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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
 
| I have a mare that has too much bend in her head & neck .. She will bend her whole body around my leg perfectly at a walk & usually a trot , but at the lope she wants to just throw me her head & neck & not bend through her rib cage .. I'm just riding her on an o ring now .. Any suggestions on helping this ? |
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Posts: 1857
 
| Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 6:27 PM
Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders.
I am using my inside heel, I will try picking by hand up , keeping her moving forward .. I can straighten her a bit with my outside rein , but I am trying go just use the inside , just like I will on a barrel turn in a run.. But as soon as you go to one hand she just wants to bend in half ..
Edited by Fancy Lass 2016-02-04 6:39 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Do counter circles in your bigger circle just have enough inside reign that you see the corner of her eye try squares, try Connie combs stability loser bit then do more counter circles trotting and counter cantering |
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 Expert
Posts: 1261
| I have a mare that is like gumby lol trainer suggested I switch her to a lady bug hacks more and it helped a ton. I have also seen it work for other overly bendy horses. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| ride her in a hackamore or l & w bits sells a thick mouth mullen mouth that he sells to add wadell. dont do anybending and do some spins like a reiner. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Is the Connie combs stabilizer bit something to try ? I'll buy it , just hoping it works for her . This is a very nice 1 d mare but i need to get her using her hind end more & less noodle neck & dropping the shoulder & swinging the hind end . She has a very light mouth . I have a smooth mouth Jr. Cow horse bit .. But she's still pretty noodle neck in that too
Edited by Fancy Lass 2016-02-04 7:23 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| This mare gets a little ignorant to stop after a run.. So I don't think I'd feel comfortable running in a hack . Could be worth a try though .. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 6:37 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 6:27 PM
Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders.
I am using my inside heel, I will try picking by hand up , keeping her moving forward .. I can straighten her a bit with my outside rein , but I am trying go just use the inside , just like I will on a barrel turn in a run.. But as soon as you go to one hand she just wants to bend in half ..
You could try a Mullen mouth. Just use the inside rein. Ask her to move out and then use your heel first and then pick straight up on the inside rein, gradually role your wrist to increase how much of her nose you want if she gives to much(which is usually to avoid contact) pick up on both reins at the same time and give her a quick snatch(she'll straighten her nose out and lift her head up) then let go of the outside rein and gradually add pressure again, don't stop pushing her into your hands. Without seeing what she is doing, I'm imagining she's stiff through her body, over exaggerating with her nose, causing her to drop her shoulder and hips to the outside.
Counter arcs are always good too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 7:42 PM
Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 6:37 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 6:27 PM
Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders.
I am using my inside heel, I will try picking by hand up , keeping her moving forward .. I can straighten her a bit with my outside rein , but I am trying go just use the inside , just like I will on a barrel turn in a run.. But as soon as you go to one hand she just wants to bend in half ..
You could try a Mullen mouth. Just use the inside rein. Ask her to move out and then use your heel first and then pick straight up on the inside rein, gradually role your wrist to increase how much of her nose you want if she gives to much (which is usually to avoid contact ) pick up on both reins at the same time and give her a quick snatch (she'll straighten her nose out and lift her head up ) then let go of the outside rein and gradually add pressure again, don't stop pushing her into your hands. Without seeing what she is doing, I'm imagining she's stiff through her body, over exaggerating with her nose, causing her to drop her shoulder and hips to the outside.
Counter arcs are always good too.
This makes perfect sense .. It's just such a hard thing to correct :( |
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Posts: 204
Location: Texas | Hackamore! |
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Curve Ball
Posts: 2256
Location: Pelham, TN | Shallow Creek makes the SC 75 6" with the mullen mouthpiece. The less moving parts in the mouth the less bend you have. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 7:52 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 7:42 PM
Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 6:37 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 6:27 PM
Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders.
I am using my inside heel, I will try picking by hand up , keeping her moving forward .. I can straighten her a bit with my outside rein , but I am trying go just use the inside , just like I will on a barrel turn in a run.. But as soon as you go to one hand she just wants to bend in half ..
You could try a Mullen mouth. Just use the inside rein. Ask her to move out and then use your heel first and then pick straight up on the inside rein, gradually role your wrist to increase how much of her nose you want if she gives to much (which is usually to avoid contact ) pick up on both reins at the same time and give her a quick snatch (she'll straighten her nose out and lift her head up ) then let go of the outside rein and gradually add pressure again, don't stop pushing her into your hands. Without seeing what she is doing, I'm imagining she's stiff through her body, over exaggerating with her nose, causing her to drop her shoulder and hips to the outside.
Counter arcs are always good too.
This makes perfect sense .. It's just such a hard thing to correct : (
Usually if you can keep their shoulders up and rib cage soft the hip will stay engaged underneath them. Counter cantering can help strengthen her hocks and loin and will also make her stay engaged. It requires them to stay up in their body which will keep her off the bit(not leaning on it like she is now) and driving with her hind end. I'd do lots of drills moving her shoulders in and out, yielding her hind end, and roll backs on the fence so she has to move her shoulders around and Use her hind end for impulsion.
Have you ever had her stifles checked for arthritis, she might be avoiding using her hind end because of pain somewhere. |
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Posts: 268
| I had a bendy gelding and a hack helped with this. I ran him in a long shank Jim Warner. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| My little gelding can be like this, for us it was a matter of me figuring out the right leg/hand ratio and working drills to really keep his feet moving. If he losses momentum he folds in half and comes back over the top of a barrel. Barrel Horse News just shared on Facebook a drill I worked the other night that really helped work out some of our kinks - casting the mold is the title
ETA this little gelding is Broke with a capital B. Love it but he can be touchy and much less forgiving than my other gelding. For example if I drop my hand is a turn and pull back, he stops. Wicked turner, do not pull back, it's like an E brake!
Edited by OhMax 2016-02-05 10:52 AM
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | For a noodly horse, I like a bit that either is a mullen mouthpiece or ported mullen....no breaks in the mouthpiece. Sometimes I also get along better with a hack on these type horses. Anything with alot of gag makes them more bendy and doesn't keep their outside shoulder and hip up under them for me. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 7:27 PM
This mare gets a little ignorant to stop after a run.. So I don't think I'd feel comfortable running in a hack . Could be worth a try though ..
Why? Hacks have more whoa than most bits. |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | FlyingJT - 2016-02-05 7:58 AM
Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 7:52 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 7:42 PM
Fancy Lass - 2016-02-04 6:37 PM
FlyingJT - 2016-02-04 6:27 PM
Stick your inside heel in her, push your hand forward and up picking up her shoulders.
I am using my inside heel, I will try picking by hand up , keeping her moving forward .. I can straighten her a bit with my outside rein , but I am trying go just use the inside , just like I will on a barrel turn in a run.. But as soon as you go to one hand she just wants to bend in half ..
You could try a Mullen mouth. Just use the inside rein. Ask her to move out and then use your heel first and then pick straight up on the inside rein, gradually role your wrist to increase how much of her nose you want if she gives to much (which is usually to avoid contact ) pick up on both reins at the same time and give her a quick snatch (she'll straighten her nose out and lift her head up ) then let go of the outside rein and gradually add pressure again, don't stop pushing her into your hands. Without seeing what she is doing, I'm imagining she's stiff through her body, over exaggerating with her nose, causing her to drop her shoulder and hips to the outside.
Counter arcs are always good too.
This makes perfect sense .. It's just such a hard thing to correct : (
Usually if you can keep their shoulders up and rib cage soft the hip will stay engaged underneath them. Counter cantering can help strengthen her hocks and loin and will also make her stay engaged. It requires them to stay up in their body which will keep her off the bit (not leaning on it like she is now ) and driving with her hind end. I'd do lots of drills moving her shoulders in and out, yielding her hind end, and roll backs on the fence so she has to move her shoulders around and Use her hind end for impulsion.
Have you ever had her stifles checked for arthritis, she might be avoiding using her hind end because of pain somewhere.
^^^^This. If you haven't had her to the vet for a good lameness check on the back end, I would do that. Usually if they're dropping their shoulders and slinging the butt, it's either hock or stifle soreness (or both). |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I ride my over bendy mare in a hack that had a shank similar to a side pull, I'll have to get a pic but it works great, I also do lots of square work with her when I do slow work on barrels. When I ride her in a bit I try not to use one with to much lift or "bend" and I use more body and leg work then pulling on her face to do anything. Bend is very important in the body but not necessarily in the face/head.
I like the Jim Warner hacks as well for an over bendy horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| She's been checked out for lameness of any kind .. She sound . It's a lack of knowing how to use herself correctly.. She wasn't started right & has been an on going project for me for over 3 years now |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Fancy Lass - 2016-02-05 2:36 PM
She's been checked out for lameness of any kind .. She sound . It's a lack of knowing how to use herself correctly.. She wasn't started right & has been an on going project for me for over 3 years now
Exactly what I went through with my mare, the girl who started her didn't put a good basic foundation on her, she was more of less "barrel broke" rubber necking (gumby) around the barrels and in general. Super flexible and supple though so getting her to bend and flex was the easy part. To me it's like going backwards with one, usually you have to teach them to bend, flex and break in the pole, these rubber necky horses need to go back to being a little more stiff and it's all in how you ride them. Research square work exercises since a bit is just a quick fix. BUT, I do find that hacks do help keep an over bending horse a little more straight and square since the pressure is on the nose and not in their mouth.
Edit: I also use very long reins or split reins so I don't get in her mouth at all
just my opinion coming from someone who just had to fix this, it took me 6 months of slow work.
Edited by RnRJack 2016-02-05 3:02 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I've also dropped my inside reign and used my outside rein and do kind of a square instead of a circle mix it up with counter circles if you have some bits with a shank try it remember to use both reigns not just the inside, the outside controls the hip get the hip working for you too |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I've also dropped my inside reign and used my outside rein and do kind of a square instead of a circle mix it up with counter circles if you have some bits with a shank try it remember to use both reigns not just the inside, the outside controls the hip get the hip working for you too |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Thanks for the suggestions guys .. I know it's more of a body control issue , not a bit issue . I took her to a very small race tonight & the first few lope throughs she want to do it wrong .. Back eve old way ! Dripping the front end & swinging the hindquarters .. After about 2-3 times through she started turning it correctly .. It just seems like such a losing battle when they've gotten away with it for 4 years .. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | after exausting may options, we went with a millen mouth piece. Totally stood her up. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Counter circle her around the barrels when she feels to bendy when you feel her hip come up under her do it the normal way and go to the next one |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Thanks guys ! I've put several posts on this horse before .. I'm thinking it's just about time go throw in the towel on this one .. After years of aggravation , I think I'm just done with the horse . I've tried so hard to fix her & it just doesn't ever get better in public until you've gone through correcting her at least 3 times .. It's ashame she was started so incorrectly bc she could have been even nicer than she is doing it wrong .. But with this horse I feel like the damage has already been done . It doesn't help that she is psycho anxious all the time .. She's been treated for every kind of under , nothing helps . She just has a very fragile mind & she can get dangerous if put in a situation to do so . She's bendy in the neck , but I don't feel it's why she does what she does on the pattern . I can lope in the arena & she is already thinking of beating me to the punch & dropping her head/ front end & swinging her butt .. Then after about 2-3 times through of telling her " hey , we are going to do this right " then she will lope a beautiful first barrel .. Her 1 st & 3 rd are her worst barrels .. But the first has been my biggest challenge . Sorry to vent guys ! I'm just at my wits end ! I know it's hard to break old habits but I didn't know it'd be this hard & frustrating ! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | For an overly bendy horse I like a mullen mouth. The connie combs stabilizer is good one. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Put a tight browband on him. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Have you tried totally taking her off barrels until you have her stiffened up? If my horse isn't going right in dry work i don't even look at barrels. The counter circling around a barrel helps a lot how much inside reign do you use? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | Rather have one like this than opposite. Use your feet more. You can straightn a horse up with them if do it correctly. Support your feet with your hands.Quit pulling. Body position can change a horse as much as any equipment. Your body position. Lead a horse through the turn not pull them through.Go to next position. Target spot. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Do you have any videos Ronnie on how you work a bendy horse? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| I try to use a lot of leg & less reign .. Bc she is light mouthed .. She's perfect off the pattern . Can turn correctly all day long .. But the minute you put her on "the pattern " had wants to resort back to her old ways.. Especially away from home .. It's just the first way she was taught so now she wants to keep turning like that... She has a shorter stiff body so she stiffens through the ribcage pretty quickly when on a more stressful situation . I feel like she's come soo far but just can't kick the habit on the pattern ! I've also been working on loping extended & when I sit , shorten her stride to turn .. I've been doing that off of the pattern ..
Edited by Fancy Lass 2016-02-07 12:27 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 830
Location: Paradise , tx | I have a mare that is very, very bendy. As several others have suggusted, I put her in a mullen mourth, with a fairly thick mouth piece and it has really worked good for her. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Fancy Lass - 2016-02-07 12:24 PM
I try to use a lot of leg & less reign .. Bc she is light mouthed .. She's perfect off the pattern . Can turn correctly all day long .. But the minute you put her on "the pattern " had wants to resort back to her old ways.. Especially away from home .. It's just the first way she was taught so now she wants to keep turning like that... She has a shorter stiff body so she stiffens through the ribcage pretty quickly when on a more stressful situation . I feel like she's come soo far but just can't kick the habit on the pattern ! I've also been working on loping extended & when I sit , shorten her stride to turn .. I've been doing that off of the pattern ..
Have tried retraining her for a roll back style turn, tear drop. If she's naturally stiff, try using it to your advantage. |
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 Schnoodle Lover
Posts: 2987
Location: **Cactus Country down in South Texas*** | I like the straight bit for an overly bended horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| FlyingJT - 2016-02-07 1:08 PM
Fancy Lass - 2016-02-07 12:24 PM
I try to use a lot of leg & less reign .. Bc she is light mouthed .. She's perfect off the pattern . Can turn correctly all day long .. But the minute you put her on "the pattern " had wants to resort back to her old ways.. Especially away from home .. It's just the first way she was taught so now she wants to keep turning like that... She has a shorter stiff body so she stiffens through the ribcage pretty quickly when on a more stressful situation . I feel like she's come soo far but just can't kick the habit on the pattern ! I've also been working on loping extended & when I sit , shorten her stride to turn .. I've been doing that off of the pattern ..
Have tried retraining her for a roll back style turn, tear drop. If she's naturally stiff, try using it to your advantage.
I have tried this! It seems to work ok .. But she still drops in me on the first barrel :( |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | seems like you have more issues then a Bit fix...
you might have someone else work with her and see what happens .. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I don't think that a teardrop or roll back style would be any different for an over bendy horse, in fact that will be even harder for her to do if she can't stay square now. It would be much easier to show you then explain it but there's a few drills you can do to keep straighten her up, one would be to go completely past the barrel and as soon as her hip gets 1-2 feet past it do a roll back and continue in a straight line to the other point of your turn, when the hip passes the barrel again 1-2 feet after (giving yourself just enough room so that when you roll back you'll be facing the next barrel) turn and pivot again, almost like a perfect triangle, not using your hands or reins to turn her but your legs and body. You can hold your hands up a little higher to keep her head and shoulder up when you do this. Make sure you're really twisting your hips.
Another drill I do is similar but when I'm walking or trotting to my barrel where my rate point is I take the same hand that I would be using to help guide my horse with the reins around the barrel and Instead put it on the back of my saddle using the opposite hand I would have my reins held high as to hold my horses head up and I would continue to walk or trot with one hand on reins and one hand on back of saddle all the while twisting my hips but keeping her head straight. You repeate at every barrel using opposite hand to hold reins up and turning hand on back of saddle, even turn the barrel a few times using your body and holding the head up.
Lastly like others have said, counter arc away from your barrel at either your rate point or just past it, each horse is different but I like to do it where I would normally sit and start my turn. Make sure your counters are perfect , front feet moving at all times, don't stop into a roll back make sure they are going somewhere and bending that opposite side at the same time.
There's no reason you need to take her off barrels, but all these drills will help if you only do slow work.
Hope some of that helps. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Thanks for the drills !! I know it's more than a bit issue for sure .. I'm not even looking to switch bits now .. It's definitely more of. Body / mind issue more than bit . Even though my post was about bits lol I've been trying to keep her rib cage soft. She can turn that barrel rounded when she's focused & paying attention. She has trouble staying square in those shoulders for sure .. She wants to drop them any chance she gets , especially in a pressured situation. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | yes you did say bit suggestions.. months back wrapsnap had posted on a thread to you several lengthy responses.... did any of that work
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-02-08 10:24 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Bibliafarm - 2016-02-08 10:23 AM
yes you did say bit suggestions.. months back wrapsnap had posted on a thread to you several lengthy responses.... did any of that work
Nothing seems to work with this horse.. At home it does .. She'll do anything slow all day long .. But add any speed or nerves & she resorts right back to her old turning ways .. I think it's fixable , but I think it'd take a year or more to fix .. I was hoping I could fix it within 3-4 months over the winter but don't think that's going to happen . |
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Veteran
Posts: 285
| If she only does it at a race, just exhibition her and go slow. Slow work and teach her the correct way, and going slow might just help with her nerves. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| pepsi97 - 2016-02-09 1:15 AM
If she only does it at a race, just exhibition her and go slow. Slow work and teach her the correct way, and going slow might just help with her nerves.
This is what I have been doing . It takes at least 2 exh to get her to stay correct . But she will lope .. So she isn't too crazy . Guess I just need to stick with it , until she learns to do it correctly the first time . |
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Overly bendy horse .. Bit suggestions