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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
  
Location: NC | I have an 8 yr mare that something is going on with. Shes stumped at least 2 vets plus an experienced horseman. Weve tested for lymes 2x with both times being neg. 1st vet x-ray stifles, ultra sounded suspensories, tested for lymes and injected stifles thinking that was it (swore it was stifles). Didnt fix the issue. 2nd vet at first thought it was stifles but then watched her move undersaddle and said higher up. Retested for lymes saying it was. Lymes came back negative. Gave me previcox for her once a day. Not helping her.
Backround: have had her 4yrs. Up till about year and half ago was great to ride. Could hop on bareback and was fine. Then started bucking when asked to canter. Thought was just being a brat and kept going. Went to a clinic and clinician was very adamant something was up. Had her vet checked by 1st vet. laid her off a couple months (boarding at a wierd barn with strange rules) moved the horses and then had vet out again in which she injected stifles. gave her some time off and started working again. she was still off. had 2nd opinion out. His diagnosis was lyme (neg). Said next step would be to do internal sonogram for ovarian cyst or bone scan hind end at a hospital.
The only time you notice her off is when you ask her to collect. She drags her hind end. And when you ask her to canter sometimes shes fine, then other times shes flinging her tail around and throwing bucks.
Has anyone ever had an experience with an ovarian cyst? if so what was treatment? Or anyone have any other opinions?
Sorry for how long this is! Just not sure where to go from here and unfortunately not enough money to keep spending if going to have to get another horse. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| First thought before ovarian cysts was definitely ovarian cysts. 2nd ulcers. 3rd kissing spine. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
 
| epm look up nero test. my gelding to a tee. get tested at pathogenes. google epm look at blogs. horse not exactly right. spent about 5k vet gave up carried to another vet he diagnosed but he tested at uc davis said neg, patho genes positive.
Edited by daisycake123 2016-03-24 7:33 PM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Kissing spine?? |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Since its a Mare I will say ovaries.. if vet palpates her he can usually also tell if there is a issue..
while your at vets xray hocks.. Truthfully a cyst can be very painful so Id not work her until you figure it out..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-03-24 8:24 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I would test for EPM. If that comes back negative,then ck ovaries. But sounds like EPM to me. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Sounds a lot like mine but he never bucked. Have a rectal exam done. Cheap and easy. They can feel if her pelvis is asymmetrical. Mine had a pelvis break :( Tried some things and he turned out to be a 5 yr old pasture pet. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Did you xray hocks? the tail flinging and it happening at certain times makes me say ovaries.. but sometimes Hocks will make them drag and both are painful.. Epm is always peoples go to and other stuff is overlooked.. the pain issue to me doesnt point to epm Imho.. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | IMO, it sounds like it's neurological. I would draw blood for EPM and take some back x rays for Kissing Spine.... but I am no expert and have no experience with cysts. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-03-24 10:34 PM
Sounds a lot like mine but he never bucked. Have a rectal exam done. Cheap and easy. They can feel if her pelvis is asymmetrical. Mine had a pelvis break :( Tried some things and he turned out to be a 5 yr old pasture pet.
This is probably my worst thought. Im sorry for you! Unfortunately we cant afford a pasture pet so if this happens i would have to find her a new home.
Going to try and find a video of how shes moving or will take one tonight.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-25 9:46 AM
Did you xray hocks? the tail flinging and it happening at certain times makes me say ovaries.. but sometimes Hocks will make them drag and both are painful.. Epm is always peoples go to and other stuff is overlooked.. the pain issue to me doesnt point to epm Imho..
We didnt x-ray hocks. Both vets flex tested and said her hocks looked fine.
I also should mention she is very playful in her paddock and likes to run and play. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Racer4eva - 2016-03-25 11:57 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-03-24 10:34 PM Sounds a lot like mine but he never bucked. Have a rectal exam done. Cheap and easy. They can feel if her pelvis is asymmetrical. Mine had a pelvis break :( Tried some things and he turned out to be a 5 yr old pasture pet. This is probably my worst thought. Im sorry for you! Unfortunately we cant afford a pasture pet so if this happens i would have to find her a new home. Going to try and find a video of how shes moving or will take one tonight.
depending on the severity, most can still be broodmares. Mine was a simple case, he was in pasture and I actually checked their water and broke ice in the winter on my way to work. Saw him nearly daily. But as long as they were standing on all 4s, I went about my business. We think he must have slipped on ice/mud etc. Never knew until I started his training back up for the futurities and he just wasn't right. Especially collected up and loping smaller circles. We go to the right barrel first but he would blow out of his 2nd barrel and yet 3rd was fine. He won a handful of buckles and several AQHA points before we had him diagnosed. Everyone wanted to say hocks or stifles. Even had him injected to no improvment. 3 vets and I lost count but guessing $2500 later we did a simple rectal exam and found the issue. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 146
Location: Tuttle Oklahoma | It could be an ovarian cyst. I just had one with an inflamed ovary because she had never been sewn up and whenever she would gather herself to run air would come into her uterus what would then push on her ovaries. She felt sound at a walk and a trot but would drag and swing her right rear leg in at a lope (it was only her right ovary that was bothering her). One day she would be perfect and the next she would be slinging her head and trying to buck! My vet sewed part of her up in the back and gave her a shot that made her very sick to get all her hormones lined back out; her ovaries were very overactive and she was constantly coming in and out of heat. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Racer4eva - 2016-03-25 12:00 PM Bibliafarm - 2016-03-25 9:46 AM Did you xray hocks? the tail flinging and it happening at certain times makes me say ovaries.. but sometimes Hocks will make them drag and both are painful.. Epm is always peoples go to and other stuff is overlooked.. the pain issue to me doesnt point to epm Imho.. We didnt x-ray hocks. Both vets flex tested and said her hocks looked fine. I also should mention she is very playful in her paddock and likes to run and play.
Mine does too 99.9% of people would have no idea he had any issue at all. Even when I was warming him up he looked fine. Had we known his pelvis was fractured and put him on stall rest, I would have my horse back. But we didn't so we gave him over a year off out to pasture once we did find out. He came back good and then slowly had issues again. My vet said most horses with pelvis fractures that are not obvious (dropped hip etc) are diagnoses with stifle, hock problems. Because their sore back makes them sore all over the back end. Mine had SI issues to start with. Had those injected and no help. A chiro.massage would get me 1 good run out of him. I just wish I had known what was wrong. I still feel horrible that I kept him going with such a huge problem. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | I would test for:
Kissing spine
PSSM1
PSSM2
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdbE0iDmJT4 Heres a small clip from today. Its not totally obvious until under saddle. Talked to 2nd vet today and will schedule a palpation/internal check next week. Unfortunately office was closed by the time he called back. |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | Just because X-rays are clean on stifle doesn't mean it's good. I went through similar issues and several vets! I kept telling them it was the right stifle and they said no because X-rays and Ultrasound were clear. Finally went to Dr Tanner in Elgin and he asked if anyone scoped the joint. No and when he did he found an old fracture and cartilage damage. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | From the video Id check pelvis |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-25 8:26 PM
From the video Id check pelvis
I am seeing it too in the pelvis. I hope I am wrong but she moves uneven. Trotting straight away I think you would see it better. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Have you had her SI checked. Also her hocks look sore to me. She is real stiff when she travels. |
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 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| I had a mare that was doing EXACTLY what your mare is. After spending upwards of 5,000 we discovered it was her hip and she was deemed light trail sound for the rest of her days. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I sent you a pm |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-03-25 11:08 PM
Bibliafarm - 2016-03-25 8:26 PM
From the video Id check pelvis
I am seeing it too in the pelvis. I hope I am wrong but she moves uneven. Trotting straight away I think you would see it better.
I did get a video of that yesterday as well. Ill upload later and post it |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | Thistle2011 - 2016-03-26 7:56 AM
I had a mare that was doing EXACTLY what your mare is. After spending upwards of 5,000 we discovered it was her hip and she was deemed light trail sound for the rest of her days.
This is my biggest worry. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | So you have only injected stifles not blistered? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | Yes only injected did not blister them. It looks to be higher up then stifles though.
Heres a video from yesterday of her trotting towards and away. Please excuse me lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FY7_xiUl0 |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I couldn't see on my phone, but does she drag her toes? Mine started to square off his toes in back the worse he got. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | when you stand her square and take a photo from behind oes she stand hips even or is she lopsided or one hip lower?.. her pelvis may be out or have Sacroilliac joint issues .its hard to tell much from the video but it does look like shes out in her pelvis or have soreness there.. Did a chiro look at her? shes lopsided..BUT Im not vet .. so I would not work her at all until you figure it out.. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | It sounds like to me her stifle is locking which means you should blister or split her stifles. Trot her in a circle around you and send me the video. Has your vet blocked up her leg? You can block up till she goes sound. Keep her in a stall do not turn her out. I would give her bute for 5-10 days. I would Butacort sweat her whole hip. Then on day 5 I would give her some banamine wait 3 hours and trot her see if she is sound. If she is more sound it's muscular if it isn't her stifles need blistered. |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Radiographs will not show anything with the issue I'm talking about bc it's soft tissue. The ligament is to long in the stifle, the blister will scar the ligament and shorten it. It would be as if our ligaments in our knee were to long when we bent our knee we wouldn't be able to bring our leg forward. Same premis. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 133
| Watching the video, she looks short in the back. She has a nice cadence bounce to her movement :) I hate mystery lamenesses! So frustrating... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | Bibliafarm - 2016-03-26 9:20 PM
when you stand her square and take a photo from behind oes she stand hips even or is she lopsided or one hip lower?.. her pelvis may be out or have Sacroilliac joint issues .its hard to tell much from the video but it does look like shes out in her pelvis or have soreness there.. Did a chiro look at her? shes lopsided..BUT Im not vet .. so I would not work her at all until you figure it out..
I do have a pic from behind which ill post later. Had her chiro'd after she started bucking and he said she was fine. Not really out anywhere.
Other thing i forgot to mention is if you trot her long or let her trot her speed she doesnt look off. its only when you ask for a slow/collected trot.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | mollibtexan - 2016-03-26 10:02 PM
It sounds like to me her stifle is locking which means you should blister or split her stifles. Trot her in a circle around you and send me the video. Has your vet blocked up her leg? You can block up till she goes sound. Keep her in a stall do not turn her out. I would give her bute for 5-10 days. I would Butacort sweat her whole hip. Then on day 5 I would give her some banamine wait 3 hours and trot her see if she is sound. If she is more sound it's muscular if it isn't her stifles need blistered.
1st vet blocked her stifles, and she looked sounder but it was only on the lunge line. When first vet came out to block and inject i had given her a few months off due to everything and she just had me lunge her. Its a big difference lunging her to riding her.
Forgot to add: she isnt currently being ridden. I want to figure out whats going on with her.
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | if you want to check for sticky stifles put her in deeper sand round pen and video the hind end as she goes around. Often you can see it catch and they will be hesitant to pick up the lope. they will do the old trot trot trot first trying to get everything lined up before taking that lead instead of just transitioning right away. When it catches it will scare them and they often buck. then just go on like nothing happened as long as you do not go in too small of a circle then they will swish the tail |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah293/barrel_racer4eva/Mobile%2...
Heres a pic from behind. Have to call early tomorrow to set up an appt. Hope everyone had a great easter!!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | kwanatha - 2016-03-27 1:30 PM
if you want to check for sticky stifles put her in deeper sand round pen and video the hind end as she goes around. Often you can see it catch and they will be hesitant to pick up the lope. they will do the old trot trot trot first trying to get everything lined up before taking that lead instead of just transitioning right away. When it catches it will scare them and they often buck. then just go on like nothing happened as long as you do not go in too small of a circle then they will swish the tail
She will swish her tail and buck while going around perimeter of arena. She will also immediately jump into a lope when on lunge and on her back |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | Update: vet was out wed for internal ultrasound and palpation and found nothing. Took blood to check hormone levels. If that comes back fine, not sure what else to do  |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Blister stifles |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | It has nothing to do with anything showing on ultrasound or radiographs. It's in their movement. |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | When you have this type of lameness I've always been told by vets to keep riding until they find the problem. If you have laid off of the horse the issue may not be as prevalent since rested. The stifles will get better with rest but sore up again with work depending on what the issue is. |
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horse lameness-stumped