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| To start I am feeding Bluebonnet Intensify Omega Force (to her and my other 2 mares), along with alfalfa and aloe vera juice. I started them on this feed a relatively short time ago - approximately 12 weeks. Mid-January he 2 yo acted very strange/colicky and didn't eat her grain (devoured the hay though). She went to the vet and had worms and ulcers. Now the worms are cleared up (checked by a clean fecal) and she was treated for ulcers for 30 days with omeprazole/randitine paste. After the worms were cleared she started eating again (so about 3 weeks of eating just fine). This morning she went off her feed and hay entirely. She ate perfectly fine last night - licking her bowl - today, nothing. She is drinking/peeing but hasn't pooped all morning; but other than that, her behavior is fine.
The vet is going to run a full bloodwork panel on her - but quite frankly she is stumped. Were starting with the bloodwork and going from there. Were considering treating for ulcers again also.
I'm thinking that the feed has a lot to do with this. Which concerns me so naturally I am wanting to follow the trend of removing processed grains. I'm really not sure where to start with what I should choose... i see talk about alfalfa+rice bran+oats. What do yall suggest and how much? Whatever I switch this filly to i would like to switch my 4 yo (in training) and 15 yo rodeo mare to something similar. |
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| Readytorodeo posted on here last week that her horse acted exactly like yours on the same feed!!!! |
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  Whack and Roll
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Location: NE Texas | Ideally, I would use the best quality forage you can find, and use the oats and rice bran as only a medium in which to add any supplements you choose to do. Oats (or any grain) should be fed at less than 2 pounds per feeding, really less if possible, as 2 pounds should be the max. Whole oats are dense, so be sure to weigh them. I personally only feed a half - 3/4 scoop of whole oats with a cup of flax seed or BOSS one time daily to mix in my Cur-OST. My horses get alfalfa hay morning and night and stay turned out most of the time. I have one horse that comes in at night. During the summer, they do get some grass, but right now there isn't much to much on beyond weeds. I have bumped my alfalfa up to 2 flakes in the evening and one flake in the morning and all have sustained well. |
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 11:38 AM
Readytorodeo posted on here last week that her horse acted exactly like yours on the same feed!!!!
I did read this thread! It's weird because my other 2 horses have no problems at all (or at least they haven't shown me any problems...) |
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| Herbie - 2016-02-17 11:40 AM
Ideally, I would use the best quality forage you can find, and use the oats and rice bran as only a medium in which to add any supplements you choose to do. Oats (or any grain) should be fed at less than 2 pounds per feeding, really less if possible, as 2 pounds should be the max. Whole oats are dense, so be sure to weigh them. I personally only feed a half - 3/4 scoop of whole oats with a cup of flax seed or BOSS one time daily to mix in my Cur-OST. My horses get alfalfa hay morning and night and stay turned out most of the time. I have one horse that comes in at night. During the summer, they do get some grass, but right now there isn't much to much on beyond weeds. I have bumped my alfalfa up to 2 flakes in the evening and one flake in the morning and all have sustained well.
The alfalfa I have is the best I've been able to find in my area. I have heard (from the vet and other sources) that oats are not digestible but I haven't done my own research on the subject... Are they?
I've fed rice bran before as an additive for a hard keeper and been very pleased. Im feeding 1 flake morning and night right now, so if I did just rice bran and flax seed (and maybe oats) would you think I need to up the alfalfa or I should just play that by ear? The older mares are getting Animal Element right now |
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Whack and Roll
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Location: NE Texas | Yes, they are digestible if the hind gut is functioning as it should, but that is the case with any grain we feed. Oats are just more visible in manure than other grains or pellets. Even if seen in the manure, doesn't mean they aren't digestible, just that the hind gut could be improved. I have no issue with oats in my program, however I feed them in very small amounts. If I need more energy, I will increase the amount I feed, but so far, all of my horses are doing great....they aren't hot, but they aren't lethargic like they were on the high fat diets.
I think you'd be fine with your current regimen. I feed the feed you're feeding prior to going this route also and was very concerned with my horses maintaining without the BB feed. I haven't had any issues. |
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Expert
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| achildres - 2016-02-17 9:45 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 11:38 AM
Readytorodeo posted on here last week that her horse acted exactly like yours on the same feed!!!!
I did read this thread! It's weird because my other 2 horses have no problems at all (or at least they haven't shown me any problems... )
Unfortunately with feed contamination issues one horse may be fine and another can get really sick. |
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 Warrior Mom
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 12:20 PM
achildres - 2016-02-17 9:45 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 11:38 AM
Readytorodeo posted on here last week that her horse acted exactly like yours on the same feed!!!!
I did read this thread! It's weird because my other 2 horses have no problems at all (or at least they haven't shown me any problems... )
Unfortunately with feed contamination issues one horse may be fine and another can get really sick.
I thought blue bonnet was an ionophore free facility? |
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Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | I would re treat for ulcers. You cant scope for hind gut ulcers, so that could be the case. Also switch to Renew Gold if you can. It's amazing- I will never feed anything else again. |
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| JLBerry - 2016-02-17 1:07 PM
I would re treat for ulcers. You cant scope for hind gut ulcers, so that could be the case. Also switch to Renew Gold if you can. It's amazing- I will never feed anything else again.
i had all of mine on renew gold for a very long time, but they started looking worse and worse as time went on, so i changed them out of it |
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| The vet just came out, shes running a fever. Poor girl is just sick! Im still considering switching feeds though... |
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 12:20 PM
achildres - 2016-02-17 9:45 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-02-17 11:38 AM
Readytorodeo posted on here last week that her horse acted exactly like yours on the same feed!!!!
I did read this thread! It's weird because my other 2 horses have no problems at all (or at least they haven't shown me any problems... )
Unfortunately with feed contamination issues one horse may be fine and another can get really sick.
Blue bonnet is ionophore free. define "sick" when it comes to this though... |
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Expert
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| achildres - 2016-02-17 11:55 AM
JLBerry - 2016-02-17 1:07 PM
I would re treat for ulcers. You cant scope for hind gut ulcers, so that could be the case. Also switch to Renew Gold if you can. It's amazing- I will never feed anything else again.
i had all of mine on renew gold for a very long time, but they started looking worse and worse as time went on, so i changed them out of it
Me to!!!!My horses went down hill and looked like crud on Renew gold. There have been quite a few others I have talked to said same thing |
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Expert
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| I am sure that it was the feed. I switched her to Triple Crown Sr and Renew Gold. You can use any Sr feed. I feed 2 cups a feeding of the Sr and 1/2 of a 32 ounce cup of Renew. I feed 1 flake of Alfalfa and 1 flake of Timothy twice daily. Jen on here was a big help. I starterd her on the Oxy Ulcer and Oxymax, She started nibling on feed but did not start back full force till I changed the feed. Oxy Ulcer will get both hind and fore gut ulcers. omeprazole will not. Jen is a rep for Oxygen and she can help you. My horse is eating like a pig now. i give her the oxyulcer before her nightly feed. i know a lot of people on here suggest oats. if you have a ulcer horse, you do not want to feed oats. The starch is way too high. She was on Curost before, but nothing has worked as well as the Oxygen.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-02-17 2:52 PM
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I just read the headlines
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| I have had several vets tell me that oats are fine to feed a horse with ulcers. My horses had ulcers and I fed Omni cubes which have whole oats in the cube and they really turned around. You just don't need to feed them very much like Herbie said. |
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| GLP - 2016-02-17 3:23 PM
I have had several vets tell me that oats are fine to feed a horse with ulcers. My horses had ulcers and I fed Omni cubes which have whole oats in the cube and they really turned around. You just don't need to feed them very much like Herbie said.
I asked my vet and he said definetly no oats. I did the change to oats after talking to Dr Schell. Knowing that it was the wrong thing to do. I had a colic in a matter of days. Vet told me that oats were too high in starch and that to never give to a horse that is a known ulcer horse or ulcer prone. I have had a lot of experience with ulcer issues. And have asked nutritionist and even the vets at A and M. All have said the same thing, no oats. And you want a ulcer horse to have hay in front of them 24/7. Depending on the horse even a a small amount of oats can make them not feel well.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-02-17 3:42 PM
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I just read the headlines
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| readytorodeo - 2016-02-17 3:40 PM
GLP - 2016-02-17 3:23 PM
I have had several vets tell me that oats are fine to feed a horse with ulcers. My horses had ulcers and I fed Omni cubes which have whole oats in the cube and they really turned around. You just don't need to feed them very much like Herbie said.
I asked my vet and he said definetly no oats. I did the change to oats after talking to Dr Schell. Knowing that it was the wrong thing to do. I had a colic in a matter of days. Vet told me that oats were too high in starch and that to never give to a horse that is a known ulcer horse or ulcer prone. I have had a lot of experience with ulcer issues. And have asked nutritionist and even the vets at A and M. All have said the same thing, no oats. And you want a ulcer horse to have hay in front of them 24/7. Depending on the horse even a a small amount of oats can make them not feel well.
Well, all I can say is I did feed a small amount of oats to mine that had ulcers and they are doing great now. It wasn't Dr. Schell who I was referring to but my own personal vets. In fact, one of the vets laughed at me when I asked him about oats being bad for ulcer horses. He's an older vet who works on many performance horses and competes himself. |
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Veteran
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| Change your grain again look into tribute kalm ultra. And forefront equine foredigest as well as the collostrum. Pm me I would be happy to go into detail on the forefront products ?? |
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| She was treated with antibiotics today and some banamine and gobbled up her hay and grain this evening.... UGH shes frustrating and shes not quite 2 yet!!! |
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 Expert
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| Just a thought - Bluebonnet is good feed.
When you treat for ulcers with rantidine and omprazole - what happens in the stomach? Less acid is produced to give the lining a chance to heal. What happens in the gut? Less acid = less initial digestion which then can change the downstream hind gut fermentation that happens in horses.
If your ulcer problem is big enough, and in the hind gut, you may need to clean up the ulcers to help prevent colic. And yes, sometimes colic can present with fever and going off feed.
Pull the grain all together, get your ulcer issue fixed (30 days treatment may not have been enough), and up the quality of hay you're feeding - maybe even go to free choice forage too.
There could be a multitude of problems going on that are not all related to just the grain you're feeding.
JMTC. |
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I just read the headlines
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| lindseylou2290 - 2016-02-18 8:53 AM
Just a thought - Bluebonnet is good feed.
When you treat for ulcers with rantidine and omprazole - what happens in the stomach? Less acid is produced to give the lining a chance to heal. What happens in the gut? Less acid = less initial digestion which then can change the downstream hind gut fermentation that happens in horses.
If your ulcer problem is big enough, and in the hind gut, you may need to clean up the ulcers to help prevent colic. And yes, sometimes colic can present with fever and going off feed.
Pull the grain all together, get your ulcer issue fixed (30 days treatment may not have been enough), and up the quality of hay you're feeding - maybe even go to free choice forage too.
There could be a multitude of problems going on that are not all related to just the grain you're feeding.
JMTC.
Good advice!  |
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| lindseylou2290 - 2016-02-18 8:53 AM
Just a thought - Bluebonnet is good feed.
When you treat for ulcers with rantidine and omprazole - what happens in the stomach? Less acid is produced to give the lining a chance to heal. What happens in the gut? Less acid = less initial digestion which then can change the downstream hind gut fermentation that happens in horses.
If your ulcer problem is big enough, and in the hind gut, you may need to clean up the ulcers to help prevent colic. And yes, sometimes colic can present with fever and going off feed.
Pull the grain all together, get your ulcer issue fixed (30 days treatment may not have been enough), and up the quality of hay you're feeding - maybe even go to free choice forage too.
There could be a multitude of problems going on that are not all related to just the grain you're feeding. Sometimes she paws and looks at her stomach but for most of the morning she's just standing at the stall door looking sad.
JMTC.
Thank you for your response! The alfalfa I have is the best quality that's around here (near Houston area). For treating for the potential of ulcers again, would I use the same medicine? And when you say pull off grain does that mean for now or forever.. As I stated earlier, however I change this Fillies diet is how I want to change my other mares.
For an update; she didn't want to eat this morning and has a 103.1 fever. With normal peeing/pooping. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Omprazole and rantidine are both good products - as far as I know, neither treats hind gut ulcers. Which, could be part of the problem here .... I am not a vet, you need to talk with your vet, explain what you see and make sure you aren't throwing antibiotics at a problem they can't cure. I saw that your vet is running a blood panel, any news on that yet?
First, figure out where your fever is coming from. You say she is pooping and peeing - GREAT! When those things stop, we get super worried.
She may have a fever from a bacterial infection, or a virus, or MANY things - You're by Houston? I'm betting it hasn't froze in a long time, which means your insect cycle hasn't been interrupted, so I'd be looking at viral infections as a huge possibility since there are many spread by insects.
What I'm getting at is that there are TONS of reasons for horses going off feed. Please don't jump to conclusions that your feed is the only reason, it may not be. Good alfalfa is not going to hurt your horse and it sounds like you have quality hay too. Removing the grain from the diet until you figure all this out is not going to change much in the near future but it certainly helps simplify things.
Good Luck - it sucks having sick horses. |
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| Okay gotcha! Yeah my vet has been out once (she was the first to get the fever) and j have been texting her updates every 5 seconds. She said the blood work showed nothing exciting... She was the one who suggested we do the antibiotics. she really doesn't have any idea what's going on.
She's currently laying down (yes I'm the horse mom who hovers - this filly was my first foal so I'm super protective).
I can see what you mean by jt may not be her feed! Thank you so much for your input! |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Ah hugs - I understand. It sucks having sick ones, animals or children.
It might be worth your while if this continues for a couple days to call up to the vet diagnostic labs at A&M .... Large Universities with Vet schools often will have more resources for testing .... When you say full blood work, was this cell counts, a viral panel, a bacterial panel, did they run diagnostics for antibody tests for anything? I'm just throwing ideas out there. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | JLBerry - 2016-02-17 11:07 AM I would re treat for ulcers. You cant scope for hind gut ulcers, so that could be the case. Also switch to Renew Gold if you can. It's amazing- I will never feed anything else again.
Same here. Renew Gold is my product of choice for Rice Bran. My horse doesn't need extra energy so I don't feed oats. I feed alfalfa and grass hay (grass hay is more of a filler). |
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| lindseylou2290 - 2016-02-18 11:00 AM
Ah hugs - I understand. It sucks having sick ones, animals or children.
It might be worth your while if this continues for a couple days to call up to the vet diagnostic labs at A&M .... Large Universities with Vet schools often will have more resources for testing .... When you say full blood work, was this cell counts, a viral panel, a bacterial panel, did they run diagnostics for antibody tests for anything? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Funny you say that, Im actually a student at A&M, and the vet is an Aggie grad! Im not entirely sure everything that she ran, but I know she said that the white blood cell count looked normal, and she did say she was going to look to see if its viral/bacterial. If I had to guess, the vet has already called some professors up there to see what they think lol. |
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Expert
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| achildres - 2016-02-18 11:37 AM
lindseylou2290 - 2016-02-18 11:00 AM
Ah hugs - I understand. It sucks having sick ones, animals or children.
It might be worth your while if this continues for a couple days to call up to the vet diagnostic labs at A&M .... Large Universities with Vet schools often will have more resources for testing .... When you say full blood work, was this cell counts, a viral panel, a bacterial panel, did they run diagnostics for antibody tests for anything? I'm just throwing ideas out there.
Funny you say that, Im actually a student at A&M, and the vet is an Aggie grad! Im not entirely sure everything that she ran, but I know she said that the white blood cell count looked normal, and she did say she was going to look to see if its viral/bacterial. If I had to guess, the vet has already called some professors up there to see what they think lol.
Sounds like you're on the right track with a good vet! If the viral and bact. panels come back clean - then I would start looking at ulcers, then I would look potentially at feed contaminates.
Good Luck!
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 My Heart Be Happy
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Location: Arkansas | achildres - 2016-02-18 10:56 AM
Okay gotcha! Yeah my vet has been out once (she was the first to get the fever) and j have been texting her updates every 5 seconds. She said the blood work showed nothing exciting... She was the one who suggested we do the antibiotics. she really doesn't have any idea what's going on.
She's currently laying down (yes I'm the horse mom who hovers - this filly was my first foal so I'm super protective).
I can see what you mean by jt may not be her feed! Thank you so much for your input!
How is she tonight? I'm that same kind of momma that watches over them probably too much! |
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| Chandler's Mom - 2016-02-18 10:50 PM
achildres - 2016-02-18 10:56 AM
Okay gotcha! Yeah my vet has been out once (she was the first to get the fever) and j have been texting her updates every 5 seconds. She said the blood work showed nothing exciting... She was the one who suggested we do the antibiotics. she really doesn't have any idea what's going on.
She's currently laying down (yes I'm the horse mom who hovers - this filly was my first foal so I'm super protective).
I can see what you mean by jt may not be her feed! Thank you so much for your input!
How is she tonight? I'm that same kind of momma that watches over them probably too much!
Well yesterday afternoon I turned her out and she grazed for about 30 minutes and then went up and down about 5 times one right after another. The vet said I should probably bring her up to the clinic, so I did. She pooped in the trailer (which is good) but hwr fever went back up to 102.5, so we decided to leave her for the night.
As of this morning the vet said she had one small pile of poop over night but she's acting fine and eating. They're going to re-run bloodwork. |
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Going off Feed/Changing feed question...Help!