But this is not normal for him. So it might be moonblindness and going to the other eye now. Then I read Lepto is found in areas with standing water or stagnant ponds. That's what I have! We get two flooded areas in our fields that look like a stagnant pond and they usually drain in a timely manner since we did some bulldozer work, but this past summer, it kept raining and raining and that water was standing there for so long, I had a mosquito infestation. Lepto is not from mosquitoes but it's from cattle and deer urine and when you have this kind of water and it washes into it and the horse goes in it or drinks from it, that's how he gets it. So I think this test is going to come out positive. I don't know what the prognosis will be. I wish I would have caught this sooner. I hope too much damage is not done. I'll find out more when the vet comes later and I will let you guys know. Thank you so much for all your support and tips and everything! |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
Location: Kansas | Again, not trying to talk you into anything, but our TB is 16.1 and built like a QH. We gave him 20 cc's once a day for about six days in the hip as I recall. Kept up the eye ointment for as long as the tube lasted but that was mostly because it was there and I wanted to use it up.
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Member
Posts: 48
| If the vets are thinking its bacterial in nature I would stay away from only using doxy, it has so much resistance that it is a very weak antibiotic. I am an optometrist and I would never use doxy for a corneal infection or ulcer. They need to be using a stronger antibiotic such as Vigamox or fortified Tobramycin and dosing at least every hour. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | We went through a Stromal Abscess last year. It was months and she is fine, but it was expensive.
We did the levage system, and I was treating evey 2 hours for a long time. ended up treating for about 3 months with great results.
We did an antifungal and an antibiotic because as I understand one can lead to the other?
The mare also did not take the stain...it was deep in the eye and we were at the vet on Monday after it apearing on Sunday.
I also had friends with an 20 year old mare that just treated with the tubes and it cleared up with half the treatment I went through.
As I understand it is VERY PAINFUL, the reason they are grumpy, don't eat and are kind of miserible.
I did the banamine and atropine far longer than I would have ever wanted to. I also treated with Omeprazol during the banamine time.
Good Luck, in my opinion, I would give it a few months before I went to removing the eye, but that's me.
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Oh boy, these vets are good. The vet was here last night till about ten. On the phone and sending pictures to the eye specialist at New Bolton who was in her jammies, I'm sure, at home. I may not be getting all this right but this is what we've come to so far: Even though the cytology didn't show fungus, they believe it might in fact, be a fungus after all, deep inside the eyeball. They also believe there's an abscess, even though it's not presenting in the usual way. We're going to continue to treat with the Chloramphenicol ointment and the Itraconazole/DMSO ointment but I'm going to increase it to at least six times a day. We are going to replace the Itraconazole/DMSO when it's empty with something stronger, I believe she said. We're continuing with the Atropine twice a day. We are increasing the Bute to 1 1/2 grams twice a day. We started the good eye on an antibiotic, Neomycin and Polymyxin B Sulfates/Bacitracin Zinc ointment two to three times a day because of the slight tearing that started. Looking into that eye, she saw something that was questionable but it was nothing so obvious that she would have been concerned about it if this wasn't going on. She drew blood for Leptosporosis. That should take a week to get back. She will let me know today about what kind of oral antibiotic we're going to put him on.
Frodo, I will mention it again. I know Penicillan knocks the crap out of stuff and if it's something systemic like Lepto, that would make sense that it could work.
It is incredibly hard doing so many treatments but I'm determined to give it my all. He's such a good boy. He's letting me do it now without too much of a fight. I just coo to him like a baby and rub his face with a nice warm wet washcloth and he lowers his head and lets me put it in. I am scared hearing how long some of you treated. I am having a hard time working. I have to work so I can pay for this all.... |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| We had to send one to State for treatment of a fungal infection. I noticed a cloudy spot, had the vet out and he used the dye strip to look for cut/abrasion. None showed so he put him one an antibiotic with steroids. A day or two later when I went to put in ointment the spot had turned in to a pimple. Vet redyed eye and still no indication of injury so he sent me right to State. They ended up finding a fungal infection (the surface cells had grown over preventing dye from showing injury). This particular fungus could liquefy a cornea in hours and the steroids actually feed it!
We got lucky and after a couple of days at State for hourly treatment he got sent home for me to treat every 4 hours. He ended up with full sight.
OP, which eye? I have an eye protector for the left eye which I had gotten for another horse. It looks like a blinder but the cover eye is a full cup with air holes in it. It allows air and cuts out most of the light. It cost over $100 but if you could use it and then pay it forward or send it back I could send it to you. PM me or email me at thexpres@cass.net which may be faster as I don't get on here regularly anymore. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | SmokinBandits - 2016-01-13 3:00 PM
Oh boy, these vets are good. The vet was here last night till about ten. On the phone and sending pictures to the eye specialist at New Bolton who was in her jammies, I'm sure, at home. I may not be getting all this right but this is what we've come to so far: Even though the cytology didn't show fungus, they believe it might in fact, be a fungus after all, deep inside the eyeball. They also believe there's an abscess, even though it's not presenting in the usual way. We're going to continue to treat with the Chloramphenicol ointment and the Itraconazole/DMSO ointment but I'm going to increase it to at least six times a day. We are going to replace the Itraconazole/DMSO when it's empty with something stronger, I believe she said. We're continuing with the Atropine twice a day. We are increasing the Bute to 1 1/2 grams twice a day. We started the good eye on an antibiotic, Neomycin and Polymyxin B Sulfates/Bacitracin Zinc ointment two to three times a day because of the slight tearing that started. Looking into that eye, she saw something that was questionable but it was nothing so obvious that she would have been concerned about it if this wasn't going on. She drew blood for Leptosporosis. That should take a week to get back. She will let me know today about what kind of oral antibiotic we're going to put him on.
Frodo, I will mention it again. I know Penicillan knocks the crap out of stuff and if it's something systemic like Lepto, that would make sense that it could work.
It is incredibly hard doing so many treatments but I'm determined to give it my all. He's such a good boy. He's letting me do it now without too much of a fight. I just coo to him like a baby and rub his face with a nice warm wet washcloth and he lowers his head and lets me put it in. I am scared hearing how long some of you treated. I am having a hard time working. I have to work so I can pay for this all....
SOunds like you have a plan now, good luck. There's a new vaccine for the lepto that just came out I believe. . . . |
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | Sending prayers your way. We treated one with an eye injury for a year. It takes time and it's very stressful, but the eye is remarkably resilient.
Not horse related, but a friend's son had his eye impaled by a mesquite thorn while hunting Monday. The thorn went completely through the eye and through the lense. He had surgery, they removed the lense and after the damage heals, they will put a new lense in much like cataract surgery. He's expected to have full sight in his eye.
Stay the course. Sounds like you have a plan and doctors that are on top of things. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I will tell you right now, leptospirosis is a BAD deal and I am really, really hoping for you that it isn't lepto. It can also be spread through infected, untreated horses. We were the 3rd confirmed case to have gotten it from a single boarding barn (that still is not disclosing that their horses have it, and refuse to test their horses for it, but that is a totally different speech that will just get me seeing red.)
The mare in my profile picture had to go through a 7 day treatment of a hard core IV medicine at the vet's, and the last day it blew out her vein and the medication just destroyed her neck tissue. She had to have the scar tissue removed 5 times, her neck was so swollen she could hardly move her head, she had to be fed elevated because she couldn't put her head down. We had to soak the spot in Epsom salts three times a day, as well as treat her eyes for the uveitis. We used DMSO/Silverdene mix around the open wound to try and lower the swelling, as well as kept it pressure wrapped most of the time. It was a very miserable 3 months for all of us until that healed. Not to mention, this was same time we found out she was having navicular changes and was missing most of the sole on her front feet, so she had to get special shoes so she could walk soundly, plus more medications to increase circulation.
Now here we are six months later, and she has formed a large cataract on her eye, so she's lost quite a bit of vision in her right eye - vision is equivalent to looking out a dirty window. She's only 11 years old. This poor mare got all the bad luck hitting at once, but luckily, she tested negative for the strain of lepto that primarily causes abortions, because she's a broodmare now. No, she shouldn't pass it onto her foal since she has been treated and is no longer contagious. This was a major argument, and still is anytime we take her anywhere. The treated horses are not the ones to worry about, it's the undiagnosed ones that are the threats. We carry a signed letter by our vet explaining how she is not contagious, poses no threat to anyone or anything, and even then people still try to fight me.
I highly suggest the new vaccine for lepto coming out, this is one of those diseases that shouldn't be played with. |
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| GOD BLESS YOU AND HOPING HORSE WILL RECOVER FULLY ...
I know it is tuff to be the guinea pig while several vets play the guessing game!!
I read everything twice ... and my 3rd eye thought how silly it would be if it was a blocked tear duct causing all this vetting ...
Find you a 12cc syringe and remove the needle ... now load it with eye saline solution or the greasy meds you are using.
Look up in horses nostrils and you will find a little hole about 2 inches up on each side of his nose bone which is his tear duct drainage tube ... the 12cc syringe nozzle will fit the holes ... press firmly and push the meds up thru it into the corner of his eye ... if the tear duct is blocked you will have difficulty squirting the meds or saline all the way to the eye or the large duct at the inside corner of his eye may be blocked ... it is larger than you expect ... so squirt until you see meds or saline running out of his eye ...
A horse has 3 eyelids and all three are dependent on tears as lubrication and to flush out debris. If these eyelids become dry or inflamed it will not show up with the dye ... that is eye injuries only ...
Also .. if something as simple as an eyelash is hidden between his outer and second eyelid or behind the 3rd eyelid.. ... if you watch a horse blink his eye especially while bathing .. you will see this large pink eyelid blink before he closes or opens his outer eyelid ... the 3rd eye lid is in the corner of his eye with the tear duct ... tuff to see it ..
You are not going to harm anything by clearing his tear ducts with saline on each side while following your vets orders ... matter of fact it may be the cure all ... and could be done once per day without much trouble ...
To everyone that has horse eye problems ... (I have never figured out why vets do not tell you this) ... use the tear duct method to treat their eyes with meds ... there is no fight, no future head shyness or lack of medicating the eye by doing this ... and the problem may be a piece of hay, a grass seed or something he snuffed up into his tear duct ... might get lucky and solve a problem that text book vets never would of thought to try .... ...
Ask your vet to turn his outer eyelid wrong side out and look hard at his 2nd and third eyelids for debris or any unusual red spot that might be a sticker or just plain old inflammation ..... and write down the meds suggested by our eye doctor on this post and talk to vet about using them ...
It is way past time for messing around .. someone has to get aggressive and give some body antibiotics to assist his natural defenses to take command of the problem at his eye .... even to the point of simply placing warm towels on his eye to increase blood flow to that area ...
Again ... I don't know why they are using Banamine ... it relaxes the guts and digestive system if a horse has symptoms of colic for a constipated turd to pass thru and not a general pain killer ????!!!!
If you want something to really work on all three things at one time .. pain, inflammation and swelling ... give him some aspirin ... you can buy it powdered at any drugstore to put with water in a syringe and give it by mouth ... 3-4 times per day ... no tummy problems ... just figure an adult dose is for a 200 lb human ... and give 5x that amount if he weighs 1000 lbs ... each time ...
Whoops I mentioned water ... now is the time to really pay attention to how much he is drinking .. if normal no problem .. if not very much ... start soaking some hay and adding water to his feed for him to get a little more liquid before vets say he is dehydrated and start using the $100 IV bags ...
Another little item that is more frequent in foals ... If they rub an eye or eyelid or a growth problem .. the outside lid can curl back into the 2nd lid when blinking and create havoc with an eye .... ever rub your eye and do this and how you struggled to rub the curl back to normal but had to fish an eyelid hair out of your eye too ... so just pay attention as this is rather rare ..
I am going to repeat this ...
To everyone that has horse eye problems ... (I have never figured out why vets do not tell you this) ... use the tear duct method to treat their eyes with meds ... there is no fight, no future head shyness or lack of medicating the eye by doing this ...
Giving shots ... practice giving a shot by spiking an ink pen onto a piece of paper with the cheek of your hand laying on the desk ... now spike the pen into the piece of paper and firmly hold it there in case the paper wants to move away from the pen ... lol .. and tell your feet to move along to keep the pen firmly pressed against the paper ..
Now ... take the needle out of an empty syringe and go to a horse .. lay the cheek of your hand firmly on the horse and spike him with the nozzle end to practice the procedure and don't forget to tell your feet to move with the horse if it should move or duck away ..
Now that you know how to do this ... fix your shot ... now PINCH the area the needle will enter for 3-5 seconds and then flatten out any skin that might want to bunch up .... and give your shot by keeping everything steady and pressed firmly against the horse while keeping the pressure position for a few seconds to make sure there is no drip affect when removing the needle .... remove the needle in one swift movement and press your finger on the injection site for 20-30 seconds to close it up .. ... always try to use a 20 gauge needle even if it takes a little longer with thicker meds ...
A 20 gauge needle will bend and flex a little bit should the horse move or syringe gets wiggled ... where a 16 or 20 gauge needle will slice the muscle inside the injection site and create problems a day or so later ...
I am going to sound mean but sane right here .... As livestock owners we all owe it to ourselves and family to make careful decisions on putting ourselves in financial hardship by basing the amount of vetting and meds to be used based on the value of the animal and the value of the animal if they live but have physical problems that limit their use. ... I know it is tuff to think about but there comes a time a rainbow bridge decision may have to be made ... so know your limits and make the decision you think is right with no regrets!! ... GOD BLESS ... |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thanks so much guys for all the conversation.
Rodeoveteran, that is awful sweet of you to offer that mask but I do have a Guardian mask--I am also unlucky enough to have a headshaker, so I have a number of masks. I'll email you so you see I responded.
FlyingHigh, let's hope it's not Lepto! It will take about a week to find out.
BarrelHorseUSA, thanks for writing all that. I'm going to come back and reread. Have to hurry now. I will mention the tear duct thing to vet. I wondered if it could be something simple like that because you could easily miss a microscopic piece of something in there. I should mention that the eye is all inflamed in the back quadrant. We are not giving Banamine now. We switched to Bute. It's not just for the pain but for the inflammation I believe she said. I don't think he's going to be on it long. He's not a big ulcer candidate, though I know he could get one. He's easy-going. He is NOT drinking water normally. He drank it better yesterday. I am watching. I will wet his hay and grain.
Anyway, update: I have been religious about doing his eye and I've been putting the ointments in 7 times a day. I feel like I bundle up, go outside, unbundle, then it's time to bundle back up again. The bundling takes more time than doctoring the horse! lol He has been amazing. He is now allowing me to put the ointments in without even putting a halter on him! Saves so much time. He likes it when I take a very warm wet washcloth and wash his face, going over the eye and gently holding it there for a couple of seconds. Last night his eye was slightly opened for the first time and I thought there was less fluid coming from it. I am praying there's more improvement today. Gotta run and get out there. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks again so much! I love this horse!
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Banamine is best for eye pain!!!! it will alos help with the inflammation so switch back at your next administration or if you feel you need to, you can give half doses of each. Check with your vet to see if they can be mixed in a syringe,if you are giving by shot....Banamine will react with a lot of stuff so you have to be careful what you mix it with and I cannot remember if Bute is one of them.
I have been assuming all along that they tear ducts were flushed. Hopefully the vet checked that out. I had a mare who teared constantly. Asked the vet to flush ducts , we stained and treated with various antibiotics and Banamine but it kept on over months. Finally took her to State and over $700 later all they could tell me was she had poor tear quality. She ended up developing a corneal ulcer despite our best efforts and needed surgery (hence the eye guard). I have since come up with the theory that she would irritate that eye by lying down on her front end only and laying her head down to eat at hay under the panels in my barn....I had seen her do this many times, and the sand and salt would get in her eye, the salt drying the tears out and eventually damaging the eye itself.
I hope that you can get to the bottom of this quickly. Have patience but do not ignore. The stuff out horses put us through....seems like I am always doctoring on something!
edited to add: Bute is more for skeletal/joint type pain and Banamine is more for soft tissue (not just gut pain), eyes are soft tissue. I have dealt with several eye issues and all vets concerned have told me that Banamine is best for eye pain,so this is not just my opinion.
Edited by rodeoveteran 2016-01-15 9:26 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2489
Location: somewhere up north | We have a now 3 year old that had eye problems start when he was about 4 months old. We noticed it to be a bit cloudy and called the vet asap. We know you don't want to wait or mess around with eye issues. He had nothing in it, no injury. We treated it for months. It would get better and when we would take him off the ointment and it would flare up again. We had an opthamologist look at it...he did nothing for us...our local vet had already done everything he could think of. We sent in blood work. Nothing showed up. We did an accupunture serum around the eye. That didn't help. At first we were putting two ointments in his eye several times a day. We contiplated taking the eye out but thought we don't know that whatever is targeting that eye won't just go to the good eye. We had three different vets look at it. Finally our local vet said maybe we just try an antifungal treatment. We did an ointment and oral powder. I even called the University of MN asking them if they had any other ideas (same opthamologist goes there...so I knew they couldn't help) or would they take him for research (we would donate him). They thought fungal was highly unlikely where we live and said good luck we don't want him. We tried it anyways and it's theonly thing that worked. We kept him on it for a year. Oral and eye ointment. Then took him off both and it was the first time it didn't flare up again. Then started back on the oral in Spring before the snow starts to melt. He is now 3 and although sometimes it does look a bit cloudy, he can see out of it and it's pretty much normal and WAy better than it was.
We often said if he wasn't so good about treating it then we wouldn't have stuck with it. He would let us put ointment in his eye without a halter. Such a sweet heart.
Good luck with your horse! |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Just remembered that I was given an ointment called Thermazine. It is not an opthamolic ointment but was told to use in the eye. It is an antibiotic AND anti fungal. May want to ask your vet about it. I don't think it was very expensive and would cover BOTH bases. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Just something to keep a watch for -- atrophine does tend to slow gut motility, which mean colic is a possible side effect, particularly if the atrophine has to be used long term. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I do know of a horse who had a fungal infection in her eye, it took two vets to diagnose it.
The vet stitched a flush into the eye, and flushed freshly spun platelets/plasma every 4 hours for 48 hours then every 6 for some time. The horse was getting platelets/plasma in the eye for 2 weeks.
Now the horse has a small scar (you need to look for the scar to see it) and perfect vision |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | There has been some improvement. The eye is opened almost all the way and there's less tearing. It still looks bad though. But compared to what it was... I've been putting what I believe are anti-fungals--Chloramphenicol and Variconazole--in his eye 6 to 7 times a day, plus Atropine twice a day. I am also putting an antibiotic in the good eye twice a day, which had some small tearing and that eye is perfectly normal now. We're about ready to stop treating that eye.
The vets think there is an abscess and a fungus deep inside the eyeball, not on the surface. That's why the cytology (scraping) didn't show it. But we don't really know for sure. We're still waiting for the results of the Leptosporosis test.
Rodeoveteran, I will ask about switching to Banamine and also flushing the tear ducts. I will also ask about the Thermazine ointment. These vets are trying to watch my money--I think they are being really conscientious about doing what is most likely to be effective and cost effective.
Chasincansmn, that sounds hopeful.
SCwrangler, yes, they warned me about the Atropine possibly causing colic. Makes me nervous.
Cheryl, they took blood to do what you said, spin for platelets or something, in case we need it. Did that actually work? |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Oh boy, this is not good. When I last wrote, he had two days where it looked like it was improving and the good eye which had started slightly tearing, was perfectly normal. Then the next day, it was bad again. The bad eye is all closed up and tearing and the good eye is tearing a bit again. I was freaking out because I had hope there for a minute but now it's been three full weeks of treatment (and I've been religious--I treat him a MINIMUM of six times a day) and no improvement whatsoever. When I talked to the vet two days ago (she's been in constant contact with me texting and on the phone) she felt confident that it was an abscess brewing inside the eyeball and a fungus inside the eyeball. She ordered oral anti-fungal medication now because I told her if that's what she thinks it is and if she thinks that'll help, let's do it. Another $250 later.... I should get it in the mail tomorrow. But I am not sure if I agree that it's an abscess and fungus inside that bad eye because why is the good eye tearing? It is tearing now regularly even though I am applying antibiotic ointment to that eye. I'm no vet and I believe I have great vets working with me, but my gut tells me it's something systemic. Because why does the other eye seem affected? Could it be pain radiating from the bad eye?
We still haven't gotten back the results from the Leptospiroris test but the vet said even if that's positive, she doesn't think it is what's causing this in the eye. When I was reading about Lepto, I learned that penicillin, which is what Frodo recommended, is one of the treatments of choice. When this initially started and I asked about using penicillin, the vet said the horse is too big and would need two big shots at a time and she didn't recommend that. She also said sometimes horses can be injected with penicillin ten times and then on the eleventh time, he could suddenly have a seizure. I am going to bring it up to her again. Because I think it's Lepto. What do you guys think about the penicillin? Have you ever heard or experienced any bad stories about it?
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | I feel horrible for you.Im one that spent over 5000 bucks on my grade 800.00 appy and lost the eye in the end.our final answer came from ohio state veterinary hospital.He thrived after the removal but the time , dedication and meds were overwhelming. All I can say is good luck to you and im sorry you are going thru this! |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Could the good eye be getting irritated by the antibiotics you are putting in it? He could have rubbed either eye, making them worse. When hubby's horse had a fungal abcess in his sys, it started out with a cloudy spot which after treating for a few days all of a sudden looked like a pimple ready to pop, never did take the stain until State scraped UNDER the epithelial cells.
Sorry this is not going better. |
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 Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5408
| With penicillian you just have to draw your syringe back after inserting the needle to make sure no blood comes out. If it does just reposisition your needle, don't even have to take needle out all the way, just out of the muscle and move slightly. If you make sure no blood you shouldn't have any problems.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SmokinBandits - 2016-01-18 5:26 PM
There has been some improvement. The eye is opened almost all the way and there's less tearing. It still looks bad though. But compared to what it was... I've been putting what I believe are anti-fungals--Chloramphenicol and Variconazole--in his eye 6 to 7 times a day, plus Atropine twice a day. I am also putting an antibiotic in the good eye twice a day, which had some small tearing and that eye is perfectly normal now. We're about ready to stop treating that eye.
The vets think there is an abscess and a fungus deep inside the eyeball, not on the surface. That's why the cytology (scraping) didn't show it. But we don't really know for sure. We're still waiting for the results of the Leptosporosis test.
Rodeoveteran, I will ask about switching to Banamine and also flushing the tear ducts. I will also ask about the Thermazine ointment. These vets are trying to watch my money--I think they are being really conscientious about doing what is most likely to be effective and cost effective.
Chasincansmn, that sounds hopeful.
SCwrangler, yes, they warned me about the Atropine possibly causing colic. Makes me nervous.
Cheryl, they took blood to do what you said, spin for platelets or something, in case we need it. Did that actually work?
Worked like a dream, the horse isn't mine, the owner says there is a scar, however I can't see the scar |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| To respond to the vets penicillin comment.
You need to find a different vet, one who is spreading the lies about penicillin, is not knowledgable to deal with the eye.
Yes horses can have a procamide reaction. The local freezing in the intramuscular penicillin, IF it gets into the blood stream, it goes to the brain, and shut it off. Majority of horses will come out of it.
I have had it happen 3 times.
First was when I was 10, hit blood neighbour said it was okay to continue, she did the funky chicken and was fine in 30 min.
Second I pulled back no blood, 30 seconds later the horse flipped over the panels, ran through 2 fences, I couldn't get close to him for an hour. Surprising no physical injuries, and he was fine too.
Third horse I was using long acting, no blood when I withdrew, she pranced around the pasture for 30 min never harmed herself.
Yes your horse would need around 60 ml twice a day (this is the dosage my vet suggest I use on all full grown horses) for 3 days then 30ml twice a day for 11 days. My vet likes 2 weeks of penicillin.
As others say withdraw once inserted into the muscle to ensure you have no blood. Since I have had a few, I withdraw every 5 cc given.
There is also IV penicillin that if you can do IV administration no chance of seizure, it has to be given ever 6 hours as it has a short half life. This you have to get from your vet. On really sick horses I will give this for 24 hours then switch to 30 ml twice a day as the intravenous penicillin, gets therapeutic plasma levels up within that time. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Oh Jake16, that's what I'm afraid of. You are not the first person who told me a story like that; spent thousands of dollars and still lost the eye. That's the road I think I'm on.
Rodeoveteran, I don't think the tearing in the good eye is from the antibiotics because we started the antibiotic ointment in that eye because it started tearing. So it was tearing first. She also said the same thing--maybe he was rubbing it or something. Although I've never seen him rub. She wants to see it (her partners saw it--I'm working with three vets on the same team who I feel are very good) since I think it's related to the bad eye.
Cheryle and Euchee, thanks for the info on the penicillin. Cheryl, that scares me what you described! I can't do IV shots. Glad to hear the results of the blood spinning thing Cheryl.
I still have to reread everything BarrelHorseUSA said. It's been so hectic here treating him every two to three hours and trying to work so I can pay for it all and now we're having a blizzard!
Update: the Lepto came back NEGATIVE. Honestly, I was shocked. Vet still feels confident it's an abscess and fungus. I am waiting for a new medicine to be delivered. An ORAL anti-fungal. We'll start him on that and in a few days I'll get the vet out again.
Thank you so much everybody! I am grateful for the help on here!
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 Expert
Posts: 1218
Location: South MS | SmokinBandits - 2016-01-10 4:52 PM My beautiful Paint in my avatar came out of the field on New Year's, Friday morning, with his eye tearing (clear) and swollen shut. On Sunday morning the covering vet came. The eye didn't take the dye, indicating it wasn't an injury. I was shocked she thought it could be more than a scrape or a piece of hay stuck in it. He's 18. Never had eye problems before. She did some stuff and left me with an antibiotic/steroid ointment, Atropine ointment, and Banamine. No improvement. My regular vet came out Thursday morning and spent three hours examining him, including cytology (sp?)--taking cells to send up to the "experts," and consulting with New Bolton. She ruled out injury, moonblindness, and something systemic. This was the horse who was lethargic a few months ago when I switched to the low sugar grain. She said no, it has nothing to do with that. She suspects an abscess, though it doesn't present in a classic way, or fungus. Tomorrow morning we should find out when we get the results from the culture if it's a fungus. She said stop using the antiobiotic/steroid I had been given, and left me with two tubes of fungal cream and instructed to continue with the Atropine and Bute. I have been dedicated even though he's been fighting me because it hurts so much and getting it into his eye at least four times a day, sometimes more. But there hasn't been any improvement. His eye is 40% grey and cloudy and I can see he doesn't feel good at all. He's not drinking his water well. The vet mentioned the option of removing the eye, worst case scenario, and I know they can live fine without it, but removing an eye is very drastic. However, I don't have the money to go on a wild goose chase (a friend had the same thing happen and wound up spending four grand and the horse still lost his eye) PLUS I don't want this horse to suffer unnecessarily! I've done this before with animals--treat, and treat, and treat, and the whole time they're suffering and it's just horrible! Any info or stories you can tell me would be appreciated and I'd like your opinion on how far to go. Thank you!
I have a horse with uveitis-I know its not the same- I give him 10k MSM daily with AntiH (Animed) daily - he doesnt have problems with this. I would add MSM to his diet for the anti inflammatory effects and keep a mask on at all times (one of the UV ones)
I use atropine and prednosine drops and after I wash with saline 2x daily when we are having problems. When on the drops he cant go outside in the light. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | SmokinBandits - 2016-01-23 8:00 AM
Oh Jake16, that's what I'm afraid of. You are not the first person who told me a story like that; spent thousands of dollars and still lost the eye. That's the road I think I'm on.
Rodeoveteran, I don't think the tearing in the good eye is from the antibiotics because we started the antibiotic ointment in that eye because it started tearing. So it was tearing first. She also said the same thing--maybe he was rubbing it or something. Although I've never seen him rub. She wants to see it (her partners saw it--I'm working with three vets on the same team who I feel are very good) since I think it's related to the bad eye.
Cheryle and Euchee, thanks for the info on the penicillin. Cheryl, that scares me what you described! I can't do IV shots. Glad to hear the results of the blood spinning thing Cheryl.
I still have to reread everything BarrelHorseUSA said. It's been so hectic here treating him every two to three hours and trying to work so I can pay for it all and now we're having a blizzard!
Update: the Lepto came back NEGATIVE. Honestly, I was shocked. Vet still feels confident it's an abscess and fungus. I am waiting for a new medicine to be delivered. An ORAL anti-fungal. We'll start him on that and in a few days I'll get the vet out again.
Thank you so much everybody! I am grateful for the help on here!
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I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | Still sending prayers... |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thanks guys.
No new updates other than I am climbing through thigh-high snow in this blizzard to get to the barn six times a day to put the ointments in and carrying many buckets of water from the house because my hydrants are frozen! I am doing it! No one is going to say that he lost the eye because I didn't get those ointments in! I haven't missed one! |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas |  Another good Momma!
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2016-01-24 4:13 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SmokinBandits - 2016-01-24 7:32 AM
Thanks guys.
No new updates other than I am climbing through thigh-high snow in this blizzard to get to the barn six times a day to put the ointments in and carrying many buckets of water from the house because my hydrants are frozen! I am doing it! No one is going to say that he lost the eye because I didn't get those ointments in! I haven't missed one!
Bless your heart, prayers that you dont get sick working as hard as you have been |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I can only imagine how stressful it must be to not have solid answers for what he has, but yay, no lepto.
We just had another checkup on our lepto mare, and she's lost quite a bit of vision in her right eye now, so sadly, the treatment we have her on isn't saving her eye either. So it's been a hard past week for us here too finding that out. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | SmokinBandits - 2016-01-24 7:32 AM
Thanks guys.
No new updates other than I am climbing through thigh-high snow in this blizzard to get to the barn six times a day to put the ointments in and carrying many buckets of water from the house because my hydrants are frozen! I am doing it! No one is going to say that he lost the eye because I didn't get those ointments in! I haven't missed one!
Do you have an update? So sorry for you ladies that are going thru these eye issues. . |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | Checking up on you and your boy.any new updates? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| I thought id share my story!
Long story short, My gelding poked his eye, had a melting corneal ulcer, I got the surgery done, the surgery didnt work and the eye lid patch died and I continued 5X a day with 5 ointments into his eye, this was all over 5 MONTHS, then we decided to take out his eye, I didn't want to put him through anymore, I was worried he wouldn't make a barrel horse with one eye, took his eye out and put the prosthetic eye in and he rejected it so bad to the vets once again to get that removed, $4000 dollars later I should of just taken the eye out in the beginning, He turned a barrel nicer without the eye! and I felt guilty putting him all through that..
I also had his full brother in my pasture, a year after his incident to the date he poked his eye  I did however decide to go with treating his eye, and if was to progress any worse i was going to just take it out knowing what I knew, but I got lucky and the drops worked, he was however still blind in the eye because there was scarring!
and believe it or not the sister out of the same dam as the 2 brothers poked her eye as well, at this point she was hardly halter broke, I did however leave the eye and fed her some bute, I was a little frustrated and I did keep a close "eye" on her lol and was ready to take the eye out if I had too, but after a month she cleared up and she was also blind due to scarring.
after all that and If i had another horse that needed it, I would take it out and save them the pain, of course Ill try the drops but if its not clearing up I wouldn't do the surgery again, it was alot to put him through for an eye to try and save an eye. and he has the worlds biggest personality! He is sooo cute without his eye! I just love it! 3 siblings with 1 eye! I no longer own any of them but I am currently in the process of buying one back because I miss him They are wicked little barrel horses still! |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | FlyingHigh, I'm very sorry your mare is not doing well. Are both her eyes affected?
Everyone else, I'm too tired to thank you all individually but I really really appreciate you talking to me.
Update: I feel sick from the stress. It is killing me seeing him like this and it is causing a financial hardship on my family. For three weeks I went out there 6 to 7 times a day and applied the antifungal ointments and the Atropine in the bad eye. He lets me so I am sure I am getting it in. His bad eye is exactly the same. His good eye had a little tear and looked sleepy. Vet didn't seem to think it was anything much to worry about. I don't think she thought it was related. But I thought it was a funny coincidence. She gave me an antibiotic ointment for that eye. Maybe he rubbed it? Maybe the pain from the other eye was causing it to tear? Way back when this all started, I noticed MY eyes felt a little irritated. I mentioned it to the vet. I tend to get pink eye but haven't had it in years and was thinking I was just getting sympathy pains. She took note. I forgot about it until today. I am sure I have pink eye. About a week ago I noticed the white on Lowdown's good eye is pink. I was thinking, hmm, is that normal? You don't normally see the whites of their eyes and I don't remember it being that pink-looking. I am extremely conscientious about washing my hands and not touching my face, etc. so if this is something that we spread to each other, it happened back in December before I even knew he had a problem.
When the vet came out a few days ago and checked the bad eye, she said it wasn't what she was expecting. She thinks the abscess, if it really is an abscess, might have ruptured. I will have to take him to the hospital to find out. I thought if I am going to do that, I am just going to have them take his eye out. I can't keep spending money on stuff that's not working. I just had expensive medication delivered that day--the oral anti-fungal--and so we decided to start him on that as a Hail Mary, and discussed adding an antibiotic. So far he hasn't had any antibiotics. Tonight when we were communicating, she seemed a little negative about the antibiotic; mentioned his gut. But I feel like we should hit him hard as a last resort. However, I am not the vet and it scares me to push my own ideas.
In a nutshell, I'm afraid if we take out the bad eye, something is going to happen to the good eye because that eye is not quite right. Does anyone know about giving oral-antifungal medication and antibiotics at the same time? I don't want to waste any more time. I want to get an antibiotic into him but I also don't want to stop the oral-antifungal.
I hope that was clear. I'm a little tired... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| SmokinBandits - 2016-02-03 11:44 PM
FlyingHigh, I'm very sorry your mare is not doing well. Are both her eyes affected?
Her right eye is the one that has it the worst, but yes, she has mild irritation in her left, but it responds quite well to the steriods and atropine.
We know where you are on the money aspect. We have put a LOT of money into this mare last year, and to just have her be a broodmare was heartbreaking. Not just on her eyes, she also came up mysteriously lame about the same time, and had to have xrays, multiple joint injections, and it turned out her soles were so thin her bone was only inches from going through the frog in both front feet. So she had special shoes put on, had to be stalled most of the time and live in bell boots, because if she ripped those shoes off, she would've been in some deep doo doo, because they probably would take the whole hoof with them. This was only two weeks before her lepto diagnosis (not connected, we just have really really bad luck), and the horrible reaction to the treatment which was awful in it's own right.
I know we worry about her good eye all the time, because we fear when the uveitis takes all the vision from her right, it may move on and destroy the remaining healthy tissue in the left too, leaving her totally blind.
Truthfully, at this point, colic and ulcers are just going to have to be risked, because if you wait too long (and it might already be 'too long') it may be permanent damage being done. If its as simple as an infection from an abscess, it should clear right up with the right antibiotic in a matter of weeks. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Oh boy FlyingHigh, you've had some bad luck too. I'm so sorry. I wish I could think of something to say to make you feel better but I'm sure you've heard it all. We just have to be strong and do our best. And I also think, thank God my horses are in my hands. I may not be rich, but I do know I give them the best of care and it's obvious you do too. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Thank you, and your right, we have just about heard it all. Just makes us glad we didn't sell her when the chance presented itself, because it would make us feel awful if she wasn't getting treated the way she deserves, especially after all she's done for me over the years. To see her get treated like we see the other local horses with lepto being treated would make me psycho. haha
We just take it a day at a time, and preach the lepto vaccine to any horse owner who will listen. Just because it came too little, too late for our horse, doesn't mean we can't prevent others from getting it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| SmokinBandits - 2016-02-03 10:44 PM
FlyingHigh, I'm very sorry your mare is not doing well. Are both her eyes affected?
Everyone else, I'm too tired to thank you all individually but I really really appreciate you talking to me.
Update: I feel sick from the stress. It is killing me seeing him like this and it is causing a financial hardship on my family. For three weeks I went out there 6 to 7 times a day and applied the antifungal ointments and the Atropine in the bad eye. He lets me so I am sure I am getting it in. His bad eye is exactly the same. His good eye had a little tear and looked sleepy. Vet didn't seem to think it was anything much to worry about. I don't think she thought it was related. But I thought it was a funny coincidence. She gave me an antibiotic ointment for that eye. Maybe he rubbed it? Maybe the pain from the other eye was causing it to tear? Way back when this all started, I noticed MY eyes felt a little irritated. I mentioned it to the vet. I tend to get pink eye but haven't had it in years and was thinking I was just getting sympathy pains. She took note. I forgot about it until today. I am sure I have pink eye. About a week ago I noticed the white on Lowdown's good eye is pink. I was thinking, hmm, is that normal? You don't normally see the whites of their eyes and I don't remember it being that pink-looking. I am extremely conscientious about washing my hands and not touching my face, etc. so if this is something that we spread to each other, it happened back in December before I even knew he had a problem.
When the vet came out a few days ago and checked the bad eye, she said it wasn't what she was expecting. She thinks the abscess, if it really is an abscess, might have ruptured. I will have to take him to the hospital to find out. I thought if I am going to do that, I am just going to have them take his eye out. I can't keep spending money on stuff that's not working. I just had expensive medication delivered that day--the oral anti-fungal--and so we decided to start him on that as a Hail Mary, and discussed adding an antibiotic. So far he hasn't had any antibiotics. Tonight when we were communicating, she seemed a little negative about the antibiotic; mentioned his gut. But I feel like we should hit him hard as a last resort. However, I am not the vet and it scares me to push my own ideas.
In a nutshell, I'm afraid if we take out the bad eye, something is going to happen to the good eye because that eye is not quite right. Does anyone know about giving oral-antifungal medication and antibiotics at the same time? I don't want to waste any more time. I want to get an antibiotic into him but I also don't want to stop the oral-antifungal.
I hope that was clear. I'm a little tired...
Before sinking any more money into treatment, please take the horse for a second opinion.
There are certain meds that cannot be given together as they can cause multisystem organ failure.
You need to speak with a vet about which antibiotic is safe to give with which antifungsl he is on |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Oh I thought the plan was stop the antifungals and try an antibiotic? Maybe I got lost along the way.
ETA: I agree with the second opinion, though.
Edited by FlyingHigh1454 2016-02-04 11:09 AM
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Hi guys. I don't think I have to take him for a second opinion because three vets have seen him who have an excellent reputation plus they've been in consultation with opthlamologists at Penn State and another top facilty around here. I really do feel that we've been getting the best of care and if the vet isn't checking for everything in the world, it's because she's trying to watch my finances.
Cheryl, the vet checked about which antibiotic we could safely use with the oral anti-fungal. She WAS concerned about that. We are going to use minocycline, I think it's called. I don't think she feels we need an antibiotic but I fear it's systemic because of his past lethargy (she thinks it has nothing to do with the eye problem) and because the good eye is affected with what we believe is pink eye. I pushed for the antibiotic because I want to cover the bases.
FlyingHigh, I also think about that. I am so glad he is in my hands.
Okay, little update. He has pink eye in the good eye. We swtiched to a different antibiotic ointment for the good eye that's more appropriate for pink eye. I had a mild case of pink eye too. Hot compresses stopped it. Vet said it's not uncommon for people treating horses with eye problems to get pink eye. Though I have been extremely vigilant about cleanliness, I am prone to pink eye. Have had it before, so in myself, I knew exactly what I was feeling. I just think it's a funny coincidence that my horse has two different eye problems at the same time. I think they must be related.
He has been on the oral anti-fungal for about a week-and-a-half. A couple of days ago, I opened a new container of Bute. That night he had obviously less tearing and continues to have less tearing. It's still a lot, but compared to what it was.... The only change was the new container of Bute. I dug it out of the garbage and checked the date. It expired a few months ago! I don't know if it was the fresh Bute that caused the decrease in tearing or the oral anti-fungal kicked in. Either way, it's hopeful. Because now we would be happy if we could just stop the inflammation and infection so that he doesn't have to get the eye removed. He may be blind but that's not the end of the world.
We will start the oral antibiotic. I am a little nervous about it because it was my idea more than the vet's but I feel that if he has something going on in his system, it could hit on it.
That's where we're at now. Thank you all again for all your help and conversation. I always look forward to coming back here to see what you've said! |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | So sorry for not updating sooner! I hate it when I'm left hanging on a thread!
Since using the fresh container of Bute, the tearing in the eye decreased for a few days, then it got bad again, but not quite as bad as when this all started, and now tonight it decreased again, and the eye is opening up a little when he wants to look at something. I can see the back third is all cloudy. I decided to just finish out the 30 days of the oral anti-fungal before I started the oral antibiotic. Tomorrow I'll be done with the anti-fungal and starting the antibiotic. This is a Hail Mary. I don't think the vet thinks the antibiotic will help. To recap, she THINKS there is a fungus and an abscess that probably ruptured deep inside the eyeball, though the cyctology (scraping) showed no fungus. She said it's probably because it's deep inside and the eyeball healed over it. I think this has been going on long enough. It's been almost two months. I was thinking I'd give the antibiotic ten days to see some kind of improvement and if there isn't any, I should get it over with and take the eye out. It's so stressful to know what to do.... When do I cut my losses?! |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Truthfully if it isnt healing he probrably will feel better with it out. it must be painful.I know many horses with one eye and still very productive. of course thats if the treatments arent working.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So sorry that its not healing, but if this were my horse I would have a second opinion befor deciding to remove the eye, but thats just me. You may have already done this as I didnt read all the posts, good luck on what you do most of us have been where your at and its not a good feeling hugs to you and your boy |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Oh I thought shed had a few other opinions.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-23 6:16 PM Oh I thought shed had a few other opinions..
Oh I dont know if she had other opinions just me thinking to myself, lol. But I agree if the eye is not healing then its best to remove it, but I would just want another opinion from another vet just to back up that the eye is not healing befor having it removed. I have known a few one eye horses and they all have done really well..Some were pony horses barrel/pole horses jumpers and just good old pasture pets. Had one myself  |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | SmokinBandits - 2016-02-03 11:44 PM
FlyingHigh, I'm very sorry your mare is not doing well. Are both her eyes affected?
Everyone else, I'm too tired to thank you all individually but I really really appreciate you talking to me.
Update: I feel sick from the stress. It is killing me seeing him like this and it is causing a financial hardship on my family. For three weeks I went out there 6 to 7 times a day and applied the antifungal ointments and the Atropine in the bad eye. He lets me so I am sure I am getting it in. His bad eye is exactly the same. His good eye had a little tear and looked sleepy. Vet didn't seem to think it was anything much to worry about. I don't think she thought it was related. But I thought it was a funny coincidence. She gave me an antibiotic ointment for that eye. Maybe he rubbed it? Maybe the pain from the other eye was causing it to tear? Way back when this all started, I noticed MY eyes felt a little irritated. I mentioned it to the vet. I tend to get pink eye but haven't had it in years and was thinking I was just getting sympathy pains. She took note. I forgot about it until today. I am sure I have pink eye. About a week ago I noticed the white on Lowdown's good eye is pink. I was thinking, hmm, is that normal? You don't normally see the whites of their eyes and I don't remember it being that pink-looking. I am extremely conscientious about washing my hands and not touching my face, etc. so if this is something that we spread to each other, it happened back in December before I even knew he had a problem.
When the vet came out a few days ago and checked the bad eye, she said it wasn't what she was expecting. She thinks the abscess, if it really is an abscess, might have ruptured. I will have to take him to the hospital to find out. I thought if I am going to do that, I am just going to have them take his eye out. I can't keep spending money on stuff that's not working. I just had expensive medication delivered that day--the oral anti-fungal--and so we decided to start him on that as a Hail Mary, and discussed adding an antibiotic. So far he hasn't had any antibiotics. Tonight when we were communicating, she seemed a little negative about the antibiotic; mentioned his gut. But I feel like we should hit him hard as a last resort. However, I am not the vet and it scares me to push my own ideas.
In a nutshell, I'm afraid if we take out the bad eye, something is going to happen to the good eye because that eye is not quite right. Does anyone know about giving oral-antifungal medication and antibiotics at the same time? I don't want to waste any more time. I want to get an antibiotic into him but I also don't want to stop the oral-antifungal.
I hope that was clear. I'm a little tired...
Take him to hospital...see what they say.you are way into this and if it was a rupture of an abscess truth is his eye is most likely heavily damaged anyway.I give you alot of credit for going so far with no improvement.my guys good eye was alittle teary due to overflow of crap from bad eye and cleared up great after bad eye was removed.continued prayers. |
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Veteran
Posts: 154
| I was hoping that your eye problems had healed up. Hopi g for some better news next time you check in. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Prayers for your guy and also the 6 year old that just had his eye removed. We had a couple of people in our area that had horses with one eye and they coped great. And still ran dang good barrels! |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Yes, I've had other opinions. I've had three vets here five or six times and my vet also consulted with eye doctors at Penn State and some top horse hospital around here. They THINK, no one is really sure, it's an abscess and fungus inside the eyeball. In their defense, we could have done more diagnostics if money was no object. I'm going to try the antibiotic and if there's no improvement in ten days or so, we'll take him to Penn State. They won't remove the eye if they don't think it needs to be removed. But if we get to that point where I take him up there, I think that's what's going to happen....
Thanks again friends. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | There's been a slight improvement. A few days ago the tearing decreased to very little or none at all and the eye started opening up. I'm trying not to get my hopes up! The back third of the iris is all grey and the white behind it is pink. Two days ago we finished the 30 day supply of the oral anti-fungal and the improvement, so far, has continued. I was about to start the oral antibiotic but did not because he might not need it, going by the improvement. I'm watching him closely. At the slightest sign of trouble, I will start it, and/or restart the anti-fungal. I feel hopeful! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SmokinBandits - 2016-02-29 10:17 PM There's been a slight improvement. A few days ago the tearing decreased to very little or none at all and the eye started opening up. I'm trying not to get my hopes up! The back third of the iris is all grey and the white behind it is pink. Two days ago we finished the 30 day supply of the oral anti-fungal and the improvement, so far, has continued. I was about to start the oral antibiotic but did not because he might not need it, going by the improvement. I'm watching him closely. At the slightest sign of trouble, I will start it, and/or restart the anti-fungal. I feel hopeful!
I hope his eye just keeps on getting better, with all the hard work that you have been putting into him I think its time for some good news for the both of of. |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thank you South. It will be a miracle if this continues! |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | Maybe you have turned a corner!! Yay! I sure hope he continues to get better! |
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 If it Ain't a Paint it Ain't!
Posts: 8519
Location: Mansfield, Tx | WOW, I hope this the eye is getting better ...
I know he is thanking you for all your hard work you are putting in taking care of him... Praying it pays off soon.
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Omg people, I think we made it! His eye continued to improve. We finished the oral anti-fungal about two weeks ago and then I stopped the Bute and the Atropine about a week ago and never started the oral antibiotic and the eye looks great! It is open and there is no tearing. I can see grey cloudiness in the back quarter. I'm pretty sure that has shrunk. I'm pretty sure that a few days ago there was more grey, about a third. But now it's only a quarter. The white behind it looks pretty good. It had been all red. It's white with some brown and pink in it now. And he can see out of it! I made motions being careful not to make noise or move the air and he blinks! I can't even believe it! Thank you all so much for all your stories and advice and just your ear. It meant a lot to me to have all your shoulders to cry on! |
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10D Crack Champion
| Hope the eye heals up! |
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 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | Many prayers to you. |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Yay, sure hope the eye keeps clearing up. 
Last year I was fighting an ulcer in my (then) 5 month old colt that ended up heeling so fast it turned into an abscess... it ended up heeling alright. Now you really have to know where to look, or you wouldn't even know he had a problem. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I'm so glad to hear he's getting better and will be able to keep his eye.
Wish I had a happy update, but sadly I don't. We have also stopped the eye treatments since she now has a fully formed cataract and complete loss of vision in that eye so there is nothing left to save. So far her other eye is unaffected, luckily. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SmokinBandits - 2016-03-14 10:17 PM Omg people, I think we made it! His eye continued to improve. We finished the oral anti-fungal about two weeks ago and then I stopped the Bute and the Atropine about a week ago and never started the oral antibiotic and the eye looks great! It is open and there is no tearing. I can see grey cloudiness in the back quarter. I'm pretty sure that has shrunk. I'm pretty sure that a few days ago there was more grey, about a third. But now it's only a quarter. The white behind it looks pretty good. It had been all red. It's white with some brown and pink in it now. And he can see out of it! I made motions being careful not to make noise or move the air and he blinks! I can't even believe it! Thank you all so much for all your stories and advice and just your ear. It meant a lot to me to have all your shoulders to cry on!
You are AWESOME, you kept at it when lots would have giving up , so happy to hear this great news, you need a huge hug |
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Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Thank you!
FlyingHigh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But luckily, like you said, the other eye is okay. Will you have to remove the bad eye? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| SmokinBandits - 2016-03-17 6:49 AM
Thank you!
FlyingHigh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But luckily, like you said, the other eye is okay. Will you have to remove the bad eye?
No, it doesn't seem to bother her too bad now that the cataract is fully formed. It still drains a little, but she doesn't hold it closed all the time now and it's not swollen anymore. We will still put a little in it if it swells up, but she is doing better with it now. She's adjusted pretty well to not being able to see out of it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 154
| Glad things are finally coming around.. Prayers for continued healing!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 623
Location: /ARKANSAS | I took my horse and dog to LSU, long trip, they couldn't help because he had uveitis in one eye and a large cataract in the other, the horse and dog! Had the dog's eyes removed one at a time. My horse does not seem to be in pain. He has a pasture to himself and shed. |
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How Long to Treat an Eye Problem Before Removing it?