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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Can someone tell me what their vets protocol is on this?
I've had one tell me power pack 5 days the. 5 days later use quest plus. And another tell me to do the quest plus 10 days later????
Edited by burnamillion 2016-02-09 5:25 PM
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7617
  
Location: Dubach, LA | I wouldn't do it. Running a power pac through one is tough. Quest Plus shouldn't be given to one that's not in great shape anyway. I'd think you'd run a good chance killing the horse with the worms. Just my opinion. |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| If i do a Power Pack, I will follow 10 days with Quest plus. I did a new horse which not underweight by any means but was in a pen not pasture. She crapped out worms for 3-4 days. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Thanks... So u did the 5 day power pack and 10 days later u did the quest plus? |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| Yes ...5 days then 10 later the Quest plus.....and you can buy the big tube of Safeguard cattle wormer to make it cheaper.....same stuff. Doing the power pack gets the encysted strongyles....that's the whole point of it. Fenbendazole has been proven very safe in studies. |
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 Night Watchman
Posts: 5516
Location: Central Montana | The whole issue with Quest is you HAVE to dose according to directions....do not overdose.....do not give any more than directed by the weight of horse......do not give to young horses/babies |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | I do the powerpac followed by EquiMax or Zimmectrim Gold in 3 days. Two months later, I use Quest Plus. I only PP mine once a year- they are out on pasture and for the most part, we don't have bad worm troubles. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| sandygirl1 - 2016-02-09 8:10 PM
Yes ...5 days then 10 later the Quest plus.....and you can buy the big tube of Safeguard cattle wormer to make it cheaper.....same stuff. Doing the power pack gets the encysted strongyles....that's the whole point of it. Fenbendazole has been proven very safe in studies.
To clarify this .....
Quest is a moxidectin product.
Safegaurd is fenbendazole.
Panacur (the power pak) is also fenbendazole.
DO NOT mix up moxidectin and fenbendazole - they work very differently in the equine body - please dose accordingly. |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| yes that is correct. Panacur and Safeguard are both Fenbendazole products. Quest is Moxidectin. Sorry, should have clarified...Thanks Lindseylou!
Edited by sandygirl1 2016-02-10 12:44 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| So u use pancure power pack then 10 days later quest plus or safe guard? |
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| Somewhat related to this topic and I feel like its a informational experience to share:
I dewormed all 3 of my horses with Panacur at the beginning of December. (14 yo, 3 yo, and 1 yo). The middle of january rolls around and the now 2 yo goes off of feed and starts acting STRANGE - colicky would be the only way to describe it. I take her in to the clinic and get her tubed, etc, and watched until she passes poop; asked the vet to run a fecal and check for ulcers. The results come back as FULL of worms, and with ulcers (ugh!!!), so as per the vet's recommendation we double dose with Panacur, and then recheck a fecal in 2 weeks. 2 weeks go by and the new fecal shows that the Panacur didn't do crap. So the next line of defensive was ivermectin. I decided to use plain Zimmectrin (my other 2 horses are getting the same treatments also just in case). 2 weeks later another fecal shows that the Zimmectrin worked and shes clean as a whistle.
Just throwing that out there for anyone curious on effectiveness of wormers... |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| Power pack is a double dose of Fenbendazole (panacur or Safeguard) for 5 days...the 10 days later Quest plus.
To understand the theory, you need to understand the life cycle of the small strongyles worms.... If you google it, there likely will be good diagrams.
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| POWER PACKING
First you have to understand that Safeguard and Panacur are the same thing and mfg'd in the same plant.
Fenbendazole DOES NOT kill any worms .. it temporarily paralyzes the worms and that is the reason you see worms in your horses poop vs other wormers that kill the worms. It is only directed at the 3 groups of large and small round worms ... nothing else ..
Fenbendazole is the oldest commercial horse wormer and so most worms are immune to the standard dose. The power pack tubes have twice the meds vs the cattle tubes. In 5 days you have given 10x the normal dose with marketing gurus telling you what you want to hear as to it being affective .....
As several have stated ... fecal exams in a matter of days will show the same infestations as before ...
Good marketing has made them millionaires selling a product that really has no place in a horses worming routine due to the overdosing, lack of being effective and costs.
IF you use a cattle wormer trying to save money to power pack ... you have to give 20 doses because the meds in it are at normal strength vs the power pack syringes have 2x the meds = 2 normal doses
Quest contains moxidectin and Quest Plus is a harsher form with a catalyst added to it. .. Plus was taken off the market for a couple of years due to it causing intestinal and digestive problems with some organs reacting to it. I will not even consider using the Plus product due to the misinformation or lack of information provided by mfgr's of horse products using human meds that do not meet human requirements ... so give it to horses ..
Ivermectin is a reliable product if you use a little more than you think your horse weighs rather than accidently using less which is how immunity in worms builds up ... the ones that did not die are more tolerant and their eggs may contain a new strain that are immune to ivermectin.
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For ALL wormers
Always allow for what they may or did spit out. I like to do my worming prior to feeding the horse and most times I will give half of the dose and let their mouth get coated and then give the 2nd half ... spitting it out is less likely. Then I feed them which loads up the digestive system and gives the meds more time to be absorbed ...
As stated before ... Fenbendazole only puts a worm to sleep and you can see them in the poop which is a good marketing tool. The worm killing wormers .. the worms are m/l digested and the blood and body skins are pooped out in a darker brown to black poop that is darker than normal.
If you watch your horses poop closely you will notice as worm colony grows the darker the poop due to worm fecal matter and blood from the sore they create inside the horses digestive tract.
if you give one of the killer wormers ... poop greens//yellows up very quickly showing very little worm activity.
ingesting and Hatching to adult stage of most worms is 6 weeks ....
THINK SIMPLE ... IF YOUR HORSE IS A 1000 LBS .. JUST GIVE THE WHOLE 1250 LB TUBE ... THIS MAKES EVERYTHING SIMPLE AND NO FEAR OF OVERDOSING ..
ORIGINAL POWER PACKING 30 DAY PROCEDURE
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FIVE DAYS OF SAFEGUARD OR PANACUR AT DOUBLE THE MEDS NORM .. 10X A NORMAL DOSE
AT 15 DAYS .. GIVE A DOSE OF IVERMECTIN ... KILLS EVERYTHING BUT TAPEWORMS ... 7-10 DAYS YOU WILL SEE HORSES WITH BUSHY TAIL BUTTS OR RUBBING TAILS ... THIS IS A SLOW KILL ON ROUND WORMS AND THEY ARE FIGHTING TO STAY IN THE HORSE MAKING HIS ANUS ITCH ... THIS WORMING CLEANS OUT THE WORMS WITHOUT MASSIVE OVER KILLS CAUSING PROBLEMS AND MAYBE COLIC ..
(A HORSE WILL ALSO RUB ITS TAIL IF IT IS WORMY ... DUE TO ROUND WORMS LAYING EGGS AROUND HIS ANUS AREA AND THE ACTIVITY MAKES A HORSE'S BUTT ITCH)
AT 30 DAYS GIVE A DOSE OF PLAIN QUEST ... WHICH IS HARSHER THAN IVERMECTIN AND KILLS TAPEWORMS AND CYSTS ... SINCE IVERMECTIN MADE THE MAIN SLOW KILL OF WORMS ... THIS WORMER WILL KILL ANY NEWLY HATCHED OR DESTROY REMAINING EGGS OR WORMS THAT HAVE SOME IMMUNITY TO IVERMECTIN ... AND EXPECT A MILD CASE OF DIARRHEA WITH QUEST ..
OK THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL POWER PACK PROGRAM AND IS STILL A GOOD PROCEDURE TODAY IF YOU BELIEVE IN POWER PACKING
COST .. CLOSE TO $100.00 ...
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Here is my simple KISS worming procedure using holidays as my worming dates.
WEEK OF CHRISTMAS TO JAN 1 .... QUEST .. IT IS A 90 DAY WORMER AND HORSES ARE FEEDING IN LIMITED AREAS AND THIS STARTS THEM OFF CLEAN FOR THE NEW YEAR
EASTER ... IVERMECTIN ...........>> APPROX 90 DAYS FROM WORMING WITH QUEST ... THIS IS GOOD FOR SIXY DAYS .. AS YOU KNOW EASTER IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT DATE EACH YEAR SO DON'T BE CONCERNED STICK WITH THE PLAN
JULY 4TH ... IVERMECTIN .. WEATHER HAS WARMED UP AND WORM LARVAE ARE RUNNING RAMPANT IN PASTURE GRASSES ..
LABOR DAY ...IVERMECTIN ... ALMOST A PERFECT 60 DAY CYCLE FROM JULY 4TH ..
HALOWEEN .. IVERMECTIN ... ANOTHER ALMOST PERFECT 60 DAYS ..
NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER PASS AND YOU ARE READY TO START WITH QUEST AGAIN WEEK OF CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEARS ...
NOTE ... THAT IS ONLY 5 WORMINGS FOR THE YEAR ...
3-4$ X 4 FOR IVERMECTIN = ~$16
ONE DOSE OF QUEST @~$14 = $30 FOR THE YEAR
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GOOD LUCK AND KEEP THEM THAR HORSES FED WELL AND WORM FREE
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-02-11 4:48 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| achildres - 2016-02-10 7:12 PM
Somewhat related to this topic and I feel like its a informational experience to share:
I dewormed all 3 of my horses with Panacur at the beginning of December. (14 yo, 3 yo, and 1 yo). The middle of january rolls around and the now 2 yo goes off of feed and starts acting STRANGE - colicky would be the only way to describe it. I take her in to the clinic and get her tubed, etc, and watched until she passes poop; asked the vet to run a fecal and check for ulcers. The results come back as FULL of worms, and with ulcers (ugh!!!), so as per the vet's recommendation we double dose with Panacur, and then recheck a fecal in 2 weeks. 2 weeks go by and the new fecal shows that the Panacur didn't do crap. So the next line of defensive was ivermectin. I decided to use plain Zimmectrin (my other 2 horses are getting the same treatments also just in case). 2 weeks later another fecal shows that the Zimmectrin worked and shes clean as a whistle.
Just throwing that out there for anyone curious on effectiveness of wormers...
Just a thought with this .... Make sure that the wormer you are using is directed at the worms you have. A fecal float will tell you there are worms, but without adults or just hatched worms, you cannot tell squat of the type.
Each wormer is directed at slightly different life cycles and stages of worms. Panacur (powerpak) is not an end all be all, and that goes for the other types out there too. There are great charts available that describe when the life stages happen for the different worm types (as was mentioned above by another poster). |
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Power pac wormer followed by quest