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boon
Posts: 3
| My horse has beautiful slow work but when it comes to adding speed he kinda loses everything. He's got a motor and is super powerful just wondering what tips people have for free running horses. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
   
| First of all they must know how to rate. If you have no rate you just have a horse out of control. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
| I have a free runner and he is not the best at slow work and he doesn't rate worth a crap- not my pick to go for a pleasure ride on , but he's an awesome horse- and has won plenty at rodeos and 1d in the barrel races , in my experience the best thing for him is to trust him sit deep and DON"T pull on him- I pretty much have to just trust him holler hey hey at each barrel sit deep and trust---- when I do that he will be in the top 5- most of the time if I try to help him he gets pushy in the bit- ( he is ott) and no matter how much softening I have done and slow work over the years when he is nervous the best thing for "us" is trust I was taught from a young age the horse once he's been given the proper foundation can do his job a whole lot better if you are not handling him very much- it works for us! hope this helps---- and I do know sometimes it is hard to trust but it does work |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I have a free runner. She runs as hard as she can but when she gets to the barrel she jams it in the ground and turns. Rate is built in from the time you start training. |
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| I am working on building that trust you talk about......oh, how to do it? It's like I want her to slow down to reassure me to turn. If she doesn't slow, I ask in her face and it's over. ARGH! I gotta trust. Is it just me, or is that an extremely hard concept?!?!?!? |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
Location: IL | You are not alone! I am struggling with the same issues! We are getting there slowly.... very slowly! I am glad to hear I am not the only one though. Great slow work, but when we add speed, everything falls apart.... |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Stay off their face. It's terrifying and feels like you're on a runaway and I usually gave mine a good bump if he really felt like he wasn't listening but other than that I had to stay off his face or he would get really bracey and blow his turns. He had impeccable slow work though and always anticipated his rate points when I did slow work with him so I knew during a run I had to just trust him and stay off of him. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | My little free runner was awesome at slow work, trot, lope, 1/2 speed, fantastic. Add speed anywhere and she lost her focus or what she was running for. Seriously the best thing I ever did was read a post from Diane Guinn about the Quick Stop bridle. I put off doing it for over a year after reading her reply on a post, even though it made sense I still wanted to try to do it with training instead of a "gimmick" or a band aid. A year later we were still spinning our wheels, gorgeous fluid slow work or 1/2 speed, anything faster and everything and I mean everything fell apart. Bought the quick stop and in 3 days of work she could cruise thru and 90% of the time when I asked for "rate" I got it, and I mean 90% in her competition bridle, only used the Quick stop one time at speed and havne't ever had to use it at speed on the pattern again. And got the rate correctly, nose in, broke at the poll, ribs lifted and her rear end up under her with a "yes mam!" It allowed me to be quieter with my hands, quit begging for rate/slow/please turn... which allowed her to separate me pulling on her becAsue I was terrified she was going to run by AGAIN and me lifting asking her to rate. In one month she went from running the slowest time of anyone that hadn't knocked a barrel down in a particular arena to pulling a check in the 3D at a larger 250+ entry race at the same arena. I still use it on her from time to time in my general riding to keep her honest and every once in a while I will do a slow work time only in it on a standard pattern outdoor pen to remind her that if she would like to run like a cat with its tail on fire she will need to rate and turn a tub.
And sorry, its the Fast Stop, not the quick stop...
Edited by run n rate 2016-05-03 5:26 PM
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 Captain Of The Prude Broom
Posts: 2153
Location: cincinnati, oh | tell me more about this fast stop bit please |
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Veteran
Posts: 178
Location: IL | run n rate - 2016-05-03 5:23 PM
My little free runner was awesome at slow work, trot, lope, 1/2 speed, fantastic. Add speed anywhere and she lost her focus or what she was running for. Seriously the best thing I ever did was read a post from Diane Guinn about the Quick Stop bridle. I put off doing it for over a year after reading her reply on a post, even though it made sense I still wanted to try to do it with training instead of a "gimmick" or a band aid. A year later we were still spinning our wheels, gorgeous fluid slow work or 1/2 speed, anything faster and everything and I mean everything fell apart. Bought the quick stop and in 3 days of work she could cruise thru and 90% of the time when I asked for "rate" I got it, and I mean 90% in her competition bridle, only used the Quick stop one time at speed and havne't ever had to use it at speed on the pattern again. And got the rate correctly, nose in, broke at the poll, ribs lifted and her rear end up under her with a "yes mam!" It allowed me to be quieter with my hands, quit begging for rate/slow/please turn... which allowed her to separate me pulling on her becAsue I was terrified she was going to run by AGAIN and me lifting asking her to rate. In one month she went from running the slowest time of anyone that hadn't knocked a barrel down in a particular arena to pulling a check in the 3D at a larger 250+ entry race at the same arena. I still use it on her from time to time in my general riding to keep her honest and every once in a while I will do a slow work time only in it on a standard pattern outdoor pen to remind her that if she would like to run like a cat with its tail on fire she will need to rate and turn a tub.
And sorry, its the Fast Stop, not the quick stop...
Do you happen to have a link to purchase this bridle? And what exercises have you used to keep her collected and turning and not blowing by the barrel? What do you use in competition? Do you use a tie down? Sorry for all the questions but TIA! |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Sorry, only have computer and wifi when I'm in town....
http://hilason.com/saddles-tack/horse-tack/headstalls/weaver-leathe...
Don 't let the Hilason scare you, its actually a Weaver Leather product. It is a very harsh hack, or can be if you use in incorrectly. Wish Diane Guinn would hop on here , I think she basically runs everything she has in it. I do not have good enough hands to run in it, I tend to panic and hit the panic button. Diane had a eye opening reply which I copied years ago but for the life of me I cannot find it now. For about 6 months it was my Bible. My little mare tended to get bracey and stiff when I ask for rate at speed, lock up her ribs, put her head in the air and her ribs would drop out which strung her back end out behind her, not only did it not clock well in the turns, it tended to make her sore across the loin and in the stifles. A german martingale helped some but only slightly with holding her together in the turns not so much for the actual rate part, the head bonnet type tie down worked a little for the same thing but again you can't get good position around the turn if your horse hasn't shortened its stride enough to turn a 4 foot diameter circle still having an 18 foot stride. Try making a round pen that way... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | Most all horses work fine slow.Speed disrupts everything.What I found in ones here and the ones that come to my clinic.The horse is fine.Most always the rider tends to pull a little more.The horse can run they are fine with it.The rider becomes a little bothered.All of a sudden they are out of their comfort zone some what.So they pull more trying to bring the horse back to where they are comfortable.Then the horse is confused.What do you want me to do go or not.You pull they push.Cant push and pull at the same time.Opposing forces are fine untill they run into each other.
Your running 70mph down the road and come to the turn.its a sharp one 30mph or less can you make it running 70.Same thing.
You get tense and they get tense.
Send the horse to the barrel.about 15ft or so stop.Ask them to stop.Dont snatch or jerk.Just ask.Take a step or two back and set still.You set still they set still if they move around back a step or two.The horse needs to settle in the turn.Get quiet here,Take the pressue of the turn off of both of you.Set there.Rub their mane pet them.You want them to take a breath lick their lips and relax.Understand it ok.Then walk the turn.They need to understand I can go fast and I can go slow its easy.Then go to next one do same at all three.Do this untill they setup and stop at the barrel and relax on their own.Understand what their job is.What I do is first time they do this at the first barrrel I set a bit rub their mane let them relax..And I get off.Thats their reward for understanding and agreeing with you that day.
You dont forget to breath.
Dont pull so much.You done all your part, now help them do their part.
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Yep, on most horses I total agree with you Clampitt. This mare I have I have had since she was an unstarted 3 year old, she is now 12. Took lessons on cows with her trying to get some rate, went to more Ed Wright Clinics than you could shake a stick at. When you did 5 patterns in a row at the clinic you would get rate on the 6th one immediately following them at speed. 2 hours later you were back to square 1. She sees open dirt in front of her and she's running the home stretch of the Belmont, barrel or no barrel. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | I run free runners. I actually prefer them... I've ridden both free runners and push style and my riding style just works best with free runners.
Currently I am running an ottb when doesn't have a lick of natural rate to her. She IS well balanced and uses herself extremely well for a TB but she is still a racehorse in alot of ways. She's been off the track for almost two years and on the pattern for a year. She is alot of work but as long as she is ridden properly, she is a fairly solid 1D/2D mare without being pushed.
Anyway, some strategies I use in the practice pen and in my runs are;
- corkscrews... but instead of coming out of the small turn and then letting her rest, I melt down and rest her in the small turn in order to make her crave the turn. THIS exercise has been SO beneficial for her.
- TONS of rate!!! I never let her turn a barrel without rating! Even if I'm at a small jackpot, if she wants to push, I'll set her down. The only time Ill be leniant on this is if I have a ton of money up and then I'll let her finish a run... but I will fix it for next time.
- shortening and legnthening exercises.. all the time, part of my daily routine with her.
- lots and lots and lots of stopping and backing up -- with just my body. I want her doing it as i'm thinking it because I know in a run she's likely not going to be as quick on the draw and if I need to get grabby I want her soft.
- In a run -- I don't ever feed her the reins. I keep constant contact. This eliminates the reaction when/if I need to set her a little harder into a turn.
ETA: Also, I work her fast through her drills at home. I don't do a ton of pattern work but we work our corkscrews, shortening lengthening, stops, etc. fast. Same with in my pre run warm ups. The easiest part of her world is making the run, so she craves it and wants to be correct :)
Edited by jschipper 2016-05-04 3:38 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | run n rate - 2016-05-03 5:23 PM
My little free runner was awesome at slow work, trot, lope, 1/2 speed, fantastic. Add speed anywhere and she lost her focus or what she was running for. Seriously the best thing I ever did was read a post from Diane Guinn about the Quick Stop bridle. I put off doing it for over a year after reading her reply on a post, even though it made sense I still wanted to try to do it with training instead of a "gimmick" or a band aid. A year later we were still spinning our wheels, gorgeous fluid slow work or 1/2 speed, anything faster and everything and I mean everything fell apart. Bought the quick stop and in 3 days of work she could cruise thru and 90% of the time when I asked for "rate" I got it, and I mean 90% in her competition bridle, only used the Quick stop one time at speed and havne't ever had to use it at speed on the pattern again. And got the rate correctly, nose in, broke at the poll, ribs lifted and her rear end up under her with a "yes mam!" It allowed me to be quieter with my hands, quit begging for rate/slow/please turn... which allowed her to separate me pulling on her becAsue I was terrified she was going to run by AGAIN and me lifting asking her to rate. In one month she went from running the slowest time of anyone that hadn't knocked a barrel down in a particular arena to pulling a check in the 3D at a larger 250+ entry race at the same arena. I still use it on her from time to time in my general riding to keep her honest and every once in a while I will do a slow work time only in it on a standard pattern outdoor pen to remind her that if she would like to run like a cat with its tail on fire she will need to rate and turn a tub.
And sorry, its the Fast Stop, not the quick stop...
This is exactly how my gelding is. He's got rate when going slow but add speed and he loses focus. You can't check him because he gets incredibly bracey and stiff. I took the tiedown off and put a stop n turn on him tonight bc of your post and we cruised through a nice set tonight. He had the best first barrel to date and was super snappy on second and third. I was able to check him a smidge and he didn't get bracey. I'm hoping this is the piece to the puzzle on figuring out what works for him! |
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 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | When I started my gelding I did a lot of slow work. Stopping at my spot at each barrel. I was hesitant to let him run hard to the first, and 8 years later all I do is sit on him and he takes care of me. He doesn't run past anything and I need to be a little more agreesive. Love my Dunny. |
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Veteran
Posts: 178
Location: IL | Great discussion! Thank you for all the help! I am relieved that I'm not the only person who has done my homework and proper slow work, and is still struggling with getting with my mare. A few of these things I am already doing, but I think the rest will really get me trusting/helping her more instead of remaining in "training mode" all the time. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-05 8:29 PM
run n rate - 2016-05-03 5:23 PM
My little free runner was awesome at slow work, trot, lope, 1/2 speed, fantastic. Add speed anywhere and she lost her focus or what she was running for. Seriously the best thing I ever did was read a post from Diane Guinn about the Quick Stop bridle. I put off doing it for over a year after reading her reply on a post, even though it made sense I still wanted to try to do it with training instead of a "gimmick" or a band aid. A year later we were still spinning our wheels, gorgeous fluid slow work or 1/2 speed, anything faster and everything and I mean everything fell apart. Bought the quick stop and in 3 days of work she could cruise thru and 90% of the time when I asked for "rate" I got it, and I mean 90% in her competition bridle, only used the Quick stop one time at speed and havne't ever had to use it at speed on the pattern again. And got the rate correctly, nose in, broke at the poll, ribs lifted and her rear end up under her with a "yes mam!" It allowed me to be quieter with my hands, quit begging for rate/slow/please turn... which allowed her to separate me pulling on her becAsue I was terrified she was going to run by AGAIN and me lifting asking her to rate. In one month she went from running the slowest time of anyone that hadn't knocked a barrel down in a particular arena to pulling a check in the 3D at a larger 250+ entry race at the same arena. I still use it on her from time to time in my general riding to keep her honest and every once in a while I will do a slow work time only in it on a standard pattern outdoor pen to remind her that if she would like to run like a cat with its tail on fire she will need to rate and turn a tub.
And sorry, its the Fast Stop, not the quick stop...
This is exactly how my gelding is. He's got rate when going slow but add speed and he loses focus. You can't check him because he gets incredibly bracey and stiff. I took the tiedown off and put a stop n turn on him tonight bc of your post and we cruised through a nice set tonight. He had the best first barrel to date and was super snappy on second and third. I was able to check him a smidge and he didn't get bracey. I'm hoping this is the piece to the puzzle on figuring out what works for him!
Glad it helped, like I said, just really be aware of release in these type bridles especially and hopefully it transfer to your horse in their regular bridle like it did for my mare.
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Expert
Posts: 1414
| If we're talking about a finished, seasoned free runner - my tip is to say a prayer on the way to the first barrel. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | "Do you happen to have a link to purchase this bridle? And what exercises have you used to keep her collected and turning and not blowing by the barrel? What do you use in competition? Do you use a tie down? Sorry for all the questions but TIA!"
Sorry, I totally missed the other questions other than the link to purchase, LOL!!! As far as exercises to keep her collected and turning and not blowing by we did all the ones we had for YEARS in the every other bit I had tried on her, stop at your rate point, walk the turn, stop on the backside of the barrel And back in an arc to the rate point to really try to work "shortest stride here" with her making sure she was collected up in my hands and legs and reaching under herself. We had even done the stop and soak multiple times headed to a barrel to try to find the "relax" button, really the only thing before the Fast Stop that worked was counter arcs because it naturally sets their hip and brings their body into collection in order to do it. We did all those drills again with the Fast Stop starting at the walk more because I was terrified I'd grab her head and flip her over because she is a very reactive mare, light until you hit speed. I used the Pretzel for a competition bridle though my second year at Pendleton a freind had borrowed it and didnt' get it back to me so we went with a 2 piece twisted locked Ed bit and we were totally fine but I did warm her up in the Fast Stop :-) I aint stupid, LOL!!! Nor was I interested in going on a trail ride after hauling 12 hours for it. No tie down, I had tried the head setter tie down a few years ago with her because when she didnt' rate she would get her head up in the turns, put her nose to her chest and stay long strided which sored her up pretty good every time, we had also tried the german martingale, helped some but really the problem was just not getting a true rate/collected position. Slowing down is not rating especially with one that is long strided and tends to lose their brain when you hit the go button. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Clampitt gave the perfect example of how to teach rate! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | run n rate - 2016-05-12 11:26 AM "Do you happen to have a link to purchase this bridle? And what exercises have you used to keep her collected and turning and not blowing by the barrel? What do you use in competition? Do you use a tie down? Sorry for all the questions but TIA!" Sorry, I totally missed the other questions other than the link to purchase, LOL!!! As far as exercises to keep her collected and turning and not blowing by we did all the ones we had for YEARS in the every other bit I had tried on her, stop at your rate point, walk the turn, stop on the backside of the barrel And back in an arc to the rate point to really try to work "shortest stride here" with her making sure she was collected up in my hands and legs and reaching under herself. We had even done the stop and soak multiple times headed to a barrel to try to find the "relax" button, really the only thing before the Fast Stop that worked was counter arcs because it naturally sets their hip and brings their body into collection in order to do it. We did all those drills again with the Fast Stop starting at the walk more because I was terrified I'd grab her head and flip her over because she is a very reactive mare, light until you hit speed. I used the Pretzel for a competition bridle though my second year at Pendleton a freind had borrowed it and didnt' get it back to me so we went with a 2 piece twisted locked Ed bit and we were totally fine but I did warm her up in the Fast Stop :-) I aint stupid, LOL!!! Nor was I interested in going on a trail ride after hauling 12 hours for it. No tie down, I had tried the head setter tie down a few years ago with her because when she didnt' rate she would get her head up in the turns, put her nose to her chest and stay long strided which sored her up pretty good every time, we had also tried the german martingale, helped some but really the problem was just not getting a true rate/collected position. Slowing down is not rating especially with one that is long strided and tends to lose their brain when you hit the go button.
Ummmm I think we have IDENTICAL twins  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1395
Location: Missouri | livexlovexrodeo - 2016-05-03 5:20 PM
Stay off their face. It's terrifying and feels like you're on a runaway and I usually gave mine a good bump if he really felt like he wasn't listening but other than that I had to stay off his face or he would get really bracey and blow his turns. He had impeccable slow work though and always anticipated his rate points when I did slow work with him so I knew during a run I had to just trust him and stay off of him.
This sounds a lot like my mare! But yes, if I don't stay off her face, she braces and blows past the turn about a stride or so. If I trust her and leave her head alone, she's great. I've learned to use my seat a lot with her. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I school my free-running monster in a smooth snaffle and a running martengale, so in my opinion, no bit is going to be a substitute for good training.
I really found that spirals and shutting her down helped. Say, if I'm going to lope at the barrel, I'll let her lope a circle around it, and break down to a long trot, and gradually shut her down to a calm walk on a loose rein where I only have to bump her with my leg to keep that bend around the barrel and hip in. As soon as I get that nice walk with her head down, I'll leave that barrel and move on to the next.
Things are also much worse the more I get all up in her business. Sometimes, I forget that she's a big horse with a big motor and a big stride and I'm asking her to lope like a little horse with a smaller motor. It's kind of not fair to ask her to do that. That's what I find so intimidating about those types of horses! |
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Tips on free runners