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 Expert
Posts: 1261
  
| Looking for a prospect and I am most afraid I will end with with a fire breathing dragon or something that Broncs mid pattern. Never had either of these problems but I don't want to. Some people say it's the rider/trainer and I have defiantly seen some people that would make anything crazy but I have also seen some really hot horses with very quite riders, though the really awful ones had histories of questionable training. I am just curious what others have experienced or think. Even if it's the fastest thing out there you couldn't pay me to run a horse that's leaping through the air with its head turned upside down before and after a run lol. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
 
Location: Bandera, TX | wishes4kissez - 2016-02-12 2:56 PM Looking for a prospect and I am most afraid I will end with with a fire breathing dragon or something that Broncs mid pattern. Never had either of these problems but I don't want to. Some people say it's the rider/trainer and I have defiantly seen some people that would make anything crazy but I have also seen some really hot horses with very quite riders, though the really awful ones had histories of questionable training. I am just curious what others have experienced or think. Even if it's the fastest thing out there you couldn't pay me to run a horse that's leaping through the air with its head turned upside down before and after a run lol.
Some of us like leaping...seriously, the answer to your question is both. I've ridden babies that were hot from their first ride and others that I used my high-energy personality to juice up. I have to reach deep inside for the ice water to flow when I get a rowdy actor now a days. The first thirty days can not be rushed! They are (to me) the most important time in the young horses life. |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| I know some people do like that! It scares the crap out of me!! Lol when I was pregnant I leased my horse to a lady from my barn she said she was kinda bummed that my mare walks into/out the arena head down and relaxed. She said she actually liked her old horse literally raring to go because it got her pumped and excited to run! I am not that person! I get anxious and unfocused on my run when the horse is like that! |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| Try and look at " Long term trends" with certain blood lines. For example, Peppy San Badger. Yes I am sure there are dozens of nice, calm colts out there by him, BUTTTTTTTT There are thousands of counterfit bucking SOB's to!! I owned 2 of them!!! First one was an ex cutter broke to death that would win a cutting any day of the week, but about every 6-7th work would just break in two and buck... It was calculated and planned. NO PAIN... I got him cheap and guess what? He made a barrel horse over night. And yes, about every 6-7th run he would be winning the barrel race until he broke in two running between the barrels, or to the first barrel, or running home. You just never knew. So I stay away from anything with those blood lines. I am sure there are some nice honest ones out there. From what I understand DTF colts are kind of sensitive to discipline and SMART SMART SMART. My DTF is always looking for feedback from me that he did good etc... and yep, SMART. Made a barrel horse practically over night. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | How old of a prospect are you going to purchase? Are you buying something broke and started? A baby? How trained do you expect them to be when you get them?
Generally - I can get a really good idea of their temperment in a couple of rides, and just go with my 'gut' feel. Some bloodlines are a bit hotter than others - some riders can makea quiet horse hot. Lots of variables. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Both. Some are born naturally high strung, just like people. They're all individuals. But I've definitely seen a LOT of horses who have been really messed up through poor riding and training. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I think it is definitely a bit of both. I've noticed that own get of DTF's are just hotter in general, even when not racing - foaled out a broodmare last year who you had to run with (with a chain on her of course) to get anywhere, she was just HOT and ready to go. Any horse can be made hot though, but there are definitely 'hot' bloodlines out there. |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Both.....I have hot medium calm.....my 4 yr old is actually the calmest can a stupid rider makes things worse definitely. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Both. There's plenty of ways to make one hot--horsemanship, on purpose, health problems, lameness problems, all those can make one hot. My young horse gets very hot, jittery, etc, when his belly and ulcers are acting up. That's how I know.
Some are just honestly made that way. I had a mare that I did a lot of expensive vet work, treated well, got her digestion working great, and she still was just a psycho tied to the trailer or in the pasture or pen by herself. She was pretty good as long as she had a person or another horse with her, and she was easy to scare, but that was just her basic makeup. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 502
Location: United States | I firmly believe its how they are bred. If you have a horse that is hot from a poor trainer/rider... a good rider can bring them back with exercises and good care. |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Each horse is an individual.
I've seen horses with no handling be hot, and I've seen horses come unglued with the wrong type of training and handling. And I've seen horses with great training get hotter the more familiar they get with their job.
A good horseman will work through whatever they have, but you've got to be the type to want to. |
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 Schnoodle Lover
Posts: 2987
Location: **Cactus Country down in South Texas*** | cavyrunsbarrels - 2016-02-12 3:58 PM
Both. Some are born naturally high strung, just like people. They're all individuals. But I've definitely seen a LOT of horses who have been really messed up through poor riding and training.
Absolutely concur, I believe that they are born & made. For instances, I had a lovely mare that I bought as a 3 year old. Broke her and started her total baby doll, she ran in a snaffle no tie down etc. Walk in and out of ally before and after a run. I regrettable sold her to a so called friend at the time, who after 4 months of having her & went to see her run with new owners. Totally jacked her up, rearing the ally way, tie down on her, and a gag bit on her. Came out hot & sweaty from being stressed out. There idea of practice was making 10 runs in one day, & then asking the question of "I don't know why they are doing" whatever it was they are doing. Next thing I know they sold her, and bought another nice horse, and they did the same thing to the other horse. And repeated this several other times. But what I am getting at a horse can be made to be hot.  |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Both. Some bloodlines are naturally hot or nervous, but a good horse in a bad situation can turn into a hot horse. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I have all race bred mares who are not hot.
I have a dinero daughter who is going to be hot, not even on the pattern and she doesn't like to stand still.
I have a fwf granddaughter foundation on the bottom that is hot. Had a gelding by the same stud that was as calm as could be.
Yes there is genetics, look at others by the same sire and dam.
I agree with psb being counterfeit, had a granddaughter all of her colts were buckers, the ones that were trainable were awesome, the others were canned.
There are certain frenchmans guy studs I have seen to be counterfeit as well.
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Veteran
Posts: 180
| To me there are different types of hot. I don't mind a hot horse going in to the gate. As long as they keep their front feet on the ground I am fine. I however hate horses that cannot have another job outside the pattern. I want my horses broke enough and sane enough to have other jobs. That might be ponying/dragging a colt around or being ranched on, but they need to be able to walk flat footed at home and outside on the trail.
I have found there are naturally hot horses however many have not been taught it is ok to relax and be quiet. Quiet jockey= less tension and excitement for the horses which over time makes them quieter. I'm not afraid of a hot horse. I would much rather them hot than dead sided and lazy. I guess it boils down to personal preference. ETA to add. Horses that are hot are more sensitive. Because horses are prey animals when a sensitive horse feels nervous or threatened his natural reaction is to want to run. The repetitive flight reaction caues us to label them hot. Take away the pressure and over time they relax.
Edited by gypsykalgirl 2016-02-13 12:31 AM
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I agree with the poster who said there are different types of hot. I have had all kinds. I feel like im naturally drawn to high energy horses...mainly because they dont intimidate me and tend to be cheaper. I have two now that are hot natured but good minded. Sometime they walk in the gate flat footed but its rare. As long as they arent lunging or rearing, it doesnt bother me. One is OTMR so I think she is genetically hot. Most I have been around are that way. The other one is a paint with unheard of bloodlines but I knew the lady who raised her...and lets just say I think she was made into a hot horse. It's not the end of the world if you get a hot prospect. You can harness it at a young age and turn them into amazing performance horses. I would rather have one that wants to work than a lazy one that would rather munch on hay at the trailer. Most of the horses you see launching themselves into the air can be attributed to something going wrong in their training. |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| MS2011 - 2016-02-12 1:52 PM
How old of a prospect are you going to purchase? Are you buying something broke and started? A baby? How trained do you expect them to be when you get them?
Generally - I can get a really good idea of their temperment in a couple of rides, and just go with my 'gut' feel. Some bloodlines are a bit hotter than others - some riders can makea quiet horse hot. Lots of variables.
I am hoping to find something 3-6 with a decent start on it. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Both. Sometimes people focus on the wrong thing and cause the problems. Most people would hate my daughters mare. She is a hot mess at the gate. It isn't because she's refusing. We have the opposite problem. She wants to go so bad that she doesn't want to wait. She'll only wait for so long then she just says "screw it" and goes. She's super sensitive. You just growl at her and she thinks you are killing her. We put up with her gate antics because she works every time, is rarely out of the 1D and is as honest as the day is long. Most people would have blown her sky high by picking on her and focusing on her hot issue.
Recently we acquired her half brother. He has won quite a bit when he was a juvie and at the start I his futurity year. He was with two of the top futurity trainers. This horse is a lot like Vegas. They picked on him a lot. He is wicked fast but he doesn't make the prettiest runs. The last trainer wanted that speed and expected him to be perfect so he tuned on him...a lot. This horse will walk flat footed through a gate. But on the pattern he starts to panic because he's afraid of being crucified. He's awesome about every other run. You just never know what he's going to do. He can get by ever barrel and still clock with the best.
So we have two almost identical horses that were trained by opposite theories. One was made to love the job because she's never had a bad experience. The other was rammed and jammed and forced to be perfect. He had enough and flipped them the bird. Sometimes with a sensitive, strong willed and hotter horse, you need to pick your battles and decide what is more important to you. These types are not for everyone. You will never beat these types of horses into submission. You won't ride them down with wet saddle blankets. They typically will hold a grudge. If your attitude is "they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. Know your limitations and understand there is nothing wrong with not taking on this type of they don't suit you. |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| I was actually looking at a double bred PSB filly lol I too have had a PSB Colt that was like you described a intentional bucker he would be fine for months and then just randomly break in two but he was a reject from the breeder because he was difficult and he then had an abusive owner so I don't know. The filly is by a sire that advertises that he's never sired a bucker and I have seen several full siblings that are very nice.
What are some other lines that I should probably stay clear off? I don't mind energy at all. As long as a horse is controllable and not unpredictable that's fine I just don't like straight up crazy lol. I don't want something that can't go out and do other things or has tons of bad habits that you just can't really enjoy being around. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I broke and patterned a PSB bred gelding and he is just the sweetest thing ever. Kinda lazy really, I don't think he will be the top barrel horse ever, but probably a 3D gelding, all around horse. I'd venture to say he was born broke really, have only ever seen him buck once and the guy deserved it. haha |
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Expert
Posts: 1261
| SKM - 2016-02-13 10:12 AM
Both. Sometimes people focus on the wrong thing and cause the problems. Most people would hate my daughters mare. She is a hot mess at the gate. It isn't because she's refusing. We have the opposite problem. She wants to go so bad that she doesn't want to wait. She'll only wait for so long then she just says "screw it" and goes. She's super sensitive. You just growl at her and she thinks you are killing her. We put up with her gate antics because she works every time, is rarely out of the 1D and is as honest as the day is long. Most people would have blown her sky high by picking on her and focusing on her hot issue.
Recently we acquired her half brother. He has won quite a bit when he was a juvie and at the start I his futurity year. He was with two of the top futurity trainers. This horse is a lot like Vegas. They picked on him a lot. He is wicked fast but he doesn't make the prettiest runs. The last trainer wanted that speed and expected him to be perfect so he tuned on him...a lot. This horse will walk flat footed through a gate. But on the pattern he starts to panic because he's afraid of being crucified. He's awesome about every other run. You just never know what he's going to do. He can get by ever barrel and still clock with the best.
So we have two almost identical horses that were trained by opposite theories. One was made to love the job because she's never had a bad experience. The other was rammed and jammed and forced to be perfect. He had enough and flipped them the bird. Sometimes with a sensitive, strong willed and hotter horse, you need to pick your battles and decide what is more important to you. These types are not for everyone. You will never beat these types of horses into submission. You won't ride them down with wet saddle blankets. They typically will hold a grudge. If your attitude is "they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. Know your limitations and understand there is nothing wrong with not taking on this type of they don't suit you.
Yeah I see that in a lot of horses I have been around too. I am not that way I get along with a sensitive horse really well and I have no problem learning and trying different things to see what works for a horse. I always try to keep them loving their job and having fun and think about the long term. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I think it is the same with our horses as it is with us... Genetics loads the gun and we pull the trigger.
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Member
Posts: 15
| SKM - 2016-02-13 12:12 PM
Both. Sometimes people focus on the wrong thing and cause the problems. Most people would hate my daughters mare. She is a hot mess at the gate. It isn't because she's refusing. We have the opposite problem. She wants to go so bad that she doesn't want to wait. She'll only wait for so long then she just says "screw it" and goes. She's super sensitive. You just growl at her and she thinks you are killing her. We put up with her gate antics because she works every time, is rarely out of the 1D and is as honest as the day is long. Most people would have blown her sky high by picking on her and focusing on her hot issue.
Recently we acquired her half brother. He has won quite a bit when he was a juvie and at the start I his futurity year. He was with two of the top futurity trainers. This horse is a lot like Vegas. They picked on him a lot. He is wicked fast but he doesn't make the prettiest runs. The last trainer wanted that speed and expected him to be perfect so he tuned on him...a lot. This horse will walk flat footed through a gate. But on the pattern he starts to panic because he's afraid of being crucified. He's awesome about every other run. You just never know what he's going to do. He can get by ever barrel and still clock with the best.
So we have two almost identical horses that were trained by opposite theories. One was made to love the job because she's never had a bad experience. The other was rammed and jammed and forced to be perfect. He had enough and flipped them the bird. Sometimes with a sensitive, strong willed and hotter horse, you need to pick your battles and decide what is more important to you. These types are not for everyone. You will never beat these types of horses into submission. You won't ride them down with wet saddle blankets. They typically will hold a grudge. If your attitude is "they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. Know your limitations and understand there is nothing wrong with not taking on this type of they don't suit you.
I read this today before heading out to ride my gelding and the result was fantastic. You are right you cannot pick on some horses constantly. My horse also is extremely talented but is so scared of the barrel arena. He was trained by a man who is very successful with stallions but this gelding couldn't take the same treatment. I love this horse very much and know that he wants to please and today was great. Thank you for sharing this info. Not all horses can be trained the same way. I wish I knew how to hi light the text where you said " if your attitude is they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. You saved a horse today from a lot of frustration and I fell in love with him all over again - he tried so hard  Thank you |
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Saint Stacey
| Mrs J - 2016-02-14 10:38 PM
SKM - 2016-02-13 12:12 PM
Both. Sometimes people focus on the wrong thing and cause the problems. Most people would hate my daughters mare. She is a hot mess at the gate. It isn't because she's refusing. We have the opposite problem. She wants to go so bad that she doesn't want to wait. She'll only wait for so long then she just says "screw it" and goes. She's super sensitive. You just growl at her and she thinks you are killing her. We put up with her gate antics because she works every time, is rarely out of the 1D and is as honest as the day is long. Most people would have blown her sky high by picking on her and focusing on her hot issue.
Recently we acquired her half brother. He has won quite a bit when he was a juvie and at the start I his futurity year. He was with two of the top futurity trainers. This horse is a lot like Vegas. They picked on him a lot. He is wicked fast but he doesn't make the prettiest runs. The last trainer wanted that speed and expected him to be perfect so he tuned on him...a lot. This horse will walk flat footed through a gate. But on the pattern he starts to panic because he's afraid of being crucified. He's awesome about every other run. You just never know what he's going to do. He can get by ever barrel and still clock with the best.
So we have two almost identical horses that were trained by opposite theories. One was made to love the job because she's never had a bad experience. The other was rammed and jammed and forced to be perfect. He had enough and flipped them the bird. Sometimes with a sensitive, strong willed and hotter horse, you need to pick your battles and decide what is more important to you. These types are not for everyone. You will never beat these types of horses into submission. You won't ride them down with wet saddle blankets. They typically will hold a grudge. If your attitude is "they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. Know your limitations and understand there is nothing wrong with not taking on this type of they don't suit you.
I read this today before heading out to ride my gelding and the result was fantastic. You are right you cannot pick on some horses constantly. My horse also is extremely talented but is so scared of the barrel arena. He was trained by a man who is very successful with stallions but this gelding couldn't take the same treatment. I love this horse very much and know that he wants to please and today was great. Thank you for sharing this info. Not all horses can be trained the same way. I wish I knew how to hi light the text where you said " if your attitude is they WILL do it MY way no matter what", then you have no business with this type of horse. You saved a horse today from a lot of frustration and I fell in love with him all over again - he tried so hard Thank you
I'm so happy to read this! I'm glad you got something out of it that helped your horse.
This gelding of ours knows the pattern. My daughter spends a lot of time pasture riding him. Out there is where she works on basic skills,flexing, etc. He does see the barrels almost daily. But it's only at the walk and just a few patterns. She is very consistent with her rate point and what she does. She sucks up to him with cookies. When we got him in October, he had zero personality. Now he's a character and loves his girl. He's just going to keep getting better and better as he starts to like his job again. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| It's bred in them but an unskilled or nervous rider can create one too. I'm a very quiet rider and ride a lot of different horses. A couple on my trailer have to be "woke up" before they run. Another one is calm one minute and a psychotic mess the next minute. He has been recently vetted by 2 top vets. This horse is just a hot headed idiot that snaps for no reason. He happens to be close up Bugs Alive bred. Another BA75 mare I rode was also a nervous panic stricken mental mess. No more BA75 for me. People say you can't ride them papers. I say those papers can tell you a LOT and save a lot of grief. |
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Veteran
Posts: 276
| I agree with most that training has a lot to do with it, but I would also like to mention that a big part of that is the feeding and riding program as well. You do not have to be a top notch trainer/rider necessarily, but putting in a lot of quiet time, will most generally result in a quiet horse. On the flip side, if you stall a horse 24-7, feed it too much HOT HOT grain, and ride it only a couple times a week or less, mostly only going fast or making runs, be it practice or competition, you are going to have a hot horse. |
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Hot horses are they bred or made?