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| My vet is having me give one of my horses some ACE. She said I have 3 choices. 1/2-1cc IV, 2cc IM, or 1-2cc orally. Most consistent results come from IV. I can do any of these. What would be your choice? Thanks. |
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Location: SE Louisiana | What happened to your horse? I'd go with the advice of the person that did the time to graduate from vet school.. (JMHO)
If not, I'd shoot 2 CCs into a slice of apple, if the horse likes apples... Horses, for the most part, don't care much for you poking holes in them (IV) You lose trust that way.  Horses, much like elephants, never forget... |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | What is the reasoning for the Ace? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | When and if I have to use ace I shoot it in the mouth..orally
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-06-08 9:07 AM
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Expert
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| LOL Horse is totally fine........ I just need something during training and hauling for a few months that " Takes the edge off" and lets my horse learn and pay attention is all. Believe me, he is good, I am good, just wanted to use a small amount on the advice of My vet. Thanks all!!! I don't mind giving IV, just want to save those veins and that route of Administration uses far LESS medication than say 2cc orally. Thanks so much all! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | FLITASTIC - 2016-06-08 9:18 AM LOL Horse is totally fine........ I just need something during training and hauling for a few months that " Takes the edge off" and lets my horse learn and pay attention is all. Believe me, he is good, I am good, just wanted to use a small amount on the advice of My vet. Thanks all!!! I don't mind giving IV, just want to save those veins and that route of Administration uses far LESS medication than say 2cc orally. Thanks so much all!
Just give him 1cc and see if that does the trick to start out with. |
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | Careful with ace as it can cause them to be sluggish and trip. May want to try it at home first and see if your boy is a 'light weight' or not. I did it with my colt after he tossed me last season, more for me to feel comfortable on him, but stopped due to all the tripping it was causing. I did 1/2-1 pill in a carrot, or just hand fed it to him. He'd be easy to posion. Lol. Now I'm using Animal Element "In The Zone" paste. Per the horses reactions it tastes horrible, even in grain. Going to give it a few more tries before I really decide if it's helping or not. |
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Location: Brady, Texas | I would start out with a 1/2 cc IM or IV to 3/4 cc at first. Most likely wont need a full cc. It knocks them out and yes will be very sluggish. I ride a 15.3 really big horse and 1/2 cc IM when competing on him, he is like a different horse, with great manners. He can get really bad acting with nerves and it helps him tremendously. Vita Calm is really good for one that is not that bad or just needing for what you are needing it for.
Edited by mmstanley 2016-06-08 11:19 AM
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| Three*C*Champs - 2016-06-08 8:06 AM
Careful with ace as it can cause them to be sluggish and trip. May want to try it at home first and see if your boy is a 'light weight' or not. I did it with my colt after he tossed me last season, more for me to feel comfortable on him, but stopped due to all the tripping it was causing. I did 1/2-1 pill in a carrot, or just hand fed it to him. He'd be easy to posion. Lol. Now I'm using Animal Element "In The Zone" paste. Per the horses reactions it tastes horrible, even in grain. Going to give it a few more tries before I really decide if it's helping or not.
Yup, I'm going to try 1cc Orally to begin with. Ive used it in the past quite a bit and some horses are drunk with half CC, and one time I had a mare that had a dose of 6CC / IV didnt even phase her. LOL |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Three*C*Champs - 2016-06-08 10:06 AM Careful with ace as it can cause them to be sluggish and trip. May want to try it at home first and see if your boy is a 'light weight' or not. I did it with my colt after he tossed me last season, more for me to feel comfortable on him, but stopped due to all the tripping it was causing. I did 1/2-1 pill in a carrot, or just hand fed it to him. He'd be easy to posion. Lol. Now I'm using Animal Element "In The Zone" paste. Per the horses reactions it tastes horrible, even in grain. Going to give it a few more tries before I really decide if it's helping or not.
I think any more then 1/2 to 1 cc would be to much, had a horse if 1 cc was giving to him you could not ride him, would trip over his own feet, was not safe to ride at all, 1/2 cc worked better on him, then after he got over the calfs and shadows in the arena he got to be the best, only had to use it twice on him. |
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| mmstanley - 2016-06-08 9:17 AM
I would start out with a 1/2 cc IM or IV to 3/4 cc at first. Most likely wont need a full cc. It knocks them out and yes will be very sluggish. I ride a 15.3 really big horse and 1/2 cc IM when competing on him, he is like a different horse, with great manners. He can get really bad acting with nerves and it helps him tremendously. Vita Calm is really good for one that is not that bad or just needing for what you are needing it for.
I have tried vita calm and I agree, when I gave it at HOME, it really mellowed my horse out, but there was no pressure. But I gave him 3 scoops 1/2 hour before riding on Sunday when there was " Pressure" and it did not work one bit. lol Vet also said to make sure I give the ACE TWO HOURS before I need to " Run" as that initial stumbling drowsey stage is usually over by then, but they maintain the focus aspect of it. |
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| Southtxponygirl - 2016-06-08 9:29 AM
Three*C*Champs - 2016-06-08 10:06 AM Careful with ace as it can cause them to be sluggish and trip. May want to try it at home first and see if your boy is a 'light weight' or not. I did it with my colt after he tossed me last season, more for me to feel comfortable on him, but stopped due to all the tripping it was causing. I did 1/2-1 pill in a carrot, or just hand fed it to him. He'd be easy to posion. Lol. Now I'm using Animal Element "In The Zone" paste. Per the horses reactions it tastes horrible, even in grain. Going to give it a few more tries before I really decide if it's helping or not.
I think any more then 1/2 to 1 cc would be to much, had a horse if 1 cc was giving to him you could not ride him, would trip over his own feet, was not safe to ride at all, 1/2 cc worked better on him, then after he got over the calfs and shadows in the arena he got to be the best, only had to use it twice on him.
Absolutely, this is ONLY TEMPORARY to get through this stage in his life then he won't need any of it. He is SO LAID BACK at home i need to haul someplace to try it lol If I give him half cc at home he will probably lay down and take a nap. lol I need to check dosage when he is in racehorse mode... |
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 Vodka for Lunch
Location: Lala Land | My vet suggested that I start with 2cc IM. I tried the oral and he was so dead mouthed... and way off acting. I ended up 1/2cc IM 1 1/2 hours out and that seemed to be perfect. I only made like 5 runs and he got through it after an injury. It stinks to have to play with dosage but I liked IM better than oral, didn't try IV. |
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Location: Georgia | My horse did so good getting 1/2 CC IV 2 hrs out. He was relaxed and focused during warm up, not sluggish at all but relaxed. ANd when it came time to run he got a little nervous but nothing bad at all. Is it just me or does a IV shot done correctly feel so much less invasive then an IM shot? I hate stabbing that needle all the way into their muscle. Especially in the neck area. I bet that makes them sore. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | One thing to be careful of when giving Ace is if the horse is already excited or has an elevated heart rate, I have seen the Ace actually make the exciteability worse....even dangerous for this one particular horse. I know this isn't the case for all horses, but I have witnessed it first hand many years ago and don't use Ace any more because of it.
Prior to this incident, I have given 1/4 cc in the muscle to know the edge off of colts the first couple of times I hauled them. Seemed to be ok until this one incident. High strung colt, and 1/4cc Ace was a bad combination. Later when he calmed down, I spoke with my vet about what happened, and he said that yes, if the heart rate is already elevated, it can have an adverse affect.
Just a heads up. 
Edited by Herbie 2016-06-08 2:30 PM
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| Lovin Life - 2016-06-08 11:24 AM
My vet suggested that I start with 2cc IM. I tried the oral and he was so dead mouthed... and way off acting. I ended up 1/2cc IM 1 1/2 hours out and that seemed to be perfect. I only made like 5 runs and he got through it after an injury. It stinks to have to play with dosage but I liked IM better than oral, didn't try IV.
Exactly, I have a fresh 50cc bottle at home and I told my vet what a waste it was cause I am only going to need maybe 10cc of this whole bottle to get him past this little bump in the road... |
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| Herbie - 2016-06-08 12:27 PM
One thing to be careful of when giving Ace is if the horse is already excited or has an elevated heart rate, I have seen the Ace actually make the exciteability worse....even dangerous for this one particular horse. I know this isn't the case for all horses, but I have witnessed it first hand many years ago and don't use Ace any more because of it.
Prior to this incident, I have given 1/4 cc in the muscle to know the edge off of colts the first couple of times I hauled them. Seemed to be ok until this one incident. High strung colt, and 1/4cc Ace was a bad combination. Later when he calmed down, I spoke with my vet about what happened, and he said that yes, if the heart rate is already elevated, it can have an adverse affect.
Just a heads up.
Hey Herbie, Yep, I am well aware that when you use it you basically give it and leave them tied at trailer for a bit. My vet even mentioned that if I haul to a new place he hasnt been to plan early, get there and let him just sit an hour before giving it. That was he can relax ahead of time. He is unique in that he is an absolute LAID BACK dead head at home, and even at races when you get there. You can walk him around with NO BOOTS ON and he will be a dead head all darn day!! Its when he KNOWS its time to go run, boots go on, etc that he can't focus. And darn it, its not like he hates it he LOVES his job but at the track he was taught that saddle, warm up, lope a little and WHAM, in the gates and your done in what 15 seconds??? LOL SO barrel racing to him is going through same motions. Thats why I think he settles in so fast once FIRST BARREL is over, he just relaxes the rest of the pattern. lol |
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Vodka for Lunch
Location: Lala Land | FLITASTIC - 2016-06-08 2:43 PM
Lovin Life - 2016-06-08 11:24 AM
My vet suggested that I start with 2cc IM. I tried the oral and he was so dead mouthed... and way off acting. I ended up 1/2cc IM 1 1/2 hours out and that seemed to be perfect. I only made like 5 runs and he got through it after an injury. It stinks to have to play with dosage but I liked IM better than oral, didn't try IV.
Exactly, I have a fresh 50cc bottle at home and I told my vet what a waste it was cause I am only going to need maybe 10cc of this whole bottle to get him past this little bump in the road...
Since I have used a paste called Focus and the Relax.... basically because I already had it. I have time onlied without anything and he was perfect. Hope you have as good of luck as I did. :) |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| zylkene has make a huge difference in my rodeo mare. I load it two days before and then use it through the weekend. |
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| I've found IV works better. |
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The Advice Guru
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| Just be cautious especially if this is a gelding.
Ace even given once can cause permanent damage to the muscles that retract the penis, therefore can cause urinary incontinence, and have the penis continually hanging out. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Personally I prefer chlorpromazine but be careful how much you give them. ?? |
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 Stinky Cat Owner
Posts: 4097
Location: Oregon | Oxy Zen - Works great and won't make them 'druggy' (is that a real word lol?)
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| I would always trust what my vet suggests as they are the professional.
I have used and do use ace on many occasions on some horses I think it makes them sluggish, but that is my opinion.
I currently have a young one that acts very much like the horse you describe and I have been using Animal Element In The Zone. It is a paste comes in a tube like bute its $20 and you can get at least 4 doses. Its great stuff does not take any run out but just settles those nerves so they can focus. I would think it would be worth a shot to try. Animal Element are all natural products, and no I'm not a dealer just a happy customer lol! |
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Expert
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| cheryl makofka - 2016-06-08 2:49 PM
Just be cautious especially if this is a gelding.
Ace even given once can cause permanent damage to the muscles that retract the penis, therefore can cause urinary incontinence, and have the penis continually hanging out.
Asked my vet about this very thing. She said in that small a dose won't likely happen. And I can't give it BEFORE I haul because that increases the risk of penis paralyzation. |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 4:16 PM zylkene has make a huge difference in my rodeo mare. I load it two days before and then use it through the weekend.
I second this product. Best stuff ever. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | Runninbay - 2016-06-08 6:52 PM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 4:16 PM zylkene has make a huge difference in my rodeo mare. I load it two days before and then use it through the weekend.
I second this product. Best stuff ever.
Where can you get this stuff at and how is it administered? |
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Posts: 232
Location: Winging It in KY | Just heard an infomercial on this product, Zylkene, this morning on Rural Radio. Said that you can get it from your vet but it is not a perscription. Googled it and saw it at Valley Vet and Amazon. Looks to be $150. Administered with packets.
ETA product name.
Edited by cuckleburr 2016-06-09 8:59 AM
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| I would give Guanabenz instead of Ace. I had to give it to a nervous gelding on the pattern and it really helps with the focuse part and it doesn't take away from their performance. I've done 1/2 ccs up to 2ccs. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| cuckleburr - 2016-06-09 8:54 AM Just heard an infomercial on this product, Zylkene, this morning on Rural Radio. Said that you can get it from your vet but it is not a perscription. Googled it and saw it at Valley Vet and Amazon. Looks to be $150. Administered with packets.
ETA product name.
go to viovet.com and order it from the UK. Its only 100 dollars compared to 150 and it only takes 10 days to get. Ive already ordered two boxes from viovet.com.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2016-06-09 6:00 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| I prefer the guanabenz also, faster acting but the downside is that it gets expensive. About the ace- you will likely need more than 1cc orally. If it's a small horse (900lbs 14 hands), 1.5-2 may do.
Larger horses I always start at the low 1.5-2 cc dose. Rarely have I seen results with that low, but I have once so it depends on the horse. Work your way up to a higher dose, play around with it at home. I've had to do at least 2-3cc an hour before ride. I know people that will do 4cc oral. Just depends on the horse sensitivity. Go the oral route over shots.
Edited by epoh 2016-06-10 7:10 AM
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| Guanabenze- Are you giving it orally or injection? |
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Expert
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| Just an update. Went to the barrel race last night and gave 1/2cc ace 2 hours out, which turned into THREE hours out by the time I ran. They had to wait for sun to go down as it was messing with the electric eye.  I get it, just messed up my dosing plans. My colt warmed up good/same as always but where I noticed a positive change was coming into the arena for our run. Normally he is NOT hyper, but " Tight" and ready to run, and explodes from the line. This time he CALMLY walked in on a lose rein. I set him at the starting line few seconds and then made my run. THat was a positive VERY positive step forward. THat dosage should be fine I think. He was NOT Dull and did NOT stumble. Not sluggish. His behavior tied to the trailer was MUCH MUCH better. No pawing and looking around. He sat there and munched grass hay like a gentleman until I saddled. I still need to fix his first barrel a little but we placed good in 3D and I didnt ask for ANY speed.
My next trial is going to be to see what dosage is good IM. Last night I went IV. If I can get good results IM then I would prefer to save his veins. |
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Location: Brady, Texas | I give mine IM as well and 1/2 cc. Good to hear he did so well. My horse does the same now, I can walk him in loose rein and is like a different horse and not a ball of nerves.  |
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Expert
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| mmstanley - 2016-06-10 9:57 AM
I give mine IM as well and 1/2 cc. Good to hear he did so well. My horse does the same now, I can walk him in loose rein and is like a different horse and not a ball of nerves.
Thanks, next time I am going to try 1/2cc IM!!!! |
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 Elite Veteran
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| My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them. |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | okhorselover - 2016-06-10 5:57 PM My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
Totally disagree with this statement. My x is a shoer and he always uses it on hard to shoe horses. We use it on colts when we first start trimming them because they don't fight and have a bad experience. They LEARN it isn't bad. We have never had to continue to use it after one or two times. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| ozcancrasher13 - 2016-06-10 9:14 PM
okhorselover - 2016-06-10 5:57 PM My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
Totally disagree with this statement. My x is a shoer and he always uses it on hard to shoe horses. We use it on colts when we first start trimming them because they don't fight and have a bad experience. They LEARN it isn't bad. We have never had to continue to use it after one or two times.
Me too. Lots of high dollar calf horses are trained on Ace and weaned off.
I've had several young horses that I've used chemical calming products on, just a handful of times, that go on to be solid nice horses. It's all in how you use it. |
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Expert
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| okhorselover - 2016-06-10 3:57 PM
My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
I respectfully disagree and so does my performance horse vet. She used to work for s very prominent Thorobred race horse farm and they used small doses of ace to train colts in the starting gate. It gives them an absolute " positive " experience. Once they learned it was a positive place they no longer had to use it. I have talked to a lot of people that use it and when used correctly in small doses it certainly ALLOWS them to think and learn. It's the same concept for kids with ADHD. If they are unable to control themselves in school they are not learning. Once they get dosage correct the child is able to manage impulses, sit quietly, and pay attention to the lessons in school. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | I have no problem using a little chemical calming because I want the horse to have a good experience and keep my farrier forever happy, healthy and on schedule to get to his other clients... A lot of horses we had in for training were either spoiled, not handled much or had bad training, we had no problem using a little Ace to keep everyone safe... Of course always with permission from owner and vet supervision.
Edited by turn3turnsok 2016-06-12 9:33 AM
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Elite Veteran
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| FLITASTIC - 2016-06-10 11:58 PM
okhorselover - 2016-06-10 3:57 PM
My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
I respectfully disagree and so does my performance horse vet. She used to work for s very prominent Thorobred race horse farm and they used small doses of ace to train colts in the starting gate. It gives them an absolute " positive " experience. Once they learned it was a positive place they no longer had to use it. I have talked to a lot of people that use it and when used correctly in small doses it certainly ALLOWS them to think and learn. It's the same concept for kids with ADHD. If they are unable to control themselves in school they are not learning. Once they get dosage correct the child is able to manage impulses, sit quietly, and pay attention to the lessons in school.
That is ok, to each their own. I have used ace on a weanling we had because we needed to freeze brand her & she wasn't going to have anything to do with it & we didn't want her to hurt herself in the stocks. I'm not against using it as there are times one may need to , to protect the horse, but as far as training one goes, I have never had or needed to use it. Best to you & your horse. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| FLITASTIC - 2016-06-10 11:58 PM
okhorselover - 2016-06-10 3:57 PM
My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
I respectfully disagree and so does my performance horse vet. She used to work for s very prominent Thorobred race horse farm and they used small doses of ace to train colts in the starting gate. It gives them an absolute " positive " experience. Once they learned it was a positive place they no longer had to use it. I have talked to a lot of people that use it and when used correctly in small doses it certainly ALLOWS them to think and learn. It's the same concept for kids with ADHD. If they are unable to control themselves in school they are not learning. Once they get dosage correct the child is able to manage impulses, sit quietly, and pay attention to the lessons in school.
Each person to their own, but I am not sure your performance vet would endorse using ace on a regular basis as a training aid.
I do find that vets are stuck in between a rock and a hard place as they are trying to do the best they can for the horse, but their hands are tied (or they feel this way) as the owner/trainer are wanting a quick fix, the miracle drug, or have too high of expectations for the animal they have.
Everything is controlled by the dollar, and vets are very conscious about this, they are trying to give their client the cheapest fix possible that way they do not loose the business of said client.
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| cheryl makofka - 2016-06-12 8:24 PM
FLITASTIC - 2016-06-10 11:58 PM
okhorselover - 2016-06-10 3:57 PM
My shoer made a great comment about aceing horse's that are hard to shoe. What he doesn't like is the horse being under the influence doesn't learn. They are drugged. The best thing is to TEACH your horse to be good for the shoer. I feel the same goes for training. I want my horse's to LEARN, not be drugged to learn. They can't retain training if under the influence. Just a thought for you. Personally I would never ace my horse to train them. If I can't ride them un drugged, I better get my act together or find a better trainer to start them.
I respectfully disagree and so does my performance horse vet. She used to work for s very prominent Thorobred race horse farm and they used small doses of ace to train colts in the starting gate. It gives them an absolute " positive " experience. Once they learned it was a positive place they no longer had to use it. I have talked to a lot of people that use it and when used correctly in small doses it certainly ALLOWS them to think and learn. It's the same concept for kids with ADHD. If they are unable to control themselves in school they are not learning. Once they get dosage correct the child is able to manage impulses, sit quietly, and pay attention to the lessons in school.
Each person to their own, but I am not sure your performance vet would endorse using ace on a regular basis as a training aid.
I do find that vets are stuck in between a rock and a hard place as they are trying to do the best they can for the horse, but their hands are tied (or they feel this way ) as the owner/trainer are wanting a quick fix, the miracle drug, or have too high of expectations for the animal they have.
Everything is controlled by the dollar, and vets are very conscious about this, they are trying to give their client the cheapest fix possible that way they do not loose the business of said client.
I totally get that. And your probably right. Mine is very temporary. Like I got a 50 cc bottle and thought to myself there would be no way I would use all of it. Lol not even close. I have been with my vet 20 years and she is booked absolutely full. Can't take any more clients so money or losing me is not part of her particular decision making. But I have used young vets in emergencies that tried to charge me 20.00 for a roll of vet wrap. Lol I feel sorry for large animal vets. They don't get near as much money as small animal ones. Lol |
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ACE......