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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
   
Location: Missouri | I had my colt started as a 2 y/o. After 30 days, the trainer said that he was really sore in the ribs (he thought from the cinch) and told me he had enough rides, so turn him out.
The following year (3 y/o), I sent him to a different trainer who kept him stalled 24/7 for 30 days. He was fresh every day (go figure) and she didn't really like him.
The fall of that year, I sent him to do ranch work. Again, after 30 days, he was very sore. When I picked him up, he was wobbly at a walk, couldn't hold a lead, and nearly fell over when mounted. I turned him out again and he improved within days.
I've ridden him myself since then (he's now coming 6). He seemed fine until late fall where he became very sore in the back end, losing leads, not turning, etc.
After having him vetted, they saw a tiny spot in his hock that they said shouldn't cause soreness, but they injected anyway. He has been turned out since.
This weekend, I sent him to be ridden at the sale barn. When I picked him up today, I was told that he was "loose in the back end."
Hearing that, I'm wondering about EPM. He is a tough horse (which is why I keep sending him out! lol!), cold-backed when I first start riding him after prolonged turn out. But, last year he really started maturing and acting half-way worth my time.
I'm just not sure what to think... another lameness exam obviously, but I just got off the phone with a vet who said it could be "just his gait."
If you've made it this far, I'm sorry for writing a book.
Any thoughts?
eta: Here is a video of him last summer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRb6y1Aik4
Edited by just4fun 2016-11-15 2:13 PM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | could it be PSSM? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM?
Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | just4fun - 2016-01-20 3:35 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM? Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
They tend to get better with a change in feeding (low sugar/starch) and regular exercise. Send his hair off to be tested, is inexpensive. If he is negative for PSSM1, then I would run a blood panel and also test for EPM... |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Anniemae - 2016-01-20 5:38 PM just4fun - 2016-01-20 3:35 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM? Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
What are we looking for with blood panel?
I will go ahead and test for PSSM. I thought about it before, but just put it off...
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | The way hes moving he looks like hes really tired and having a hard time keeping up, I would test him for EPM.. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| There are some tests you can do yourself. Cross front feet, if he stays that way, you have a problem. Raise his tail, there should be a lot of resistance. Lift his tail over his back and push it hard toward is front end hard. He should hump up like a scared cat. If you think the horse might have EPM go ahead and give it medicine. It won't hurt the horse. Injecting a horse will make a horse with EPM more pronounced. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| One other possibility could be sticky stifles. It feels like they fall out from under them self.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | His stifles look to be loose.. but the other issues would concern me.. did vet check his pelvis? |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I say get a great vet that works for YOU. With so much invested in him already with training,invest money in his health. I would absolutly check for EPM,PSSM,and do an overall lameness exam but I wouldnt inject at least untill you get results back on EPM. Good luck,dont run off and not keep us posted |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | He looks really sore in the stifles, more so in the right stifle ( which is usually where EPM shows up first.) He has no impulsion and drags his back toes going both ways. When you stopped him going to the left his right stifle caught. It might be EPM or it might be a joint problem. Im disappointed the vet didn't think he was sore just by watching him travel.
I hope you get him fixed up, he looks like a nice guy.
Edited by Liana D 2016-01-20 7:14 PM
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Thank you all so very much for the comments and advice! I had him sold and then backed out of the deal because I just know that something isn't right! And, I really feel like he's going to make a decent horse if I could just give him the right opportunities. But, then I'm back to banging my head against a wall because I cannot figure him out.
His stifles do stick occasionally. I just dismissed that thinking there must be other issues.
If anyone is interested, here are a couple of other videos.
This is of him working the flag for the first time. Forgive us, we're terrible. But, you can see that he kicks his hip out every time!!! So frustrating! And, he knows better! So I work on it as training, but maybe it's not??? This pen is very deep sand (same as video in first post) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rjIDW-RFkU
This pen is hard, and it seems to me that he moves much quieter and softer (poor quality, sorry!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn1rDv5kb1Y
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-20 8:04 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Unfortunately EPM doesn't present itself the same in every case. A vet put off testing for three months because he didn't show "typical" signs and passed the neuro exams. The only sign we had was muscle atrophy in the hind end. It was three months too late! Had a spinal tap done and confirmed the EPM. Go with your gut and get it tested. It's a small fee compared to what you risk losing. If it's not you can move on to other things to test for.
After having three horses with EPM, losing one, and retiring another, I test it at the first sign Of something off. Peace of mind for me!
Edited by FlyingJT 2016-01-20 8:21 PM
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Watching him work on the fence he is totally avoiding using his back end, especially on the right hind. You're doing everything correctly, backing before you roll him back, which should put him on his hind end, but he evades it.
Catchy stifles can come from stifle joint soreness, loose ligaments,sore hocks or EPM. Conversely loose stifle ligaments can cause stifle joint pain.
If he were mine, I woud find a good performance vet. your vet saying "that might be his normal gait" shows complete ignorance . |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | FlyingJT - 2016-01-20 8:16 PM Unfortunately EPM doesn't present itself the same in every case. A vet put off testing for three months because he didn't show "typical" signs and passed the neuro exams. The only sign we had was muscle atrophy in the hind end. It was three months too late! Had a spinal tap done and confirmed the EPM. Go with your gut and get it tested. It's a small fee compared to what you risk losing. If it's not you can move on to other things to test for. After having three horses with EPM, losing one, and retiring another, I test it at the first sign Of something off. Peace of mind for me!
All this^^ |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | You should give Dr. Ellison a call. She is super helpful and just wants the horses to get better. She can walk you through every step of your investigation and it isn't too awfully expensive. With what you've said and the weird times when his brain "checks-out" and he does something naughty, it sure could be EPM...
http://pathogenes.com/w/
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | ND3canAddict - 2016-01-22 7:26 AM You should give Dr. Ellison a call. She is super helpful and just wants the horses to get better. She can walk you through every step of your investigation and it isn't too awfully expensive. With what you've said and the weird times when his brain "checks-out" and he does something naughty, it sure could be EPM...http://pathogenes.com/w/
We started him on EPM meds (compound from Wedgewood). He has had 5 doses so far and today I see a very obvious difference. He is lethargic and his gait is very awkward (haven't seen it this bad since he came home from trainer as late 3y/o). I sent him around in the round pen some, and when I asked him to turn and come in, he had a couple of drunk steps before righting himself. He did not repeat it, but I know I saw it...
should add that the whole time he was moving, his ears were pinned flat to his head. That's not super abnormal for his not-so-charming self, but he usually gets over it quickly.
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-27 9:50 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | jake16 - 2016-01-27 9:20 PM Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal
Guess I didn't clarify that I wasn't riding...just sent him around to see how he was moving. I will leave him be now. I've never dealt with this before I didn't realize that he might get worse from the meds. Learning as I go, unfortunately. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | just4fun - 2016-01-27 10:26 PM
jake16 - 2016-01-27 9:20 PM Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal
Guess I didn't clarify that I wasn't riding...just sent him around to see how he was moving. I will leave him be now. I've never dealt with this before I didn't realize that he might get worse from the meds. Learning as I go, unfortunately.
its a "learn as you go" process.Good luck with your boy and keep us posted. Prayers to you both:) |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | There are several EPM threads on here I think. One that's finally reached a bright spot is Kathy and her mare Emma. "Help EPM or EPM Help" I think is it. She's documented her twists and turns and ups and downs but posted a video of Emma yesterday that is heartwarming considering all they've been thru. Prayers and best wishes for you and your boy. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Thank you again for the information and the thoughts and prayers.
I called Pathogenes, but they didn't offer any advice other than saying to send in a sample. I called a local vet to see if he would work with me on getting that done. (basically, I think I just need a red-top tube??? I won't have lameness scores, but hopefully they will accept anyway)
I will update with results.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Liana D - 2016-01-20 8:29 PM
Watching him work on the fence he is totally avoiding using his back end, especially on the right hind. You're doing everything correctly, backing before you roll him back, which should put him on his hind end, but he evades it.
Catchy stifles can come from stifle joint soreness, loose ligaments,sore hocks or EPM. Conversely loose stifle ligaments can cause stifle joint pain.
If he were mine, I woud find a good performance vet. your vet saying "that might be his normal gait" shows complete ignorance .
Ditto, but it's his left leg that he is having the most trouble with.
Good luck, I hope the treatment for EPM heals him up.
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | streakysox - 2016-01-20 6:15 PM There are some tests you can do yourself. Cross front feet, if he stays that way, you have a problem. Raise his tail, there should be a lot of resistance. Lift his tail over his back and push it hard toward is front end hard. He should hump up like a scared cat. If you think the horse might have EPM go ahead and give it medicine. It won't hurt the horse. Injecting a horse will make a horse with EPM more pronounced. Here's what he did when I crossed his feet. He was better with his left front, but about the same on his hind legs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJVmku6B9g
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-28 3:54 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| I've dealt with 4 EPM cases. From what you're describing this horse either has a neurological issue or EPM. I would do what you're doing, treat it as EPM. And vets in my area are using compounded meds as well, so thats good. But if he's had this for months, 5 doses isn't going to show any improvement, in fact as things start to die off it makes them feel like crap. I'd think it will take at least a full dosing time before you see improvement and then you should do at least one more full dose, maybe 2.
Be patient and don't ask him to do anything except eat and sleep. Good luck to you and your guy. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Have you had him tested for EPM yet? |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Get him on a Immune builder. Curost has a good one or Forefront Equine. I had a EPM horse and I used the herbal treatment from Silver Lining. But regardless on which route yout chose the Immune Builder is a big help. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | how is your boy doing? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Thanks for inquiring about him! There really isn't any change. He appears depressed, but is eating and drinking. I did think he seemed a little jumpy today (spooked at the water hose, etc)
I have not had him tested yet. I have contacted two vets and neither wanted to pursue testing since there is a response to the meds. To satisfy my own curiousity, I will try another vet on Monday.
I found this video online that I thought was helpful because it shows a normal vs. affected horse. https://youtu.be/0QDeskJRbQ4
I did not do the acupuncture points, as I am not familiar with those, but I would score his respone a 3-5 on all others. It's really strange to see! And, I would have never known without that video guide! No anal reflex, very little fly response, etc...
Edited by just4fun 2016-07-09 11:56 PM
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | chicks2 - 2016-01-30 9:00 AM I've dealt with 4 EPM cases. From what you're describing this horse either has a neurological issue or EPM. I would do what you're doing, treat it as EPM. And vets in my area are using compounded meds as well, so thats good. But if he's had this for months, 5 doses isn't going to show any improvement, in fact as things start to die off it makes them feel like crap. I'd think it will take at least a full dosing time before you see improvement and then you should do at least one more full dose, maybe 2. Be patient and don't ask him to do anything except eat and sleep. Good luck to you and your guy. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's good to know what to expect. It is a little discouraging to see him get worse instead of better.
Also want to thank kathyward01 for the messages offering advice! It's awesome to have a place to come for help and encouragement!
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-30 9:13 PM
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | just4fun - 2016-01-30 9:08 PM
chicks2 - 2016-01-30 9:00 AM I've dealt with 4 EPM cases. From what you're describing this horse either has a neurological issue or EPM. I would do what you're doing, treat it as EPM. And vets in my area are using compounded meds as well, so thats good. But if he's had this for months, 5 doses isn't going to show any improvement, in fact as things start to die off it makes them feel like crap. I'd think it will take at least a full dosing time before you see improvement and then you should do at least one more full dose, maybe 2. Be patient and don't ask him to do anything except eat and sleep. Good luck to you and your guy. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's good to know what to expect. It is a little discouraging to see him get worse instead of better.
Also want to thank kathyward01 for the messages offering advice! It's awesome to have a place to come for help and encouragement!
Kathy and Emma have really been through it. . . And she's been wonderful about posting updates and what's going on almost daily. Prayers for you and Geronimo |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc.). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
Edited by dianeguinn 2016-01-31 10:26 AM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | dianeguinn - 2016-01-31 9:23 AM I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc. ). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
very interesting take on that. I wouldn't doubt it at all. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 216
| Just checking on you. How is it going? Any improvement? How far along are you with treatments? I watched your video and that is exactly what Emma did. She is still neurologic but doing better. |
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SHOOT IT
Posts: 1170
Location: TEXAS | dianeguinn - 2016-01-31 10:23 AM I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc. ). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
Wow, great video. Thanks for sharing. |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Dianeguinn, I was not able to open that video on my computer, but I believe it is the same one that I posted above. It was very helpful! Wish I would have seen it a lot sooner!
Geronimo seems maybe a little more alert and less depressed today. I have an appointment Wednesday with a vet who will send blood to UC Davis. I mentioned the other lab on here and she felt UC Davis was the "gold standard." It is much more expensive, but she is willing to help us figure this out and that is worth a lot to me! She also wants to rule out back injury, which she felt was a very real possibility based on my description. I'm excited to maybe get some answers!
In the mean time, I'm off to the vet for the third time with my son's pet rat who is very ill... it's never ending!   
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Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota |
I had Matt tested through UC Davis and did the follow up testing and treatment with Dr. Ellison. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| my horse was neg with uc davis, if it is got 2 red top tubes of blood to doctor ellerison.
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas |
I never thought I'd ask this-----but how's the rat doing 
Seriously, sending good thoughts and prayers for Geronimo. . . |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| just4fun - 2016-01-30 9:06 PM
Thanks for inquiring about Geronimo! There really isn't any change. He appears depressed, but is eating and drinking. I did think he seemed a little jumpy today (spooked at the water hose, etc)
I have not had him tested yet. I have contacted two vets and neither wanted to pursue testing since there is a response to the meds. To satisfy my own curiousity, I will try another vet on Monday.
I found this video online that I thought was helpful because it shows a normal vs. affected horse. https://youtu.be/0QDeskJRbQ4I did not do the acupuncture points, as I am not familiar with those, but I would score his respone a 3-5 on all others. It's really strange to see! And, I would have never known without that video guide! No anal reflex, very little fly response, etc...
I'm glad a watched the video you posted! I watched his video on Ulcers too and then went home and tried them out. I have treated this gelding twice for EPM and within the last 30 days thought I was going to have too again. Did the neuro one first and he passed all of them, I little slow (3-4sec) to return the left hind foot back to normal but that might be the lasting effects from the epm. Did the Ulcer one and he wanted to kick me or bite me on every single one! Treating for ulcers now, going to start feeding for the hindgut too and give it 30-45 days and see if I see improvement. If I do, than its ulcers, if I don't another treatment for EPM it is! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | dianeguinn - 2016-01-31 10:23 AM
I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc. ). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
I agree completely with Diane. We are in SW Missouri and have treated 2 mares in a year and 1/2 with Pathogenes Origin. It has to be something like she suggested. It is everywhere and in the ground. It is so prevalent anymore. There are so many horses getting it you have to be very aware of your horse and even then by the time they are showing symptoms it can cause irreversible damage. We were lucky with our mares in that they have recovered and show no ill effects. I had a local vet try to talk me out of using Pathogenes. I got another vet to help me and was so thankful to him being open minded. My mare showed improvement in 3 days on Origin. I also treated her with their follow up of Levamisole. I also have friends that have used Pathogenes with great success. Edited by RunNbarrels 2016-02-02 11:47 AM
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| It is my experience that Dr Ellison and Pathogenes are the way to go. It is also my experience that too many vets are too quick to dismiss it.
Edited by bennie1 2016-02-02 12:00 PM
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Just home from the vet. She is sending off blood for EPM testing and we should have results the beginning of next week. If it doesn't indicate EPM, she wants me to take him to MU for a bone scan. She literally laughed at his awkward movement/gait. He did not respond to a flexion test though. And, she really didn't see obvious neuro signs. So, no answers yet.
I think he is feeling better! The wind may be a factor, but he had his head up and looked bright and alert!
As far as Ratniss, she had surgery a month ago and has had issues with recurrent abscesses. She has until tomorrow to get better or she has to have another surgery, which she is too thin and fragile to handle, so we are hoping for a big change today... In case anyone really wanted to know about the pet rat.  |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Awww prayers for your horse and the rat. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | just4fun - 2016-02-03 11:19 AM
Just home from the vet. She is sending off blood for EPM testing and we should have results the beginning of next week. If it doesn't indicate EPM, she wants me to take him to MU for a bone scan. She literally laughed at his awkward movement/gait. He did not respond to a flexion test though. And, she really didn't see obvious neuro signs. So, no answers yet.
I think he is feeling better! The wind may be a factor, but he had his head up and looked bright and alert!
As far as Ratniss, she had surgery a month ago and has had issues with recurrent abscesses. She has until tomorrow to get better or she has to have another surgery, which she is too thin and fragile to handle, so we are hoping for a big change today... In case anyone really wanted to know about the pet rat.
Go back and look, I seriously asked about Ratniss on my last post! I really hope she's better and doesn't have to have another surgery since she's fragile right now. And let us know what you find out about Geronimo. More prayers for both your furry kids  |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri |
 Honestly, I'm a little weirded out about caring for a rat! The things we do for our kids...
I'm anxious to see Gmo's test results! I'll update when they arrive! Thanks for the kinds words and encouragement!
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Well, test results showed no titer for S. neurona or N. hughesi.
We're back to square one.
And, we lost our little rat.
Edited by just4fun 2016-02-08 8:19 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Omgosh.I was just thinking about the rat!!!!.well hmmm. What do you think your next step will be? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Im the odd ball out I never thought EPM.. and think to many horses are treated for it when in fact they dont have it.. there is so many other reasons for things that happen.. a off gait could be anything with no nuero issues..
it could be his gait.. but did vet check stifles? |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Im sorry you lost your rat.. thats so sad.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | just4fun - 2016-02-08 8:18 PM Well, test results showed no titer for S. neurona or N. hughesi.
We're back to square one.
And, we lost our little rat.
Rest in peace little fella  |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | jake16 - 2016-02-08 8:21 PM Omgosh.I was just thinking about the rat!!!!.well hmmm. What do you think your next step will be?
She wants us to go to MU.
I'm thinking I should cut my losses. But, it's so...much...time... and heartache, and frustration, and that little bit of hope that he might make something... and what if...
I really don't know.
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-08 8:33 PM Im the odd ball out I never thought EPM.. and think to many horses are treated for it when in fact they dont have it.. there is so many other reasons for things that happen.. a off gait could be anything with no nuero issues..
it could be his gait.. but did vet check stifles? He was so off when he was there... she flexed him but there wasn't a difference. She did feel his stifles, but didn't mention anything. She asked me if he grew quickly, which he did... he's huge, only 16hh but really big boned and coarse, and still growing. Maybe OCD???
IDK...
Edited by just4fun 2016-02-08 8:43 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Ok, I read back through your post and have some questions. Which hock did they originally inject? You never mentioned if he had been chiro’d, but I’m guessing you’ve had that done? Did he have any soreness or was he out in his back or hips?
This last vet that you took him to, did she flex both hocks and stifles? Check his back, pelvis, and SI for soreness?
Another thought is the opposite front leg – I have a very tough little mare that had a torn suspensory and the only lameness that she showed was in the opposite hind leg; her hip would not stay in after multiple adjustments(4-5) and months of time off, and she couldn’t hold her lead..
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Member
Posts: 9
| Did you ever get results of a PSSM test? Sorry if the answer is somewhere in the thread, I didn't read through all of the posts. |
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-08 8:33 PM Im the odd ball out I never thought EPM.. and think to many horses are treated for it when in fact they dont have it.. there is so many other reasons for things that happen.. a off gait could be anything with no nuero issues..
it could be his gait.. but did vet check stifles?
I've only had one experience with EPM, so was just absorbing what everyone else had to say and learning from their experienes, (just saw thread, today) but since you mention it, my gelding was treated for EPM - spent 5 days in a stall at the vet for treatment, but I don't believe he ever had it.
He had uncoordination, severe body/back soreness, I couldn't brush him on his back sometimes without him almost falling to the ground. I wasn't always the one that rode him, but I was the one who competed on him. His problem was saddle fit.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| How is your horse doing? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Thanks for the inquiry! Nothing exciting... we finished the EPM meds for the month and now I'm just waiting to take him in for a lameness exam. The cost of MU was prohibitive, so we will have to switch vets. Yuck.
One more basketball tournament, then a couple of weeks before baseball... so I'll get him squeezed in soon! He's pretty content eating and being lazy for now :)
I will update when I know more. Thanks again for asking! 
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| where was the bloodwork sent my gelding was sent to uc davis neg//dr. ellerison pos. treated with oriquin started to get better within a week. my famly was over her sunday he was outside no blanket his coat is shiney. which two years ago he was not. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| just4fun - 2016-03-03 2:29 PM
Thanks for the inquiry! Nothing exciting... we finished the EPM meds for the month and now I'm just waiting to take him in for a lameness exam. The cost of MU was prohibitive, so we will have to switch vets. Yuck.
One more basketball tournament, then a couple of weeks before baseball... so I'll get him squeezed in soon! He's pretty content eating and being lazy for now :)
I will update when I know more. Thanks again for asking!
Thanks! I'm curious too see what his diagnosis is :) |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| just4fun - 2016-01-20 5:44 PM
Anniemae - 2016-01-20 5:38 PM just4fun - 2016-01-20 3:35 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM? Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
I will go ahead and test for PSSM. I thought about it before, but just put it off...
There are at least two types of PSSM. One is tested by hair or blood and the other is tested with a muscle biopsy. The mare I suspected to have it did NOT get better with exercise and I have never heard that being the case. However 24/7 turnout is recommended. A change in diet made a HUGH difference in her. She moved much like your horse, was extremely sensitive to brushing her back, was VERY resistant to giving her chin when you asked or demanded. Which makes sense because the big muscles in her back were tight and HURT! Pretty much all of that went away when I switched to a low starch/high fat feed program. Keep in mind this mare only actually tied up once, after I had had her for 5 years and it wasn't typical. One day she came in appearing lame in the front and the next day, when I was able to get her to the vet, she was goose stepping in the hind end (thought it was stringhalt!). Vet told me she was tying up , but even then her bloodwork did not show elevated SGOTs.
I would switch feeds. What harm could it do? I never tested that mare, the muscle biopsy lays them off for several months, I think. Why wait?
Good luck and sorry for the loss of Ratniss.
edited to add: unlike Diane, I think that PSSM is probably responsible for much of the vague lamenesses we are seeing. It is insinuated into the genetics of a large percentage of out QH and related gene pool. Much of the time it is not expressed so badly that it prevents the horse from being used and the genetics get passed on. I think it may even be tied to a higher quality performance horse much like HYPP is tied to extra muscle mass. I feed everything as if it were PSSM. They are all fat and healthy and I come to realize that the high grain diet we have been accustomed to feeding is really not "natural" at all.
Try it, what can you lose? I saw results fairly quickly, maybe a couple of weeks. Cheaper than a body scan!
Edited by rodeoveteran 2016-03-04 9:55 AM
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Well, we finally have a diagnosis. He has a neck injury (c1 & c2) and DJD in all joints of his right front leg. No more X-rays were taken as these findings were enough to conclude he is not safe to ride. Our options are euthanasia or turn out.
I have so many mixed feelings.
Thank you for those who offered advice and encouragement on this long journey.
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | just4fun - 2016-11-15 3:12 PM
Well, we finally have a diagnosis. He has a neck injury (c1 & c2) and DJD in all joints of his right front leg. No more X-rays were taken as these findings were enough to conclude he is not safe to ride. Our options are euthanasia or turn out.
I have so many mixed feelings.
Thank you for those who offered advice and encouragement on this long journey.
I'm sorry:( that's devastating news.Prayers for you |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Oh my. I am so very sorry. |
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 Saint Stacey
| just4fun - 2016-11-15 1:12 PM
Well, we finally have a diagnosis. He has a neck injury (c1 & c2) and DJD in all joints of his right front leg. No more X-rays were taken as these findings were enough to conclude he is not safe to ride. Our options are euthanasia or turn out.
I have so many mixed feelings.
Thank you for those who offered advice and encouragement on this long journey.
I'm so sorry. Those neck injuries suck. Especially once the start to turn neurological. I had Sidekick as a pasture pet for about 3 years. When they do finally reach that breaking point, it's not good. He would have good days and bad days. I kept him as long as he seemed happy. My daughter found him down in his stall one morning in huge amounts of pain. I have no answers. Just don't let anyone guilt you no matter what you decide. You WILL have well meaning people question you, or tell you that you should have done more. Don't listen to them. We all do the best we can. Hugs! |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | In am so so sorry, many prayers for you and him. . . . |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I am so very sorry. Praying for you. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So sad to hear this.... |
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Does this sound like EPM? Update p. 4