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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
  
Location: USA | I've got a gelding that slow works great around the pattern. He stays collected and transitions down for the turn. He's a free runner to the first and I'm having trouble getting him to rate down and stay collected. If I only go in there to the first at 3/4 speed, he'll rate and turn it just fine. But if I ask for anymore speed, he's got no brakes. I've gone back to the basics with him, and everything is good - he breaks at the poll, moves off leg, picks up leads, disengage shoulder and hip when asked - it's all there. but you ask for speed and his head goes in the air, he won't round his back and get collected and slow down. It's like he forgets his training or something. He's been vetted, teeth were done about a month ago, chiro is coming out next week. He doesn't act sore - just acts like a terd.
I ride him in a dogbone simplicity. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-15 8:05 PM
I've got a gelding that slow works great around the pattern. He stays collected and transitions down for the turn. He's a free runner to the first and I'm having trouble getting him to rate down and stay collected. If I only go in there to the first at 3/4 speed, he'll rate and turn it just fine. But if I ask for anymore speed, he's got no brakes. I've gone back to the basics with him, and everything is good - he breaks at the poll, moves off leg, picks up leads, disengage shoulder and hip when asked - it's all there. but you ask for speed and his head goes in the air, he won't round his back and get collected and slow down. It's like he forgets his training or something. He's been vetted, teeth were done about a month ago, chiro is coming out next week. He doesn't act sore - just acts like a terd.
I ride him in a dogbone simplicity.
If you have light hands I would try a grasshopper bit with a chain mouth |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | try doing Dena's flower power drill that she put in barrel horse news. But add speed through the center. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Does he only do it at the first barrel?
If so that might be something that he does for a little while until he matures and you can run him harder. I'm assuming you can high lope to the first (correct me if I'm wrong) but for the mean time you might just have to get as close to the timer as possible then ask for his comfortable pace to the first barrel. You might not feel like you're going the fastest there but it's going to be faster that your horse running past it.
Remember to also try and make the first barrel a good place to be. When you're done riding him, cool him off and get off of him at the first barrel. Give him a cookie and loosen his cinch.  |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Carefully review how you're setting up your pattern. If you're going into first too straight, where you're leaving first, because that sets up your second, etc etc. Young horses spend a good bit of time lost picking up speed, they need very consistent cues and help. If you're setting up the pattern wrong and putting him in a bind, this will magnify the problem. A simplicity really doesn't offer much rate, you might look into a different bit, but first, look at your pattern. Make sure you're not putting him into a bind where he HAS to step past in order to make the turn. Add all that to an already free runner, and I can see your frustration. This might be a good time for a clinic. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | cecollins0811 - 2016-03-17 7:49 AM
Does he only do it at the first barrel?
If so that might be something that he does for a little while until he matures and you can run him harder. I'm assuming you can high lope to the first (correct me if I'm wrong ) but for the mean time you might just have to get as close to the timer as possible then ask for his comfortable pace to the first barrel. You might not feel like you're going the fastest there but it's going to be faster that your horse running past it.
Remember to also try and make the first barrel a good place to be. When you're done riding him, cool him off and get off of him at the first barrel. Give him a cookie and loosen his cinch.
This is what I've been doing - lol it's just slooooow progress. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | classicpotatochip - 2016-03-17 10:21 AM
Carefully review how you're setting up your pattern. If you're going into first too straight, where you're leaving first, because that sets up your second, etc etc. Young horses spend a good bit of time lost picking up speed, they need very consistent cues and help. If you're setting up the pattern wrong and putting him in a bind, this will magnify the problem. A simplicity really doesn't offer much rate, you might look into a different bit, but first, look at your pattern. Make sure you're not putting him into a bind where he HAS to step past in order to make the turn. Add all that to an already free runner, and I can see your frustration. This might be a good time for a clinic.
No I'm not going in to first too straight. And regarding the bit, it's the only one I've tried that he responds well too. He doesn't handle curb pressure and anything stronger he gets real front endy on. He's a pickle to say the least |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | Runninonthebuck - 2016-03-15 8:31 PM
try doing Dena's flower power drill that she put in barrel horse news. But add speed through the center.
I'll have to look this drill up. Thanks! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | cheryl makofka - 2016-03-15 8:10 PM
Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-15 8:05 PM
I've got a gelding that slow works great around the pattern. He stays collected and transitions down for the turn. He's a free runner to the first and I'm having trouble getting him to rate down and stay collected. If I only go in there to the first at 3/4 speed, he'll rate and turn it just fine. But if I ask for anymore speed, he's got no brakes. I've gone back to the basics with him, and everything is good - he breaks at the poll, moves off leg, picks up leads, disengage shoulder and hip when asked - it's all there. but you ask for speed and his head goes in the air, he won't round his back and get collected and slow down. It's like he forgets his training or something. He's been vetted, teeth were done about a month ago, chiro is coming out next week. He doesn't act sore - just acts like a terd.
I ride him in a dogbone simplicity.
If you have light hands I would try a grasshopper bit with a chain mouth
is that bit still made?? Do you use a curb chain bc he doesn't respond to curb pressure very well |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 2:50 PM
cheryl makofka - 2016-03-15 8:10 PM
Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-15 8:05 PM
I've got a gelding that slow works great around the pattern. He stays collected and transitions down for the turn. He's a free runner to the first and I'm having trouble getting him to rate down and stay collected. If I only go in there to the first at 3/4 speed, he'll rate and turn it just fine. But if I ask for anymore speed, he's got no brakes. I've gone back to the basics with him, and everything is good - he breaks at the poll, moves off leg, picks up leads, disengage shoulder and hip when asked - it's all there. but you ask for speed and his head goes in the air, he won't round his back and get collected and slow down. It's like he forgets his training or something. He's been vetted, teeth were done about a month ago, chiro is coming out next week. He doesn't act sore - just acts like a terd.
I ride him in a dogbone simplicity.
If you have light hands I would try a grasshopper bit with a chain mouth
is that bit still made?? Do you use a curb chain bc he doesn't respond to curb pressure very well
They have started remaking it. It's available on Charmayne's website. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Ed Wright has you check your horse RIGHT before the barrel. I was doing a lot of give and take approaching the first barrel: check and give it back check and give it back and by the time we GOT to the barrel he was checked out. mine also ended up having an "almost" chip in his right knee which was discovered a couple years after I quit running barrels on him so who knows when that happened and if it was the cause of him running by. He'd run by and then smoke the other 2. |
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | BamaCanChaser - 2016-03-17 3:00 PM
Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 2:50 PM
cheryl makofka - 2016-03-15 8:10 PM
Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-15 8:05 PM
I've got a gelding that slow works great around the pattern. He stays collected and transitions down for the turn. He's a free runner to the first and I'm having trouble getting him to rate down and stay collected. If I only go in there to the first at 3/4 speed, he'll rate and turn it just fine. But if I ask for anymore speed, he's got no brakes. I've gone back to the basics with him, and everything is good - he breaks at the poll, moves off leg, picks up leads, disengage shoulder and hip when asked - it's all there. but you ask for speed and his head goes in the air, he won't round his back and get collected and slow down. It's like he forgets his training or something. He's been vetted, teeth were done about a month ago, chiro is coming out next week. He doesn't act sore - just acts like a terd.
I ride him in a dogbone simplicity.
If you have light hands I would try a grasshopper bit with a chain mouth
is that bit still made?? Do you use a curb chain bc he doesn't respond to curb pressure very well
They have started remaking it. It's available on Charmayne's website.
Really?? I'm not in the market really looking for new bits but I might try to get my hands on one since they're making them again. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | hammer_time - 2016-03-17 7:55 PM Ed Wright has you check your horse RIGHT before the barrel. I was doing a lot of give and take approaching the first barrel: check and give it back check and give it back and by the time we GOT to the barrel he was checked out. mine also ended up having an "almost" chip in his right knee which was discovered a couple years after I quit running barrels on him so who knows when that happened and if it was the cause of him running by. He'd run by and then smoke the other 2.
If I did that he'd go by it. Once he gets going, one hard check before the barrel isn't enough =/ |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | You've gotten some good things to try and think on. How does he do when you breeze him and let him out? Does he come back then? |
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 Expert
Posts: 2489
Location: somewhere up north | Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 10:09 PM hammer_time - 2016-03-17 7:55 PM Ed Wright has you check your horse RIGHT before the barrel. I was doing a lot of give and take approaching the first barrel: check and give it back check and give it back and by the time we GOT to the barrel he was checked out. mine also ended up having an "almost" chip in his right knee which was discovered a couple years after I quit running barrels on him so who knows when that happened and if it was the cause of him running by. He'd run by and then smoke the other 2. If I did that he'd go by it. Once he gets going, one hard check before the barrel isn't enough =/
How often do you practice going fast? I've been to an Ed clinic and learned a ton. The one thing to note is that it's a check right before the barrel but you have already practiced teaching your horse to rate down at home. If I rate my horse and he doesn't stop (while going fast) then I have to really ask him to sit down so he learns to respect my cues. You have to teach them transitions and rating back. I have a little mare that is super catty, but if I don't rate her at the turn point on my first she will over run it. So Ed didn't just let me go through the motions he had me get a response from her while doing it. We did change her bit up too. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| I had an OTT that was the same way and someone told me to one rein bump-bump-bump to check for the first barrel. This colt was big and strong and would get excited and run up the fence. It was so frustrating. I got that advice and it got much better.
Also, as for curbs, you can try any bit without a curb, we use a lot of bits with just a piece of rope loosely tied where the curb would go, it applies no pressure. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 2:48 PM Runninonthebuck - 2016-03-15 8:31 PM try doing Dena's flower power drill that she put in barrel horse news. But add speed through the center. I'll have to look this drill up. Thanks!
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this drill!! Been doing it for a couple of years already and its always been effective with getting my free runner to rock back into my hand and seat. I do it at a trot before I lope; long trot your straights and then gather them to make the "petal." Once they get that down pretty good then I moved onto the lope, & then progressed to high loping/galloping the straits and gathering for the "petal."
The first time I did this drill my horse was a COMPLETE WRECK; we'd be blowing out of the petal, head shaking, running through my seat and hands etc, but I just kept at it for a few days, it wasn't perfect by any means, but when I cruised him through the pattern on that third day he nailed his rate and really got back on his hocks.
I really like this drill because it resembles the actual pattern without having to bore them with the pattern day after day.
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-03-18 1:38 PM
Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 2:48 PM Runninonthebuck - 2016-03-15 8:31 PM try doing Dena's flower power drill that she put in barrel horse news. But add speed through the center. I'll have to look this drill up. Thanks!
The first time I did this drill my horse was a COMPLETE WRECK; we'd be blowing out of the petal, head shaking, running through my seat and hands etc, but I just kept at it for a few days, it wasn't perfect by any means, but when I cruised him through the pattern on that third day he nailed his rate and really got back on his hocks.
I really like this drill because it resembles the actual pattern without having to bore them with the pattern day after day.
I have searched everywhere I can think of for this drill and can't find it. Anyone have a link? Or picture? |
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Location: South Dakota | BamaCanChaser - 2016-03-18 1:57 PM WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-03-18 1:38 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-03-17 2:48 PM Runninonthebuck - 2016-03-15 8:31 PM try doing Dena's flower power drill that she put in barrel horse news. But add speed through the center. I'll have to look this drill up. Thanks!
The first time I did this drill my horse was a COMPLETE WRECK; we'd be blowing out of the petal, head shaking, running through my seat and hands etc, but I just kept at it for a few days, it wasn't perfect by any means, but when I cruised him through the pattern on that third day he nailed his rate and really got back on his hocks.
I really like this drill because it resembles the actual pattern without having to bore them with the pattern day after day.
I have searched everywhere I can think of for this drill and can't find it. Anyone have a link? Or picture?
It is in the March issue of Barrel Horse News. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | Ok, so yesterday I was doing speed transitions off the pattern and it was a total hot mess. I can get his butt in the ground when loping, but when I'd ask for a little more speed and had him rate down, he literally like stiffens his his front legs and peg legs. It's like he won't round his back and tuck his butt. My hands aren't harsh, my body position is the same as when I ask him to rate down at a lope. Maybe the chiro will notice something on wednesday, but he's been vetted and teeth done. Feet are also good. I just don't know what his deal is and it's beginning to really frustrate me. He's also built downhill, but he's super snappy around the second and third. It's only when adding speed his body just gets real stiff and it's like his backend doesn't want to get in the ground. Ugggghhhhhh I'm so frustrated . .  I don't drink but this horse is gonna make me start! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| I have a free runner, and had the same issues for a bit. I always had ratey horses so it was an adjustment. When I started her, I learned it was best to be really relaxed and let her pick her speed to the first (don't ask her), then hustle once we were heading to the second. She would still go at a pretty good clip, but it was much smoother. Smoother is faster.
Now, I use the timer line and pen set up to help determine my rate point, but her biggest cue is my voice. I speak to her when I'm going to ask her to rate, and that has been our ticket. ("Hey, hey, hey")
When she is on the muscle and I want her to relax when I'm just out riding, I count slowly out loud so they can hear, 1-2-3-4 over and over. They usually settle and I find it makes me more relaxed in my seat (even if I already think I was).
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | joplin21 - 2016-03-18 3:30 PM I have a free runner, and had the same issues for a bit. I always had ratey horses so it was an adjustment. When I started her, I learned it was best to be really relaxed and let her pick her speed to the first (don't ask her), then hustle once we were heading to the second. She would still go at a pretty good clip, but it was much smoother. Smoother is faster. Now, I use the timer line and pen set up to help determine my rate point, but her biggest cue is my voice. I speak to her when I'm going to ask her to rate, and that has been our ticket. ("Hey, hey, hey") When she is on the muscle and I want her to relax when I'm just out riding, I count slowly out loud so they can hear, 1-2-3-4 over and over. They usually settle and I find it makes me more relaxed in my seat (even if I already think I was).
Yes I've been really trying hard to use my voice during a run. It's also helped to use the timer as my "hey we need to start slowing down" point. Obviously tiny pens we're better at right now. I have faith in this guy, I'm just trying to figure out if there are other methods to this madness that could help lol |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | I cannot find anything on the drill by dena Kirkpatrick flower power on youtube or the magazine. Can someone tell me where? Thanks |
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Location: Mendenhall, Ms | Have yow swapped him to the left to see if it made any difference? I've had some horses that wouldn't rate to the right but would to the left. If the right turn was their 2nd barrel they did just fine. |
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Need some training advice...