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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 442
 
| Could someone explain to me what an equal pay barrel race is? I haven't seen many around my area so I was just curious. Do people like that? Thanks! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
 
| In this area, all the D's pay the same rate whether it's the 1D or the 4.
Example
1D
1st $200
2nd $130
3rd $80
2D
1st $200
2nd $130
3rd $80
3D
1st $200
2nd $130
3rd $80
ETA: They have only done a few of them. The riders who run in the lower D's really seem to like them but the ones on faster horses want those bigger payouts.
Edited by cyount2009 2016-03-24 11:35 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 442
| Yea that doesn't seem completely fair. Thank you for the explanation! I appreciate it. | |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | I like to refer to them as Democratic barrel races. 
Edited by mreklaw 2016-03-24 12:39 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| A terrible idea... | |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| There is a association here that does the equal pay. Their reasoning is that everyone pays the same entry fee. They actually get a lot of people at their races. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Given the choice, I won't go to an equal pay race......but if it's the only thing going on, I'll suck it up and go.
I strongly disagree with this kind of payout. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| heidiinaz - 2016-03-24 1:39 PM
There is a association here that does the equal pay. Their reasoning is that everyone pays the same entry fee. They actually get a lot of people at their races.
I refuse to support them period. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| mreklaw - 2016-03-24 12:36 PM I like to refer to them as Democratic barrel races.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-03-24 12:55 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| MS2011 - 2016-03-24 12:42 PM
Given the choice, I won't go to an equal pay race......but if it's the only thing going on, I'll suck it up and go.
I strongly disagree with this kind of payout.
Me too! I hate the idea. I will go if it's the only one.
They did a backward payout around here last year. Talk about screwy and bizarre. Rather than paying the top spots in the Ds they paid the last spots. The reasoning for it was there are girls who show up to every race and are always in the bottom of their D's. Why would anyone with a fast horse even show up?
Edited by cyount2009 2016-03-24 12:53 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| cyount2009 - 2016-03-24 12:51 PM
MS2011 - 2016-03-24 12:42 PM
Given the choice, I won't go to an equal pay race......but if it's the only thing going on, I'll suck it up and go.
I strongly disagree with this kind of payout.
Me too! I hate the idea. I will go if it's the only one.
They did a backward payout around here last year. Talk about screwy and bizarre. Rather than paying the top spots in the Ds they paid the last spots. The reasoning for it was there are girls who show up to every race and are always in the bottom of their D's. Why would anyone with a fast horse even show up?
I could understand it if they paid the top places like normal and then paid the last two or three holes in each D as an incentive for those girls to come back. To just pay the last holes, that's stupid! | |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | rodeomom3 - 2016-03-24 12:47 PM
mreklaw - 2016-03-24 12:36 PM I like to refer to them as Democratic barrel races. Socialist would be a better term. I am a 3D rider, my daughter can get on the same horse and pull a 1D check, that ability and skill should be rewarded. It is no different than in the work place, those that can "produce more" get paid more. It is what you produce, not what got you there, like in all areas of life.
Well I used Democrat because people want to get rewarded even if they don't do the work. Basically handouts. A true competition rewards the best of the field with the most money. I know its been a shot in the arm for our sport but for what price. I still hate myself for wishing someone would run faster so I will "fall" in the right place. Makes me sick to catch myself thinking that. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 158
| Whats the point in even calling it a race, why don't they all just get participation ribbons and draw names out of a hat to see who gets the money  | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Great for the slow horse totally sucks for the fast horse. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Agreed, its a Barrel RACE equal pay will provide absolutely zero incentive to do better and get faster. I think even the races that are not equal are still to fair. Our association uses 30,27,23,20 for the 1,2,3,4D respectively. There is a slightly better pay off for 1D but not enough!!! I think it should be more like 50, 30, 15,5. Yep you pay the same entry fee but if you don't like being at the bottom of the barrel, train harder, get in better shape as a rider, train better bred horses. If your doing it just for fun and your horse does not have the ability to improve or go faster then thats great to! You will probably get your fees back plus a coke on the way home. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.)
The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event.
A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says.
Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels).
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 393
| RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM
We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.)
The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event.
A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says.
Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels).
I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!!
We always get way more entries when we do equal payout. | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:38 PM RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.) The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event. A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says. Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels). I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!! We always get way more entries when we do equal payout.
I don't like even if I'm hauling a colt that I'd be tickled to get a 5D check on.
At the end of the day - the fastest horse deserves the most $$$$. You don't really ever 'win' anything but the 1D - you just happened to get lucky and your numbers hit. Luck doesn't deserve the reward being the best does. | |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | MS2011 - 2016-03-24 2:47 PM
SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:38 PM RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.) The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event. A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says. Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels). I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!! We always get way more entries when we do equal payout.
At the end of the day - the fastest horse deserves the most $$$$. You don't really ever 'win' anything but the 1D - you just happened to get lucky and your numbers hit. Luck doesn't deserve the reward being the best does.
Exactly! I agree totally with your comment MS2011. And as far as some 1D riders barely staying on their horses, I have seen very accomplished riders and trainers almost come off really quick or hard turning horses. ALso, most large events and associations give the same awards across the board for all divisions winners and I feel this is enough reward for just happening to fall in the right place. Sheer luck doesn't deserve the same as the best of the day.
Edited by mreklaw 2016-03-24 2:58 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 393
| MS2011 - 2016-03-24 1:47 PM
SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:38 PM RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.) The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event. A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says. Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels). I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!! We always get way more entries when we do equal payout.
At the end of the day - the fastest horse deserves the most $$$$. You don't really ever 'win' anything but the 1D - you just happened to get lucky and your numbers hit. Luck doesn't deserve the reward being the best does.
Ouch! That hurts a bit. Not everyone can afford $50,000 horses so they do what they can with what they have.
Just my opinion!!
And if it brings more entries to our jackpots then I am all for it. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | mreklaw - 2016-03-24 2:55 PM
MS2011 - 2016-03-24 2:47 PM
SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:38 PM RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.) The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event. A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says. Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels). I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!! We always get way more entries when we do equal payout.
At the end of the day - the fastest horse deserves the most $$$$. You don't really ever 'win' anything but the 1D - you just happened to get lucky and your numbers hit. Luck doesn't deserve the reward being the best does.
Exactly! I agree totally with your comment MS2011. And as far as some 1D riders barely staying on their horses, I have seen very accomplished riders and trainers almost come off really quick or hard turning horses.
I'm certainly not knocking those accomplished riders on quick turning horses. I too have seen some fantastic riders where suddenly that horse just zips around a barrel and catches them off guard. It can happen to absolutely anyone. Those were not the type I was referring to.
I've seen some riders where you absolutely can't watch them for fear they're going to actually seriously harm (or worse) themselves on a horse they can barely hang on. Which can be a 1D horse or a 5D horse depending on the rider. I just meant that just because you only ride a 3D horse doesn't mean you're less of a horse person then someone who rides a 1D horse.
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Yes I understand. There are plenty of 2D and 3D riders that are truly great horsemen but at the end of the day why should they be rewarded more than someone who clocks better than any one else that day? Just doesn't sound like a true "competition" if everyone wins the same amount. If you are "lucky" enough to fall in just the right place what makes you deserve the same? Why even go to a "race" if everyone is going to get the same money? I was at a race where the 4D horse just happened to fall all by itself in that division that day and won way more than the 1D horse. Granted it was a small race only 80 something horses but Im sorry that's just not right. | |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | I went to a few that were equal payout and liked it. If the 1D riders want more money, then the entry fees should be adjusted accordingly. Right?
Simple. | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:56 PM MS2011 - 2016-03-24 1:47 PM SassyPirate - 2016-03-24 2:38 PM RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 1:32 PM We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.) The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event. A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says. Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels). I agree with this!! If you all pay the same entry fee, why not!! We always get way more entries when we do equal payout.
At the end of the day - the fastest horse deserves the most $$$$. You don't really ever 'win' anything but the 1D - you just happened to get lucky and your numbers hit. Luck doesn't deserve the reward being the best does. Ouch! That hurts a bit. Not everyone can afford $50,000 horses so they do what they can with what they have. Just my opinion!! And if it brings more entries to our jackpots then I am all for it.
I'm sorry - I'm not trying to hurt anyone, it's not a slam (I promise). I dang sure can't afford a 50k ride, (I've never gotten to ride one that was trained). It won't stop me from working my tail off with what I have to move up a D. There's some salty horses out there that didn't have big price tags - they run in the 1D because their riders have made the sacrifices to get them there. Those are the people that deserve the most reward. | |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy. | |
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | Frodo - 2016-03-24 3:26 PM I went to a few that were equal payout and liked it. If the 1D riders want more money, then the entry fees should be adjusted accordingly. Right?
Simple.
OR they could just enter a rodeo. Has anyone ever done the math to determine the percentage of 1D, 2D, 3D and 4D entries? If the largest percentage of entries are in the lower Ds, that may be the reason for the equal payout. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | as long as everyone gets a trophy(metaphorically) then I'm happy.
Equal payouts for life | |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | 1DSoon - 2016-03-24 4:26 PM
as long as everyone gets a trophy(metaphorically) then I'm happy.
Equal payouts for life
Hey!!! Why don't you start an Association like that!!l. You really might have something!!! Wouldn't even have to run your horse! | |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | AllAroundRider - 2016-03-24 3:34 PM I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up.
A lot of very valid points here. The 1D horses are definitely the true winners and deserve to be rewarded as such. On the other hand, if the lower Ds were not showing up, there would not be a whole lot of prize money available to the very small percentage of horses/girls that are the 1D. Also consider that participation is what attracts sponsors who put up prizes and added money. If the slow horse pool decides to stay home because of the payout, the sponsors start losing market exposure and eventually it will hit the 1D in the pocketbook. Imagine the payout at some of the big barrel races if just the 50 to 100 potential 1D horses entered instead of the 1000 or so in all divisions. | |
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 Saint Stacey
| RocketPilot - 2016-03-24 3:13 PM
Frodo - 2016-03-24 3:26 PM I went to a few that were equal payout and liked it. If the 1D riders want more money, then the entry fees should be adjusted accordingly. Right?
Simple.
OR they could just enter a rodeo. Has anyone ever done the math to determine the percentage of 1D, 2D, 3D and 4D entries? If the largest percentage of entries are in the lower Ds, that may be the reason for the equal payout.
I loathe it when people say the 1D or pro girls need to go to a rodeo. But then again, I grew up when there were no D's. That also means I grew up in a generation where not everyone got a trophy or was picked to be on a team. We sucked it up and either got better or moved onto something else.
There are certain times of the year when it can be tough to rodeo. Right now everything is in FL, TX, CA. Pretty hard to simply pick up and enter a rodeo when you stick to mainly your circuit and the next circuit rodeo is in June in your area.
30 years ago you couldn't give away a horse as a barrel horse that clocked 2 seconds off. Now those horses sell for very good money. The 1D horses and riders are every bit as important as the 3D and 4D ones. All the threads about equal pay seem to forget that point. More and more people are hitting the 1D than ever before. THAT is what the D system is about. Sure, we all pay the same entry fee, gas, etc. But it is still a RACE. It isn't an entitlement because someone showed up so they deserve to win as much as the #1 person that ran a time that allowed someone 2 seconds slower to still get a check. How many other races that are equine related allow that? None. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | AllAroundRider - 2016-03-24 3:34 PM
I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up.
^^^This is the bottom line...... those against the equal payout races would rather win less money, but be able to say I won more money than you did???? Makes no sense.
Anyway, how about hitting a compromise? Pay the 1D a little more than the other D's and pay the other D's equal since they are a crap shoot anyway. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | While I am not a 1D rider, I don't expect equal payouts. However, Pac West is starting a new program at their April race in Ocala. A 3/4D slot race. They appreciate the fact that people of all stages come to their shows. So they started this. Hopefully, it will work and give them more success.
Me, really and truly, if you beat me fair and square, I don't care. You obviously had a better horse and rode better then I do. I just hate cheating.
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| AllAroundRider - 2016-03-24 3:34 PM I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up.
I agree with this so much.
I know some 3D riders that have poured their heart, soul, tears, and blood into their horses weather it be training them to get them to that point, or just being satisfied that they can run in the 3D after rehabbing them from an injury. I don't think it's fair to say a 3D rider doesn't work as hard as a 1D rider....we don't know everyone's stories, their expenses, the amount the pay in lessons to work on getting from the 4D,to the 3D, and so on....
I too am not for or against the equal pay barrel race, but to say that anyone that doesn't run in the 1D doesn't work hard is ignorance.
At the end of they day I go to a barrel race to enjoy my horse and spend time with my friends. If the size check I win starts to become the main importance of why I'm going then I need to start evaluating why I am competing. . . But I also don't do this for a living so I'm just happy to win my fees back.
Edited by WrapN3MN 2016-03-25 8:50 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Honestly who cares.
Still a free country
If you don't like the equal division don't go and host your own
If you like the equal division and there are none around you host your own. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| SKM - 2016-03-24 9:45 PM
RocketPilot - 2016-03-24 3:13 PM
Frodo - 2016-03-24 3:26 PM I went to a few that were equal payout and liked it. If the 1D riders want more money, then the entry fees should be adjusted accordingly. Right?
Simple.
OR they could just enter a rodeo. Has anyone ever done the math to determine the percentage of 1D, 2D, 3D and 4D entries? If the largest percentage of entries are in the lower Ds, that may be the reason for the equal payout.
I loathe it when people say the 1D or pro girls need to go to a rodeo. But then again, I grew up when there were no D's. That also means I grew up in a generation where not everyone got a trophy or was picked to be on a team. We sucked it up and either got better or moved onto something else.
There are certain times of the year when it can be tough to rodeo. Right now everything is in FL, TX, CA. Pretty hard to simply pick up and enter a rodeo when you stick to mainly your circuit and the next circuit rodeo is in June in your area.
30 years ago you couldn't give away a horse as a barrel horse that clocked 2 seconds off. Now those horses sell for very good money. The 1D horses and riders are every bit as important as the 3D and 4D ones. All the threads about equal pay seem to forget that point. More and more people are hitting the 1D than ever before. THAT is what the D system is about. Sure, we all pay the same entry fee, gas, etc. But it is still a RACE. It isn't an entitlement because someone showed up so they deserve to win as much as the #1 person that ran a time that allowed someone 2 seconds slower to still get a check. How many other races that are equine related allow that? None.
I remember when "jackpot" meant winner takes all. If you were lucky they paid the top 10. I was very young running at these races and I was always so proud of myself if I landed in the top 10 and got a check. I think if people still had to run in true "jackpots", no one would be b*tching about a progressive payout. | |
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| I don't care about the payout, because I have an open horse and green ones. Being in the lower D's allows me to compete against myself.
As stated earlier, I love the fact that a nice slower horse can be worth decent money. Or the older fancy horse still has place other than the pasture once it is past it's prime. I'm very thankful for this because it was awful (back when...) you would spend years on a horse only to find out they couldn't quite cut the mustard and end up with nothing.
Edited by NFM 2016-03-25 10:02 AM
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 2:32 PM
We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.)
The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event.
A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says.
Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels).
I have spent more years than most on this board have been alive, looking for, training and hauling to try and make that once in a lifetime horse. Why oh WHY would I waste my time and precious runs going to an equal payout?
Yeah, it's great for the 2,3,4,5 D riders and therefore the producers, but NOT for the true top competitors.
But then again, it also grinds my butt when I see someone touting themselves as a Champion (local, State, Regional, World) only to discover that they are champions of consistently being 2 seconds slower than the fastest horse.
Yes I am old, and that IMHO. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| NFM - 2016-03-25 9:55 AM
I don't care about the payout, because I have an open horse and green ones. Being in the lower D's allows me to compete against myself.
As stated earlier, I love the fact that a nice slower horse can be worth decent money. Or the older fancy horse still has place other than the pasture once it is past it's prime. I'm very thankful for this because it was awful (back when...) you would spend years on a horse only to find out they couldn't quite cut the mustard and end up with nothing.
when they came up with the D's, they did a great thing for the barrel horse market... | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Honestly, I think straight payout is awesome with really big races (750+ running). In numbers like these, honestly, the 3D-5D is way more competitive than the 1D, as far as numbers in each D. The chances of winning a check in the slower Ds is what makes it such a "jackpot!" Why shouldn't the slower Ds have some incentive to keep coming? Why should I even bothering entering my young horse and hassling through a three day race with him if I don't have a chance to be reciprocated? ANHA is really successful and it's straight pay out. It has a great pay out.
I don't feel straight payout is a good option for small races though, just because of the truly reduced incentive.
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Equal payout of any ADDED money is quite common here. The entry fees are then divided by a percentage with the greatest amount of that to 1D. What you really need to look at is the amount of your entry fee that is paid back. Sometimes in fine print it will say 50% payback.. The customary payback here is 80%.
There is a monthly barrel racing association around here that has equal payouts and they usually have close to 200 entries at each show with no added money. Around here if the there is a barrel race you will have a big turnout. I would say no one cares about the payout. | |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | AllAroundRider - 2016-03-24 1:34 PM
I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up.
Actually the reason behind the D system is to stop people from cheating the novice system that was in place before. The whole idea of barrel racing is to get better and work your way up. We used to get our young horses trained and start hauling them when they were ready. Since they were 'virgins" so to speak we started out running novice classes. Some of these horses were running open times when they first hit the pen. They quickly worked their way through the novice class system into the open. But there were always horses working their way up outrunning the horses who were professional $500 novice horses. Consequently, the people who were stuck in the novice classes for a long time got outrun in their own class. It sucks to try so hard and fight that system. I get that. It doesn't mean the 3 or 4D should get the same money as the 1D winner.
So the fact that the novice class combinations (horse & rider) are NOW able to win a bigger portion of the pot is already a big improvement over the old novice system for their pocketbook where they paid entry fees and got nothing. That's very discouraging. The side effect of people with horses or ability that can't or won't do what it takes to get better is that a horse that can run 3D or worse still has a market value to someone who is satisfied with that level. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Some people are unwilling or incapable through no fault of their own to improve. That's fine and I applaud them for enjoying the sport. But it doesn't mean they should win the same amount as a 1D rider/horse combo.
I've never paid more than 5K for a prospect. Most were way less than that. I made some nice horses because I worked at it. I sacrificed other things other people were doing because I went home from school or work to ride. This was important to me. I went to clinics to learn better horsemanship. I learned how to take care of them and ride/train them to get what they had to give. Sometimes it means moving on to a different horse. There is a very small percentage of horses that are capable of winning the 1D. I can't really believe that if someone wants to work at it, really do what it takes they can't get faster, unless they have a physical or mental issue that prevents it. I've seen time after time where a horse is a 3D horse with one rider and a 1D horse with a different rider. That proves my point. But, I don't want them to quit. On the contrary.
But they shouldn't get the same payout as the 1D horse/rider combo.  | |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| Swannranch - 2016-03-25 11:12 AM
rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!!
I think the "fierce arguments" are in answer to the question from the original OP when they asked if people like equal payout or not. | |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Swannranch - 2016-03-25 9:12 AM
rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!!
We're practicing our debating/persuasive skills. Or possibly bringing someone back from the brink of socialism. Who knows. LOL | |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | I remember when the D system was started. I competed in one of the first if not the first one. It was in Portland, Tn. The guy that started it based it on the ET racing that had invaded drag racing. it was a crock for drag racing and it is for barrel racing. Main reason he started it was because Rooster and Bubba Pedigo was destrying all the barrel races and people couldn't get close to them.
But his intent was also that there could be one barrel race for the youth and beginners and seasoned vets vs having several barrel races for those different levels. And people could win money while they were learning and advancing. It was never his intent that people would stay in the D's and wish to be in the lower D's. It was 3D then with 1 second splits. This was the early 80's when the NBHA was just a twinkle in Talmadge's eye.
Portland is not far from Nashville so that became the hub of the D's. And it spread from there. Especially with the advent of the NBHA and they adopted the D system.
The equal pay in that area came much later but that is how it is in the Nashville, Tn region today. I doubt you could have a barrel race or pole bending in that area that's not equal pay and have a turnout.
I think it's as wrong as wrong can be but they will argue that point fircely if you tell them that. I gave up arguing it with them. But I have never changed my mind about it. The person that wins the 1D should get more money than the person that wins the 2, 3 and 4D's.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | cyount2009 - 2016-03-25 10:20 AM
Swannranch - 2016-03-25 11:12 AM
rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!!
I think the "fierce arguments" are in answer to the question from the original OP when they asked if people like equal payout or not.
I agree. Don't like it don't go. Im running my mare and so far haven't made it out of 4D. She may make it to 3D when we work out some kinks. Will she ever be 1D? Nope. I still pour blood, sweat, and tears into training and improving myself and my horse. I can't afford another horse right now and won't sell this mare. I have to get "lucky" and pull a check or I can't keep going. There are different division so comparing a 1D horse to a lower division horse simply isn't fair. They have different divisions in place so I feel the fastest horse in each division deserves some credit. Sure the 1D horse ran the fastest time in their division. Don't like equal payout don't go. Equal payment helps me keep going and I feel its a bit more fair in the sense that it recognizes each division is just as important as the next. If all the lower divisions didnt show up there would be much payout for the 1D anyways. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Serenity06 - 2016-03-25 11:48 AM
cyount2009 - 2016-03-25 10:20 AM
Swannranch - 2016-03-25 11:12 AM
rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!!
I think the "fierce arguments" are in answer to the question from the original OP when they asked if people like equal payout or not.
I agree. Don't like it don't go. Im running my mare and so far haven't made it out of 4D. She may make it to 3D when we work out some kinks. Will she ever be 1D? Nope. I still pour blood, sweat, and tears into training and improving myself and my horse. I can't afford another horse right now and won't sell this mare. I have to get "lucky" and pull a check or I can't keep going. There are different division so comparing a 1D horse to a lower division horse simply isn't fair. They have different divisions in place so I feel the fastest horse in each division deserves some credit. Sure the 1D horse ran the fastest time in their division. Don't like equal payout don't go. Equal payment helps me keep going and I feel its a bit more fair in the sense that it recognizes each division is just as important as the next. If all the lower divisions didnt show up there would be much payout for the 1D anyways.
The most important D is the 1D, every other division is based on the fastest horse of the day. All the other D winners should thank the 1D winner because with out that run they may not have had any money at all! | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| FlyingJT - 2016-03-25 10:08 AM
NFM - 2016-03-25 9:55 AM
I don't care about the payout, because I have an open horse and green ones. Being in the lower D's allows me to compete against myself.
As stated earlier, I love the fact that a nice slower horse can be worth decent money. Or the older fancy horse still has place other than the pasture once it is past it's prime. I'm very thankful for this because it was awful (back when...) you would spend years on a horse only to find out they couldn't quite cut the mustard and end up with nothing.
when they came up with the D's, they did a great thing for the barrel horse market...
This, IMO was the biggest reason the divisional races were formed. You had a small group of top trainers and riders who could only get their hands on a limited number of top horses to make and a lot of mediocre ones. They found that the number of people willing to pay good money for the mediocre ones from a "name" was limited so they started the divisional races. I remember attending a presentation at Quarter Horse Congress years and years ago, and that was my first thought then and I have not changed my opinion.
It may have helped the "market" but it sure has hurt those of us with limited funds wanting to buy/make a good horse. Can't say it's hurt or helped me personally in selling horses because I can't sell ice to a thirsty rich man in the desert in the middle of summer. | |
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 Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | 3canstorun - 2016-03-25 6:30 AM
While I am not a 1D rider, I don't expect equal payouts. However, Pac West is starting a new program at their April race in Ocala. A 3/4D slot race. They appreciate the fact that people of all stages come to their shows. So they started this. Hopefully, it will work and give them more success.
Me, really and truly, if you beat me fair and square, I don't care. You obviously had a better horse and rode better then I do. I just hate cheating.
I ran in a 3D/4D slot race in CO. No 1D/2D riders were allowed. | |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | OregonBR - 2016-03-25 9:11 AM
AllAroundRider - 2016-03-24 1:34 PM
I'm not for it or against it but to the ones saying they re against it because it does away with the drive to get better, the entire concept of divisional races would have already done that if that was true. The whole point of divisional races is to increase entries, allow people at all levels to compete and pontential recover some of their entries/expenses, and grow the sport, which clearly it has. If having equal payout races increases the number of entries which will also increase the payout for everyone why not? I don't think too many 1d riders are going to skip a race they can win $1500 at but it be equal payout to go to a progressive payout race and win $700; not very smart business. Also, I have yet to see anybody make a living winning the 3d and fewer yet that aren't trying their best to improve and move up.
Actually the reason behind the D system is to stop people from cheating the novice system that was in place before. The whole idea of barrel racing is to get better and work your way up. We used to get our young horses trained and start hauling them when they were ready. Since they were 'virgins" so to speak we started out running novice classes. Some of these horses were running open times when they first hit the pen. They quickly worked their way through the novice class system into the open. But there were always horses working their way up outrunning the horses who were professional $500 novice horses. Consequently, the people who were stuck in the novice classes for a long time got outrun in their own class. It sucks to try so hard and fight that system. I get that. It doesn't mean the 3 or 4D should get the same money as the 1D winner.
So the fact that the novice class combinations (horse & rider ) are NOW able to win a bigger portion of the pot is already a big improvement over the old novice system for their pocketbook where they paid entry fees and got nothing. That's very discouraging. The side effect of people with horses or ability that can't or won't do what it takes to get better is that a horse that can run 3D or worse still has a market value to someone who is satisfied with that level. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Some people are unwilling or incapable through no fault of their own to improve. That's fine and I applaud them for enjoying the sport. But it doesn't mean they should win the same amount as a 1D rider/horse combo.
I've never paid more than 5K for a prospect. Most were way less than that. I made some nice horses because I worked at it. I sacrificed other things other people were doing because I went home from school or work to ride. This was important to me. I went to clinics to learn better horsemanship. I learned how to take care of them and ride/train them to get what they had to give. Sometimes it means moving on to a different horse. There is a very small percentage of horses that are capable of winning the 1D. I can't really believe that if someone wants to work at it, really do what it takes they can't get faster, unless they have a physical or mental issue that prevents it. I've seen time after time where a horse is a 3D horse with one rider and a 1D horse with a different rider. That proves my point. But, I don't want them to quit. On the contrary.
But they shouldn't get the same payout as the 1D horse/rider combo.
I took three different horses through the novice system and graduated them all because of the high-money D races. | |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | Swannranch - 2016-03-25 9:12 AM
rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy.
TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!!
I don't see an argument. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I never said the 1D runners weren't important. I simply said ALL divisions are important. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | 3canstorun - 2016-03-25 9:30 AM
While I am not a 1D rider, I don't expect equal payouts. However, Pac West is starting a new program at their April race in Ocala. A 3/4D slot race. They appreciate the fact that people of all stages come to their shows. So they started this. Hopefully, it will work and give them more success.
Me, really and truly, if you beat me fair and square, I don't care. You obviously had a better horse and rode better then I do. I just hate cheating.
I went to a barrel race here 2 weeks ago that had a target race with buckle award - to the rider with the most consistent times over 2 days. Interesting concept! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| As someone that's been around long before the D races, it's interesting to see this post along with the comments. Time was, you'd have a barrel race and if 30 showed up it was a good turnout, and I live in North Texas where there's a barrel race about every 30 minuts. Yes, the fastest horse won as well as maybe the 2nd or 3rd fastest.....but with 30 entires big purses just weren't there. Added money was rare.
Then, the D system arrived, which at first I thought was the dumbest idea I had ever heard of. But, races started drawing 2, 4, 6 times as many entires as before. Guess what happened to those that won the 1D...they got a lot more money just by virtue of volume. At a big race probably what 90 or 95% of the people fall outside the 1D, so who's setting the bar for the payout? It's not the 1D folks.
I have hit the 1D, even won it a few times at smaller races of 50 or 60. Most races do pay out more for the 1D folks, and at the next race the same pair may be in the 2D. So call it what you want, barrel racing socialism, or I'm the best 'today' and I deserve it or whatever you want to call it. But if it wasn't for the rest of us, even with equal pay out, the 1D would pay about 1/4 of what it used to.
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | barrelracer1983 - 2016-03-25 1:07 PM 3canstorun - 2016-03-25 6:30 AM While I am not a 1D rider, I don't expect equal payouts. However, Pac West is starting a new program at their April race in Ocala. A 3/4D slot race. They appreciate the fact that people of all stages come to their shows. So they started this. Hopefully, it will work and give them more success.
Me, really and truly, if you beat me fair and square, I don't care. You obviously had a better horse and rode better then I do. I just hate cheating.
I ran in a 3D/4D slot race in CO. No 1D/2D riders were allowed.
How did they decide who was eligible to enter? It seems like it would be tricky because it's not just the rider, it depends on what horse they're riding?
IDK -my mind shoots back to the novice classes and how many people cheated the system there. (Don't think they won't lie about entries). | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | OregonBR - 2016-03-25 11:22 AM Swannranch - 2016-03-25 9:12 AM rockette - 2016-03-24 4:44 PM If you don't mind then go, if you do, then don't. Easy. TOTALLY agree with this. I don't understand the fierce arguments. There are a ton of races, plenty of room for both. If you like it, GO, if you don't, DON'T GO. Enjoy the ones you do go to!!! We're practicing our debating/persuasive skills. Or possibly bringing someone back from the brink of socialism. Who knows. LOL
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | MS2011 - 2016-03-26 9:25 AM
barrelracer1983 - 2016-03-25 1:07 PM 3canstorun - 2016-03-25 6:30 AM While I am not a 1D rider, I don't expect equal payouts. However, Pac West is starting a new program at their April race in Ocala. A 3/4D slot race. They appreciate the fact that people of all stages come to their shows. So they started this. Hopefully, it will work and give them more success.
Me, really and truly, if you beat me fair and square, I don't care. You obviously had a better horse and rode better then I do. I just hate cheating.
I ran in a 3D/4D slot race in CO. No 1D/2D riders were allowed.
IDK -my mind shoots back to the novice classes and how many people cheated the system there. (Don't think they won't lie about entries).
Evaluations and research. They looked at your winning record if you will. With barrelracingreport.com and Equi-Stat, it's almost easy to look someone up. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds. I have to disagree about any one can jump on a trained horse and win, been there done that-did not win lol. I started riding my girls 1D horses when they quit riding, I turned them into very expensive 3D horses. I am having a blast though and enjoying the game. It takes a skill set I do not have and don't expect to ever have to ride those 1D hard turning winning horses. There are plenty of 1D horses that were made at home, not bought trained and ready to go. They also put years of sweat and training to get where they are.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-03-26 7:29 PM
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
Pfffft. "Anyone can jump on a 1D horse." "Zero effort".
Ohhhh okay...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| classicpotatochip - 2016-03-26 10:57 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
Pfffft. "Anyone can jump on a 1D horse." "Zero effort".
Ohhhh okay...
I never specified 1D horses only, I said ANY 'bought trained' horse. If it can run without help (which is another way of explaining 'bought trained'), all you have to do is jump on and stay out of the way. I know PLENTY of them, and I've trained several. They are not hard to ride if you let them do their job. You see kids thrown on them all the time, all they have to do is hold on and kick. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 11:29 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-03-26 10:57 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
Pfffft. "Anyone can jump on a 1D horse." "Zero effort".
Ohhhh okay...
I never specified 1D horses only, I said ANY 'bought trained' horse. If it can run without help (which is another way of explaining 'bought trained' ), all you have to do is jump on and stay out of the way. I know PLENTY of them, and I've trained several. They are not hard to ride if you let them do their job. You see kids thrown on them all the time, all they have to do is hold on and kick.
While you do make some valid points there are a few things with which I would disagree.
It just isn't true that 'anyone' can jump on a trained horse and win. In fact, current case in point, I bet there's about 3/4 of the folks going down the road today that couldn't jump on Sarah Rose McDonald's horse and leave them standing, much less win. Everytime I watch them I just shake my head in amazement.
And as for $20K, that's a good prospect's price right now, not a top horse. Saw a yearling the other day for $15K. And I think Latte sold back a few years ago for about $350K, and that was more or less public knowledge. I'm sure there are some private treaties that top that price.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for the top 2 legged athletes as well as the top 4 legged athletes. It takes a team. | |
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 I'm Really Boring
Posts: 4505
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
Seriously?
Just when I thought you couldn't say anything more ignorant than what you've said on other posts in the past, you give us this gem. | |
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 Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| rodeomom3 - 2016-03-26 4:46 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds. I have to disagree about any one can jump on a trained horse and win, been there done that-did not win lol. I started riding my girls 1D horses when they quit riding, I turned them into very expensive 3D horses. I am having a blast though and enjoying the game. It takes a skill set I do not have and don't expect to ever have to ride those 1D hard turning winning horses. There are plenty of 1D horses that were made at home, not bought trained and ready to go. They also put years of sweat and training to get where they are.
^^^^This!
Also, I *personally* could care less if it is equal pay. I will -NEVER- pay myself back in winnings for the amount I have sunk into this hobby so I will just enjoy the cash prizes (equal pay or not) as they come along. | |
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Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| Coop - 2016-03-27 8:55 AM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
Seriously?
Just when I thought you couldn't say anything more ignorant than what you've said on other posts in the past, you give us this gem.
Oh Lordy...
I just saw this highlighted portion. Gotta move along before I type what is on my mind.
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Saint Stacey
| Thoughts to ponder:
1) Funny how you never see the likes of Sherry, Fallon, Lisa, etc saying how much better they could jockey someone else's horse. Yet here in BHW we see it all the time.
2) Funny how everyone on BHW is saying that the 1D has the least amount of horses in it. Yet everyone here claims to have a 1D horse. If everyone has a 1D horse, then the 1D must be the biggest division. Oh wait...
3) Funny how on every payout thread, everyone is proud to have a 4D horse. Yet on every single training thread everyone talks about the 1D horse they are running. Now I'm just confused.
Seems like a bunch of people aren't being honest with what they have. I personally feel that if you love to barrel race and you adore your equine partner then you shouldn't have to stretch the truth about what they are just to make yourself look better. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | SKM - 2016-03-27 10:35 AM
Thoughts to ponder:
1) Funny how you never see the likes of Sherry, Fallon, Lisa, etc saying how much better they could jockey someone else's horse. Yet here in BHW we see it all the time.
2) Funny how everyone on BHW is saying that the 1D has the least amount of horses in it. Yet everyone here claims to have a 1D horse. If everyone has a 1D horse, then the 1D must be the biggest division. Oh wait...
3) Funny how on every payout thread, everyone is proud to have a 4D horse. Yet on every single training thread everyone talks about the 1D horse they are running. Now I'm just confused.
Seems like a bunch of people aren't being honest with what they have. I personally feel that if you love to barrel race and you adore your equine partner then you shouldn't have to stretch the truth about what they are just to make yourself look better.
That does seem to be a trend on here.
I know I don't have a 1D horse and that's fine. I am proud to own my currently running in the 4D horse because she was a down and out horse that we never thought would be sound enough to ride anyways. Now her coming 4yr old if he doesn't clock faster then her after he's trained he will be for sale and I will be investing in another horse. I'll never claim I can jockey anyone else's horse better or claim my horse is faster then she is. Lol | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| WHY is this issue ALWAYS an us vs. them? Why so much animosity towards 1/2D horses/riders? No matter what D your in MOST of us aren't doing this to put food on the table or a roof over our head and are mostly in the red when it comes to the $. How about being grateful and happy we get too? Go if you want or don't go. I have heard just about every argument for/against equal/progressive pay. Personally, I PREFER progressive and rarely go to a an equal unless I'm running young ones.
And quite frankly it's offensive to me when someone says "you just need to go rodeo" NEWS FLASH: I DONT WANT TO! I'm a momma raising a family and don't want to be on the road. Rodeo isn't " family friendly" in that aspect. Secondly, not every horse winning at jackpots is rodeo quality. A lot of them couldn't handle it. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This topic seems to come up about once a year, and it becomes a hot topic, because everyone has their point of view. Predictably, cat fights ensue.
My opinion is the equal payouts seem to be popular because everyone has a shot at the same money....all completely dependent on the luck of the draw anyway, unless you are a top 1D competitor. Anyone lower than 1D winning any money is purely dependent on the luck of the draw and who sets the time.
Personally, I don't like it. The better competitors deserve better earnings, in my book. Simply working hard is not the determinant of success in sports.
Generally, ball players who play at the AAA level make significantly more than those playing A ball. That's just the way it is. | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds. Sorry - but after reading the bit about politics and this viewpoint. I have to ask - Are you voting for Bernie? Because this very much reads like a particpation trophy for all, no matter how good you are.
It's a horse race - which means the BEST team is the fastest....period....and they walk away as winners. The other Ds are just whoever got lucky and hit the number lotto that day.
Edited by MS2011 2016-03-27 9:51 PM
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 A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | There are a lot of them here in Texas. I personally like them, but if you don't like the equal payout, there are so many barrel races each weekend around here you can go elsewhere. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 754
Location: Arkansas | Bear - 2016-03-27 5:40 PM This topic seems to come up about once a year, and it becomes a hot topic, because everyone has their point of view. Predictably, cat fights ensue. My opinion is the equal payouts seem to be popular because everyone has a shot at the same money....all completely dependent on the luck of the draw anyway, unless you are a top 1D competitor. Anyone lower than 1D winning any money is purely dependent on the luck of the draw and who sets the time. Personally, I don't like it. The better competitors deserve better earnings, in my book. Simply working hard is not the determinant of success in sports. Generally, ball players who play at the AAA level make significantly more than those playing A ball. That's just the way it is.
This right here pretty much sums it up to me. It doesn't get any plainer or easier to understand. | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | rodeomom3 - 2016-03-24 12:47 PM
mreklaw - 2016-03-24 12:36 PM I like to refer to them as Democratic barrel races. Socialist would be a better term. I am a 3D rider, my daughter can get on the same horse and pull a 1D check, that ability and skill should be rewarded. It is no different than in the work place, those that can "produce more" get paid more. It is what you produce, not what got you there, like in all areas of life. If you applied that logic in the work place everyone would get the same salary. If you really believed the " I paid the same entry fee, feed costs the same" reasoning why are different amounts paid in the D' s for 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. shouldn't everyone get the same amount??
I personally can't stand the reasoning of "I paid the same entry, pay the same for feed and care and ride just as much, therefore I'm entitled the win the same in the 5D as the 1D". Not everyone gets a trophy. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | Personally I think there is room to try new formats and contestants are free to choose where they go. Not sure why this has to keep coming up.
When i was younger i hated the 3d format and had the same reasoning as many on here. After seeing how much barrel racing has grown under the 3 d format I have grown to appreciate it. The races were never this big before. The fast girls did not get squat for money back then either. also the venues were not very nice, now they have such nice big races at great places and that would not happen if only the 1 d was contributing.
Honestly you need to keep a large number of riders happy or they will simply not come back.
Some call it socialism and maybe it is, but I really do not think that everyone wants to really live in a purely capitolistic society where the 1 % gets to just take take take and never give back. I don't want the middle class to go away and I see the 3d and 4 d winners as the middle class they get their positions by a lot of work and then it takes luck. I know alot of people that lucked out on a good paying job and quite frankly they did not do anything extraordinary to get it, they smoosed their way to their position, but because they lucked into it, the rest of us poor people have hope of landing a good job eventually. well the 3d and 4 d riders have hope of landing a big payday and I really do not want to take that hope away, that is what keeps them coming back. otherwise they will just be overworked minimum wage workers making the 1% rich and getting nothing in return and no HOPE of getting a return.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Each to their own, I suppose. It's perfectly fine to have equal payout races, if there is a demand. It's not socialism. It's capitalism. Obviously there are a lot of people who flock to those jackpots. We go to them as well, occasionally. I just prefer that excellence is rewarded better than mediocrity. I'm not crazy about buybacks either, but I've learned to just accept them. I think most people who run a "do over" probably don't have much of an effect on the final outcome anyway. | |
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| rodeoveteran - 2016-03-25 11:03 AM
RunNitroRun - 2016-03-24 2:32 PM
We did it one year for an event we were trying to attract people too. The event was a Futurity/Derby with a Jackpot and typically brought in some pro level girls who were carrying their time over from the Futurity/Derby races. They weren't racing again and because the ladies basically took home the 1D and 2D payouts people got tired of coming because the payouts in the 3D and 4D really weren't worth coming. (These were women coming from far away locations (16+ hours) where there are winter jackpots and lots of year round events so the local competitors didn't feel the event was worth attending.)
The year we made it equal we increased our attendance by 40% which made a huge difference and it brought people back to the event. It was great for attracting people and making decisions for the future of that event.
A lot of people made the same comment that if it's equal what is the incentive to get better. I've witnessed a lot of 1D riders who can't ride worth crap but can hang on (sometimes barely) and run a really fast horse. I've also witnessed a lot of 3D riders who can't afford anything more get the most out of their 3D horse with perfect patterns. Saying that a person won't get better has more factors then what a clock and a cheque says.
Just because there are equal payouts doesn't mean you're going to get a cheque so I don't understand why a person wouldn't attend (unless you make your living running barrels).
I have spent more years than most on this board have been alive, looking for, training and hauling to try and make that once in a lifetime horse. Why oh WHY would I waste my time and precious runs going to an equal payout?
Yeah, it's great for the 2,3,4,5 D riders and therefore the producers, but NOT for the true top competitors.
But then again, it also grinds my butt when I see someone touting themselves as a Champion (local, State, Regional, World ) only to discover that they are champions of consistently being 2 seconds slower than the fastest horse.
Yes I am old, and that IMHO.
I remember a post on Fallon Taylor’s page where she won a 2D buckle. Does this make her a 2D rider or is she still considered a “true top competitor”?
You should be very careful when you thumb your nose at the lower division riders for being proud of what they won. Keep in mind that placing in one of the lower divisions gives them incentives to keep entering and putting their money in the pot.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | They should just give out blue ribbons to everyone with a tag on back where you can fill in the time, location, and overall placing. Then they should award the top say 5 riders with cash, and have a random drawing for the rest.
In today's world where everyone's feelings need to be nurtured, that would fit nicely. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Somebody explain to me how equal payout among divisions is socialist but the 4D itself is not. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TXBO - 2016-03-28 11:41 AM
Somebody explain to me how equal payout among divisions is socialist but the 4D itself is not.
Good question | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| TXBO - 2016-03-28 12:41 PM
Somebody explain to me how equal payout among divisions is socialist but the 4D itself is not.
GREAT QUESTION. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| MS2011 - 2016-03-27 10:37 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID). I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times. Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point. If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere. What is the point to this monologue, you might ask? The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there. Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds. Sorry - but after reading the bit about politics and this viewpoint. I have to ask - Are you voting for Bernie? Because this very much reads like a particpation trophy for all, no matter how good you are.
It's a horse race - which means the BEST team is the fastest....period....and they walk away as winners. The other Ds are just whoever got lucky and hit the number lotto that day.
WHY DOES IT MATTER?! WHO CARES WHO IS VOTING FOR WHO?! THAT IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM RELEVANT TO THE CONVERSATION.... STOP BRINGING POLITICS INTO EVERY **** CONVERSATION!
rant over.
Note:
I never even said I agreed with equal pay, I've never been to one, never even heard of them til right now. My whole point is who cares that much about the money to fight over something like this?! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1586
Location: west of East Texas | I love equal payout. I don't have a 1D horse right now but I have won/placed in several in the past. My take on it is exactly as some have said before, there wouldn't be any decent payout if the 3D and beyond didn't show up. Can you imagine the uproar if the payout was based per the number of qualifiers in each D? Or if we had to get 'numbers' like the teamropers and were ranked before we ever got to the race?
And for those that demean the riders that aren't 'working their butts off' to become 1D - you guys are missing out on a whole lot of the FUN part of horses and barrel races. That's like saying you shouldn't snow ski unless your goal is to ski all blacks, shouldn't play golf unless you improve your handicap each year, shouldn't fish unless you catch more every time. Lighten up, this is supposed to fun.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | chasendacash - 2016-03-28 12:36 PM
I love equal payout. I don't have a 1D horse right now but I have won/placed in several in the past. My take on it is exactly as some have said before, there wouldn't be any decent payout if the 3D and beyond didn't show up. Can you imagine the uproar if the payout was based per the number of qualifiers in each D? Or if we had to get 'numbers' like the teamropers and were ranked before we ever got to the race?
And for those that demean the riders that aren't 'working their butts off' to become 1D - you guys are missing out on a whole lot of the FUN part of horses and barrel races. That's like saying you shouldn't snow ski unless your goal is to ski all blacks, shouldn't play golf unless you improve your handicap each year, shouldn't fish unless you catch more every time. Lighten up, this is supposed to fun.
I think that is a great idea! This way nobody has to complete with mediocre socialists. Have payouts of each D determined by how many qualified. | |
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Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| This entire thread has gotten so bizarre. XD | |
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Veteran
Posts: 289
Location: Northeast SD | I don't agree with these races at all so I won't be attending.
My thoughts are why should my 1D horse that just placed 3rd in the 1D and outran 200+ horses be rewarded less than my colt that spooked and won the 4D (or just my colt that ran in the 4D in general). Makes 1D horses not as valuable if this were the case everywhere. Yes, I have 1D horses but I also have ones that won't run 1D times but I love running them and think it's great that I have the opportunity to get a check on them but still don't think they deserve more money than the 1D horse. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 582
Location: Wherever They Send Me | Kry5ta1 - 2016-03-28 1:18 PM
This entire thread has gotten so bizarre. XD
AGREED!!! Im just gonna sit here an eat my popcorn.   | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | rockette - 2016-03-28 12:11 PM chasendacash - 2016-03-28 12:36 PM I love equal payout. I don't have a 1D horse right now but I have won/placed in several in the past. My take on it is exactly as some have said before, there wouldn't be any decent payout if the 3D and beyond didn't show up. Can you imagine the uproar if the payout was based per the number of qualifiers in each D? Or if we had to get 'numbers' like the teamropers and were ranked before we ever got to the race?
And for those that demean the riders that aren't 'working their butts off' to become 1D - you guys are missing out on a whole lot of the FUN part of horses and barrel races. That's like saying you shouldn't snow ski unless your goal is to ski all blacks, shouldn't play golf unless you improve your handicap each year, shouldn't fish unless you catch more every time. Lighten up, this is supposed to fun.
I think that is a great idea! This way nobody has to complete with mediocre socialists. Have payouts of each D determined by how many qualified.
Back in the days of the 3D, that is exactly how we paid it out, according to the number in each D......... | |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | I really don't mind the equal payout. My horse and I are not going to win a 1D race at the moment, heck we might never get there, so for me winning a check, any check is a plus. Also it is not my day job...(thank heavens, since i'd be starving....) so again, any check I pull, YAY...
That being said.... this is still a (relatively) free country.... if you don't like equal payout.... well, nobody is forcing you to enter.... stay home with your bad self... or not..... totally up to you....
I think we all can agree to disagree here and move on with our happy days. 
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: Michigan | mreklaw - 2016-03-24 1:56 PM
rodeomom3 - 2016-03-24 12:47 PM
mreklaw - 2016-03-24 12:36 PM I like to refer to them as Democratic barrel races. Socialist would be a better term. I am a 3D rider, my daughter can get on the same horse and pull a 1D check, that ability and skill should be rewarded. It is no different than in the work place, those that can "produce more" get paid more. It is what you produce, not what got you there, like in all areas of life.
Well I used Democrat because people want to get rewarded even if they don't do the work. Basically handouts. A true competition rewards the best of the field with the most money. I know its been a shot in the arm for our sport but for what price. I still hate myself for wishing someone would run faster so I will "fall" in the right place. Makes me sick to catch myself thinking that.
Guess we could just re-name it to the "Welfare Barrel Class" because "people want to get rewarded even if they don't do the work." | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-28 12:29 PM
MS2011 - 2016-03-27 10:37 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race.
Excuse me , but it takes zero effort to ride a 1D horse???? Anybody can do it?????
Umm tell that to all the people who have shelled out big bucks for 1D horses and then cannot ride them to their ability. It would be mostly those same 1D riders getting on problem horses and making them look good.
I had a lot more pride when they offered novice classes when I started way back when for both riders and horses, where you competed against horses/riders of similar experience. To me personally there was a lot more pride and bragging rights saying that I had the fasted time against other novice horses/riders than bragging that I was consistently 2 seconds slower than the fastest horse. I just ran a new, young horse for the first time this past weekend, only entered for the chance to exhibition a couple more times, not to actually "compete". lo and behold I was second in the 3D in a class of 13 on 1st in the 3D in a class of 50 with almost a one second faster run. Should I have made equal money as the horse who ran the fastest time? Absofreakinlutely not, IMHO. But then again, that is MHO. I will take the money to help defray cost but there is no way, if and when this horse gets in to the 1d I will go out of my way to go a divisional race, ESPECIALLY an equal pay one. Why waste a good horse?
I started form the bottom with no lessons, there WERE no clinics to attend and heaven forbid anyone would help you. It was 7 years before I made a dime at a jackpot. If that happened with today's "competitors" most would quit. Now tell me that I didn't "earn" my way anywhere near the top.
I am sorry but a 3D horse just is NOT worth the same amount as a consistent, true 1D horse no matter how you slice it, no matter how much money, time
and love you spend on it. And when those true 1D horses don't show up it lowers the curve. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | Bear - 2016-03-28 10:16 AM TXBO - 2016-03-28 11:41 AM Somebody explain to me how equal payout among divisions is socialist but the 4D itself is not. Good question
Somebody explain to me how it is socialism when 600 people show up to a race and pay money that they earned to the same few riders that win every single race. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back.
Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | 1DSoon - 2016-03-28 2:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?
bragging rights
I actually like progresive payout and I would rather have the last place in the 1 D than win the 4 d, however i like to poke the bees nest because it is so easy here.
I just don't think it is right for a few riders to poke fun at 4 d riders and call them welfare. They are the heart and soul of the big D races and deserve more respect than some give them. i also feel it is ok if someone wants to host a race that has equal pay or upside down pay or 3/4 D appreciation race where the 1 D riders work the race and wear a shirt that says thanks for the donation all year; today is your day! | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 310
Location: North Dakota | I can't speak for anyone else on this thread, but I can say that not once in my life, no matter what caliber horse I'm on, have I EVER gone to a barrel race and said "Man, I really hope I win the 4D today". I think its safe to say that riders attend them to strive to run as fast and as good as they can. I've ran 4D times knowing I've worked harder than the 1D winners, and I've ran 1D times knowing there may be 4D runners that have worked just as hard as me. But in the end, the goal is always to run faster than the time before. Not once have I pulled a 4D check and thought I deserved as much as the 1D was paying out.
To those people saying "with out us 3/4D runners, the 1D wouldn't have as much money to win". Well, have you ever thought that if THEY didn't show up and set the 1D pace, YOU wouldn't be in the 3/4D? Maybe YOU would be running the 1D time then, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate the rest of the crowd saying you don't deserve the money you won. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| 1DSoon - 2016-03-28 4:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?
You can't be serious. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| shakeit0410 - 2016-03-28 4:46 PM..... To those people saying "with out us 3/4D runners, the 1D wouldn't have as much money to win". Well, have you ever thought that if THEY didn't show up and set the 1D pace, YOU wouldn't be in the 3/4D? Maybe YOU would be running the 1D time then, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate the rest of the crowd saying you don't deserve the money you won.
That makes no sense at all. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | Silly Filly - 2016-03-28 1:34 PM
rockette - 2016-03-28 12:11 PM chasendacash - 2016-03-28 12:36 PM I love equal payout. I don't have a 1D horse right now but I have won/placed in several in the past. My take on it is exactly as some have said before, there wouldn't be any decent payout if the 3D and beyond didn't show up. Can you imagine the uproar if the payout was based per the number of qualifiers in each D? Or if we had to get 'numbers' like the teamropers and were ranked before we ever got to the race?
And for those that demean the riders that aren't 'working their butts off' to become 1D - you guys are missing out on a whole lot of the FUN part of horses and barrel races. That's like saying you shouldn't snow ski unless your goal is to ski all blacks, shouldn't play golf unless you improve your handicap each year, shouldn't fish unless you catch more every time. Lighten up, this is supposed to fun.
I think that is a great idea! This way nobody has to complete with mediocre socialists. Have payouts of each D determined by how many qualified.
I wonder why it changed? I would be for that! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 310
Location: North Dakota | TXBO - 2016-03-28 4:49 PM
shakeit0410 - 2016-03-28 4:46 PM..... To those people saying "with out us 3/4D runners, the 1D wouldn't have as much money to win". Well, have you ever thought that if THEY didn't show up and set the 1D pace, YOU wouldn't be in the 3/4D? Maybe YOU would be running the 1D time then, and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate the rest of the crowd saying you don't deserve the money you won.
That makes no sense at all.
maybe try reading it again slower? Surely you know how a 4D works...
the riders that run in the 3/4 D are only in that division based on the time splits set by the winner of the 1D. If the 1D runners stop showing up, the times get slower, and those people that were 3/4D move up. If a 4D runner doesn't have any competition ahead of them and they run the fast times you can **** sure bet they'll be proud of their accomplishment, and wouldn't like anyone below them discrediting them. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| SoDak - 2016-03-28 1:21 PM I don't agree with these races at all so I won't be attending. My thoughts are why should my 1D horse that just placed 3rd in the 1D and outran 200+ horses be rewarded less than my colt that spooked and won the 4D (or just my colt that ran in the 4D in general). Makes 1D horses not as valuable if this were the case everywhere. Yes, I have 1D horses but I also have ones that won't run 1D times but I love running them and think it's great that I have the opportunity to get a check on them but still don't think they deserve more money than the 1D horse.
I understand that way of thinking. Along the same lines, why does your 4D winner deserve a check when those that ran faster times fell in the crack and went home with nothing? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | I sure get tired of reading that if I rode better or worked harder with my horse that we would be winning the 1D. If one of you bonafide 1D runners would like to take my horse and prove that, I'd be all for it. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 442
| OH Boy! I never meant to start anything. I didn't realize there were so many sides regarding this kind of payout. I was just asking what it was. Here in Colorado I have never seen any. And as the new president of our local barrel racing club I just want to try and learn as much as I can. | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | PalominoLuvr2241 - 2016-03-28 3:01 PM OH Boy! I never meant to start anything. I didn't realize there were so many sides regarding this kind of payout. I was just asking what it was. Here in Colorado I have never seen any. And as the new president of our local barrel racing club I just want to try and learn as much as I can.
You didn't start anything, these types of threads pop up every once in a while. You had an honest question; you just got more than you bargained for | |
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Saint Stacey
| Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy. | |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| SKM - 2016-03-28 6:50 PM
Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
WOW my slow horse out ran your slow horse. Ya that will work!!!! | |
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Ms. Elvis
Posts: 9606
Location: Running barrels or watching nascar | SKM - 2016-03-28 4:50 PM
Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
I dare anyone to try. | |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | SKM - 2016-03-28 6:50 PM Maybe we should just make it where the pro/1D horses aren't allowed to compete at a jackpot, make it where there is no entry fee and everyone gets a trophy. Seems like that would make a lot of people happy.
NO KIDDING!! So much to say but....I'm just going to walk away
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | TXBO - 2016-03-28 5:47 PM
1DSoon - 2016-03-28 4:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?
I suppose maybe I'm not as evolved as you are.
but yes I was serious. Did I miss something?
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Location: In my own little world | I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | 1DSoon - 2016-03-28 9:09 PM
TXBO - 2016-03-28 5:47 PM
1DSoon - 2016-03-28 4:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-03-28 5:04 PM I just can't believe that there are riders that think 3d and 4 d are welfare recipients when all the money comes from them. Las Vegas doesn't call the slot machine "gamblers" umm "winners" Wefare recipeints, even though they can't play cards for S#!t. Those big beautiful hotels are built by "losers" and Vegas is smart enough to treat the "losers" with some respect so they keep coming back. Honest question.
Based on your scenario here, what's the incentive to win the 1d?
I suppose maybe I'm not as evolved as you are.
but yes I was serious. Did I miss something?
The incentive to win the 1D should already be there. Why do I need to buy a different horse, spend more money, when I am happy? | |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | IF I had that 1D barrel horse, it would all come down to the math.
Strait up jp, rodeo. 30 entry's. Might pay two holes. Figure out entry fee vs payout.
Progressive BR. Number of entries, percentage of payout.
Equal payout, number of entries. ( the more entries = more payout )
then you attend that event and take home the $$ | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| Silly Filly - 2016-03-28 4:57 PM
I sure get tired of reading that if I rode better or worked harder with my horse that we would be winning the 1D. If one of you bonafide 1D runners would like to take my horse and prove that, I'd be all for it.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door.
Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!! | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SC Wrangler - 2016-03-29 8:57 AM ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!!
Ditto | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | ropenrun - 2016-03-29 2:03 AM
I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door.
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | What are buy backs? | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Longneck - 2016-03-29 10:46 AM What are buy backs?
Its when you do away with your first run and buy another run. | |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 9:08 AM SC Wrangler - 2016-03-29 8:57 AM ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!!
DOUBLE DITTO !!!!!!
It all comes down to "personal" choice. If you don't "like" them, then don't go to them! Barrel racing evolves around the choices that we make....Years ago the WPRA paid very few places but the members p*ffed and moaned until they added paying more places....why should those "bottom" five or six" get paid? Because barrel racing EVOLVES.....like it or not......... | |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 11:01 AM
Longneck - 2016-03-29 10:46 AM What are buy backs?
Its when you do away with your first run and buy another run.
Thanks, Roxie! | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | you can't help but notice that a vast majority of the folks in favor of equal pay out are not running in the 1d
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | NJJ - 2016-03-29 11:02 AM Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 9:08 AM SC Wrangler - 2016-03-29 8:57 AM ropenrun - 2016-03-29 3:03 AM I don't care what the format is. You enter if you want or you don't. And as a producer I am always thinking outside the box and coming up with alternative formats that attract people. You have to go with what is of interest in your specific area. Western Canada with many of their jackpots do .7 splits. I don't care for them because it isn't what I am used to. That doesn't make them wrong, it happens to be what works well for them. And if you sanction with an association, you go by whatever their rules happen to be. ABRA is .7 splits, NBHA is .5 and 1, one rodeo assn pays 5 places with 60 entries, another pays 10 places with 50 entries. Payoff rules are set to what works for them in their local area or region or whatever the assn wants it to be..
I also remember when the 3D which evolved to the 4D and 5D formats first started up and some of the pro girls saying this was the stupidest thing they had ever heard of and would never go. Hmm,I see the names of those same individuals entering the 4D's now that they are long in the tooth and don't put on the miles they once used to. Or they figured out it was a great place to season their young horses without having to pay a $120 entry fee. I have produced progressive, equal, buy backs, and a variety of other formats and people either come or they don't. It worked well for me because I know longer had my pro horse and couldn't afford another one because my focus changed to making sure my kids were mounted. I was starting over at the bottom. And when the wolves of the area don't show up, it gives someone else the chance to win that might be a donator most of the time. And maybe that was just the incentive that person needed to give them a little more desire, figure out a way to save more money to buy a better horse or whatever. I don't look at any format as negative. If it works then there was some positives in there somewhere. Our local weekly rodeo series changed from a standard rodeo payoff barrel race to a 3D with 1/2 splits payoff. It went from 10 entries to 45 entries. Ph., but that isn't rodeo some said. Well it might not be but it increased the number of entries which increased the payout, increased the gate from all the grandmas, grandpas, cousins, neighbors who went to watch the kid next door, made the concession more money because of the bigger gate, and it put more money in the contractors pocket. You do what you have to do to make it work for the majority. Sometimes you have to throw tradition out the door. Wow a calm, logical voice of reason!!!
Very true to what Norma said Its just to bad the Producers cant please everybody | |
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A very grounded girl
Posts: 5052
Location: Moving soon..... | 1DSoon - 2016-03-29 11:10 AM you can't help but notice that a vast majority of the folks in favor of equal pay out are not running in the 1d
I have seen a 1D horse go out and make a terrible run and place in that "equal payout" barrel race and not complain. As previously stated, it your preference. If you hate it don't go. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| 1DSoon - 2016-03-29 11:10 AM you can't help but notice that a vast majority of the folks in favor of equal pay out are not running in the 1d
You'll also notice that the vast majority of barrel racers are not 1D competitors. It's no different than any other sport that uses a handicap to encourage recreational participation like golf, tennis or even team roping.
Unlike team roping, even with equal pay, 1D barrel racers get the luxury of higher payouts from the larger participation from 2, 3 and 4D participants. Low numbered ropings almost always have a higher participation rate and payout than the high numbered roping. Be careful what you wish for. Without those recreational barrel racers, producers can't make a profit on just 1D competitors. Shows disappear and so do large payouts. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Here's a payout from a recent large USTRC roping. I bet the sharks would kill to have equal payout.
Open ($4,000)
#15 Handicap ($8,960)
#13 Handicap ($14,410)
#12 ($8,480)
#11 ($17,280)
#10 ($23,770)
#8 PickDraw ($24,810)
#9 ($34,250) | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be |
The main difference with that is that each roping is being run individually.
even if they run the 8/9 toghter they are seperate ropings. And typically the higher number ropings have higher fees.
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Location: In my own little world | Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 10:01 AM Longneck - 2016-03-29 10:46 AM What are buy backs? Its when you do away with your first run and buy another run.
Yep, a buyback is like a mulligan, a do-over. You weren't happy with your 1st run, you pay another entry fee (of which when I produce I don't take out my producer percentage on the buyback. I just figure the portion that actually goes into the payoff and that is the fee for the additional run). You can buyback a run for any reason. But whatever your time is on the 2nd run, that is the time you stick with. So if you didn't like your 1st run because it was sloppy, but you got a time, you can purchase another run and if you happen to tip on your second run, your official time is a NT. It does work well if you have a jackpot after Dec 1st when futurity colts can start making official runs. That's when I mainly do buyback races because they will often take advantage of it. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| 1DSoon - 2016-03-29 11:55 AM The main difference with that is that each roping is being run individually.
even if they run the 8/9 toghter they are seperate ropings. And typically the higher number ropings have higher fees.
Bingo! That's the whole point.
Without the recreational competitors, payouts go down and fees go up.
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Location: In my own little world | 1DSoon - 2016-03-29 10:10 AM you can't help but notice that a vast majority of the folks in favor of equal pay out are not running in the 1d
For starters, that is rather presumptuoius. I have seen a lot of instances where those running in the 1D were quite happy with equal payout when it meant the event got 2x the entries with equal payout rather than what the payout was when it was run in a traditional format. Because of that, equal payout paid them more.
But location also plays a huge part in all of it. You cater to the majority. I have always said that those with 1D horses have more options than those who don't. They can compete on the rodeo level or slot raesc, etc if they choose because they are capable of winning money there. Those with 2-4D horses are limited to jackpots if they want a chance to win money. You do what you need to do to perpetuate the industry.
And I can't tell you how many times I have heard remarks on how many places are paid to barrel racers at WPRA sanctioned rodeos. A high profile rodeo cowboy and NFR contestant back in the day always used to joke that the WPRA paid so many places in the barrel race that when they ran out of money the rest got ribbons! As NJJ said, it didn't used to be that way. I'm old enough to have been a part of that. Now they might pay 11 holes with last getting a check for $60. You sure don't see that 11th place person complaining about that itty bitty check!
As far as comparing to team roping, there are a lot of ropings that offer "quaranteed" payout in higher numbered ropings. To a degree, it is the same gamble as equal payout. Sometimes it is to the advantage of the roper, sometimes the producer. If a roper figures "quaranteed" is going to screw him/her over and might not win as much they make their own choice to enter or not enter. Everything we do in life is about choices, some we make are good and some are not so good. Might as well be learned at an early age because it is reality.
But again, it all goes back to support the event or don't. If it works for the majority, that is who producers are going to cater to no matter the payout choice, otherwise they aren't making money either. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
This response is for the gal who thinks it is easy to jump on a " trained" horse and go win. I have been running a " trained" horse for the last 11 yrs and every run still takes effort from me. Some horses no matter how easy they looked to ride are not. So anytime you want to make a run on my trained 1d horse I will pay your fees to let you see just how easy it is! | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Longneck - 2016-03-29 11:08 AM Southtxponygirl - 2016-03-29 11:01 AM Longneck - 2016-03-29 10:46 AM What are buy backs? Its when you do away with your first run and buy another run. Thanks, Roxie!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| barrelbasher - 2016-03-29 3:23 PM
FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Ok, I didn't read all of the comments because it started irritating me with politics being brought in (seriously? So STUPID).
I used to run a solid paint horse (horse in my profile picture), the first real barrel horse I'd ever rode, and I was training her myself (ZERO barrel anything before we got her). She was a 4yo, rough past, with a new rider. I'm sure people thought it was hilarious watching us try to get around the pattern at a slow lope. But I didn't care, I was happy enough to place in the 4D, even if it was only $15 at times.
Flash forward 4 years, and this same horse and rider won a state top 10 award in the 2D, I was just as proud of my horse to be winning in the 2D as I was when she was placing in the 4D. Sure, the money was better up there, but it wasn't the point.
If you are in these 4D races for the money, you are in the wrong part of the sport. That's not the point of the 4D race. I've been to over 200 barrel races with this horse, and I can count the amount of times I've made my money back on two hands (7, to be exact). But that doesn't matter to me. If it mattered, I'd be running a top papered, bought trained $20,000 horse - not the horse we traded a western pleasure reject for, who had no training at all, and who has papers that has literally no barrel horses anywhere.
What is the point to this monologue, you might ask?
The point is, why do people feel that the amount of money you earn is indicative of being better than anyone else? I would never say that the people in the 1D were better than us just because they win more money. We worked harder than them to be there, we worked harder than them to stay there.
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Money should not be the sole reason you barrel race. If it is, I'm afraid that you are in the wrong area at the 4Ds.
This response is for the gal who thinks it is easy to jump on a " trained" horse and go win. I have been running a " trained" horse for the last 11 yrs and every run still takes effort from me. Some horses no matter how easy they looked to ride are not. So anytime you want to make a run on my trained 1d horse I will pay your fees to let you see just how easy it is!
I've actually took someone up on an offer like this one time. They thought I wouldn't last a run on her since I never race 1D horses.... we placed 2nd in the 1D (she won the 1D with her normal rider). Now, she was not an easy ride, but she was a hell of a lot easier than my horse was to run. Hands down - she was a push style, which I really like. Don't think that because the horse is a lower division that it is easier to ride either, because that is often not the case.
I also think people are thinking of my term 'trained' too vaguely. I didn't think of all the definitions of it when I typed it up. So I apologize for the vagueness of that - When I used the word 'trained' in the 'bought trained' sense. I meant the automatics. The horses where you strap yourself on and hold on tight because that horse is running barrels with or without you. I have plenty of friends who bought horses that were taught barrels by someone else, but they were not 'bought trained'. You still have to ride it.
I feel like that has irritated some people that thought I was saying all horses bought with barrel training are easy to ride, and that wasn't what I meant. I just used a regional term that got misunderstood. Sorry. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 927
Location: Iowa | Interesting idea. It all comes down to picking where you want to go. If you don't like the idea then go to another race with the payout your interested in competing for. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | PalominoLuvr2241 - 2016-03-28 5:01 PM OH Boy! I never meant to start anything. I didn't realize there were so many sides regarding this kind of payout. I was just asking what it was. Here in Colorado I have never seen any. And as the new president of our local barrel racing club I just want to try and learn as much as I can.
Oh you didnt start anything its just happens on here some times. Theres some that think that they are just smarter then others. And that can be pretty intertaining | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Karol - 2016-03-29 10:24 AM
1DSoon - 2016-03-29 11:10 AM you can't help but notice that a vast majority of the folks in favor of equal pay out are not running in the 1d
I have seen a 1D horse go out and make a terrible run and place in that "equal payout" barrel race and not complain. As previously stated, it your preference. If you hate it don't go.
I know many 1D riders that love the equal payouts because they know anyone can have a bad day. They know that if its their turn to have a bad day they still get a good payout if they place in a lower division. | |
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Saint Stacey
| For the love of all that is holy....PLEASE LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!! | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
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FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM
Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders.
Nobody is saying one's value as a person is dependent on how much money they have won. But don't tell me that it doesn't affect the value of the horse.
We have now redefined what the word "competition" is. Last time I checked a completion is judged or timed and ranked best/fastest performance.
Someone is ALWAYS unhappy.
First come the divisional races so folks have a better opportunity to make some money back.
Then we have rollovers so that people don't have to "run their horses to death" . A Assn around here has TWO runs and no average per group (and with the 4D format you are lucky to get your entry fee back if you win the 1D ) but then want rollovers at NBHA, IBRA shows because they don't want to put the extra run on their horse to run open and youth/masters whatever.
NOW I see buy backs so that the same people want another chance if they have a crappy run.
Like I said before, I liked it a whole lot better when there was a novice horse/novice rider. They said that people misrepresented their eligibility. It is SO much cleared now........NOT
Sure will be glad when my new horse is seasoned. Last weekend I spent 16 hours to attend a barrel race 100 miles away. I could have driven 300-350 miles to enter a rodeo and spent about the same amount of time and money. There. There is my whine for the day. Y'all get equal payout, I get equal whine time. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| rodeoveteran - 2016-03-31 9:52 AM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Nobody is saying one's value as a person is dependent on how much money they have won. But don't tell me that it doesn't affect the value of the horse. We have now redefined what the word "competition" is. Last time I checked a completion is judged or timed and ranked best/fastest performance. Someone is ALWAYS unhappy. First come the divisional races so folks have a better opportunity to make some money back. Then we have rollovers so that people don't have to "run their horses to death" . A Assn around here has TWO runs and no average per group (and with the 4D format you are lucky to get your entry fee back if you win the 1D ) but then want rollovers at NBHA, IBRA shows because they don't want to put the extra run on their horse to run open and youth/masters whatever. NOW I see buy backs so that the same people want another chance if they have a crappy run. Like I said before, I liked it a whole lot better when there was a novice horse/novice rider. They said that people misrepresented their eligibility. It is SO much cleared now........NOT Sure will be glad when my new horse is seasoned. Last weekend I spent 16 hours to attend a barrel race 100 miles away. I could have driven 300-350 miles to enter a rodeo and spent about the same amount of time and money. There. There is my whine for the day. Y'all get equal payout, I get equal whine time.
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rodeomom3 - 2016-03-31 10:39 AM rodeoveteran - 2016-03-31 9:52 AM FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-03-26 1:02 PM Saying someone is worse than someone else just because they earn less money? That is just wrong. It takes zero effort to jump on a trained horse and win. Anyone can do that. It's those horses that are hard to ride, who don't just do it themselves, those prove the real riders. It's those guys who can be asked to get on a problem horse they have never rode before, and make a nice run on it, those are the real riders. Nobody is saying one's value as a person is dependent on how much money they have won. But don't tell me that it doesn't affect the value of the horse. We have now redefined what the word "competition" is. Last time I checked a completion is judged or timed and ranked best/fastest performance. Someone is ALWAYS unhappy. First come the divisional races so folks have a better opportunity to make some money back. Then we have rollovers so that people don't have to "run their horses to death" . A Assn around here has TWO runs and no average per group (and with the 4D format you are lucky to get your entry fee back if you win the 1D ) but then want rollovers at NBHA, IBRA shows because they don't want to put the extra run on their horse to run open and youth/masters whatever. NOW I see buy backs so that the same people want another chance if they have a crappy run. Like I said before, I liked it a whole lot better when there was a novice horse/novice rider. They said that people misrepresented their eligibility. It is SO much cleared now........NOT Sure will be glad when my new horse is seasoned. Last weekend I spent 16 hours to attend a barrel race 100 miles away. I could have driven 300-350 miles to enter a rodeo and spent about the same amount of time and money. There. There is my whine for the day. Y'all get equal payout, I get equal whine time.
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What is an equal pay barrel race?