3canstorun - 2016-04-19 1:15 PM

 Another clone has hit the barrel horse world.   I wonder what is in store for Double Latte - Mary Walker's clone of Latte? 

Will he go to the pen, or just stand for stud?
 

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:11 PM In my opinion, she would be smart to run him. Too many others are cloning just to stand at stud. I think smart money is on running him.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 2:11 PM


 That's only smart money when it's not yours


 

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:14 PM So you would just let him sit like the others?

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 2:15 PM


 That's the only logical business decision. 

They have everything to lose if they run him and he's a dud. And very little to gain if he's decent to good. 


The odds are he never stacks up to the orginal. 

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 2:15 PM


 That's the only logical business decision. 

They have everything to lose if they run him and he's a dud. And very little to gain if he's decent to good. 


The odds are he never stacks up to the orginal. 

rockette - 2016-04-19 2:18 PM There is no proof that will happen. No barrel racing clone has completed. There is no basis for what might happen. Pretty expensive breeding dud to sit around.

barrelracr131 - 2016-04-19 2:23 PM


 Also expensive to haul him. 

Its gs cheaper to just feed and breed in this situation. If they run him and he sucks, folks won't typically want to breed to that. 

They do compete on clones in parts of the world in polo and other sports. I believe the Gem Twist clone was in training. 

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:27 PM It surely can't be any more expensive than others who haul their studs. Plus, I would be wanting to get some of that cloning fee justified.

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:18 PM


There is no proof that will happen. No barrel racing clone has completed. There is no basis for what might happen. Pretty expensive breeding dud to sit around.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 2:30 PM


Go pony up a $100k and compete your tail off then.


It's a bad biz decision to try it. That's why no one has.

rockette - 2016-04-19 2:36 PM Why are you so defensive towards me? I just gave an opinion on clones not being completed on. As another poster pointed out they are competing on clones in other disciplines. Why do you have to be so nasty? You go breed to those clones since you think it is all going to be successful. Have you bred to a clone? Which one? Or why not?

NJJ - 2016-04-19 2:46 PM


IMO, IDSoon is correct in this situation.....they will be able to sell breedings on the basis of Latte's record....BUT, if they choose to compete and the clone is a "dud", they will have wasted money on a "clone".........no winnings and no breeding fees !  

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:36 PM Why are you so defensive towards me? I just gave an opinion on clones not being completed on. As another poster pointed out they are competing on clones in other disciplines. Why do you have to be so nasty? You go breed to those clones since you think it is all going to be successful. Have you bred to a clone? Which one? Or why not?

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:00 PM Slick By Design has just as much to lose to by continuing to complete, same as Firewaterontherocks. The are just as valuable as any clone, purchase price would be astounding.

rockette - 2016-04-19 4:00 PM Slick By Design has just as much to lose to by continuing to complete, same as Firewaterontherocks. The are just as valuable as any clone, purchase price would be astounding.

rockette - 2016-04-19 4:00 PM Slick By Design has just as much to lose to by continuing to complete, same as Firewaterontherocks. The are just as valuable as any clone, purchase price would be astounding.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 3:04 PM


you know what, you're right.

You have changed my mind


 

MS2011 - 2016-04-19 3:03 PM


Huh?   Firewaterontherocks and Slick by Design both have outstanding resumes.  Everyone knows barrel horses get hurt and can't stay at the top forever - but nothing will take away from what these 2 stallions have already won.  It wouldn't matter to me if Slick never won another $1 running barrels, he's proven himself to be one bad cat in the pen. 

3canstorun - 2016-04-19 3:06 PM


Slick has a lot to loose every time he steps into an arena - but you are forgetting one thing - he isn't a clone. 
 

lhighquality - 2016-04-19 3:08 PM


That is the point, (i believe) that is trying to be made, they are "worth" just as much as a clone, and compete to cement their future, unlike many of the clones. At least this is my take on it!!

rockette - 2016-04-19 4:12 PM Yes! THANK YOU!

3canstorun - 2016-04-19 3:15 PM


You are missing the point - yes dollar wise they are worth more then the clone.  However, the clone hasn't done a **** thing at any discipline.  So, when you put it in the pen, and it performs, then the value goes up.  It costs money to get all animals here, clones just cost more if you have to pay for it. 

And, if the clone doesn't perform like the other animals, it will never have the worth of Slick, FWOTR, Scamper or any other animals that has already proven his worth.   

3canstorun - 2016-04-19 3:15 PM


You are missing the point - yes dollar wise they are worth more then the clone.  However, the clone hasn't done a **** thing at any discipline.  So, when you put it in the pen, and it performs, then the value goes up.  It costs money to get all animals here, clones just cost more if you have to pay for it. 

And, if the clone doesn't perform like the other animals, it will never have the worth of Slick, FWOTR, Scamper or any other animals that has already proven his worth.   

lhighquality - 2016-04-19 4:21 PM So just like any other stallion, clone or not, if you want "me" to breed to him, have him proven, bc to me just being a clone of a famous horse doesn't get "me" to breed to him.

barrelracr131 - 2016-04-19 3:18 PM

I will add that the clones being competed on were created to compete on by wealthy wealthy people. Not for breeding.

In cloning an animal specifically for breeding, the idea is the original has already proven the genetics. If the horse sucks, they basically lose any potential return on this investment.

rockette - 2016-04-19 3:20 PM


How does anyone know? It has never been done? Is all I am saying. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong. I am saying there is no precedence about what would happen if someone competed on a clone, then used him for stud.

linds - 2016-04-19 4:41 PM .  All they are is scared that they are going to lose face and not pull any stud fees. 



  eta: The whole 'protecting their investment' argument - do you really think they are going to make their money back? I didn't think breeding barrel horses was that lucrative a business. I can't look up how many Clayton is booking to a year - hell the last update Charmayne made to her site was 2 years ago! I'm guessing, she's not making any money on that 'business venture'

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 3:29 PM


 Ima go out on a limb here and predict you're not their target demographic. 


 

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 3:55 PM  No, they are worried that the clone will suck, and they will lose the hundreds of thousands of dollars invested to get that colt to breeding age. 



And non of these folks are banking on stud fees in the first few years making them their money back. 



They are banking on the fact that these mutants are going to produce like the bad azzes that they are clones of and then they laugh all the way to the bank for the next 10-15 years while everyone signs contracts and writes checks. 





As an adendum, they are also banking on the clones becoming popular enough as a breeding option that the general membership forces the Association ot accept clones for registrations. 



It's not a zero sum game, their potential for loss by sucking is much greater than their potential for gain if the animal can shut the clock off. 



/thread

Blake Russell - 2016-04-19 5:11 PM Most of us believe in breeding programs that are validated with proof. That is why we see certain pedigrees demonstrated repeatedly in elite performance horses. Cloning is not for those who do not believe that elite genetics are not a key element of an outstanding individual. A clone of Latte will breed as if he were Latte himself (had Latte remained a stallion). That is independent of his personal performance. Performance is a function of genetics x environment and the genotype is the same from donor to cloned horse. It is difficult to intelligently argue against the genetic potential of a proven winner (clone or not). Still many variables left to observe. If the clone competes, then we have 2x the data with same genotype and different environments to evaluate the genetics. If the clone does not compete, then we have only the data generated by the original performance (similar to what we might have on a competing stallion that retires to the breeding shed). If you pay attention to pedigrees and find them meaningful, then you intuitively understand the power of cloning. If you select horses based on phenotype alone with no interest in pedigree, then you are not likely still reading this comment. Of course, one can fully understand the technical issue and still dislike the technology for other reasons. Some will choose to leverage knowledge and blaze a different trail. I think there are likely multiple intelligent ways to achieve a worthy goal and I enjoy the diversity of routes. One thing is for certain, all of us love a strong, healthy, gorgeous foal and they often represent great promise to all of us. I can’t wait to lay my eyes on this guy later this week because I have the advantage of knowing that his identical twin (Latte) has demonstrated the power of the genetics in this hopeful future star.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 4:14 PM


 Blake just tolt y'all you wuz stoopid cause you didn't understand jinetecs 



 

rockette - 2016-04-19 5:18 PM Actually, Blake just proved my point.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 4:25 PM


Do you even Phenotype?

Sorry, feeling out of sorts today. 


But what blake said is you base your breeding decisions on solely performance(phenotype) then you are stoopid.(not really but I like typing that) 


 

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 4:30 PMThis is like herding cats.


COngrats, you have defeated me. 


 

rockette - 2016-04-19 4:33 PM

I am not trying to defeat you. I think that you are speaking in regards to cloning a horse with great breeding genetics. I am talking about if someone decided to compete on the clone I don't think it would affect the stud fee any different if they didn't ride.

1DSoon - 2016-04-19 4:14 PM


 Blake just tolt y'all you wuz stoopid cause you didn't understand jinetecs 



 

Gunner11 - 2016-04-19 5:52 PM


So you honestly believe that if Clayton went to the barrel pen and couldn't even pull a 5D check, that he would still command the same stud fee that he does right now?

NJJ - 2016-04-19 2:46 PM IMO, IDSoon is correct in this situation.....they will be able to sell breedings on the basis of Latte's record....BUT, if they choose to compete and the clone is a "dud", they will have wasted money on a "clone".........no winnings and no breeding fees !  

FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-04-19 5:06 PM


lol from the looks of it, he isn't even getting that stud fee now since there doesn't seem to be any hitting the ground.

cyount2009 - 2016-04-19 5:13 PM I just read the last time cloning came up in here, and I'll try to find it, that Clayton's book accepts 10 mares a year.

Whiteboy - 2016-04-19 5:11 PM Ahhh...Norma and Rick together again!! 

3canstorun - 2016-04-19 6:36 PM While I certainly am no expert how could a clone left a stallion perform like Latte a gelding? Aren't they two different individuals? Different in the fact one has his "parts" and the other doesn't?

Burn n' Turn - 2016-04-19 7:37 PM

In my honest opinion, why are we all on here fighting over an animal that you don't even own and you have nothing to do with? The owners will do with the clone what they choose to, and you won't have any impact on that. The decision is theirs to make, and they will be the ones that have to live with the consequences, NOT you.

And besides the point, how would a clone be any different than a full sibling? FWOTR has a full sibling, was there discussion on here about what the owners were going to do with him?

And people are going to think and do what they want. Some will breed to a full sibling/clone simply based on the performance of the siblings/original horse. While others will only breed to a stallion who has proven himself. To each their own, find something better to do then sit online and discuss something that has NOTHING to do with you.

TXBO - 2016-04-19 9:04 PM

 I wish they could clone Cathy Ireland. 

Bear - 2016-04-19 9:35 PM LMAO....good one, Jim

TXBO - 2016-04-19 9:38 PM Prettiest eyes God ever made. 

Southtxponygirl - 2016-04-19 9:49 PM  

rodeoveteran - 2016-04-19 6:49 PM


There is a HUGH difference in between full siblings and a clone. When you have two complete sets of DNA contributing to offspring they an be combined in an almost infinite number on configurations. Did you take biology in high school? For example if you breed long haired guinea pigs with short haired guinea pigs, and add color with one hair type and color being dominant, you come up with a genotype ratio of 1/2/2/4/1/2/1/2/1 or a phenotype (appearance) of 9/3/3/1. in other words you will have so many long haired white, short haired white, long haired black and short haired black g. pigs, but not all of those in any given group will have the same GENOTYPE, the genetics which they can pass on. And that is just TWO factors controlled by genetics. ( This is the same process by which those color calculators come up with color predictions).

I never went much farther in to the study if genetics but have to wonder exactly how much influence the MITOCHONDRIAL DNA play, not to mention external chemistry etc., have to do with the final product. Perhaps our resident VIAGEN rep can give his two cents? And all of that does not answer the nature vs nurture question, i.e. would Scamper have been the force he was to be reckoned with if he had not had a less than ideal beginnings, and then to come to the hands of a young girl who became an incredible partner for whatever reasons?

stayceem - 2016-04-20 9:35 AM And this might open up a new can of worms. I am not in the breeding business but I like to keep up on it and dream about it. I personally wont breed to an unproven stud. I think if more people felt this way, the cloning would dissipate. I believe in good bloodlines but I also believe in good heart, work ethic, natural athletic ability. I have seen some FWF studs who are incredible athletes, calm & collected and just plain nice. I have seen others that are NOT impressive. Whether it is training, atmosphere, bloodlines, none of us know. But it separates the great stallions from the mediocre ones. I do know that there are studs out there with injuries and had to be retired. Those I feel a bit different about mainly because they didn't get the chance to prove themselves. I would probably still breed to something proven over that injured stud but I wouldn't rule it out. But I will rule these clones out, not because they're clones but because they refuse to run them. Without naming names, there are a few other studs who never hit the arena themselves for one fear or another. Yes, I have seen unproven studs throw some incredible winners... but we don't know what they got from their stud. Was their success based on the mare power? An incredible trainer? Were they just a freak of nature? Just my two cents.

1DSoon - 2016-04-20 8:50 AM  I finally get the disconnect. 





These animals are not being bred and marketed as a sire prospect. 





They are being bred, marketed and stood as the "ORGINAL" these owners are selling you(the breeding public) on the fact that this clone is not a seperate individual that is being offered as a sire. IT is "latte" it is "hot shot" or "Frenchmans Guy" etc



That is why it is unwise to attempt to compete on these animals. 





 

rodeomom3 - 2016-04-20 9:11 AM


 This ^^. The record is already proven in the original-no need to chance disproving it with the clone.   You are buying  Latte's get not Double Latte's.  

I agree with others that there are more than genetics that make that amazing competitor.   Apparently the owners of some of the clones might agree or you would see them in competition. 

hannavashays - 2016-04-20 9:37 AM

Well I'll put my 2 cents in since this is exactly what I'm going to college for, about to get my Master's in. You don't clone animals to compete on them. You can't clone grit, you can't clone heart, or try, or toughness. No, you clone to carry on good genetics. Do I think it's smart? In my opinion, not really. I can't afford it, even though i would love to clone my nice horse who only has one full sister left alive and no brothers. Too much money with no guarantees. But if you have the money to do it, go ahead! The reason you clone is to keep those genetics alive. That's the main reason. It's very rarely about personal attachment or the fact that they want them as a pet for when the original dies. Red Man Bay, Latte, Hot Shot, Scamper. They were cloned to carry on those genetics since they were and are all geldings. Only one of these horses is still alive. I don't care if you agree with it on an ethical level, but for keeping the gene pool fresh, I'm all for it. There is too much inbreeding going on in our industry anyway.

hannavashays - 2016-04-20 10:37 AM

Well I'll put my 2 cents in since this is exactly what I'm going to college for, about to get my Master's in. You don't clone animals to compete on them. You can't clone grit, you can't clone heart, or try, or toughness. No, you clone to carry on good genetics. Do I think it's smart? In my opinion, not really. I can't afford it, even though i would love to clone my nice horse who only has one full sister left alive and no brothers. Too much money with no guarantees. But if you have the money to do it, go ahead! The reason you clone is to keep those genetics alive. That's the main reason. It's very rarely about personal attachment or the fact that they want them as a pet for when the original dies. Red Man Bay, Latte, Hot Shot, Scamper. They were cloned to carry on those genetics since they were and are all geldings. Only one of these horses is still alive. I don't care if you agree with it on an ethical level, but for keeping the gene pool fresh, I'm all for it. There is too much inbreeding going on in our industry anyway.

amandacamarano - 2016-04-20 9:11 AM

Soooo...if you breed a clone offspring to another clone offspring and compete on them at an equal payout barrel race...would the site implode??

FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-04-20 10:01 AM


I understand why one would clone a gelding, especially one that isn't from major bloodlines. It does make for an outcross sire that has proven athletic ability.... but come on. They cloned frenchman's guy, not just once. That was probably the stupidest thing IMO. He has thousands of foals.... his time came and now his time needs to leave for the gene pool to survive.

hannavashays - 2016-04-20 11:36 AM


I agree with that one. You shouldn't clone high producing stallions. That is unhelpful and just wasteful. The gene pool doesn't need it. If there are good genes that are dying out with great geldings, decide if those genes are worth saving, and clone them. That is what makes the most sense about cloning. It's all about selection!

euchee - 2016-04-19 3:12 PM

 I don't like the idea of cloning but that is besides the point.  We only have geldings with no desire to own a mare so I don't know all the ins and outs of it but one thing that I keep thinking is that everyone says that 80 to 90 percent of the colt is due to the mare and not the stud.  I'm not talking health, I mean ability, attitude and such.  If so why do we see such high stud fee's.  Shouldn't it be the other way around. 

stayceem - 2016-04-20 9:26 AM As much as I don't agree with not competing on them, I do understand how it is a smart business decision not to. Too much risk. And I guess no matter how they spin it, I wont breed to Hotshot's clone based on Hotshot's winnings. They're too separate horses in my mind and if they were really that confident in their genetics, they'd ride them. JMO. Again, I get why they don't... but I still think they should.

AllAroundRider - 2016-04-20 7:54 AM

I didn't read the whole thread and my opinion doesn't really matter but I feel like cloning is a perfect example of the way the world is now.
We don't have any more original ideas. We remake the same dang movies and shows a hundred times over. I remember when it was a big deal a movie got a sequel, now they just keep going and going. Books are the same. Tack and product makers copy each others ideas to the point everybody looks the same. We clone sires that have had huge, successful, long lists of progeny. At some point we have done away with originality and advancement which is ironic in a society that preaches to be those things.
It is equally amazing and horrific to me our scientific abilities to do things like cloning. I also see it as entirely unneccesary.
 

OregonBR - 2016-04-20 3:05 PM LOL no you're just getting older. I'm 60 and one thing I noticed is that all things in life have already been done and said. They're coming around again. Low rise jeans were butt ugly when we wore them in the 70's. Yet they have come back and are just as ugly as they ever were. I wish they'd go AWAY. I've seen enough buttcracks to last another 60 years.

CE's wrapn3 - 2016-04-20 1:08 PM


I thought 70's were high rise? 

OregonBR - 2016-04-20 4:14 PM Don't make me go back and look at those old pictures. I'm pretty sure I have a pic of myself on a paint mare from the early 70's wearing low rise polyester pants. OMG Yuck!

OregonBR - 2016-04-20 3:05 PM LOL no you're just getting older. I'm 60 and one thing I noticed is that all things in life have already been done and said. They're coming around again. Low rise jeans were butt ugly when we wore them in the 70's. Yet they have come back and are just as ugly as they ever were. I wish they'd go AWAY. I've seen enough buttcracks to last another 60 years.

3canstorun - 2016-04-20 3:29 PM We had low rise polyester pants and high rise jean material pants.  I had them too.



What is scary is that jumpsuits and culottes are back in style.   

epoh - 2016-04-20 8:33 PM Honestly, I am not against the cloning idea. If you all had a proven horse just like the ones that have been cloned and had the money to clone them, I bet you would in a heartbeat. Who says that they didn't clone them for their personal purposes, but are generous enough to open the gene pool that they have won thousands on to the public? IMO clones do not necessarily need to prove themselves in the pen. YES- thee clone may not perform to the caliber that the original did but you run that risk with every offspring. AND the owners are not showcasing the clone, the clone is showcasing the original athlete. By breeding to one, you get a dip into those golden genetics. Ive seen plenty of DTF and FG duds out there and they were from the real thing.... By standing a clone to the public, the owners are CHOOSING to give YOU a chance at those genetics. They have already had their fair share of fame with the original gene pool, why wouldn't they just keep the clone for their personal mares? Clones are for people that want the bloodline that would no longer exist without the original.

DashNDustem - 2016-04-20 10:22 PM

I'm not much for debating. I am not against the idea of a clone, it is science and if people have enough money to put out to make one.. then hey, they should go for it. But I think that is someone were to clone say their really expensive, world champion geldings (Say Latte or Scamper), they should have a rule that those horses should be ridden, trained and competed on. There are a lot of stallions out there that are bred strictly due to their bloodlines, but I think if your cloning something to breed and are saying "Oh yes, it will just like breeding to Latte.. or scamper.. or whoever", a supposive horse of that caliber they should be proven in the arena so people know what they are getting. Sure it would be a risky gamble, but why make such a statement if you're not willing to take that risk to prove what you are telling the public? Mary didn't just fall in love with Latte for being Latte.. she fell in love with him because they were a team, because he is an amazing barrel horse, because they had a connection and are still on this incredible journey together. Did you ever think that maybe he was cut, because he WOULDN'T make a good stallion? What if he would pass on a bad disposition as a stallion? Same thing with Scamper. He was an unruly gelding that bucked everyone off when Charmayne bought him. Who's to say that he wouldn't pass that down to his offspring? Gelding's are gelding's for a reason. My colt is well bred and behaves, but he wouldn't of made a good stud because he can be a bit of a bully, can be testy and pushy sometimes and needs a reminder. Imagine if he had all that testosterone? That's why I would think about.

I'd want to see them in the arena. Competing, and living up to their bloodlines that the owners are saying are so great. There are many NICE Dash Ta Fame and Dash for Perks out there that are PROVEN in the arena.. I'd breed to them any day over a clone that hasn't stepped foot or even been given a chance.

AllAroundRider - 2016-04-20 8:39 PM

 No. And even more no.
No, even if I had all the money in the world I would not clone. It is a personal and ethical issue for me as it is for many others. Most people value things that are special, unique, different. When you duplicate you take at least some of that away.

I do not for one minute believe people that are cloning and choosing to stand them to the public are being generous. That is a business decision. A smart one to try to recoup the costs of cloning but most certainly not an act of generosity.

cecollins0811 - 2016-04-21 7:35 AM Agreed. They aren't doing it our of the goodness of their hearts, they are doing it for business and money making reasons. Also, if I did have an amazing gelding who took me to the NFR multiple times I still wouldn't agree on cloning. If he did die, I would be sad and cry, then look at all the wonderful prospects in my barn that I was able to afford and smile. That's it, life goes on. Cloning is just setting us back in the breeding world.

Tdove - 2016-04-20 9:51 AM Cloning will cause more inbreeding, not deliver us from it. If cloning ever becomes cheap enough, the gene pool with disappear into a puddle.

Tdove - 2016-04-21 10:55 AM

The gene pool has shrunk due to AI and other factors. This is because AI cheapened the most decorated studs' fees such that it is not much more to breed to a world champ or super proven stud than to breed to an unproven or non-popular stud. The reason for this is economy of scale. AI has increased drastically the number of mares a stallion can produce.

Now, where do I come from saying cloning has the potential to kill the gene pool that is already hurting? That is because if cloning ever becomes cheap enough that stallion owners will be able to charge relatively competitive stud fees for clones, then where do you think the masses will be spending their money? Everyone will want the super duper semen from the most decorated stallions. Here is the scenario I am looking at. Cloning will allow multiple stallions with the same genetic makeup. This means unlimited breeding potential for the genetics of just one stallion. 50 years ago this was 20 mares or so, today it is 100+, and in the future of cloning, it will be in the 1000's. They will be able to offer cheap breeding fees, comparable if not cheaper to fees today, because of three things: 1) The cost of producing a clone will go down 2)The expense of developing and marketing the bloodlines will decrease. This is because cost of raising and proving a stallion is immense. Today only one stallion at a time can reap the benefits of this expense. In the cloning future say 5, 10, 20, etc. stallions can be cloned to spread the expense of raising, training, and showing that one winning individual. 3) The number of mares able to service from this lower investment per collection will rise drastically, so less money is needed to be made off of each individual collection or breeding. Combined with a world of full of clones, competitive forces will keep prices low.

I guarantee you, if cloning is ever able to get to that level of access and economics, the traditional live cover small group of mares breeder (without massive pocketbooks) will be done for. I am one of those breeders so yes I am affected. Also, with unlimited numbers of highly promoted and invested stallions everywhere the economic incentive will not be there to introduce new genetics or bloodlines to the system AND the public, by in large, will not demand it until it is virtually too late to find such high quality outcrosses within a breeding association. This is why I am 100% against cloning and the registration of clones. I do have a vested interest. think every horse owner and enthusiast has a vested interest.

rockette - 2016-04-19 2:18 PM


There is no proof that will happen. No barrel racing clone has completed. There is no basis for what might happen. Pretty expensive breeding dud to sit around.

dashnlotti - 2016-04-21 7:28 PM


I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if its been stated...
But Blaise has been running her clone of Red Man Bay. She just started hauling him this year and he's doing well.

Burn n' Turn - 2016-04-19 11:57 PM


Yes, I did take biology in high school but I guess I didn't care enough about it to stick with it and retain anything about cloning and DNA. I am however a business person and would be more than happy to write you a lovely report highlighting a cost/benefit analysis of all of the situations like just standing him, competing and him doing well and standing him, competing and him being mediocre at best and trying to stand him. Each scenario had its own costs and potential benefits, the owners just have to make the decision on their own as to how much risk they are willing to assume.

Sharp - 2016-04-21 7:07 PM Cloning has been done a lot here in Brazil especially with dairy and beef bulls. What has shown is that the clones DO NOT produce near to the level of the original animal. Here in Brazil, you can clone your horse or bull and get 3 foals/calves for the cost of around $40,000. I thought about doing it on my FWF stud just to get three geldings to ride because it would be a lot cheaper to clone him than to buy and send to Brazil own sons of FWF. But as for the cloning, its pretty proven here that the clones dont become what the original was, or even close.

1DSoon - 2016-04-22 8:19 AM

I'm waiting on my Triceritops to be born

 

Gunner11 - 2016-04-22 9:58 AM Watch out for poachers!

Blake Russell - 2016-04-22 11:13 AM I had the opportunity to see the Double Latte cloned foal yesterday with my own eyes...and wow! he is a nice foal. Also, I hadn't seen the Frenchman's Guy cloned stallions since I delivered them years ago, and wow! again. They are super nice. I booked a mare to the FG cloned stallions (impossible for me to resist) and we are already fired up about another baby next year. As I stated before, there are multiple roads that can lead to great outcomes. I have seen the early movers with technology benefit in dairy, club calves, show pigs, goats, deer, polo horses, Olympic sport horses, and I am thoroughly enjoying the ride. Lots of discussion on here about the impact of breeding techniques on the future of the horse industry. I believe the responsibility is there for the breeders to use effectively. The answer isn't in prohibiting something because if used incorrectly, then it can cause harm. In that case we wouldn't have cars, hammers, or about any other tool. We need to understand our tools and use them to their best purpose. Thank you for the opportunity to share my opinions openly and I enjoy this forum.

Blake Russell - 2016-04-22 10:13 AM

I had the opportunity to see the Double Latte cloned foal yesterday with my own eyes...and wow! he is a nice foal. Also, I hadn't seen the Frenchman's Guy cloned stallions since I delivered them years ago, and wow! again. They are super nice. I booked a mare to the FG cloned stallions (impossible for me to resist) and we are already fired up about another baby next year. As I stated before, there are multiple roads that can lead to great outcomes. I have seen the early movers with technology benefit in dairy, club calves, show pigs, goats, deer, polo horses, Olympic sport horses, and I am thoroughly enjoying the ride. Lots of discussion on here about the impact of breeding techniques on the future of the horse industry. I believe the responsibility is there for the breeders to use effectively. The answer isn't in prohibiting something because if used incorrectly, then it can cause harm. In that case we wouldn't have cars, hammers, or about any other tool. We need to understand our tools and use them to their best purpose. Thank you for the opportunity to share my opinions openly and I enjoy this forum.

Blake Russell - 2016-04-22 10:13 AM I had the opportunity to see the Double Latte cloned foal yesterday with my own eyes...and wow! he is a nice foal. Also, I hadn't seen the Frenchman's Guy cloned stallions since I delivered them years ago, and wow! again. They are super nice. I booked a mare to the FG cloned stallions (impossible for me to resist) and we are already fired up about another baby next year. As I stated before, there are multiple roads that can lead to great outcomes. I have seen the early movers with technology benefit in dairy, club calves, show pigs, goats, deer, polo horses, Olympic sport horses, and I am thoroughly enjoying the ride. Lots of discussion on here about the impact of breeding techniques on the future of the horse industry. I believe the responsibility is there for the breeders to use effectively. The answer isn't in prohibiting something because if used incorrectly, then it can cause harm. In that case we wouldn't have cars, hammers, or about any other tool. We need to understand our tools and use them to their best purpose. Thank you for the opportunity to share my opinions openly and I enjoy this forum.