|
|
 Expert
Posts: 2128
  
| So, two horses by the same stud and out of mares that are full sisters can be considered "full blooded siblings"? |
|
| |
|
 Midget Lover
  
Location: Kentucky | I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
Edited by Murphy 2016-03-28 10:06 AM
|
|
| |
|
I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Yes, if two horses are by the same sire and out of two different mares who are full sisters, the resultant foals could be considered "full siblings by blood". |
|
| |
|
 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Murphy - 2016-03-28 10:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
Me too! |
|
| |
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| 3/4 siblings |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Here is an examploe of 2 mares I consider Full Sisters "in blood". Same sire but out of 2 full sisters:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/blue+grass+bounce
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bluegrass+kin |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| streakysox - 2016-03-28 1:02 PM
3/4 siblings
This is only if the mares are half siblings.... full sibling dams by the same stallions would be full siblings by blood. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 10:44 AM Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling.
It is just industry standard. I don't know who came up with it, but I follow it. A stallion can have 100's and sometimes 1000's of foals on the ground whereas a mare will never have even a small percentage of that even with ET, ISCI, etc.
It just makes send to me, so I don't argue it. For example, I think it's a silly thing to say my DFP daughter is a half sibling to Latte. Ok, big whooop....DFP's has 1,036 AQHA registered foals so am I going to name off every one that did something notable? No. Now if she was a half sibling to Latte via the dam then that is something special and worth mentioning. It also goes back to emphasis of having a strong maternal line. |
|
| |
|
 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 1:44 PM Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling.
You are correct about DNA, but in the horse world they are only considered half siblings if they have the same dam. The reason for this is pretty simple, stallions produce multiple foals per year and this terminology started when a mare only produced one and it was easier to keep track. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 12:44 PM Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling.
True, but for arguments sake of course, lets say your father had a child with your mothers sister. Genetically you two would be almost the same. Heck lets say your father had a child with your mothers twin sister... now we are really getting complicated lol. I know a couple of people who are "double first cousins". A set of brothers marries and has children with a set of sisters. The resulting childrens DNA is similar to that of siblings. |
|
| |
|
  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Its all about advertising. I saw one this morning form a very well know futurity ridder. It helps sell a horse...makes no difference to me. |
|
| |
|
| WrapSnap - 2016-03-28 10:07 AM
Yes, if two horses are by the same sire and out of two different mares who are full sisters, the resultant foals could be considered "full siblings by blood".
wRAP ... you are correct ...
and if they are by the same stallion and same mare ... is when you use the terms
FULL BROTHERS OR FULL SISTERS .. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | I have seen these terminoligy used a few times. I believe in effort to show the lineage more than anything, maybe for marketing later. In the places I have seen it she very clearly stated that the mare is a full sister to sos and so. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| scwebster - 2016-03-28 4:18 PM
OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 12:44 PM Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling.
I actually have a good friend has a twin sister and they married brothers.
Anyhow, thanks for all the clarification. I'm not in the breeding industry and was just wondering if this was a science based thing or just a "what is appropriate description for advertising" purposes.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2128
| Whiteboy - 2016-03-28 5:33 PM Its all about advertising. I saw one this morning form a very well know futurity ridder. It helps sell a horse...makes no difference to me.
Pretty sure that person is who inspired me to post this thread. Had me thinking.."I need some clarification from BHW" :) |
|
| |
|
Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | There is a stud standing locally that is Out of Holland Ease by a full sister to Corona Chick (mare is Corona Cowgirl). I kind of referred to his myself as a Vertual full brother HAHAHA. Made that up myself  . But I guess technically its a full brother?
|
|
| |
|
 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Swannranch - 2016-03-29 10:07 AM There is a stud standing locally that is Out of Holland Ease by a full sister to Corona Chick (mare is Corona Cowgirl). I kind of referred to his myself as a Vertual full brother HAHAHA. Made that up myself . But I guess technically its a full brother?
She was calling him a full brother to Corona Cartel on facebook at first and caught a ton of flack. The difference is that Corona Chick is a Blue Hen producer where Corona Cowgirl is a less than mediocre producer (compared to C Chick). And then you have the sire records of both...She would be better off advertising that stallion on his own merit-whether he is raced or had any offpring running vs bringing to attention the comparisons of competition level/sire level of Corona Cartel. Because based on that, most would rather breed to a son of CC that stands for $750-$1500 than to her stud that I believe is around the same stud fee. Not saying he is not a decent stallion and I am not bashing him. But I think the advertising scheme would hinder his breeding prospects vs help him out. In part because it was the mare herself I believe that made that stallion the sire and sire of sires that he is and not Holland Ease. |
|
| |
|
Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-03-29 12:16 PM Swannranch - 2016-03-29 10:07 AM There is a stud standing locally that is Out of Holland Ease by a full sister to Corona Chick (mare is Corona Cowgirl). I kind of referred to his myself as a Vertual full brother HAHAHA. Made that up myself . But I guess technically its a full brother?
I think he only has one full brother, King Corona. |
|
| |
|
Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Murphy - 2016-03-29 10:50 AM
wyoming barrel racer - 2016-03-29 12:16 PM Swannranch - 2016-03-29 10:07 AM There is a stud standing locally that is Out of Holland Ease by a full sister to Corona Chick (mare is Corona Cowgirl). I kind of referred to his myself as a Vertual full brother HAHAHA. Made that up myself . But I guess technically its a full brother?
I think you are correct without looking her produce record up |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1261
|
This seems very confusing to me as even full siblings (same sire, same dam) may share as little as 25% of the same DNA (as each parent passes half their DNA each time but which half and what combination of genes is going to be different each time). So to me considering the two mares may only share 25% of the same DNA I wouldn't consider their foals by the same stud full siblings. I mean I get its a thing people say but I just don't think a Foal out of the same mare is the same as one out of her full sister. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1261
| OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 10:44 AM
Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling.
They don't necessarily share the same 50% from the sire though. Yes he passed on 50% of his genes but which 50% he passes varys and because of this even full siblings may share as little as 25% of the same DNA.
But I also do not understand how they wouldn't be considered half siblings. I have heard people say you can breed two half siblings by the same sire to one another but never two out of the same dam. There was some clever rhyme that went with it something about a womb but I can't remember it lol. I wouldn't ever breed siblings of any sort together but always wondered what difference it made when people did! |
|
| |
|
Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | wishes4kissez - 2016-04-01 2:33 AM OutlawsLastDance - 2016-03-28 10:44 AM Murphy - 2016-03-28 11:05 AM I was always told:
By the same stud, out of the same mare = full sibling
By different studs, out of the same mare = half sibling
By the same stud, out of different mares = not half sibling
I'm curious how the highlighted is figured? If they have the same father, they have 50% of the same DNA. The same as if my father had had a child with a woman other than my mother, that child would be my half sibling. They don't necessarily share the same 50% from the sire though. Yes he passed on 50% of his genes but which 50% he passes varys and because of this even full siblings may share as little as 25% of the same DNA. But I also do not understand how they wouldn't be considered half siblings. I have heard people say you can breed two half siblings by the same sire to one another but never two out of the same dam. There was some clever rhyme that went with it something about a womb but I can't remember it lol. I wouldn't ever breed siblings of any sort together but always wondered what difference it made when people did!
Cowans are breeding sons of Sun Frost to daughters of Sun Frost with great success. I have done it also, bred our son of Sun Frost to one of our daughters and got a popping nice colt. He is just two now and I have held him back rather than sell him because I want to se how he rides then I will have a better opinion on how it worked. |
|
| |
"Full blooded" sibling