r_beau - 2016-04-25 1:19 PM Curious: How does he turn to the right if you reverse the pattern on him? (and run to the left barrel first)  If he turns it night, then it very well could be your approach to that first barrel and/or how you are cueing him for that first barrel.



I agree it looks like you are loping a circle around the first barrel, rather than "turning" it. I definately go back to slow work and teach him to FINISH that first barrel like he does the other two. Also pay attention to how you cue him for the 2nd and 3rd barrel, and compare that to how you are currently turning the first.



Any possibility he'd be sore turning to the right?

 

FlyingJT - 2016-04-25 1:53 PM Try giving him some aids during practice. Use some tires, set one coming in, one behind the barrel (both of these against the barrel)and another to the outside where he needs to push off(so he has to leave between the barrel and the tire). Trot this for a while and then move up to a lope. Also, rate, he needs to shorten his stride so he can get his butt under himself. I would even ask him to also stop and cross over his front on the backside. I would do all rights, five barrel drill.

cecollins0811 - 2016-04-25 3:19 PM I agree with the drills, that should help him but I'm going to suggest a bit with no gag. How is he different with a chain mouthpiece and a 3 piece mouthpiece exactly? I know you said bracy with Mike Beers and long shank mod gag 3 piece and pushes through the others but is he naturally stiffer or noodley?

rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 10:12 AM

I didn't post a video with the Beers bit. I was using it and a regular tiedown but changed for the Feb. 14th run and have been in the bonnet since then. He was extremely bracey and ran WAY past the first on Feb. 13th in the Beers bit & tiedown.
If I drop my outside rein on the first barrel (which I did in the Saturday 4/23 video but you can't see it because as soon as I dropped it, I felt him keep drifting to the fence and picked the rein back up), his body just floats out of the turn even worse. He's not really newish to the pattern but this first barrel is a major struggle for him so I've kept two-handing him to try and control that turn a little more.  

hammer_time - 2016-04-26 2:36 AM  I agree he seems really stiff to the right....which makes me think that if you were to do more of a teardrop style turn he might like it better.  You pull OUT  more on the first while the other two barrels you LIFT.  You might need to do a lot of work bending and flexing him.  What if you took off the bonnet and used a combo type bit?

FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 10:23 AM Just my opinion here. I always start my horses a certain style but if they deviate from that and pick a way they like to turn and it works, I kind of let them do it so we both can be happy. I don't believe in picking on one to make them conform to a certain style. To me, if I was running your horse, I would almost shoot for a roll back turn on the first then keep the other 2 the same as he seems to be really consistent and bendy on those. I would push him to the hip on the first, sit and see if you can't get him to roll back all in one motion on that first barrel. He sure seems trainable and is listening!

cranky B4 10am - 2016-04-26 10:25 AM OK, here is my $0.02.

I really watched you in all the runs not your horse..... Going around 1st you are not looking at where you have to go. You don't look at 2nd untill he is aimed at it. But on both 2nd and 3rd you look where you have to go a lot sooner.

And the reason I noticed is because I have issues with that too, if I am looking where I should be looking we have a very nice 1st, but if I am not looking around to 2nd we will have a semi-truck turn.... most of the time my 2nd and 3rd are alright, so no problem there. Unless I look straight at the barrel, and that usualy means we hit it.

Also he doesn't seem to rate on 1st, so might have to do some more slow work on that.



 

rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-25 1:33 PM I don't see any way that running him to the left will be successful. He's so stiff and uncoordinated going right that I imagine only bad things could happen making 2 right turns instead of 1! LOL.



We are just kind of loping a circle around the first barrel because his footwork is not good and I haven't hit on the right strategy to teach better/quicker footwork to him. He's turned into Mr. Automatic on the 2nd and 3rd barrels so I'm not really cueing him there at all. I just drive him all the way and drop my outside rein when we're in the right spot to start the turn. 



My gut feeling is that he's not sore - his footwork has always been bad going right. I think he just doesn't get it yet. 

clover girl - 2016-04-26 12:06 PM Here is what I do before I ever put them on the pattern at a lope.  



I will trot/lope circles but instead of making them round I will cut off one side and make more of a half pizza or a D shape. When I pick up on the rein I will use outside foot (and rein if they are too bendy) to try to make them square and make a straight line.  When they get that picked up I will move to the other lead, then to the pattern.  



I do this at a lope until the horse is comfortable, then I move to loping the pattern. 

rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:32 AM I'm not surprised to hear this. I know it's a weakness of mine.  

hammer_time - 2016-04-26 1:23 PM  Yep.  Especially noticed this with the last 2 videos.  I can't even tell where you're looking but it's anywhere BUT the second LOL.  It was also my issue when my horse ran by so I'm not picking on you.  :)



I agree with Flittastic-- more of a rollback style might fit him better on the first.  Like straighter into it, more room on the backside, straighter departure.  I guess that's what I was thinking when I said "teardrop" earlier.  Maybe a hybrid?  I'd definitely try the squares exercise because it shows them the EXACT places to put their feet.  



I liked his his run better in the first bit where the reins flipped over, not the Rosie gag.  Seems like you could get his nose better and had a BIT more flexibility in the ribcage.



I just watched Clinton Anderson's little series on his paint stud colt he's going to futurity and he does ALOT of flexing and bending at the trot.  I know he's notorious for making his horses "over-bendy" but I know *I* never concentrate that much on bending and circles and counter arcs just wherever in the arena and maybe I should.   Might be something to think about doing, especially since he is SO stiff to the right.  Has he been chiropractored lately?  I'd at least get him doing stretches with treats to get him flexible in his body without a rider.  Anything to loosen him up on that side!!

rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 8:31 AM


I'd love to do this, but we aren't even getting that accomplished. Any suggestions of how to teach this?

FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 1:58 PM


I had one like yours. What i did is not rate or stop before the barrel. Just go to the set point on the BACK of the barrel, then stop back up one step and go ahead and come around it. Will teach him to not rate until back side then set and turn. Hope that helps.

WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 12:33 PM He's not turning it because he's not in the proper body position to do so.  It looks to me like his ribcage is leaking out to the left,  which is why he doesn't "come" to your inside hand and snap back on that turn. Your thinking too much and worrying about what bit to put in him, when I'd be more concerned with whats going on with your motor and fixing that instead. Your not going to magically fix his issues with a bit. you need one to help you out, but its not his fix in my opinion. His butt is what's "driving" your program so to speak, start softening it up (moving his hips), teach him to soften his ribs (go lateral), and unlock those shoulders (counterarcs). All of that has to be pretty darn free for him to move correctly around the turn. JMO.

He is a super sweet looking dude and seems so kind and quiet.

 

2H~QH - 2016-05-05 2:39 PM I know I'm late to the party but I agree with WYO on body position. I would add that shoulder control will help you out a whole bunch too. I only watched the last video posted but not only are his ribs carrying to the left, he's not moving his shoulder to the right either.



What I like to do is (from a walk - then trot, then lope as the progress) is walk around the barrel to the point that I want them to turn , then stop and do a turnaround to that direction - so for you, to the right. I do several revolutions and really get after them with my feet. Then continue around the barrel. I only spin them behind the barrel a few times if I am working the pattern otherwise they do get hot...and as they learn, you can use less foot and more just neck rain. But you will find that once you get to that point and cue, they will start to snap back a LOT faster because they are thinking about moving that shoulder.



This will help keep your inside hand down as well, it looked kinda high to me in the video. Eventually you can just run up, drop your outside hand and keep your inside hand low once they get moving that shoulder.

Your horse will need to know the turnaround obviously before you start this drill.



Unfortuantely my program always starts with lots of slow work, so not a really quick fix. ... but it might give you a new drill to do

 

KindaClassey - 2016-05-05 8:08 PM If you are completely sure he is not sore - I personally think he is just lollygagging around and wallering around the 1st barrel. He doesn't think he is supposed to snap the 1st, because you are not asking him to. Honestly he never drags a leg up and rates. He could care less what your hands are telling him. He can make a beautiful move on the 3rd - he could make a similar one on the 1st., even if it isn't his best way. I really like Ed Wrights figure 8 drill in this type of situation. Walk the 1st barrel using your inside right rein and when getting ready to leave it, continue with pressure from your right hand. Let his hip take a few steps past the barrel headed to a point between the 2nd and 3 rd barrel- continuing to direct movement with your right hand. Reverse arc to the left - finish the arc in position to turn the barrel to the right. Once he gets the hang of the movement, trot the drill and eventually move up to the lope. This drill gets one listening to the inside rein, dragging up a hip, finishing a turn, and adds life and agility to the feet. Good luck.

WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2016-05-05 2:08 PM We just did something similar at a clinic this weekend with my horse, on the backside of the barrel, but I disagree with using less leg and more neck rein. The more outside rein you put on one the more you encourage that inside front foot to drive into the ground. By doing this you will actually drop one on their front end, where your suppose to have them rocked back in order to blast out of your turn.  If you get them very respectful of your leg and keeping that ribcage in proper placement they will know just by the slightest touch of rein and foot that they had better be  sweeping the shoulders and getting out of that turn.