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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
  
Location: In The Snow, AZ | So I bought a 6 year old, OTTB gelding towards the end of last year. He came out of Phx, AZ. Brought up to Flagstaff. He was slicked out, but seemed to acclimate to the cold fine with the help of a heavy blanket and warm beet pulp/ rice bran mashes. He ended up growing a decent winter coat.
In the time I've had him, I've treated for ulcers. Had a body balancer and chiro out to work out some issues he was having. Had his teeth floated. Wormed. Sand cleared. Etc.
He is being fed 3-4 flakes of good alfalfa a day, grass throughout the day as well. And a nightly bucket of 2# rice bran, a large scoop of beet pulp, highest dose of cool calories and THE MM. He isn't putting on weight and seems scraggly and Ribby. His top line is nonexistent. He hasn't been worked lately due to my having a surgery.
My other two are losing their winter coats, but he's hanging on to his. Two times in a week and a half, he has coliced. We've been having a bout of warm weather, not sure if it's due to that??? It was my neighbors suggestion. He starts sweating, labored breathing. Stares at his belly. Stretches out. Paws. Lays down any chance he gets. No gut sounds. The whole nine.
A dose of Banamine, a tube of electrolytes and several "in and outs" in the trailers and he will start pooping and drinking water again. But I don't want to be dealing with this all summer. I don't mind high maintainance horses, but I don't need a sick horse every week. And quite frankly, I can't afford it, nor would I want to. I spoke with the vet and he said that its minimum $500 to deal with a colic.
Open to opinions and suggestions on what could help or what may be going on in his body. Previous owner/breeder said he had never coliced in her care. And has been healthy as a horse....ha |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
 
| The first thing that comes to mind is ulcers. I would get him on a low starch feed. I feed renew gold but there are others. I would treat for ulcers both fore and hind gut. Omeprozole will not get hind gut ulcers. I use Oxygen Ulcer,but THE has one also. Then keep.on maintenance, like oxymax. Feed good alfalfa and Timothy. Coastal hay is bad for causing impactions. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I would start with some Diet changes before I added more stuff....Id remove the Cool Calories or rice bran...as much as I love the stuff it is high in fat which I love but some horses cant process that much and get belly aches bloating , gas, cramps and sometimes Loose stools....and you are giving max dose.. right now his diet is on overload..... id not think heat would do it .. if hes drinking ..
beet pulp is high in fiber and I love it as well.. but then again some horses cant handle it. id start making diet changes and see if it helps ... also with spring here ,grass may contribute..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-03-10 9:07 AM
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I also want to add, my sister in laws horse just died two weeks ago from colic, even after vet intervention, tubing, oiling and getting an all clear. As well as my neighbors gelding just went thru a bout of it as well.
We feed Timothy grass. No Bermuda, etc. I treated ulcers with THE GastroPLUS.
He is drinking well, and that's where my confusion has been. The cool calories and rice bran I am feeding to help put on some needed weight. I'm willing to cut one or the other, but I feel like he needs something with added fat.... We have tractor supply who claims to carry Renew Gold. But they only have one bag every other week or so. We've talked with management, who promises to order more, but they haven't had it consistently enough to be worth feeding it. It's even difficult to get rice bran any more. Last time we ordered it, they ordered the regular, non stableized, which I don't like feeding. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | any grain?
Id try cutting down the dose of the cool calories.. I loved it and it packed on wieght to my 30 yr old.. but it does say can cause those issues and have had high fat diets cause them as well.. I try to balance it to one or the other.. but not both.. good luck .. belly aches are no fun.. and might not have anything to do with it but Id start with that to..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-03-10 9:17 AM
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | No grain at all. I think I may cut the cool calories for now and see if that changes anything. I really appreciate your opinion, and it's worth a shot.
You wouldn't recommend any sort of daily electrolyte mix? My endurance riding neighbor makes up her own with salt, lite salt and crushed tums or something rather. She highly encouraged it to help with any depletion. But I've never done that before and never had an issue. And I've always wanted to keep things simple. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | we just use free choice but we pack the paste in heavy showing sesason on the go.. There are several good ones .. it gives them a boost.. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Do either of the horses that died eat the same feed/hay? It would be better to feed nothing going but alfalfa hay than to feed the unstabilized rice bran. I would also soak his hay. That will help keep his gut moist. How long ago did you treat for ulcers? The Gastro Plus may not have worked on this particular horse. Not every product works on every horse.Dr. DePaula has a video on your tube showing how to check for ulcers. It might be worth it to watch it and then go over your horse. |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | No, my sister in law lives in Paulden, which is a different city. My neighbor and I buy hay from different feed stores as well. So all three are from different feed sources. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| He is young, but have you considered cushings? Although it generally affects older horses it can be present in young ones as well. Spring time is usually when symptoms start to become present AND is the best time to test for it is now.
Edited by cyount2009 2016-03-10 10:46 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| The ONLY thing that turned my gelding around was Cur Ost products. His top line was horrible and every one thought he was an old horse, but he is just 12. I took him off all processed feeds. I have him on Omni alfalafa cubes, grass hay and Stomach and Adapt from Cur Ost. He is a different horse today. What I learned was that while he didn't have foregut ulcers he DID have hindgut ulcers/digestive upset. His digestive system was a wreck. Now that I have fixed that he is doing great. He has a really good topline and has lost his "hay belly". |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I've researched cushings, and the only symptom he really has is abnormal shedding. But again, this is his first winter in a colder climate. He was thin when he came. He hasn't lost any weight. Just not really gaining.
I would love to try Curost. It just seems so dang expensive. And I seem to have a hard time finding a concrete price/month/horse. If I just feed the one product to one horse, how much is it? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| ~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:17 AM
I've researched cushings, and the only symptom he really has is abnormal shedding. But again, this is his first winter in a colder climate. He was thin when he came. He hasn't lost any weight. Just not really gaining.
I would love to try Curost. It just seems so dang expensive. And I seem to have a hard time finding a concrete price/month/horse. If I just feed the one product to one horse, how much is it?
I agree it is expensive. I would just go to secondvet.com and ask Dr. Schell about your horse's specific problems. I did start with just Stomach and Adapt and then moved on to only the Total because my horse has several problems. It may take a day or so for him to get back to you, but he will definitely get back to you. I want to say the Stomach was 75 and the Adapt was 24 dollars. I used them for 2 months before I went on to anything else. My horses had been having trouble for several years. I feel so bad that it took me so long to figure him out. Good luck on your search. I will say that my feed bill went down a lot even though I have to travel 2 hours to get my Omni cubes. |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | GLP - 2016-03-10 9:29 AM
~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:17 AM
I've researched cushings, and the only symptom he really has is abnormal shedding. But again, this is his first winter in a colder climate. He was thin when he came. He hasn't lost any weight. Just not really gaining.
I would love to try Curost. It just seems so dang expensive. And I seem to have a hard time finding a concrete price/month/horse. If I just feed the one product to one horse, how much is it?
I agree it is expensive. I would just go to secondvet.com and ask Dr. Schell about your horse's specific problems. I did start with just Stomach and Adapt and then moved on to only the Total because my horse has several problems. It may take a day or so for him to get back to you, but he will definitely get back to you. I want to say the Stomach was 75 and the Adapt was 24 dollars. I used them for 2 months before I went on to anything else. My horses had been having trouble for several years. I feel so bad that it took me so long to figure him out. Good luck on your search. I will say that my feed bill went down a lot even though I have to travel 2 hours to get my Omni cubes.
Ok, so does each bag last one month? That's where the site isn't specific. It shows cost for each supplement, but not how long each one will last. I'd be willing to try it and will email with my specific issues. It's hard to want to dish it out when my local OTTB owners say that the weight issues and shedding issues are normal for them. But I hate seeing him look so poor.
I'll also see if any local stores have Omni cubes. I know I've come across several threads mentioning them. But have no idea what it is. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| ~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:35 AM
GLP - 2016-03-10 9:29 AM
~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:17 AM
I've researched cushings, and the only symptom he really has is abnormal shedding. But again, this is his first winter in a colder climate. He was thin when he came. He hasn't lost any weight. Just not really gaining.
I would love to try Curost. It just seems so dang expensive. And I seem to have a hard time finding a concrete price/month/horse. If I just feed the one product to one horse, how much is it?
I agree it is expensive. I would just go to secondvet.com and ask Dr. Schell about your horse's specific problems. I did start with just Stomach and Adapt and then moved on to only the Total because my horse has several problems. It may take a day or so for him to get back to you, but he will definitely get back to you. I want to say the Stomach was 75 and the Adapt was 24 dollars. I used them for 2 months before I went on to anything else. My horses had been having trouble for several years. I feel so bad that it took me so long to figure him out. Good luck on your search. I will say that my feed bill went down a lot even though I have to travel 2 hours to get my Omni cubes.
Ok, so does each bag last one month? That's where the site isn't specific. It shows cost for each supplement, but not how long each one will last. I'd be willing to try it and will email with my specific issues. It's hard to want to dish it out when my local OTTB owners say that the weight issues and shedding issues are normal for them. But I hate seeing him look so poor.
I'll also see if any local stores have Omni cubes. I know I've come across several threads mentioning them. But have no idea what it is.
There is a loading dose on the Stomach so the first bag lasted for 2 weeks, I think. So for one month, I'd order 2 bags of it. The bag will last a month when not using the loading dose. I can't really remember if I did a loading dose of the Adapt. But there is a small discount on price when you buy 2 bags of one product at one time.
Dr. Schell works with OTTBs so he will have a good idea of what you are dealing with. 
As for the Omni cubes, they are high country alfalfa, small amount of whole oats and smaller amount of whole flaxseed.
Tdove on here is a dealer for Omni and he can give you a break down of how much oats and flaxseed per 20 lbs of the cubes. It is a really small amount. I want to say feeding 8- 10 lbs of cubes has like 1 to 1 1/2 lbs of oats and 4 oz. of flaxseed.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| ~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:35 AM
GLP - 2016-03-10 9:29 AM
~BINGO~ - 2016-03-10 11:17 AM
I've researched cushings, and the only symptom he really has is abnormal shedding. But again, this is his first winter in a colder climate. He was thin when he came. He hasn't lost any weight. Just not really gaining.
I would love to try Curost. It just seems so dang expensive. And I seem to have a hard time finding a concrete price/month/horse. If I just feed the one product to one horse, how much is it?
I agree it is expensive. I would just go to secondvet.com and ask Dr. Schell about your horse's specific problems. I did start with just Stomach and Adapt and then moved on to only the Total because my horse has several problems. It may take a day or so for him to get back to you, but he will definitely get back to you. I want to say the Stomach was 75 and the Adapt was 24 dollars. I used them for 2 months before I went on to anything else. My horses had been having trouble for several years. I feel so bad that it took me so long to figure him out. Good luck on your search. I will say that my feed bill went down a lot even though I have to travel 2 hours to get my Omni cubes.
Ok, so does each bag last one month? That's where the site isn't specific. It shows cost for each supplement, but not how long each one will last. I'd be willing to try it and will email with my specific issues. It's hard to want to dish it out when my local OTTB owners say that the weight issues and shedding issues are normal for them. But I hate seeing him look so poor.
I'll also see if any local stores have Omni cubes. I know I've come across several threads mentioning them. But have no idea what it is.
I can't get the Omni cubes where I'm at so instead I started feeding the best quality alfalfa I can get my hands on, while oats, and flax. I've also just recently added Forco to two horses diets and I can honestly say my horses have NEVER looked better. I have a appendix mare that is like the OTTB horse you described, she always got long, dull hair in the winter and took for ever to shed out. She had a hay belly, but you could feel her ribs and her top line needed filled in. Now on this feeding program with minimal riding right now, she is starting to get fit, muscle up, and looking like a race horse! I am really impressed with this mixture!
Also wanted to say, I had my horses feet done last night and my farrier commented on how good they looked; they looked good before but really have a bloom now.
Edited by veintiocho 2016-03-10 11:59 AM
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I looked up distributors and we don't have one here. So I guess I would need to see if I can find the other products. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | I had a gelding a few years ago that was giving me small bouts of colic about every other month. Most were mild enough that I could give him a dose of banamine and he would be better an hour later. a couple I called the vet to tube. I did 2 things and they stopped I am not sure which one helped or if it was a combo of the 2 but..... I took him off of beetpulp. and I treated with a full 30 day treatment of the THE gastroplus. And I did the fast for a couple hours, mix, squirt in mouth like wormer, and fast for another hour. It was a pain the butt but after that I owned him for another year and he never coliced on me again. So it was worth the effort. In fact the hard part was actually catching the little bugger after a week or so.
Those would be my first 2 steps on any similar symptoms if the colics don't seem to be full blown impaction type colics.
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | If he came from AZ he may have sand colic. Listen to his gut. Does it sound like ocean waves? If so treating with pysllium should do the trick. Good luck. |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Picture from today. Yuck.
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | when was he dewormed? what did the previous owner feed? my thoughts are that alfalfa could bee too rich for him. I had a hprse that colicked everytime he ate alfalfa. |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | When I was worried about our old gelding last summer, I finally signed up for a month of FeedXL. The diet I came to off that literally saved his life, and he looks good now. I thought was feeding him enough, but it wasn't quite enough and the mix wasn't right. It was nice to get concrete info as well, rather than "I tried this" and "I did that". You can also import prices and it will tell you a monthly cost for the mix. Just a thought, hope you find a good answer! |
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