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Regular
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| I have a 8 year old mare, who just recently just kind of started going off her feed. (grain only). I haven't changed a thing. I will add that last year around April she developed ulcers and I treated her for them for 30 days and re-scoped and they were gone. I have maintenanced the hell out of this horse for the ulcers (ulcer supps morning/night, that also reaches the hind gut, with feed, 1/2 doses of omeprazole the day before, day of, and day after a race), I completely changed her feed ration last year, no molasses, her grain is alfalfa based and doesn't contain anything that would upset her stomach, plus beet pulp and rice bran. She gets alfalfa, and Timothy hay.
I started legging her up beginning of January and went to a race and everything was fine. Then about two days before my next race she just stopped eating her grain (keep in mind this horse is a pig and devours her grain normally). But I left it in her feed bucket and it was gone the next morning, gave her grain to her again and she ate most of it but at a slower than normal pace.
She's kept in a stall but also has a 12x16 run attached to it. She's in this from about November until May. (Property sucks, too much water). So it's nothing she isn't used to.
I'm not sure what my next step should be? Blood panel? Rescope for ulcers? I checked the areas on a horse where they would be sensitive if they have ulcers and she was fine (previously when she had them she was not ok with me touching the areas). I just have no idea. She has the same 2 horse neighbors. Absolutely nothing has changed. Same feed, same routine, same everything. And she just stands at the door of her run staring outside. I would love to let her out but I physically can't. The horses would destroy my fields and I like them to have grass come spring/summer. I guess I'm just out of ideas. I don't know what could be wrong, if anything. Or if she's just bored. Any insight would be really helpful. |
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| Please look up the threads on feed contamination and ionophore poisoning. |
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-02-08 7:56 AM
Please look up the threads on feed contamination and ionophore poisoning.
Thanks, I just kind of looked it up, I didn't read every single thread but I feel like it doesn't really explain what Ionophore is. Could you explain? I feed 2 of my 3 horses the same exact feed and the other is totally fine. The alfalfa based grain I feed is by LMF feeds. (Popular here in the NW)
I'm not ruling something like that out, but if it was something like that I feel like it would affect both horses equally if they're getting the same hay. Maybe not though :) |
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| I meant grain not hay, in my response :-) |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
 
Location: Florida.. | has a dentist been by lately. |
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Expert
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| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 8:12 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-02-08 7:56 AM
Please look up the threads on feed contamination and ionophore poisoning.
Thanks, I just kind of looked it up, I didn't read every single thread but I feel like it doesn't really explain what Ionophore is. Could you explain? I feed 2 of my 3 horses the same exact feed and the other is totally fine. The alfalfa based grain I feed is by LMF feeds. (Popular here in the NW )
I'm not ruling something like that out, but if it was something like that I feel like it would affect both horses equally if they're getting the same hay. Maybe not though : )
Sure, a lot of commercial feeds are produced in Mills that also produce medicated cattle feeds. These medications are FATAL to horses even in very very small amounts. What happens is a mill will run the cattle feed, then do a supposed clean out process, then run horse feed. In recent years some of this cattle medication has found its way into horse feeds. The symptoms you report are indicative of contamination. What feed were you using? Some manufacturers have " Safe mills" that only produce horse or cattle products or use separate lines. Purina and a few others are SAFE. Nutrena and some others use the same facility as I described above. Sometimes parts of the country where they are produced have safe mills. The Nutrena in TX might be fine, but CA not etc.
I would suggest the horse be switched to a different feed. Whole grains are best in my opinion. Reason being they don't have any artificial vitamins, minerals etc. But anyway, let us know the company you currently use and we can tell you if its safe. |
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The Advice Guru
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| Ionophore is a class of medication mixed into cattle feed. Horses cannot consume ionophore products as it results in death. Some horses can handle trace amounts, and some cannot. This could be why the other two are doing okay and not her.
You would need to call the brand of feed you buy and see if they are ionophore free.
In my experience when my horses start going off of their feed it is either two things or a combination. The beginning of ulcers, most horses will slow eating down or stop all together as they relate the eating their grain with a belly ache. The other is depression. |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | you cant let them out for a hour or so..? she may be depressed.. i still would check teeth.. |
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Regular
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| I feed LMF grain (gentle balance) - and have for about 5 years. Www.lmffeeds.com - maybe I'll call them and see. It's a horse feed only but I guess that might not mean anything.
She's up to date on teeth. My fields are a lake. I live in western WA, we get rain almost 8 months out of the year. Hence why we built runs so they werent stuck inside 24/7. It's not something she isn't used to, like I said. We have to do it every year. Doesn't mean that she isn't depressed but I feel like there's a more underlying problem.
It has crossed my mind that her ulcers could be coming back but i feel like I maintenance well enough they shouldn't. That being said, it doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't come back at all.
Thanks for all the insight.
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | oh ok.. even those its a horse feed doesnt mean they dont make cattle feed and if made in same facility.. there is a long thread on here about it.. |
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| I'll look into it a bit more. Thank you :) |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 10:45 AM
I feed LMF grain (gentle balance) - and have for about 5 years. Www.lmffeeds.com - maybe I'll call them and see. It's a horse feed only but I guess that might not mean anything.
She's up to date on teeth. My fields are a lake. I live in western WA, we get rain almost 8 months out of the year. Hence why we built runs so they werent stuck inside 24/7. It's not something she isn't used to, like I said. We have to do it every year. Doesn't mean that she isn't depressed but I feel like there's a more underlying problem.
It has crossed my mind that her ulcers could be coming back but i feel like I maintenance well enough they shouldn't. That being said, it doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't come back at all.
Thanks for all the insight.
The products you use, may not be working for her, or quit working for her.
Also the products could be causing vitamin and mineral deficiencies as omeprazole should not be given long term. Even natural herbs have side effects.
For ulcers, I try to reduce the issues, and only medicate as needed. |
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| cheryl makofka - 2016-02-08 9:30 AM
GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 10:45 AM
I feed LMF grain (gentle balance) - and have for about 5 years. Www.lmffeeds.com - maybe I'll call them and see. It's a horse feed only but I guess that might not mean anything.
She's up to date on teeth. My fields are a lake. I live in western WA, we get rain almost 8 months out of the year. Hence why we built runs so they werent stuck inside 24/7. It's not something she isn't used to, like I said. We have to do it every year. Doesn't mean that she isn't depressed but I feel like there's a more underlying problem.
It has crossed my mind that her ulcers could be coming back but i feel like I maintenance well enough they shouldn't. That being said, it doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't come back at all.
Thanks for all the insight.
The products you use, may not be working for her, or quit working for her.
Also the products could be causing vitamin and mineral deficiencies as omeprazole should not be given long term. Even natural herbs have side effects.
For ulcers, I try to reduce the issues, and only medicate as needed.
she does not get omeprazole every day, only "as needed". Her last race was in November aside from two weekends ago - so she had a 2 month break from receiving any omeprazole. She continued on gut health Xtra which is an aloe based ulcer supplement that also gets into the hind gut.
Like I said I treated and cured the ulcers almost a full year ago. She doesn't look bad, like she's developing them again. She has a shiny coat, healthy feet, a great weight.
What is a recommended feed/supplement that you use for your ulcer prone horses?
She gets quite a bit of food (grain & hay) to keep up with her metabolism. She's a big 15.3h athletic built horse. |
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| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 10:45 AM
I feed LMF grain (gentle balance) - and have for about 5 years. Www.lmffeeds.com - maybe I'll call them and see. It's a horse feed only but I guess that might not mean anything.
She's up to date on teeth. My fields are a lake. I live in western WA, we get rain almost 8 months out of the year. Hence why we built runs so they werent stuck inside 24/7. It's not something she isn't used to, like I said. We have to do it every year. Doesn't mean that she isn't depressed but I feel like there's a more underlying problem.
It has crossed my mind that her ulcers could be coming back but i feel like I maintenance well enough they shouldn't. That being said, it doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't come back at all.
Thanks for all the insight.
I was told LMF is a clean mill . They do not process any medicated feeds. I switched to it again after having an issue with TC.
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| cutnrunqhmt - 2016-02-08 11:51 AM
GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 10:45 AM
I feed LMF grain (gentle balance) - and have for about 5 years. Www.lmffeeds.com - maybe I'll call them and see. It's a horse feed only but I guess that might not mean anything.
She's up to date on teeth. My fields are a lake. I live in western WA, we get rain almost 8 months out of the year. Hence why we built runs so they werent stuck inside 24/7. It's not something she isn't used to, like I said. We have to do it every year. Doesn't mean that she isn't depressed but I feel like there's a more underlying problem.
It has crossed my mind that her ulcers could be coming back but i feel like I maintenance well enough they shouldn't. That being said, it doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't come back at all.
Thanks for all the insight.
I was told LMF is a clean mill . They do not process any medicated feeds. I switched to it again after having an issue with TC.
Good to know, thank you! |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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| Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories. |
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| rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 11:56 AM
Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories.
Thanks I'll look into it. Just to clarify, take her off grain and alfalfa or just the grain and feed alfalfa and a concentrated feed? Thanks :) |
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 Neat Freak
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Location: Wonderful Wyoming | GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 1:02 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 11:56 AM Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories. Thanks I'll look into it. Just to clarify, take her off grain and alfalfa or just the grain and feed alfalfa and a concentrated feed? Thanks : )
alfalfa can be good for ulcers I thought. Something about the calcium content. |
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| wyoming barrel racer - 2016-02-08 12:06 PM
GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 1:02 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 11:56 AM Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories. Thanks I'll look into it. Just to clarify, take her off grain and alfalfa or just the grain and feed alfalfa and a concentrated feed? Thanks : )
That's also what I heard which is why I've been feeding it |
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boon
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| How do you treat for depression? My mare also is prone to ulcers. I treated her in December and again in January. I don't think January was necessary as she was rated a 1 at the time of her scope but the vet said depending on how sensitive she is the 1 can still bother her. She got a little better with her feed after the 2nd treatment but has since resorted back to slow eating, sometimes eating everything and sometimes not. We're going back to the vet tomorrow for teeth but I don't think its that. I think its depression. So I was wondering how you deal with it? |
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Expert
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| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 12:12 PM
wyoming barrel racer - 2016-02-08 12:06 PM
GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 1:02 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 11:56 AM Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories. Thanks I'll look into it. Just to clarify, take her off grain and alfalfa or just the grain and feed alfalfa and a concentrated feed? Thanks : )
That's also what I heard which is why I've been feeding it
Alfalfa is perfect for Ulcer horses. THe high calcium content buffers the stomach. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-02-08 3:01 PM GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 12:12 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-02-08 12:06 PM GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 1:02 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 11:56 AM Take her off grain, alfalfa and a concentrated product like Progressive or Renew Gold-with both you only feed 1cup am and pm. They don't need grain to get their nutrition and calories. Thanks I'll look into it. Just to clarify, take her off grain and alfalfa or just the grain and feed alfalfa and a concentrated feed? Thanks : ) That's also what I heard which is why I've been feeding it Alfalfa is perfect for Ulcer horses. THe high calcium content buffers the stomach.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-02-08 5:18 PM
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| Dawn Marie - 2016-02-08 12:27 PM
How do you treat for depression? My mare also is prone to ulcers. I treated her in December and again in January. I don't think January was necessary as she was rated a 1 at the time of her scope but the vet said depending on how sensitive she is the 1 can still bother her. She got a little better with her feed after the 2nd treatment but has since resorted back to slow eating, sometimes eating everything and sometimes not. We're going back to the vet tomorrow for teeth but I don't think its that. I think its depression. So I was wondering how you deal with it?
That's a really good question and would love to hear a response to that. Is your mare stalled also or on turnout?
I've been thinking about the depression thing all day, so since mine is stalled I was thinking of taking her out to hand graze for 15-30 minutes every day... See If that starts helping. But depression would seem almost impossible to treat in a horse lol! |
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Shelter Dog Lover
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| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 5:06 PM Dawn Marie - 2016-02-08 12:27 PM How do you treat for depression? My mare also is prone to ulcers. I treated her in December and again in January. I don't think January was necessary as she was rated a 1 at the time of her scope but the vet said depending on how sensitive she is the 1 can still bother her. She got a little better with her feed after the 2nd treatment but has since resorted back to slow eating, sometimes eating everything and sometimes not. We're going back to the vet tomorrow for teeth but I don't think its that. I think its depression. So I was wondering how you deal with it? That's a really good question and would love to hear a response to that. Is your mare stalled also or on turnout? I've been thinking about the depression thing all day, so since mine is stalled I was thinking of taking her out to hand graze for 15-30 minutes every day... See If that starts helping. But depression would seem almost impossible to treat in a horse lol!
Change their environment. When mine was stalled due to injury I hand grazed him 3 or 4 times a day with the other horses. |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | rodeomom3 - 2016-02-08 6:19 PM GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 5:06 PM Dawn Marie - 2016-02-08 12:27 PM How do you treat for depression? My mare also is prone to ulcers. I treated her in December and again in January. I don't think January was necessary as she was rated a 1 at the time of her scope but the vet said depending on how sensitive she is the 1 can still bother her. She got a little better with her feed after the 2nd treatment but has since resorted back to slow eating, sometimes eating everything and sometimes not. We're going back to the vet tomorrow for teeth but I don't think its that. I think its depression. So I was wondering how you deal with it? That's a really good question and would love to hear a response to that. Is your mare stalled also or on turnout? I've been thinking about the depression thing all day, so since mine is stalled I was thinking of taking her out to hand graze for 15-30 minutes every day... See If that starts helping. But depression would seem almost impossible to treat in a horse lol!
ditto also get something for them to play with.. jolly ball, milk jugs hanging.. they are naturally grazers so stalled up all day youd get depressed to.. |
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| Yes well if it was something I could help they wouldn't be in stalls at all. She gets out and ridden 3-4 times a week depending on my schedule. She has 3 different toys in her stall. But I will start hand grazing. |
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Expert
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| Get some papaya juice and give it to her. 60ccs twice a day. Mine was off her feed. Gave her the Papaya juice and she ate everything. Give it about 15 to 30 minutes before feeding. |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I have had two that beet pulp (even the non molasses kind) would cause them to go off their feed. One horse scoped clear but we suspected colon ulcers and he was classic ulcer case. The other tested positive for colon ulcers and tested positive on acupuncture points for gastric. There's something about beet pulp that some horses don't tolerate well. |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
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Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Oh, and MSM and some joint supplements do the same thing.
Papaya does help. Gut Proof herbs works even better. |
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Regular
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| Fairweather - 2016-02-08 5:30 PM
Oh, and MSM and some joint supplements do the same thing.
Papaya does help. Gut Proof herbs works even better.
I have owned her for a total of 4 going on 5 years with a year that I sold her and ended up buying her back (2 years ago). She's been getting beet pulp all the time she's been with me and doesn't seem to mind it as long as there is something mixed in.
But now that you mention joint supplements I did start her in January on smartpaks, a joint supplement and a probiotic/prebiotic. I'm wondering if those are just getting in her system and causing probl ms?? |
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Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | GiveYourAll - 2016-02-08 8:12 PM Fairweather - 2016-02-08 5:30 PM Oh, and MSM and some joint supplements do the same thing.
Papaya does help. Gut Proof herbs works even better. I have owned her for a total of 4 going on 5 years with a year that I sold her and ended up buying her back (2 years ago ). She's been getting beet pulp all the time she's been with me and doesn't seem to mind it as long as there is something mixed in. But now that you mention joint supplements I did start her in January on smartpaks, a joint supplement and a probiotic/prebiotic. I'm wondering if those are just getting in her system and causing probl ms??
It could be. The one horse it took me a year to get figured out and he was finally eating well. I made the mistake of putting him on MSM and he started getting slow on his feed within a couple of days. I had a hard time getting him back on his feed even when I pulled him off the MSM. That's when I found out about the herbs.
When I've taken a joint supplement that has MSM in it, even with food, I have gotten THE absolute worst case of heart burn. I took it in the morning and had heartburn every time I ate for the next couple of days - that's with Nexium and anything else I could get my hands on. I've tried taking it a couple times and had the same results. |
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| Maybe I'll look into the herbs. Thanks! I had been feeding pure msm in the past without (what seemed like) any issues and I just thought she might need more so I got something with glucosamine msm chondroitin HA etc in it. Horses are one of a kind aren't they....  |
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Expert
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| GiveYourAll - 2016-02-09 6:48 AM
Maybe I'll look into the herbs. Thanks! I had been feeding pure msm in the past without (what seemed like ) any issues and I just thought she might need more so I got something with glucosamine msm chondroitin HA etc in it. Horses are one of a kind aren't they....
Be careful of Oral HA products, they can also burn the GI tract. Products like Lubrisyn are good because they are absorbed before they even get to the stomach. Oxygen makes a product called Fluidity that is the ONLY BUFFERED HA oral product on the market to protect the GI track. I have not used either but am really considering the Fluidity |
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Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | I am not sure if you responded but has she been looked at by a dentist |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I use Fluidity and love it. Also use the oxy max. But I would start her on the Gut Integrity and Oxy Ulcer to get her digestive issues taken care of. My mare had stopped eating. i have the oxy ulcer on its way,but I gave her 60 ccs of Papaya juice and she started to eating like crazy. So you might try the Papaya. |
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Expert
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| readytorodeo - 2016-02-09 9:02 AM
I use Fluidity and love it. Also use the oxy max. But I would start her on the Gut Integrity and Oxy Ulcer to get her digestive issues taken care of. My mare had stopped eating. i have the oxy ulcer on its way,but I gave her 60 ccs of Papaya juice and she started to eating like crazy. So you might try the Papaya.
Smoothrun Gastro and Forerunner paste/Gut also has papaya in it and I have used them in the past with great results. |
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Member
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| I have a horse that does the EXACT same thing. Had him scoped and found a few ulcers but none that looked bad enough to make him completely stop eating. Tried everything and he would eat for a couple days and then just turn his nose up. Finally dove in and did the HHA (horse hair analysis) by Dr. deapalo and got interesting results. He had me start him on his own personalized supplement and a gut stomach that he made called excel. He explained that the excel coats all the way from the esophagus to the hind gut and is very natural. He is also recommend alfalfa hay and renew gold grain. So far so good! Its nice to hear someone else has the same problem!! Mine got so bad that I had to quit riding him cause he was getting so skinny and put thousands and thousands into vet bills with no results at all!! So I highly recommend the HHA! wish I did it first thing instead of going to the vet!! Good Luck and know youre not alone!!!! |
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| SpeedyDandme - 2016-02-09 10:03 AM
I have a horse that does the EXACT same thing. Had him scoped and found a few ulcers but none that looked bad enough to make him completely stop eating. Tried everything and he would eat for a couple days and then just turn his nose up. Finally dove in and did the HHA (horse hair analysis) by Dr. deapalo and got interesting results. He had me start him on his own personalized supplement and a gut stomach that he made called excel. He explained that the excel coats all the way from the esophagus to the hind gut and is very natural. He is also recommend alfalfa hay and renew gold grain. So far so good! Its nice to hear someone else has the same problem!! Mine got so bad that I had to quit riding him cause he was getting so skinny and put thousands and thousands into vet bills with no results at all!! So I highly recommend the HHA! wish I did it first thing instead of going to the vet!! Good Luck and know youre not alone!!!!
Interesting. Maybe I'll look into that. I am definitely going to look into switching her to the renew gold. I'm also looking at other options in terms of ulcer supps. Maybe I'll do the hha to figure this horse out. Glad I'm not alone, thank you for the insight! |
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| Just had this happen with my 2yo, it was worms. Get a fecal done on her. |
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| Thanks, will look into that next - I got a blood panel done on her yesterday and am going to see where that leads me first. If I don't get anywhere with that a fecal was next. :-) |
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Expert
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Location: Willows, CA | This is a classic ulcer situation. Stalled, empty stomach part of the time and possible teeth issues add up to this. Check for worms, have teeth done, add a slow feeder system if they have to be kept in a stall so that they have around the clock access to some forage. We all have to work with the situation that we have, but this situation is where we typically see ulcers, just as you did last year after the horse was kept in like this. Treating for ulcers the days that you haul and run is simply putting a bandaid on the situation. If, in fact, the issue is ulcers, there is no option but to run the full course to cure them, and change the daily management of the horse to prevent them from starting all over again. |
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| winwillows - 2016-02-11 9:46 AM
This is a classic ulcer situation. Stalled, empty stomach part of the time and possible teeth issues add up to this. Check for worms, have teeth done, add a slow feeder system if they have to be kept in a stall so that they have around the clock access to some forage. We all have to work with the situation that we have, but this situation is where we typically see ulcers, just as you did last year after the horse was kept in like this. Treating for ulcers the days that you haul and run is simply putting a bandaid on the situation. If, in fact, the issue is ulcers, there is no option but to run the full course to cure them, and change the daily management of the horse to prevent them from starting all over again.
She has a slow feeder, food 24/7, she is stalled but she also has a run 24/7. It's the best I can do. She has already been cured and rescoped clean for ulcers. Teeth have been done. She was wormed in December. And gets wormed every 3 months on a rotating wormer. Spring she gets a power pac. She was treated for the ulcers and is kept on a daily maintenance and my vet said to give her 1/2 dose of omeprazole before the day of the race, day of, and day after. Her ulcers have not came back. I have done absolutely everything for this horse in terms of the ulcers. I'm very well educated on them. I do the omeprazole just as an extra added protection. It must be working so I'm not going to change that specifically. I also give her some soaked grain before I just ride to soak up any stomach acid that could possibly cause any sort of discomfort for her.
My next step is a fecal. After that, I'm out of ideas. |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | By rescoped for ulcers do you mean recently, or last summer when you treated. Some alfalfa rather than soaked grain might be a better source buffer to stomach acid when you run. Current clinical studies seem to show little advantage to on and off med treatments on run days. You As to her teeth, how long ago was that. There may be issues with feed or hay contamination, but I usually see mouth or ulcer problem being the cause when this happens. |
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Horse going off feed