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 Mature beyond Years
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Location: North of the 49th Parallel | 
What's the normal payback you guys are paying for at barrel races down south? 70%? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| 80% |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | I don't think I've seen it at 70% many times around here... usually seems to be 75-80% from what I can remember. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | 80%.. I don't think I've seen a 70% that seems a little low. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Missouri | around here 75 - 80% I have not seen anything less than 75% |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | 80% most places. Min of 75%. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 550
| Some shows with big added money are 70% or 75%, but 80% is more typical. |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback.......... |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| To me it depends and you have to look deeper
Is there an office fee? Trailer/tie out fee? Etc etc. if I'm getting fee'd to death there better be 80% payback if not better. I won't hesitate to go to one I want to go to that is 70% if there's no additional or minimum additional fees, probably all evens out honestly. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM
I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback..........
58%???? what fees are you paying when you enter? |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 12:19 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback.......... 58%???? what fees are you paying when you enter?
$60 and $35 is going into the pot, $25 being held back. And I'm not planning on going, because there's no way I'd drive 3 hours for 58% payback. I was just curious what the normal is in other places. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM
I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback..........
Yikes! Where did they come up with that number? Is there a large amount of added money? Is this a benefit for someone or some charity? I've certainly never heard of a payback that low! |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 3:10 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 12:19 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback.......... 58%???? what fees are you paying when you enter? $60 and $35 is going into the pot, $25 being held back. And I'm not planning on going, because there's no way I'd drive 3 hours for 58% payback. I was just curious what the normal is in other places.
so they are paying 58% of the $35....? They are charging you $30+$14.70 of your $35 and then going to split that between the D's... I wouldn't go either, your paying in $45 dollars only getting back $20per/entry! For smaller races it's usually $30entry + $5 fee, the entire $30 goes in and then 80% is paid back. So that's $11 paid in and $24 back. Bigger races the office fee will be a little higher but the added money is greater and the number of entries is greater. |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 1:27 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 3:10 PM FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 12:19 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback.......... 58%???? what fees are you paying when you enter? $60 and $35 is going into the pot, $25 being held back. And I'm not planning on going, because there's no way I'd drive 3 hours for 58% payback. I was just curious what the normal is in other places. so they are paying 58% of the $35....? They are charging you $30+$14.70 of your $35 and then going to split that between the D's... I wouldn't go either, your paying in $45 dollars only getting back $20per/entry! For smaller races it's usually $30entry + $5 fee, the entire $30 goes in and then 80% is paid back. So that's $11 paid in and $24 back. Bigger races the office fee will be a little higher but the added money is greater and the number of entries is greater.
No 58% of the $60. All I got was a facebook message that just said they are putting $35 into the pot and keeping $25 back, and 58% of 60 works out to $35. Ridiculous either way. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 3:35 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 1:27 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 3:10 PM FlyingJT - 2016-02-03 12:19 PM bccanchaser16 - 2016-02-03 2:03 PM I ask because there's a largish barrel race that is having a 58% payback.......... 58%???? what fees are you paying when you enter? $60 and $35 is going into the pot, $25 being held back. And I'm not planning on going, because there's no way I'd drive 3 hours for 58% payback. I was just curious what the normal is in other places. so they are paying 58% of the $35....? They are charging you $30+$14.70 of your $35 and then going to split that between the D's... I wouldn't go either, your paying in $45 dollars only getting back $20per/entry! For smaller races it's usually $30entry + $5 fee, the entire $30 goes in and then 80% is paid back. So that's $11 paid in and $24 back. Bigger races the office fee will be a little higher but the added money is greater and the number of entries is greater. No 58% of the $60. All I got was a facebook message that just said they are putting $35 into the pot and keeping $25 back, and 58% of 60 works out to $35. Ridiculous either way.
oh ok, well I would figure it off of the $35 in the pot not the $60. They might be charging you 25 in fees but paying out 100% of the pot. That wouldn't sound to bad to me, especially if it has added money. The 25 is a little high for fees but if they pay 100% of the 35 I would do it. you should ask them what percentage of the pot is being paid back and if there is added money... |
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Location: In my own little world | What are the other fees on top of the entry fee? And is it sanctioned by any association? I do know that some races instead of charging all the misc fees add it all under one title of entry fee rather than segregate it out under office fee, etc. Then the percentage is actually larger but you can't figure it that way as that is not all entry fee if that makes sense.
We have a local deal where the actual entry fee is only $35 but contestants pay $8 for office and coll in fee so rather than realizing it is $35 they think the "entry fee" is $43. If the percent is figured out of the $43 total it is 43% taken out vs 30% coming out of the $35. And 30% is pretty common in the northwest unless they are NBHA races, then it is 20%. |
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 BHW Jr. Cougar of the Year
Posts: 14957
Location: Heart of Texas | Wow! That's insane. It's always 80% around here. I've only seen 75% at benifit races. Which is perfectly fine with me. |
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Location: In my own little world | T-Zip - 2016-02-03 2:51 PM Wow! That's insane. It's always 80% around here. I've only seen 75% at benifit races. Which is perfectly fine with me.
I also think the percentages are larger in the north because it is nothing for you all in the south to get 150 people to a jackpot anytime of the week and we think we have a huge one if we get 50! Our expenses are not any less so therefore the % has to go up to pay for it. Typical arena rental here can be $500. plus tractor etc. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | Depending on what you mean by "South", I'm in Florida and I have not been to a show that paid more than 70% in a long time (local shows) I wish we still had some that were 80% payback.
Once in a while there are charity shows that do 50% payback, but generally if my daughter goes to one of those, she does not take her good horse.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Our association here is a minimum of 80%. Added money must be 100% and office or admin fees must be declared as separate. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I am curious which one it is, and have messaged the op.
I do believe ours are different up here as the total 60 as a rule of thumb will include all fees such as sanctioning, arena fees, admin fees, and timer fees.
The things that wouldn't be included are stalling, timed onlies, exhibitions. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-02-03 8:36 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeomom3 - 2016-02-03 8:34 PM
What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider.
Timer rental.
One association brought this in years ago to help cover the costs of their timers as they had to supply 10-20 province wide.
Other associations rent the timers from people who own their own. |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | I wish more barrel racers would figure out what the total payout is on their fees. Add the office fees, payout%, tie out... whatever tack on fee isn't paid out, then calculate what % of your money that you'll get back. There have been some nice big local jackpots where the total return on investment is only around 50%. No thanks, I'll stay home.
I do produce jackpots, too- so I know the time, expense, PITA of it all. I just think you should be able to run for at least 65-70% of your total fees. I think the BBR has a pretty fair PO schedule, and considers added money. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| cheryl makofka - 2016-02-03 9:07 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-03 8:34 PM What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider. Timer rental. One association brought this in years ago to help cover the costs of their timers as they had to supply 10-20 province wide. Other associations rent the timers from people who own their own.
Thanks, all our associations have their own. How many do your races draw up north? A weekend local jackpot, no added money, $35 entry fee, usually has 150 or more. I guess we have enough entries to cover all the costs. There are usually a few hours of exhibitions at $4/5 each that brings in a lot of $$. WrapN3, a local producer who always has added money will draw over 300-they have a $5 office charge per entry. There would be a mutiny down here if associations started tacking on extra fees. |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | ND3canAddict - 2016-02-04 8:10 AM I wish more barrel racers would figure out what the total payout is on their fees. Add the office fees, payout%, tie out... whatever tack on fee isn't paid out, then calculate what % of your money that you'll get back. There have been some nice big local jackpots where the total return on investment is only around 50%. No thanks, I'll stay home.
I do produce jackpots, too- so I know the time, expense, PITA of it all. I just think you should be able to run for at least 65-70% of your total fees. I think the BBR has a pretty fair PO schedule, and considers added money. The BBR schedule is great....but I don't like it for higher fees races. If you're putting more than $100 up per run - it should payback better than 75%.
One of the races in Fort Worth is following their schedule - $250 EACH run and only 75% payback. That seems rather extreme to me.
Edited by MS2011 2016-02-04 8:35 AM
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | rodeomom3 - 2016-02-04 8:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2016-02-03 9:07 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-03 8:34 PM What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider. Timer rental. One association brought this in years ago to help cover the costs of their timers as they had to supply 10-20 province wide. Other associations rent the timers from people who own their own.
I wish the WrapN3 would come to north Texas a bit. Love the format of those races. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| MS2011 - 2016-02-04 8:34 AM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-04 8:26 AM cheryl makofka - 2016-02-03 9:07 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-03 8:34 PM What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider. Timer rental. One association brought this in years ago to help cover the costs of their timers as they had to supply 10-20 province wide. Other associations rent the timers from people who own their own.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-02-04 9:22 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeomom3 - 2016-02-04 8:26 AM
cheryl makofka - 2016-02-03 9:07 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-03 8:34 PM What is a timer fee??? We don't have those down here. Only fees we may pay in addition to entry is an office fee. Small local races, 125+ entries, don't have any fees, larger shows may have $20 office fee/rider. Timer rental. One association brought this in years ago to help cover the costs of their timers as they had to supply 10-20 province wide. Other associations rent the timers from people who own their own.
Depending on weather and right now we are inside 24/7 we can get 20-150 on a weekend. It also depends on the arena too. |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | You have always got to look deeper than the "stated payback" when you figure the true percentage of return. A hefty office charge can take the true payback down by double digit percentage in a blink so that only a lot of added money can make the fees palatable. |
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Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | SC Wrangler - 2016-02-04 9:42 AM You have always got to look deeper than the "stated payback" when you figure the true percentage of return. A hefty office charge can take the true payback down by double digit percentage in a blink so that only a lot of added money can make the fees palatable.
Exactly the point I was trying to make! |
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Expert
Posts: 1531
Location: Oklahoma | 75 or 80, plus office fees( even when the producer owns the facility) |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | To the OP - are there other fees? If not, this isn't too bad.
If I pay $35 entry @ 80% plus $10 office charge my total fees are $45. $28 goes in the jackpot and $17 to the producer. They are ultimately holding back 37% of my money. They are paying out 63% of my money.
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| 3canstorun - 2016-02-04 11:12 AM
Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
We ran into the same thing.... Told us he didn't care for barrel racers-his words not mine. Tried charging us an outrages amount, I bugged him for a months and negotiated a really nice deal with him but it took a lot of work and even then he wasn't willing to do anything for us. Wouldn't work the arena before events, no tractor available unless we paid $100/hour, no lights, no stalls, nothing to help. We paid the fee to use the arena and then did everything ourselves. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 11:34 AM 3canstorun - 2016-02-04 11:12 AM Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
We ran into the same thing.... Told us he didn't care for barrel racers-his words not mine. Tried charging us an outrages amount, I bugged him for a months and negotiated a really nice deal with him but it took a lot of work and even then he wasn't willing to do anything for us. Wouldn't work the arena before events, no tractor available unless we paid $100/hour, no lights, no stalls, nothing to help. We paid the fee to use the arena and then did everything ourselves.
Sorry, but his place his rules. Buy your own place and host events if it miffs you so much.
Charging different amounts to disciplines at the same facility is nothing new, barrel racers usually pay the least out of anyone - usually half as much as AQHA, NRHA, etc. |
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 Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150
Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL | Most are 70, some are 75, very very occasionally we have an 80%.
I don't generally go if I feel like I'm being nickled and dimed by fees - an office fee, a grounds fee, etc. I'll usually pay one if it's under $10 or so.
And, this may just be me being ornery, but I will place my butt firmly on my shoulders and stay home if they charge me a tie out fee for a one day jackpot. Call it absolutely anything else please. Something about paying a fee to tie my horses to my trailer that I have bought and paid for once already just chaps my behind. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| linds - 2016-02-04 11:46 AM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 11:34 AM 3canstorun - 2016-02-04 11:12 AM Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
We ran into the same thing.... Told us he didn't care for barrel racers-his words not mine. Tried charging us an outrages amount, I bugged him for a months and negotiated a really nice deal with him but it took a lot of work and even then he wasn't willing to do anything for us. Wouldn't work the arena before events, no tractor available unless we paid $100/hour, no lights, no stalls, nothing to help. We paid the fee to use the arena and then did everything ourselves.
Charging different amounts to disciplines at the same facility is nothing new, barrel racers usually pay the least out of anyone - usually half as much as AQHA, NRHA, etc.
Wow! bad day?? little cranky aren't you.... |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Glad i came across this..i was planning on going but now im going to read the small print.....M....p.s.there is a place up here that charges a haul in fee but only during certain events....its 9 dollars a horse.... |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | I don't usually look at % of payback.
I just make sure it's equal payback, only way it's equitable.
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | linds - 2016-02-04 12:46 PM FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 11:34 AM 3canstorun - 2016-02-04 11:12 AM Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
We ran into the same thing.... Told us he didn't care for barrel racers-his words not mine. Tried charging us an outrages amount, I bugged him for a months and negotiated a really nice deal with him but it took a lot of work and even then he wasn't willing to do anything for us. Wouldn't work the arena before events, no tractor available unless we paid $100/hour, no lights, no stalls, nothing to help. We paid the fee to use the arena and then did everything ourselves.
Charging different amounts to disciplines at the same facility is nothing new, barrel racers usually pay the least out of anyone - usually half as much as AQHA, NRHA, etc.
However, in this case, the barrel racers pay more, and the person who owns the facilities has barrel horses. He has the last laugh. Never said I didn't like it - just pointed out facts.
And, I never said I as a barrel racer went and participated either. And, I didn't say it was wrong either. |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Well so far they haven't posted the pay out publicly..its been sent in pm....they have been asked if it will be made public and no answer. ..and we all know what hush hush and payout do to a bunch of crazy ass barrel racers...lol...m |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| 1DSoon - 2016-02-04 2:49 PM I don't usually look at % of payback.
I just make sure it's equal payback, only way it's equitable.
Wouldn't expect anything different from you..... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 333
| If there's no other fees, then that is probably the same percent as your 80% shows.
Say they charge you $25 to run and $10 office fee..that's 57% of your total fee...both just worded in different ways. Now add $3.00 nbha fee in there and it's even less payout. |
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 Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | mruggles - 2016-02-04 2:53 PM Well so far they haven't posted the pay out publicly..its been sent in pm....they have been asked if it will be made public and no answer. ..and we all know what hush hush and payout do to a bunch of crazy ass barrel racers...lol...m
Until last summer i trusted producers because we are typically very lucky up here. Now lesson learned. And the nice thing about this event. If enough girls ask the questions and dont like their answers maybe the producer will consider some payout changes. I really dislike that they wont go public with their payout. It just makes it feel shady when really it shouldnt be. Thank goodness for other events that same weekend :) |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | 3canstorun - 2016-02-04 11:12 AM Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
I have been to the same facilities for barrel races and team ropings with my husband. I have paid the same stall fee for one horse, one night, that he paid for 3 horses and two nights. Same barn.
We also paid the same hookup fee. Again, one night vs two.
I will say I have never in my life heard of a tie out fee?! Geez, the hubby wouldn't go anywhere lol.
My my favorite rodeo association down here pays back 79% of the barrel racers' entries. And they treat us right.
Most places are 75-80, 70 if it's a benefit.
Now, you have to watch the local team ropings, lol. We were planning on going to a benefit rodeo Saturday night...Right at 30% payback, NOT happening lol. |
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Location: In my own little world | You girls up in Alberta have had a couple of shady events this past year! .I'd be darn skeptical too!
Let me start by saying a decent race in my part of the world is about 50 (if you approve it with one or 2 barrel racing association because point chasers don't like to miss a race!) And thank goodness for those point chasers because they help the producers make it possible to keep producing. Unless you anty up about $1000 added money and then if it is a good facility and run well you can get 100 entries (but very doubtful in the winter)
But for gits and shiggles let's play this whole scenario out on both ends and have a little fun with it. Producing is not easy and can be tricky trying to please everyone as we all know. Trouble is we do not always know what they are paying out in expenses. But that is where I have to do my homework (like the OP) and decide on my own if I can afford to go for what they will hold out or if I should stay home. I don't want to ruin it for any producer as I am a producer myself and far be it from me to tell anyone what they should charge, but I can choose to stay home and not support them. Or even if I think it is high I may feel I need to go to gets some runs in on a futurity colt, etc. And it is really based on the general area where you live and because all areas are different. If we want to ride and jackpot in the winter I have one facility to choose from and rent charges cost me $750 for the day. I also have to pay for the use of the PA system ( I did buy my own but I don't think it will be big enough for this arena), I have to pay a parking lot clean up fee ($500 because there is always the person or 10 who figures they can clean the manure out of the trailer anywhere they want), So I'm into them for $750 even if it gets canceled due to bad roads. And if it's a go, then I'm into it for $1330 before anyone even gets there. When you arrive the arena is worked and ready to go. But every time they start that tractor up after that, it costs me $35. So, if I have 50 entries that means there are a minimum of 10 rakes plus 1 -2 during the time only's and a large rake prior to the actual jackpot. So add another $455. If I want to be half way guaranteed over 50 entries then I'm going to have to come up with at least $500 added to make people want to come out in winter. Then I have to pay my barrel setters but I can generally get someone to volunteer to run the gate, so 3 barrel setters @ $10/hr will cost me around $90 to $120. My expenses are now at roughly $1900. So with 50 entries I get about 90-115 time only's. ($5 each or 3/$12. so I can figure roughly $400 coming in. I charge a $10 office fee per person. Now I have $900 (if all 50 are seperate entries, not 10 riding multiple horses because that gives me less money toward my expenses. Somehow I have to come up with another $1000 to break even. Even at a $40 entry fee and taking 30% of that I am still short because that only brings in $600. Still short $400 due to the darn parking lot fee. So I throw in a $10 tie out fee per horse to cover it. Now I have just maybe broke even but I'm out my time, which is worth something to me (but many people don't see it that way because they have never undertaken the endeavor of hosting one). And I also have the investment of my electric eyes and constant fresh batteries, computer and computer program, printer and ink, computer checks, taking the risk of a bad check (unless it is cash only) yada yada. Oh ya, can't forget that mandatory liability insurance I have to purchase (and by the way is pretty important to cover your hind end) so I'm probably back to a loss due to the $75 insurance premium. And this is with me doing all the secretary work, and announcing. And if I bring my own horse(s) to run I do have a couple people who will gladly cover for me during the race but I also feel obligated to pay them something, buy their lunch or do something. Boy my husband will be impressed with my "loss" when I get home because his 1st question is always either "how much money did you win" or "how much money did the race make you today". follwed by "what's for supper?"
Now I look at that same race from purely a contestant point of view: Crap I have to pay a $40 entry fee, add on $20 in extra fees so I'm into this puppy for $60. Well guess If I go I'll just take the colt because he needs runs and $110 is just too much for me this weekend because I just sent off $500 in futurity payments. So IF she gets 50 entries that puts $1400 in the pot with no money added. I have a 50 mile drive to get there so that's with $60 total office plus fuel of $25, I'll pack my pbj sandwich with me so I don't have to buy lunch because I will have $85 min in it and it will only pay $155 to win the 1D. Man this colt better work good! But I can throw in old faithful as long as I'm going because he always pulls a check in the 2D. What the heck as long as I'm going it will just be an entry fee of $40 plus another tie out fee since the office fee is per person. That tie out fee stinks and I hate them. I swore I would never enter a race with a tie out fee but dang they are everywhere now. That guy that owns that barn is trying to make his payment on us barrel racers and the team ropers get to do what they darn well please at that place. They don't have to pay these stupid extra fees. 33% and they are done with it...grr. So 2 horses will cost me extra $$ in fees. And If Brownie does win the 2D that's $140 and I have to be realistic about my colt so I'll estimate a check in the 3 D of $90 if he clocks well and could win 2nd. I darn sure hope he clocks better than the 3D tho.
Oh boy, I can maybe win $200 on a $135 investment, but that means I won't run Brownie with a $11 flair strip plus a dose of OxyPlus or I'll be into it for extra $30. I could ask Ethel to go with me since I have an extra hole but dang it she always insists on staying until the last horse runs and I don't want to be there all flipping day! Maybe I should just stay home this weekend. Dang producers like to rip ya off anyway they can and make a living off of us. But I have that big run coming up in a month so I better just get in gear and enter up. Now be honest...we have all either said or heard this scenario. I admit it, I've said it myself lol!!
Now if I was in Texas or Okla, and a reputation as a good producer, I could have had triple that show up to my race as a producer and put a few bucks in my pocket at the end of the night. In the north, not so much. But my rule of thumb is I always have an estimate figured in my head of what any barrel racing or team roping should pay. And it doesn't bother me to question it either. But it also doesn't bother me as a producer if a contestant questions my payoff or asks any questions. After all, it is their money you are working with.
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Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | ropenrun - 2016-02-05 2:06 AM You girls up in Alberta have had a couple of shady events this past year! .I'd be darn skeptical too!
Let me start by saying a decent race in my part of the world is about 50 (if you approve it with one or 2 barrel racing association because point chasers don't like to miss a race!) And thank goodness for those point chasers because they help the producers make it possible to keep producing. Unless you anty up about $1000 added money and then if it is a good facility and run well you can get 100 entries (but very doubtful in the winter)
But for gits and shiggles let's play this whole scenario out on both ends and have a little fun with it. Producing is not easy and can be tricky trying to please everyone as we all know. Trouble is we do not always know what they are paying out in expenses. But that is where I have to do my homework (like the OP) and decide on my own if I can afford to go for what they will hold out or if I should stay home. I don't want to ruin it for any producer as I am a producer myself and far be it from me to tell anyone what they should charge, but I can choose to stay home and not support them. Or even if I think it is high I may feel I need to go to gets some runs in on a futurity colt, etc. And it is really based on the general area where you live and because all areas are different. If we want to ride and jackpot in the winter I have one facility to choose from and rent charges cost me $750 for the day. I also have to pay for the use of the PA system ( I did buy my own but I don't think it will be big enough for this arena), I have to pay a parking lot clean up fee ($500 because there is always the person or 10 who figures they can clean the manure out of the trailer anywhere they want), So I'm into them for $750 even if it gets canceled due to bad roads. And if it's a go, then I'm into it for $1330 before anyone even gets there. When you arrive the arena is worked and ready to go. But every time they start that tractor up after that, it costs me $35. So, if I have 50 entries that means there are a minimum of 10 rakes plus 1 -2 during the time only's and a large rake prior to the actual jackpot. So add another $455. If I want to be half way guaranteed over 50 entries then I'm going to have to come up with at least $500 added to make people want to come out in winter. Then I have to pay my barrel setters but I can generally get someone to volunteer to run the gate, so 3 barrel setters @ $10/hr will cost me around $90 to $120. My expenses are now at roughly $1900. So with 50 entries I get about 90-115 time only's. ($5 each or 3/$12. so I can figure roughly $400 coming in. I charge a $10 office fee per person. Now I have $900 (if all 50 are seperate entries, not 10 riding multiple horses because that gives me less money toward my expenses. Somehow I have to come up with another $1000 to break even. Even at a $40 entry fee and taking 30% of that I am still short because that only brings in $600. Still short $400 due to the darn parking lot fee. So I throw in a $10 tie out fee per horse to cover it. Now I have just maybe broke even but I'm out my time, which is worth something to me (but many people don't see it that way because they have never undertaken the endeavor of hosting one). And I also have the investment of my electric eyes and constant fresh batteries, computer and computer program, printer and ink, computer checks, taking the risk of a bad check (unless it is cash only) yada yada. Oh ya, can't forget that mandatory liability insurance I have to purchase (and by the way is pretty important to cover your hind end) so I'm probably back to a loss due to the $75 insurance premium. And this is with me doing all the secretary work, and announcing. And if I bring my own horse(s) to run I do have a couple people who will gladly cover for me during the race but I also feel obligated to pay them something, buy their lunch or do something. Boy my husband will be impressed with my "loss" when I get home because his 1st question is always either "how much money did you win" or "how much money did the race make you today". follwed by "what's for supper?"
Now I look at that same race from purely a contestant point of view: Crap I have to pay a $40 entry fee, add on $20 in extra fees so I'm into this puppy for $60. Well guess If I go I'll just take the colt because he needs runs and $110 is just too much for me this weekend because I just sent off $500 in futurity payments. So IF she gets 50 entries that puts $1400 in the pot with no money added. I have a 50 mile drive to get there so that's with $60 total office plus fuel of $25, I'll pack my pbj sandwich with me so I don't have to buy lunch because I will have $85 min in it and it will only pay $155 to win the 1D. Man this colt better work good! But I can throw in old faithful as long as I'm going because he always pulls a check in the 2D. What the heck as long as I'm going it will just be an entry fee of $40 plus another tie out fee since the office fee is per person. That tie out fee stinks and I hate them. I swore I would never enter a race with a tie out fee but dang they are everywhere now. That guy that owns that barn is trying to make his payment on us barrel racers and the team ropers get to do what they darn well please at that place. They don't have to pay these stupid extra fees. 33% and they are done with it...grr. So 2 horses will cost me extra $$ in fees. And If Brownie does win the 2D that's $140 and I have to be realistic about my colt so I'll estimate a check in the 3 D of $90 if he clocks well and could win 2nd. I darn sure hope he clocks better than the 3D tho.
Oh boy, I can maybe win $200 on a $135 investment, but that means I won't run Brownie with a $11 flair strip plus a dose of OxyPlus or I'll be into it for extra $30. I could ask Ethel to go with me since I have an extra hole but dang it she always insists on staying until the last horse runs and I don't want to be there all flipping day! Maybe I should just stay home this weekend. Dang producers like to rip ya off anyway they can and make a living off of us. But I have that big run coming up in a month so I better just get in gear and enter up. Now be honest...we have all either said or heard this scenario. I admit it, I've said it myself lol!!
Now if I was in Texas or Okla, and a reputation as a good producer, I could have had triple that show up to my race as a producer and put a few bucks in my pocket at the end of the night. In the north, not so much. But my rule of thumb is I always have an estimate figured in my head of what any barrel racing or team roping should pay. And it doesn't bother me to question it either. But it also doesn't bother me as a producer if a contestant questions my payoff or asks any questions. After all, it is their money you are working with.
i love your explanation! Im one who know what its like to host and be a producer. I prefer these days to help out hosts and not be on that end of the spectrum. Such a thankless job!! Kudos to everyone who is a host!
Full disclosure on entry fees and payouts to me equals honesty and allows girls to make an informed decision on whether to attend or not. The nondisclosure now makes me wary of any event and makes the decision to attend or not attend quite easy.
I wil lbe hard pressed to speak publically bashing any producer or event. I will make my decision to attend or not and go quietly on with my life. Bashing producers gets us all nowhere.
this has been a good thread! Thanks Jessie for starting it.
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | 3canstorun - 2016-02-03 12:12 PM
Want to stir the pot a little more - what about when the owner of a facility charges barrel racers tie out fees - per horse - and stall fees more. And doesn't charge cutters tie out fees and his stall fees are less.
Oh, he doesn't charge cutters a timer fee either. But does charge a timer fee to barrel racers.
He is not alone.........in excessive fees................. |
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Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Lately it is all about fees...........fee for this fee for that...........heck around here it is mostly 70% payback. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 3:58 PM 1DSoon - 2016-02-04 2:49 PM I don't usually look at % of payback.
I just make sure it's equal payback, only way it's equitable.
Wouldn't expect anything different from you.....
yep |
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Payout/payback