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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
   
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | Any ideas on why a 9yo mare would randomly flip over after asking her to lope off? Starting off with one day randomly kicking out after a flying lead change and being all around miserable. Called chiro, got her adjusted a couple days later. Was out pretty badly. 5 days later (had my wisdom teeth taken out), warm up, everything is fine and ask her to lope off, she refuses. Ask again, and she goes up and I know what's happening and I somewhat I got somewhat out of the way. Bring back to chiro, he's as baffled as I am. A little sore, but nothing that screams I am going to flip myself over. Also completely looked over saddle and tack- everything was normal.
Take horse to vet this morning. Explained everything to my vet and we went over everything- teeth, repro, bloodwork, vision, anything we could think of and nothing screamed a reason.
Is there anything else I'm not thinking of? This is completely out of character for this mare. Completely out of character so this does have me concerned.
Edited by bccanchaser16 2016-03-18 1:59 PM
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | I have a horse that went from being perfect to refusing to move, bucking fits and reading up.... Finally figured out that she has a bad case of kissing spine. I would get her spine x-rayed.
Good luck!! |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | definately a issue.. does your bit have any sharp points on it ? i always check mine.. and run my fingers over where the mouthpiece connects .. sometimes there are sharp areas..
Horses dont just flip over.. so there is a reason.. keep searching |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-08 9:30 PM definately a issue.. does your bit have any sharp points on it ? i always check mine.. and run my fingers over where the mouthpiece connects .. sometimes there are sharp areas..
Horses dont just flip over.. so there is a reason.. keep searching
I agree to what Bibs is saying also make sure the bit is not pinching either. And check for Kissing spine, horses are so scary when they flip over, hope that you can find the cause of this, be very carefull.  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Yes definitely a reason! Kissing spines, PSSM (little late in age for that but I like to be thorough), something with a tooth (not sure if you saw the episode of Untamed and Uncut but it was the same story as yours!), something under the pad pinching or sharp and just a fluke thing, stung??? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I would start with ulcers. Kissing spines could be a problem also EPM. Could be teeth. Personally I would say that given the information it could be anything and a trip to the vet is in order.
Edited by streakysox 2016-03-08 10:57 PM
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Full lameness exam first. I would get x-rays of the back - cheap insurance to rule out kissing spine. My mare acted completely out of character when she was diagnosed. She wouldn't flip over but she would buck and throw fits. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Bibliafarm - 2016-03-08 9:30 PM
definately a issue.. does your bit have any sharp points on it ? i always check mine.. and run my fingers over where the mouthpiece connects .. sometimes there are sharp areas..
Horses dont just flip over.. so there is a reason.. keep searching
I agree! Where was she sore when your chiro worked on her the first time and second time? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I would check out Ulcers... There are pressure points that when they have ulcers becomes extremely sore.
Here's a video that shows it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr05hMmLCY4
Edited by FlyingJT 2016-03-09 9:53 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Did you scope her? I know this maybe reaching, but maybe she has a lazy or paralyzed flapper. Having trouble breathing is very unsettling. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: IA | Okay, I know this sounds TOTALLY crazy, but you are at the same point I was with a mare I had raised who started this--only it wasn't when I asked to lope, she would get this insane, black look across her face/eyes (if you've ever seen it, you will know what I am talking about) and flip over.
She could be standing quietly at the trailer, riding her, there was no real way to know it was going to happen until about 15-30seconds before it happened. Riding her she would ball up, and on the ground I'd see that look, and know to clear the hell out. She would throw herself and get parallel to the ground, and drop on her back. Broke two saddles that way.
I did chiro, teeth, ultrasounds, checked equipment, vets, universities, you name it, I did it. This was a 5 year old mare I had raised, ridden in a windstorm not more than 5 months before, and I could not trust this horse to not try and pancake herself.
I finally called Kathy George, the animal psychic. I KNOW, I KNOW, but it was about $25 for a 30 minute reading, and I had already wasted more money than I cared to tally up on this horse.
Well, this horse really didn't have anything to say, just went on about seeing straight lines, going straight lines, that's what she wanted to do. Well heck, that didn't help. So I had more time in my session, and I asked about my other horses.....Boy, did I get an earful! Keep in mind, these are either full or half sisters, and had been penned with her for 4 years. They "said" all she did was complain, whine and nothing was ever good enough. That she wanted everything her way or no way, and she drove them nuts. So I asked a few things about each of them, and did find some very helpful information that made a big difference for each of them as well. She told me things about them that nobody else could have known, and when I did the things she told me about, made the changes---what a world of difference.
I gave that mare one more chance, tried everything, and she flipped over on my husband. How he got clear is amazing to me, but he wouldn't let me put a bullet in her right then. I ended up trading her to a friend that had always wanted her--with FULL disclosure---and they got along fine.
The reason for telling this long story is that you don't have anything to lose, but lots of people have had luck calling Kathy George about their horses. Maybe it will help, maybe not, but when you figure $25-$50 for her to "talk" to your horse, compared to thousands in vet bills, x rays, MRI, etc......it may be worth a shot.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Have you changed saddle pads? I put a new one on my mare and she started kicking out and bucked. I went from a wool blend to foam. She hated it. I switched back and she didn't do it again.
Or using a super old one? After a pad breaks down it can start pinching.
Do you use a treeless saddle by chance? Ive had a few people tell me it can start pinching after breaking it in. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | GoMistyGo - 2016-03-08 8:42 PM I have a horse that went from being perfect to refusing to move, bucking fits and reading up.... Finally figured out that she has a bad case of kissing spine. I would get her spine x-rayed. Good luck!!
Agreed |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | How does she behave when asked to lope during ground work, unsaddled?
I believe she needs a full exam from a vet, as there are many different possible causes and it looks like it may not be somethine a chiro can fix. |
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| Mine did the exact same thing but when asked to trot off, ended up having kissing spine....now that we have gotten that sorted out, he is a totally different horse! |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | spitzh - 2016-03-09 8:46 AM Have you changed saddle pads? I put a new one on my mare and she started kicking out and bucked. I went from a wool blend to foam. She hated it. I switched back and she didn't do it again. Or using a super old one? After a pad breaks down it can start pinching. Do you use a treeless saddle by chance? Ive had a few people tell me it can start pinching after breaking it in.
Nope, no change in anything for saddle pad or pad. 5 Star pad and ride in a Meleta Brown saddle. |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | BigStarBound - 2016-03-09 9:00 AM How does she behave when asked to lope during ground work, unsaddled? I believe she needs a full exam from a vet, as there are many different possible causes and it looks like it may not be somethine a chiro can fix.
She's acts completely fine when asked to lope on a lunge line.
I've already taken her to the vet :) Bloodwork, teeth, vision, ultrasounded ovaries- came back all normal. I still think something is wrong so that's why I came back to BHW.
And for someone else who said ulcers- asked my vet about that and he said short of scoping which he doesn't really recommend for this horse, he doesn't think she has them. I have treated before with UlcerGuard and THE GastroPlus and after all that, she was a totally different horse but she's not displaying any of the symptoms she had when she had ulcers. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Neuro? |
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | bccanchaser16 - 2016-03-09 12:42 PM
BigStarBound - 2016-03-09 9:00 AM How does she behave when asked to lope during ground work, unsaddled? I believe she needs a full exam from a vet, as there are many different possible causes and it looks like it may not be somethine a chiro can fix.
She's acts completely fine when asked to lope on a lunge line. I've already taken her to the vet : ) Bloodwork, teeth, vision, ultrasounded ovaries- came back all normal. I still think something is wrong so that's why I came back to BHW. And for someone else who said ulcers- asked my vet about that and he said short of scoping which he doesn't really recommend for this horse, he doesn't think she has them. I have treated before with UlcerGuard and THE GastroPlus and after all that, she was a totally different horse but she's not displaying any of the symptoms she had when she had ulcers.
Been there, bought the t-shirt. Spent $180 on x-rays, found out it was Kissing Spine on my mare. Wished I would have started there first. |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | I agree with Checking for Kissing Spine. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I'm with Murphy. I've had 3 vets, 4 farriers, and 2 chiros tell me my horse was fine. After over $1200 and many tears I FINALLY ended up with a vet that suspected kissing spine. X-rays showed she did in fact have kissing spine.
I would spend the money and x-ray her whole back. At this point I'd rather x-ray every horse before going through that ordeal again! |
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Veteran
Posts: 160
| Can I suggest getting her teeth checked by a real, certified, practicing, exclusive equine dentist that specializes in power floating? After over $1,000 in vet bills with one of mine, I learned that vets often do not cut it when looking at teeth. A dentist who works with teeth for hours day in and day out as well as going to school and learning equine dentistry exclusively for 2 years has a much more educated and groomed eye than most vets do. I believe they would be more likely to see an issue than a vet would. Just my $0.02. I hope you find out whats going on! |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | Update- NOT kissing spine. Went to a new vet I've never used before and we did xray and she was as surprised as me that there was nothing concerning with her back. We are going to treat for ulcers and then if there's no change, we will inject SI. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | is there any trainer around to get on her.. and see what happens |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7617
Location: Dubach, LA | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-18 8:07 PM is there any trainer around to get on her.. and see what happens Everybody's a trainer.
Edited by CanCan 2016-03-18 9:40 PM
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I guess my point was to see if its something she is doing or a good trainer could possibly feel what is going on with teh mare.. |
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Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-18 7:48 PM I guess my point was to see if its something she is doing or a good trainer could possibly feel what is going on with teh mare..
That has been considered but my vet and I feel that we want to eliminate the pain first, before going there. I have no problems admitting that I may be the problem (although I really doubt I am, because all I'm doing is asking her to lope), but we do feel it's more physical at this point. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | Did you test for PSSM1? Biopsy for PSSM2? The age is right for her to have issues. What were the CK/AST levels in her bloodwork? |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I would test for epm.our friends horse had bucking fits before he was diagnosed. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | I agree with the EPM suggestion. We had a 10 year old mare suddenly start kicking at things that were not there. Never a lovey mare, but became angry, and just grouchy. She continued to run well, but did start balking at the gate, and had NEVER done anything like that.
Then she went crazy in the trailer and kicked the back wall rubber off the trailer. We did hocks, Chiro, tested for all kinds of things. She actually cracked a bone in her hock on the far outside like "point".
After time off and healing, she went crazy in the trailer again and kicked the back door off the trailer . . . OFF THE TRAILER. It was holding on by 1 bent hinge. The other two were broken completely and the rubber was gone, the metal actually broken and she sliced her leg on the exposed metal.
Long story short, we finally took advice from Chiro, and treated for EPM. We did ReBalance, full course and saw results IMMEDIATLY. We followed 6 months later with another and now treat annually.
There are so many things it could be, but EPM is one and it responded very well for us.
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Member
Posts: 36
| Treat for EPM and hind gut ulcers. I had a horse that was fine on lunge line but when saddled would buck, bite at my feet and was real grouchy. Treated him for EPM and hind gut ulcers and is fine now. |
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Horse flipped over- update