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 Elite Veteran
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Location: GODS country | Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck..... |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
 
| None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry. |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I switched back to Safe Choice Original. I also feed my broodmares alfalfa pellets |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | readytorodeo - 2016-04-19 8:12 AM
None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry.
I do feed Vitalize and have not seen a change yet (at 30 days). Kool Speed Plus is not in my area. We don't have a lot to choose from! |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | FLITASTIC - 2016-04-19 9:06 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol
How do you go about finding out? OK-KS-NE area |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| ecranch - 2016-04-19 7:24 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-19 9:06 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol
How do you go about finding out? OK-KS-NE area
Look at your TAG on the feed bag it will have a code. Nutrena feeds are easy. It will say the date it was made AND the mill code ( 3 letters). Out here in CA some of my bags say STK ( Stockton) and some say CG ( Casa Grande, AZ). Safechoice line always comes from STK where the pro force comes from CG. Don't bother calling the manufacturer. THey will feed you a line of crap about safety protocols etc. Google the mill and call the mill directly. Ask them if they produce medicated cattle feeds in the same facility. Be prepared to be on hold a while while they hope you just hang up, or transfer you to a bunch of people. Be persistent. I called Nutrena once and they told me my mill was NOT cattle feed mill, but the mill directly said they did. |
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 10:19 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 10:28 AM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Ultium definitely, however, downside for me was that it made my gelding hot. But he filled out and looked slick. Shined like a penny. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:16 AM
ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination ) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
She is wormed regularly, teeth just floated (1 sharp edge, otherwise good) and she is on free choice prairie hay and flake of alfalfa am/pm....now that pasture is starting to come up, she will be on pasture 24/7. Added oats as well with Vitalize supplement.
There just isn't any "bloom" or "glow" to her anymore.....not slicking out.....almost ribby.
And she performs and trains great. Not moody....she has been treated for ulcers and that is not a problem anymore. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Safechoice is NOT a safe choice at all. I would NEVER buy anything from Nutrena. Between the two Ultium at least isn't putting your horse at risk for poisoning. Many horses at my barn are on it. They all do look decent so as far as processed feeds go, I'd say it's a relatively good one. Personally, if the RG isn't really working for you, I'd try oats, flax, and alfalfa before going to a pellet. |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much.
Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: GODS country | Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:45 AM
Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
It is a split between prairie and brome hay, which is the best quality I can get my hands on in my area. The alfalfa is great! |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | ecranch - 2016-04-19 11:12 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:45 AM
Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
It is a split between prairie and brome hay, which is the best quality I can get my hands on in my area. The alfalfa is great!
Has your hay been tested? You could feed more of the alfalfa, or find some cubes or pellets even. By increasing the alfalfa forage, they will consume less of the grass hay. These are merely suggestions as alternatives. There are always options one way or the other. I hope that helps. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | ecranch - 2016-04-19 10:30 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:16 AM
ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination ) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
She is wormed regularly, teeth just floated (1 sharp edge, otherwise good ) and she is on free choice prairie hay and flake of alfalfa am/pm....now that pasture is starting to come up, she will be on pasture 24/7. Added oats as well with Vitalize supplement.
There just isn't any "bloom" or "glow" to her anymore.....not slicking out.....almost ribby.
And she performs and trains great. Not moody....she has been treated for ulcers and that is not a problem anymore.
Your reply made my point on feeding Renew Gold with grass hay and some alfalfa. When you mentioned teeth were good with the exception of one sharp point. You solved your own problem. Most grass hays will not be digested properly in the hind gut unless chewed well. One sharp point will irritate the side of the tongue and the horse will chew enough to swallow, but not enough to completely break up the hay for effective digestion. As a result much of the nutrition that is in that hay ends up on the ground behind the horse. If you fix that problem, then change feeds with a positive result, that result came from the increased digestion of the grass hay because the horse can now comfortably chew, not the change in feed. When we see a customer feeding 1 to 1 1/2 pounds of Renew Gold and plenty quality hay but not getting a result, something is preventing the complete digestion of the program. In the vast majority of those cases, it is a teeth issue. I talk to a lot of customers on the phone who say that the teeth were done in the last six months to a year. They assume that this can't be an issue. Don't assume that a point was not missed, that a point did not develop since, or that the work was properly done. I have seen hooks on the inside of the lower back teeth that were supposedly checked the day before by a vet. They were missed because the vet check was done by just putting a thumb along the outside of the uppers and not even looking at the lowers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 11:09 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much. Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others.
First of all, analyzing how much you feed in comparison to what it costs is somewhat of a marketing ploy by expensive feeds. That really isn't the best way determine cost or compare. Both Ulitium and Renew Gold are at the very upper end of the expense category, no matter how you look at it. I am not saying either is bad just because of it. Both Ultium and Renew Gold are high fat, high energy feeds and are somewhat comparable energy and fat wise. Both should have low feeding rates. The recommended feeding rate is set by the manufacturer and is quite arbitrary. Renew Gold has set theirs low and Utlium higher. To think there is any negligible difference between 3lbs of RG and 4lbs of Ultium doesn't stand the reality test, when all other things are equal. Now 6lbs yes. Also as the horse gains weight, health improves and often times a lower maintenance feeding rate can be achieved. Unless you have tested hay then and now, with the same results, or the horse had a digestive issue then and is now functioning better, then I would still believe the hay quality to be your issue. Either way, it is not a case of 3lbs of RG didn't work, while 4lbs of Ultium is the ticket. If the horse had a good digestive system and the hay was good quality, 20lbs of alfalfa and the rest free choice good grass hay, would not show a decrease in weight, regardless of the 3-4 lbs of anything else you were feeding. This is true because the concentrate portion is only 12-13% of the diet. It is the 87-88% that matters most, every time.
I have fed hundreds of horses and they are all the same. The only exceptions are those with a metabolic disorder, an immunity issue, or a digestive issue. I have never bought into they are all different when it comes to effectiveness of feed sources and ingredients. They are all much more the same than they are different, unless there is a correlating third party factor, affecting health.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 12:15 PM
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | cavyrunsbarrels - 2016-04-19 10:54 AM Safechoice is NOT a safe choice at all. I would NEVER buy anything from Nutrena. Between the two Ultium at least isn't putting your horse at risk for poisoning. Many horses at my barn are on it. They all do look decent so as far as processed feeds go, I'd say it's a relatively good one. Personally, if the RG isn't really working for you, I'd try oats, flax, and alfalfa before going to a pellet.
I'd like to second what Cavy said here.  |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Tdove - 2016-04-19 12:10 PM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 11:09 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much. Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others.
First of all, analyzing how much you feed in comparison to what it costs is somewhat of a marketing ploy by expensive feeds. That really isn't the best way determine cost or compare. Both Ulitium and Renew Gold are at the very upper end of the expense category, no matter how you look at it. I am not saying either is bad just because of it. Both Ultium and Renew Gold are high fat, high energy feeds and are somewhat comparable energy and fat wise. Both should have low feeding rates. The recommended feeding rate is set by the manufacturer and is quite arbitrary. Renew Gold has set theirs low and Utlium higher. To think there is any negligible difference between 3lbs of RG and 4lbs of Ultium doesn't stand the reality test, when all other things are equal. Now 6lbs yes. Also as the horse gains weight, health improves and often times a lower maintenance feeding rate can be achieved. Unless you have tested hay then and now, with the same results, or the horse had a digestive issue then and is now functioning better, then I would still believe the hay quality to be your issue. Either way, it is not a case of 3lbs of RG didn't work, while 4lbs of Ultium is the ticket. If the horse had a good digestive system and the hay was good quality, 20lbs of alfalfa and the rest free choice good grass hay, would not show a decrease in weight, regardless of the 3-4 lbs of anything else you were feeding. This is true because the concentrate portion is only 12-13% of the diet. It is the 87-88% that matters most, every time.
I have fed hundreds of horses and they are all the same. The only exceptions are those with a metabolic disorder, an immunity issue, or a digestive issue. I have never bought into they are all different when it comes to effectiveness of feed sources and ingredients. They are all much more the same than they are different, unless there is a correlating third party factor, affecting health.
At the risk of stealing this thread, there is a very significant difference between Ultium and Renew Gold in use and formulation. Ultium was originally developed to use Stabilized Rice Bran as a primary fat source to replace grain and lower NSC in the diet. The goal was to compete with Natural Glo Stabilized Rice Bran at the time it was developed. It does do this, but straight SRB is expensive, so additional ingredients allow for a lower overall retail cost while providing a good story. In most diets, If your goal is simply to replace part or all of the grain. Ultium may have an application. At one time, food grade stabilized rice bran was used in the formulation. I was in the initial meetings where supply of that rice bran was negotiated. I do not know what the supply is today, but that may still be the case.
Renew Gold was developed to have a system wide effect on digestive efficiency. A key here is the use of coconut meal in the formulation at a ratio that allows very specific anti bacterial and anti inflammatory effects in the stomach and small intestine. Once that is done, that portion of the feed reaches a point were the natural coconut oil part of the coconut meal that does this has been digested and used as an energy source prior to reaching the hind gut. We do not want an anti bacterial effect in the hind gut. There is no other feed product on the market that combines a different functional effect in each part of the digestive system as it progresses through the system in this way. While it is very energy dense, that is a bonus, and really not the main goal of the product. The primary goal is improvements of function through the entire system that helps the horse get the most out of it's roughage. The more completely a horse uses its' roughage sources, the less you need to add in the form of concentrates. That is why the feed rate is so low. Being 15% fat and 15% protein is a bonus, not the goal, and this, along with using only non gmo ingredients is the primary difference between Renew Gold and any Rice Bran based grain replacement product.
Edited by winwillows 2016-04-19 4:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:55 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-19 8:12 AM
None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry.
I do feed Vitalize and have not seen a change yet (at 30 days ). Kool Speed Plus is not in my area. We don't have a lot to choose from!
What are you feeding? I have never seen the Vitalize not work. You do not want to feed something with other probiotics in it. And you don't need a feed with additional vitamin/mineral . I would go with oats, 1/4 alfalfa pellets and 1/4 corn. The corn only if you are hauling and riding. Good grass hay . Timothy if you can get it. You won't need anything else except maybe a joint supplement. The key is to keep it simple.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 2:14 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Ultium. It did not make my horse hotter.
Not a a nutrena fan due to previously mentioned reasons. I fed triple crown for a time, which is manufactured by Nutrena. I had inconsistent feed. Another friend had contaminated TC.
i have limited options and just two horses, so I but the Ultium growth for my colt. The gelding is on a locally milled feed the boarding barn feeds.
Ultium is worth every penny to me.
If if you would like another option, try to find Tribute. I have heard good things.
I I can't get it where I'm at.
Also, sorry for the double words... My iPhone adds them on this site for some reason. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Does anyone feed extra rice bran WITH Ultium?
Do you add a vit/min supplement like Vitalize, or Platinum Performance? |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | ecranch - 2016-04-20 7:50 AM Does anyone feed extra rice bran WITH Ultium? Do you add a vit/min supplement like Vitalize, or Platinum Performance?
When I was feeding it, I never felt the need to add anything to it. I do add rice bran with lower fat feeds for my hard keeper, but ever needed to with Ultium. |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | None....oats, renew gold, FORCO, salt, and alfalfa. I'm like many others....no more processed feeds and simplifying my feeding program. Like Connie Combs said to me at our clinic, "Why do we think man-made food is better for horses, than what God intended for them." That hit me like a ton of bricks!! 
ETA: I was feeding Safe Choice. |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| slacy09 - 2016-04-20 8:13 AM None....oats, renew gold, FORCO, salt, and alfalfa. I'm like many others....no more processed feeds and simplifying my feeding program. Like Connie Combs said to me at our clinic, "Why do we think man-made food is better for horses, than what God intended for them." That hit me like a ton of bricks!!
ETA: I was feeding Safe Choice.
How is Renew Gold not a processed feed? It comes to you as a pelleted feed.  |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | That is true....hadn't thought of that. Guess that is out of my program too. Thank you |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | Ya'll realize that Renew Gold is a fat supplement and not a feed, don't you? Ultium and SafeChoice feeds are just that - fortified feeds with vitamins and minerals. There are no vitamins and minerals added to the Renew Gold... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 9:05 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Finbin, what do you suggest is natural and right?
Oats are the most natural feed next to forage. I don't have a clue how anyone could argue against that. The most unnatural feed ingredient is vitamin and mineral supplements. Synthetic vitamins and chemically broken down rocks are quite unnatural, more so than anything else given to a horse in the form of a feed.
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| God probably didn't intend for us to ride horses or barrel race on them either. lol Sometimes we need to help horses more because lets face it, their genetic code has designed them to graze freely on an open range, have enough energy to bolt if chased or threatened by a predator etc. Horses genetics do not help them to be saddled, ridden with 100-200+ pounds around 3 barrels at top speed after being hauled in a trailer and tied to the side of it... lol Oh I digress. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | finbin - 2016-04-20 8:51 AM
Ya'll realize that Renew Gold is a fat supplement and not a feed, don't you? Ultium and SafeChoice feeds are just that - fortified feeds with vitamins and minerals. There are no vitamins and minerals added to the Renew Gold...
Renew Gold is not simply a fat supplement. It is 15% fat. That means that it is 85% other nutrients in a very specific formulation designed to normalize digestive efficiency. Please read my explanation above on what it is formulated to do. While synthetic vitamins and additional minerals are not added, it is naturally very high in fat soluble vitamins. Water soluble vitamins are made naturally by the horse in the hind gut when that system is fully functional. As I stated above, that is the primary goal of Renew Gold in the diet. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals. |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 10:17 AM
God probably didn't intend for us to ride horses or barrel race on them either. lol Sometimes we need to help horses more because lets face it, their genetic code has designed them to graze freely on an open range, have enough energy to bolt if chased or threatened by a predator etc. Horses genetics do not help them to be saddled, ridden with 100-200+ pounds around 3 barrels at top speed after being hauled in a trailer and tied to the side of it... lol Oh I digress.
Agree with you on this. The amount of feed, supplements , gadgets , gimmicks etc etc that a horse owner has to choose from is downright overwhelming sometimes! You can ask 10 different people what they "think" is the right way to feed or whatnot, and you'll get 20 different answers lol! It's a constant debate with my own father in law on feeding, he believes in oats and that's it.. nothing more nothing less... his horses are pasture ornaments, nothing more.. he argues horses in the "wild " don't get all that fancy "crap" I feed, don't get blankets or shoes or worming or vaccines. . I remind him my horses were born in a domesticated environment, not out on the range lol! I think, do your research, first and foremost make sure your feed of choice is safe from ionophores, and then make your choice, give it a try, if you don't like the way your horses are looking or acting, try something else till you find what works. Nothing wrong with asking opinions, but be prepared for the answers! |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself. Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
So then basically if you get down to it the only thing a horse needs is forage?? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
Oats have quite a bit of nutrients and wild horses have been grazing on them for eons...
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | slacy09 - 2016-04-20 10:58 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself. Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
I'm not saying that the only thing the horse needs is forage; especially if it's being worked. No forage has a proper balance of the needed vitamins and minerals the horse needs for optimal metabolism. All horses need a vitamin mineral but not all horses need oats. There are other sources of calories that work more 'naturally' within the system that are not high in starch. Forage should always be the cornerstone of your horses diet but really only rely on forage for protein, calories and fiber as it's imbalanced in minerals and vitamins are leached out of it every day after its cut. If you're feeding a grass hay I wouldn't rely on it for protein either. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | Tdove - 2016-04-20 11:07 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
Oats have quite a bit of nutrients and wild horses have been grazing on them for eons...
They may contain these nutrients, but are they in a balance and are they bioavailable? I don't see anything about calcium. Calcium and phosphorus need to be in a balanced ratio or the horse will pull calcium out of the bones to balance the high level of phosphorus. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | That is why God created alfalfa. There is no single food better for your horse than alfalfa, and oats are the perfect complement to it. Yes, nutrition in oats are extremely bioavailable. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I don't feed renew gold,but it is recommended that you feed Alfalfa with it. It is a forage based feed program. People who feed oats will usually add a vitamen mineral supplement . It is best to get away from processed feeds.
Stay simple in what you feed and your horses are healthier. Something like a oat, 1/4 alfalfa and 1/4 corn. Add a supplement like Vitalize High Performance. I prefer Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. I add Polyglycan and OE Flex for joints. My horse has never looked or felt better.
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 11:29 AM
I don't feed renew gold,but it is recommended that you feed Alfalfa with it. It is a forage based feed program. People who feed oats will usually add a vitamen mineral supplement . It is best to get away from processed feeds.
Stay simple in what you feed and your horses are healthier. Something like a oat, 1/4 alfalfa and 1/4 corn. Add a supplement like Vitalize High Performance. I prefer Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. I add Polyglycan and OE Flex for joints. My horse has never looked or felt better.
How is feeding oats, corn, and alfalfa different from feeding Kool Speed....serious question, probably dumb one |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| slacy09 - 2016-04-20 11:49 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 11:29 AM
I don't feed renew gold,but it is recommended that you feed Alfalfa with it. It is a forage based feed program. People who feed oats will usually add a vitamen mineral supplement . It is best to get away from processed feeds.
Stay simple in what you feed and your horses are healthier. Something like a oat, 1/4 alfalfa and 1/4 corn. Add a supplement like Vitalize High Performance. I prefer Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. I add Polyglycan and OE Flex for joints. My horse has never looked or felt better.
How is feeding oats, corn, and alfalfa different from feeding Kool Speed....serious question, probably dumb one
The reason I feed Kool Speed Plus is the guaranteed low starch. I could mix.my own but wanted a locked formula so there wasn't any guessing on the starch. And Kool Speed Plus was cheaper than mixing my own
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 12:40 PM
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 12:38 PM
slacy09 - 2016-04-20 11:49 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 11:29 AM
I don't feed renew gold,but it is recommended that you feed Alfalfa with it. It is a forage based feed program. People who feed oats will usually add a vitamen mineral supplement . It is best to get away from processed feeds.
Stay simple in what you feed and your horses are healthier. Something like a oat, 1/4 alfalfa and 1/4 corn. Add a supplement like Vitalize High Performance. I prefer Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. I add Polyglycan and OE Flex for joints. My horse has never looked or felt better.
How is feeding oats, corn, and alfalfa different from feeding Kool Speed....serious question, probably dumb one
The reason I feed Kool Speed Plus is the guaranteed low starch. I could mix.my own but wanted a locked formula so there wasn't any guessing on the starch. And Kool Speed Plus was cheaper than mixing my own
Thank you....do you still feed alfalfa hay with it |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| slacy09 - 2016-04-20 3:12 PM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 12:38 PM
slacy09 - 2016-04-20 11:49 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 11:29 AM
I don't feed renew gold,but it is recommended that you feed Alfalfa with it. It is a forage based feed program. People who feed oats will usually add a vitamen mineral supplement . It is best to get away from processed feeds.
Stay simple in what you feed and your horses are healthier. Something like a oat, 1/4 alfalfa and 1/4 corn. Add a supplement like Vitalize High Performance. I prefer Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. I add Polyglycan and OE Flex for joints. My horse has never looked or felt better.
How is feeding oats, corn, and alfalfa different from feeding Kool Speed....serious question, probably dumb one
The reason I feed Kool Speed Plus is the guaranteed low starch. I could mix.my own but wanted a locked formula so there wasn't any guessing on the starch. And Kool Speed Plus was cheaper than mixing my own
Thank you....do you still feed alfalfa hay with it
Yes. But only a flake. The rest is Timothy . |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | I do not see an ingredients list on the Kool Speed or am I just missing it? Also another cool little tid bit I learned was to look for feed that the ingredients and analysis are listed on the bag itself and not on an attached tag as this indicates that the ingredients stay the same and are not adjusted from time to time with what is available.
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| run n rate - 2016-04-20 3:37 PM
I do not see an ingredients list on the Kool Speed or am I just missing it? Also another cool little tid bit I learned was to look for feed that the ingredients and analysis are listed on the bag itself and not on an attached tag as this indicates that the ingredients stay the same and are not adjusted from time to time with what is available.
Kool Speed is a locked formula. I spoke to the nutrionist . Ingredients on the sack aren't always the way to tell a locked formula. Bluebonnet uses tags. Kool speed plus has whole oats,alfalfa pellets,corn and roasted soy bean. There is also a fiber pellet. I love it . My horse was having hind gut ulcer issues. Started feeding Kool Speed Plus and Vitalize High Performance. Issues.gone. she was real irritable when touching right in front of flank. That is gone.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 3:56 PM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I think there is more than one way to feed a horse that will work for you. Different programs work for different people.
I'll echo some others on here: horses were not designed to be ridden or competed on. They were not designed to eat grains or wear shoes.
I guess I'm trying to say I don't believe there is one "best" way to feed a horse. Different strokes for different folks. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Thanks for all the responses! |
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