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 Elite Veteran
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Location: Texas! | Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now?
Edited by WYOracer 2016-06-10 5:25 PM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Definitely could be, hope you get it figured out and also if your saddle fits him. Have you checked your saddle out to see if the tree is broken? Especially since he fell on it a couple of times |
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 Expert
Posts: 1304
| I don't have any medical advice but maybe he's been hurting so much that he's associated riding with it and is just flipping out. Whatever it may be prayers you figure it out!! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Ulcers can also cause horses to blow up when saddling.
I had one who became cold backed with a flex tree, I thought it fit her. I changed to a saddle (wooden tree) I knew didn't fit her, the cold backed went away. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would go over your saddle and make sure the tree is sound/not broken, no screws coming threw, check pad, cinch.
And I would have a good Chiro checking this horse out. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | First vet to look at him was also a chiro he felt he was sore in his feet and his shoulders so adjusted them they were super sore. Second opinion we did the radiographs of his back and that's when we injected. Saddle pad is brand new and I did check the cinch but need to go over the saddle again last I checked it it was fine and he will go win the 1D and be fine one day but then the next he ran off with me and then back to win another jackpot and now this. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | We had a 4YO do this years ago. It would scare the crap out of me! t was when you went to cinch him. He would explode/flip if you tightened too quickly or most of it at once. I never thought I tightened too quickly and always walked, then tightened again. However, this horse was crazy sensitive about cinching only. We had an older gentleman that saw this in race horses. He cinched him, the horse exploded and passed out. We had to cut the cinch. The old guy told us he saw it in race horses that a nerve would be over the muscle and not under the way it should be. He said it was pretty rare. Cinching quickly or all at once would pinch that nerve. Then, the horse also gets nervous about cinching and expecting it and then can freak out. I mean ours flipped a couple times and passed out. We went to cinching very loose, walked him and then tighten again...repeat. We took it slow at first, then he just stopped doing it. But we always tightened a little and then walked some after that with that horse...he never did it again. I know it sounds completely nuts...like a myth or an old wives tale, but it did work.
Edited by Gator Bug 2016-06-07 3:26 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1812
Location: Hernando, Ms | Could be Ulcers. It's cheaper to treat for them than have your horse scoop. To check off your list of what it could be. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-07 3:15 PM First vet to look at him was also a chiro he felt he was sore in his feet and his shoulders so adjusted them they were super sore. Second opinion we did the radiographs of his back and that's when we injected. Saddle pad is brand new and I did check the cinch but need to go over the saddle again last I checked it it was fine and he will go win the 1D and be fine one day but then the next he ran off with me and then back to win another jackpot and now this. Sounds like you have a mystery issue going on, check saddle and make sure no screws are backing out anywhere. What type of saddle and pad do you have on him? Sometimes if a pad is to stiff it can cause problems has happen to me. Do you know if you got a good saddle fit?
Maybe hes back being super sore again, since hes stiff when you first get on him.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-06-07 3:27 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Gator Bug - 2016-06-07 3:17 PM We had a 4YO do this years ago. It was when you went to cinch him. He would explode if you tightened too quickly or most of it at once. We had an older gentleman that saw this in race horses. He cinched him, the horse exploded and passed out. We had to cut the cinch. The old guy told us he saw it in race horses that a nerve would be over the muscle and not under the way it should be. He said it was rare. Cinching quickly or all at once would pinch that nerve. Then, the horse also gets nervous about cinching and expecting it and then can freak out. I mean ours flipped a couple times and passed out. We went to cinching very loose, walked him and then tighten again...repeat. We took it slow at first, then he just stopped doing it. But we always tightened a little and then walked some after that with that horse...he never did it again. I know it sounds completely nuts...like a myth or an old wives tale, but it did work. That would something to look into too and like the other poster {Chaseingcans} said maybe just treat for ulcers also, it would not hurt.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-06-07 3:28 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Saddle pad is brand new CSI second time riding in it but other pad causes him to do this too. Saddle is a Shiloh Jerri Mann and it seems to fit him good leaves a good sweat pattern and doesn't appear to be uneven when set on him bare. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-07 3:27 PM Saddle pad is brand new CSI second time riding in it but other pad causes him to do this too. Saddle is a Shiloh Jerri Mann and it seems to fit him good leaves a good sweat pattern and doesn't appear to be uneven when set on him bare.
Sounds like you have covered all that you can. Like the others in the above post said, check for the issues that they were talking about the cinch and a nerve behind the elbow area. Good luck to you, hope that you get this figured out..  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Southtxponygirl - 2016-06-07 3:26 PM Gator Bug - 2016-06-07 3:17 PM We had a 4YO do this years ago. It was when you went to cinch him. He would explode if you tightened too quickly or most of it at once. We had an older gentleman that saw this in race horses. He cinched him, the horse exploded and passed out. We had to cut the cinch. The old guy told us he saw it in race horses that a nerve would be over the muscle and not under the way it should be. He said it was rare. Cinching quickly or all at once would pinch that nerve. Then, the horse also gets nervous about cinching and expecting it and then can freak out. I mean ours flipped a couple times and passed out. We went to cinching very loose, walked him and then tighten again...repeat. We took it slow at first, then he just stopped doing it. But we always tightened a little and then walked some after that with that horse...he never did it again. I know it sounds completely nuts...like a myth or an old wives tale, but it did work. That would something to look into too and like the other poster {Chaseingcans} said maybe just treat for ulcers also, it would not hurt.
I have never had one do that before or after. It is very violent and crazy scary. I really freaked when he passed out. Like the old guy told us they stop breathing. That's why we had to cut the cinch that one time as this sucker did pass out and stopped breathing. It does get worse if you don't try to fix it, as I found out. It is a pretty rare condition. I found some about pinched nerves and cinching on Google, but there really isn't much about it. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| The one I had that did that went to a really good chiropractor. Some stuff popped and crunched audibly, he got a week off, and never flipped over or locked up again. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | WYOracer - 2016-06-07 1:15 PM First vet to look at him was also a chiro he felt he was sore in his feet and his shoulders so adjusted them they were super sore. Second opinion we did the radiographs of his back and that's when we injected. Saddle pad is brand new and I did check the cinch but need to go over the saddle again last I checked it it was fine and he will go win the 1D and be fine one day but then the next he ran off with me and then back to win another jackpot and now this.
Does he have kissing spine? How much time off did you give him? |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Go on line and look at the video for checking ulcer pressure points. Since that costs nothing, I would start there. I was skeptical about that at first, but have found it to have some value as a first check. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I had one that did that exact behavior due to ulcers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Anniemae - 2016-06-07 2:44 PM
WYOracer - 2016-06-07 1:15 PM First vet to look at him was also a chiro he felt he was sore in his feet and his shoulders so adjusted them they were super sore. Second opinion we did the radiographs of his back and that's when we injected. Saddle pad is brand new and I did check the cinch but need to go over the saddle again last I checked it it was fine and he will go win the 1D and be fine one day but then the next he ran off with me and then back to win another jackpot and now this.
Does he have kissing spine? How much time off did you give him?
Vet didn't feel he was bad enough to consider needing surgery felt the injections was all that was needed. He said give him a week with bute then back to work. |
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 Member
Posts: 23
| He's cinchy. After you saddle him, put him in the round pen and make him lope him around for a little bit (without you on him). Cause he's probably going to act like that for a while until he gets over it, if he ever does. Just round pen him before you ride him so he can act silly and lope himself down a little until he gets over the cinch, and then get on him. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | Change saddles. Be first thing i would do. A tree out line not level can cause all kinds of troubles. You can pad that away,chiro and all those wont help if the saddle tree is not correct. Level. |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | I saw exactly that once, it was EPM. Sorry to be a bummer, but get him checked for it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I would treat for ulcers. If you gave him Bute for a week this may have made them worse so I'd go ahead and treat for them and see if that changes anything. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Treat for ulcers and research for kissing spine. Mine would do the same thing. |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| WYOracer - 2016-06-07 12:41 PM Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now?
I'm still hung up on this.....I'd have a hard time not looking deeper into the kissing spine. Was a bone scan recommended?
Glad you're both ok and I hope you get it figured out.
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Gator Bug - 2016-06-07 2:34 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2016-06-07 3:26 PM Gator Bug - 2016-06-07 3:17 PM We had a 4YO do this years ago. It was when you went to cinch him. He would explode if you tightened too quickly or most of it at once. We had an older gentleman that saw this in race horses. He cinched him, the horse exploded and passed out. We had to cut the cinch. The old guy told us he saw it in race horses that a nerve would be over the muscle and not under the way it should be. He said it was rare. Cinching quickly or all at once would pinch that nerve. Then, the horse also gets nervous about cinching and expecting it and then can freak out. I mean ours flipped a couple times and passed out. We went to cinching very loose, walked him and then tighten again...repeat. We took it slow at first, then he just stopped doing it. But we always tightened a little and then walked some after that with that horse...he never did it again. I know it sounds completely nuts...like a myth or an old wives tale, but it did work. That would something to look into too and like the other poster {Chaseingcans} said maybe just treat for ulcers also, it would not hurt.
I've heard about this too. If he isn't getting better after testing for ulcers I'd try a smaller cinch, almost too small but that way it won't be cinched in your horses bad spot. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | barrelracinbroke - 2016-06-07 5:26 PM
WYOracer - 2016-06-07 12:41 PM Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now?
I'm still hung up on this.....I'd have a hard time not looking deeper into the kissing spine. Was a bone scan recommended?
Glad you're both ok and I hope you get it figured out.
The rads were two weeks ago. This was the third time I've saddled him since. First two he was fine this time was at a jackpot. I Unsaddled loaded him up and made a vet appointment. Couldn't get in until Friday just curious to see if anyone has had similar cases wether it is related to the spine issue or something else entirely that we are missing. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-07 2:41 PM
Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now?
He's cinchy. They don't get over it. Saddle, don't pull tight, walk tighten more, walk tighten more, lunge pull tight lunge get on. These horses will set back just so you know. It's just them. They are costerphobic. |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Ulcers. Run some omeprazole through him and get him on Guardion. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| barrelracinbroke - 2016-06-07 6:26 PM
WYOracer - 2016-06-07 12:41 PM Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now?
I'm still hung up on this.....I'd have a hard time not looking deeper into the kissing spine. Was a bone scan recommended?
Glad you're both ok and I hope you get it figured out.
Was the xray done with a clinic based xray machine? And he had a few spots 'touching'? Please pursue this. KS is present in about 40% of the equine population, and has only been documented in the past 10 years or so since clinic based machines were available. If your horse is this dramatic there is something wrong, very wrong. I didn't listen early enough to my KS horse, and I regret every day of it. When horses do this 'cinchy' isn't the problem it's the symptom.
Check back with the guy that did the injections and go from there. Good Luck. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I have flies like you would not believe around here. My horse's mid line has sores all the way down it. I would certainly check that area. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| How old is this horse? I have a 1D horse who when getting her back into shape this year decided to start getting spooky (she's 9) and bucked a few times the cinch touched her when saddling, thought it was a fluke thing and then she bucked me off once after saddling and getting on right away  completely totally unlike her to do anything like this. She randomly freaked out/bucked/pulled back about 4 times (different days) and then just stopped all of a sudden so I never got the chance to look into it. She is on Omeprazole and has breathing problems so is back on her meds so I'm guessing it was one of those two things...maybe look into those? Along with maybe see a different vet about KS |
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Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Could be kidding spine or just cinchy. Did the radiograph show her back vertebrae were touching? |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| WYOracer - 2016-06-07 5:11 PM barrelracinbroke - 2016-06-07 5:26 PM WYOracer - 2016-06-07 12:41 PM Ok anyone have a horse do this? My gelding has always been a little touchy when you saddle him by I always assumed it was just something pinching him bc he would freeze up but as soon as you adjusted the saddle a little bit he was fine and walks off. Well recently it's gotten worse and we went to the vet took some rads and he had a couple spots in his back that were touching so we injected those places. Gave him some time off and rode him and he was still a little stiff at first but rode out fine like normal. We bought a CSI pad to see if that didn't help him out and I rode him in it and he was fine. I went to a barrel race last night saddled him and started tightening the cinch which I do slowly bc of the issue and he freezes again so I adjust and he does it again! So I smooched to him to move out of it and he flies back words throws himself to the ground violently gets up does it two more times lays out flat I try getting saddle undone but can't someone tries to come help me and he blows again finally steps on his rope and stops himself. We have an appointment back at the vet on Friday but any ideas? I'm wondering if it's not a sternum or whither a issue now? I'm still hung up on this.....I'd have a hard time not looking deeper into the kissing spine. Was a bone scan recommended?
Glad you're both ok and I hope you get it figured out.
The rads were two weeks ago. This was the third time I've saddled him since. First two he was fine this time was at a jackpot. I Unsaddled loaded him up and made a vet appointment. Couldn't get in until Friday just curious to see if anyone has had similar cases wether it is related to the spine issue or something else entirely that we are missing.
I'm just thinking out loud here but, if was this was the third time he'd been saddled since he was injected a couple of weeks ago and he was ok the first couple times, it makes me wonder if the injections already wore off. Is it possible there's a little more extensive of an issue in damage to the vertebrae than injections were able to negate and hence they only lasted a couple of weeks? Curious as to what steroid he used and if he used HA as well......
Or, maybe it is ulcers, or cinchy or something. I've never had a horse flip over from ulcers and I'm quite thankful for that!
Please keep us updated, I'm interested to hear what your vet has to say. Wishing you the best in figuring it out.
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | I would also look more into the kissing spine. I speak from experience. lol. When they have KS, they also have muscle spasms which can happen at any given moment. Mine would act like something was trying to kill him one minute and the next he was fine. Sometimes the injections don't last long at all. As others have said, I would also treat for ulcers. Anything causing the pain can also cause them to develop ulcers. Good luck! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | I'm going to see if they will scope on Friday as well as obviously recheck the spine and see if he's ounchy again. I cinch him slow this was only about halfway tight and was walking when he froze up I normally would readjust the saddle but I had already done that twice so just smooched him forward and he exploded. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | I also have been palpating his back where we did the injections and where he was super back sore and he seems relatively pain free I can get a reaction but it's very mild and I have to press pretty hard so that's why I'm wondering if this was caused by something else but will definitely still look into the KS more. |
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Location: NE Texas | Griz - 2016-06-08 5:18 AM
YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking.
ditto - my 6 year old thoroughbred mare does this. I even untie her when I'm cinching now just in case she sits back. She's extremely touchy - she doesn't even really liked to be brushed and certainly not with a stiff brush. I've tried different saddles, pads, girths, chiro, vet check, ulcer treatment.... the only thing that's made a difference is now when I saddle I just put it on her and do one-loop around and don't tighten...go around and do some other things and let her settle with it on.... walk her around...tighten enough to get on.... warm her up and after I feel her loosen up I do some flexing. I DO NOT flex until she's relaxed...if I ask for flex before she's relaxed under the saddle it's stiff/quick movements so I just wait until I feel her relax before asking her to do other things. I can jump on bare back and no problem - i really think it has something to do with the nerve around the cinch as others have mentioned but i am not 100% certain. I'd like to add that she is not sore at all in any pressure points. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Hope you get it figured out.....keep us updated. Could magnesium help with the touchiness and sensitivity? I know it's a small piece of the puzzle but it popped in my head. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | reading a horses mind is definately a process
1) I would start with giving something for ulcers and i would cover front and hind. I like to use ritetrack as it is buffered and will help front and hind. I don't use to cure but it will give them relief very quickly and you will know in a few days if that is your problem.
2) after a few days. I would start on an absorbable magnesium
3) as far as nerve or ribs I would try a surcingle and try it pretty tight taking normal precautions to cinch up slow but tight. just looking to see if the horse doesn't care because it is not a saddle. go ahead and work horse with it on, then check to see if he associates that with pain in a couple days.
4) if surcingle is ok, then have saddle checked to see if the tree is twisted/broke or just not fitting right. if the surcingle was ok but after working he later resents it then i would go with pain and who knows where it is coming from...
5) vet again and take these results to him/her. tests that would be interesting to check out would be pssm 1, 2 and epm. thermal scan of back/wither area. pelvic exam
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| reese_tx - 2016-06-08 8:50 AM
Griz - 2016-06-08 5:18 AM
YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking.
ditto - my 6 year old thoroughbred mare does this. I even untie her when I'm cinching now just in case she sits back. She's extremely touchy - she doesn't even really liked to be brushed and certainly not with a stiff brush. I've tried different saddles, pads, girths, chiro, vet check, ulcer treatment.... the only thing that's made a difference is now when I saddle I just put it on her and do one-loop around and don't tighten...go around and do some other things and let her settle with it on.... walk her around...tighten enough to get on.... warm her up and after I feel her loosen up I do some flexing. I DO NOT flex until she's relaxed...if I ask for flex before she's relaxed under the saddle it's stiff/quick movements so I just wait until I feel her relax before asking her to do other things. I can jump on bare back and no problem - i really think it has something to do with the nerve around the cinch as others have mentioned but i am not 100% certain. I'd like to add that she is not sore at all in any pressure points.
Yes, I definitely untie her too - although she has never pulled back, I sure don't want to get that started too! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Griz - 2016-06-08 11:12 AM
reese_tx - 2016-06-08 8:50 AM
Griz - 2016-06-08 5:18 AM
YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking.
ditto - my 6 year old thoroughbred mare does this. I even untie her when I'm cinching now just in case she sits back. She's extremely touchy - she doesn't even really liked to be brushed and certainly not with a stiff brush. I've tried different saddles, pads, girths, chiro, vet check, ulcer treatment.... the only thing that's made a difference is now when I saddle I just put it on her and do one-loop around and don't tighten...go around and do some other things and let her settle with it on.... walk her around...tighten enough to get on.... warm her up and after I feel her loosen up I do some flexing. I DO NOT flex until she's relaxed...if I ask for flex before she's relaxed under the saddle it's stiff/quick movements so I just wait until I feel her relax before asking her to do other things. I can jump on bare back and no problem - i really think it has something to do with the nerve around the cinch as others have mentioned but i am not 100% certain. I'd like to add that she is not sore at all in any pressure points.
Yes, I definitely untie her too - although she has never pulled back, I sure don't want to get that started too!
I always untie him bc he does have a habit of setting back so whenever I start to cinch I untie and then walk tighten some more etc. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | kwanatha - 2016-06-08 9:38 AM
reading a horses mind is definately a process
1) I would start with giving something for ulcers and i would cover front and hind. I like to use ritetrack as it is buffered and will help front and hind. I don't use to cure but it will give them relief very quickly and you will know in a few days if that is your problem.
2) after a few days. I would start on an absorbable magnesium
3) as far as nerve or ribs I would try a surcingle and try it pretty tight taking normal precautions to cinch up slow but tight. just looking to see if the horse doesn't care because it is not a saddle. go ahead and work horse with it on, then check to see if he associates that with pain in a couple days.
4) if surcingle is ok, then have saddle checked to see if the tree is twisted/broke or just not fitting right. if the surcingle was ok but after working he later resents it then i would go with pain and who knows where it is coming from...
5) vet again and take these results to him/her. tests that would be interesting to check out would be pssm 1, 2 and epm. thermal scan of back/wither area. pelvic exam
That's not a bad idea trying a surcingle and eliminating the saddle from the equation. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I would definitely look into KS (not to sound like a broken record). But... my gelding has mild KS (they don't actual touch but have as there is some damage to 3 processes). He was extremely cinchy and he is an all-around sweet heart and he made some pretty nasty gestures before we got it figured out. I didn't notice so much when I palpated as far as pain reaction but he was super tight over that area.
Have you tried doing belly lifts to see if he gets cranky about it?
Also, just because a horse isn't a surgery candidate due to KS. There is still a lot more that goes into aside from injections. Just my two cents. I have a KS horses and have known a couple over the years. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | I would be very careful with this type of behavior. I had a very nice 4 year do this. He was a nice quiet horse 99.99% of the time. I had never had any issues and then about 3 months after I bought him I had tied to my trailer at a show. I was saddling him the same as always. I never tighten a cinch all at one time. I always just tighten a little at time and then go do something else. Then I untie to tighten enough to get on. Well I was half through when he blew up. Pulled back on rope an flipped over, I could see it coming so I just got out of his way. Waited until he was done and finished tightening up and got on. No big deal. A year went by with no incidence. Then a year later I was at another show and saddled him same as usual walked him out a bit because that is something I do and then I got on. Then fear struck, I felt him kinda puff up and I thought OMG. he is going to do what he had done a year before at the trailer except I was on him. Just as I thought to get off which was only seconds, he blew. Just threw him self up and over.. I was still in the saddle when he hit the ground. He got up and I did not. I had a broken femur. It was broken off in several pieces right up by my hip joint. Was laid up for a year. Three months of which I was in a wheel chair. My family told me he was pretty stiff the next few days also. My point being, when they do this they don't care if they even hurt themselves. It is a very dangerous situation. Just be very careful and aware that it can happen with you on him. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 11:10 PM
I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers.
Yes his was a fly backwards tried to lay down then exploded! Flipping himself over multiple times. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| I've got a mare right now that I'm dealing with this. She has been on ulcerguard for a week, vetted (no kissing spine, everything else looked good, is on regumate). I do suspect ulcers, however have not seen much improvement after a week so far. She is annoyed at being saddled, but doesn't act out. She lunges fine and I take my time girthing her up. Everything is good until you get on and ask her to move. I've worked on her standing while I get on (she used to just want to walk/run/spin circles) and that's better, but she freezes up. I cluck, kiss, anything to get her to move without having to put a leg on her bc once I do, look out. Once I get past the first 5 minutes of the "episode", she rides off fine and doesn't offer to do any funny (or not so funny) business after that. It's frustrating and dangerous. The lady that had her let it escalate to this point. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | WYOracer - 2016-06-09 1:24 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 11:10 PM I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers. Yes his was a fly backwards tried to lay down then exploded! Flipping himself over multiple times.
I would not saddle or ride this horse until you go back to the vet. This horse is screaming pain. The injections didnt work or he wasnt given enough time off. KS doesnt correct itself, this horse needs medical intervention. Find the best clinic in your area and take your horse there. Look for a vet with experience treating KS and keep us updated, Good luck!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located? |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | outrundaizy - 2016-06-11 12:04 AM
WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located?
Dr. Jeff Foland at Weatherford Equine and Dr. Ford was the first vet to see him but only thought he was sore in his front right and left shoulder. Thought more was going on so made a follow up with Jeff when we got home. I live south of Graham about an hour from Weatherford.
Edited by WYOracer 2016-06-11 12:46 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | livinonlove&horses - 2016-06-11 6:20 AM
WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off
What's the rehab that you went through? |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | WYOracer - 2016-06-11 12:44 PM livinonlove&horses - 2016-06-11 6:20 AM WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off What's the rehab that you went through?
I am interested as well. How did the horse come back? |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-11 12:41 PM outrundaizy - 2016-06-11 12:04 AM WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located? Dr. Jeff Foland at Weatherford Equine and Dr. Ford was the first vet to see him but only thought he was sore in his front right and left shoulder. Thought more was going on so made a follow up with Jeff when we got home. I live south of Graham about an hour from Weatherford.
If you want to get a third opinion I would highly suggest Jessica Garrett, she is with Stephenville Equine and use to work at Lonestar park with Dr. Wes Williams. She is a barrel racer and she is an amazing vet! |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| teehaha - 2016-06-14 9:41 AM
We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone
I won't use neoprene anything, only use mohair cinches. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | Griz - 2016-06-14 10:04 AM teehaha - 2016-06-14 9:41 AM We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone I won't use neoprene anything, only use mohair cinches.
I had the opposite problem. I was using mohair cinches when my horse started getting mean about being cinched. He wanted to hurt me! I switched to the neoprene and he is back to normal. Go figure. |
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Horse explodes after saddling UPDATE