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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
  
| Who has had success in finding and purchasing a sound/sane, honest good rodeo horse recently? It simply amazes me the misreprenstation of sellers and horse brokers. So disappointing to spend the money, time and travel to find out horse has issue that sellers we not forth right about initially. Just wanted to vent  |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
  
Location: sunny california | The more you know about horses and selling/buying the longer it will take and the stupider you will look to others for not being able to find something: you will be called a tirekicker simply because you can see problems a year before others, including many vets... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| It is very frustrating the more you know and the more experience you have, the more difficult it is for you to find one.
I bought one last November. She's completely sound and everything, but I have just now gotten her to where I know what to expect when we go up the alley. I switched her to the left and have spent countless hours working with her. I may as well have gone out and bought a 4-5 year old loping the pattern with as much work as I've put into this mare that was sold to me as a finished rodeo horse. Crazy thing is that when I tried her (2 different weekends) we ran and actually were close to placing at a rodeo with some pretty stiff competition, but once I got her home it was a disaster (I'm talking not even fast enough for the 4D). Much better now, but I was very discouraged at first. Not saying it's 100% the sellers fault the horse is a free-runner and I am used to more of a push style, but the horse was not advertised as a project, which is what I got.
ok, rant over.  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | kwanatha - 2016-06-22 10:09 AM
The more you know about horses and selling/buying the longer it will take and the stupider you will look to others for not being able to find something: you will be called a tirekicker simply because you can see problems a year before others, including many vets...
I cannot agree with this more! So true.
I had someone tell me once that I find something wrong with every horse I see.
A sound barrel horse is almost a mythical creature these days.
Yes I am picky and I see issues that others either don't see or ignore.
Just keep looking. There are good ones out there and honest sellers too.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 865
| Sockittoemred - 2016-06-22 10:20 AM
kwanatha - 2016-06-22 10:09 AM
The more you know about horses and selling/buying the longer it will take and the stupider you will look to others for not being able to find something: you will be called a tirekicker simply because you can see problems a year before others, including many vets...
I cannot agree with this more! So true.
I had someone tell me once that I find something wrong with every horse I see.
A sound barrel horse is almost a mythical creature these days.
Yes I am picky and I see issues that others either don't see or ignore.
Just keep looking. There are good ones out there and honest sellers too.
I completely agree that soundness in a horse is never 100% as there will be something, however most is manageable with today's equine healthcare. A sane horse is the probably the biggest challenge when dealing with people you do not know. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | When looking for a horse you have got to do your homework on the person thats selling and the horse that you are looking at. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| I guess I got lucky with mine. Shes sound and sane and so much fun to run!!!! Sent you a PM Texas Tornado |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| I agree, finding a sane barrel horse is hard. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| I agree, finding a sane barrel horse is hard. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I agree that doing your homework on the seller is equally as important as doing your homework on the horse.
**TIP** Thousands of "followers" or "facebook friends" does not automatically mean that seller is honest. Being in the business, making a living for many years, does not mean that seller is honest. Always having plenty of nice looking horses available, does not mean that seller is honest.
You have to get deeper than face value to really know a seller. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | I think a lot can be discovered by good old fashioned research. Research the horse, the rider, the previous owner, the previous owner record, and watch lots of videos. If all videos start after the horse is already in the arena flag it as a potential gate issue horse and ask for a video from start to finish. Check the breed association to see if his papers are current (if applicable) and how many owners the horse has had. If it's a lot there may be an issue or he may have just had bad luck with owners.
If the horse is adequately priced (for the area - research that too) and has been sitting for months flag it as the horse may not be as represented.
When I say flag doesn't mean you totally pass on the horse it means ask more questions, get more videos and if the owner is hesitant ask even more questions -- and take notes. Either you're going to trip up a liar or you're going to find out everything good, bad, and ugly from a honest seller.
I think a lot of people fall in love with a horse by video or pictures (myself included) and we fail to do our homework. I've been totally set on buying some horses until I do my homework and find out the story on the horse isn't even close to the truth.
So now I research like crazy before I buy and so far I've been very happy with what I've purchased site unseen.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | stayceem - 2016-06-22 11:38 AM I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I HATE PPE.........I know they are part of selling but lets face it, a vet can find something wrong with every horse they look at. Just like your friend's horse.........Every horse COULD get navicular but that doesn't mean that they are going to.
I will never let one of mine have a PPE done with out me standing right there. I had two bad experiences a number of years ago, just like your friend went through and of course the sale fell through. Finally sold the horses several years later for much less and you know what? They are still going with no problems! UGH
Or better yet, how about buyers sending a deposit and the check is no good!! Then they get all upset because I called their bank to verify that the check was good first then called them about it. I got an ear full, WTF
I could go on and on...........
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| stayceem - 2016-06-22 11:38 AM
I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I would have passed, too, but ONLY because where I live you can't find a good shoer. And if you do, they aren't taking new clients. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| hotpaints - 2016-06-22 1:15 PM
stayceem - 2016-06-22 11:38 AM I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I HATE PPE.........I know they are part of selling but lets face it, a vet can find something wrong with every horse they look at. Just like your friend's horse.........Every horse COULD get navicular but that doesn't mean that they are going to.
I will never let one of mine have a PPE done with out me standing right there. I had two bad experiences a number of years ago, just like your friend went through and of course the sale fell through. Finally sold the horses several years later for much less and you know what? They are still going with no problems! UGH
Or better yet, how about buyers sending a deposit and the check is no good!! Then they get all upset because I called their bank to verify that the check was good first then called them about it. I got an ear full, WTF
I could go on and on...........
Vets are just trying to cover their A$$. My vet flat said she will not "Pass" a horse as sound during a vet check. She will look for obvious current lameness but also tell buyer all about the " COULD" as they say. Barrel horses COULD get navicular. Cutting horses COULD have hock issues etc. lol Really you need an educated BUYER AND SELLER. And a buyer that understands how vets work and legalities of it.
Personally I would find someone who is in the " Business" you trust. FOr me in CA last time I bought one I absolutely TRUST TRUST TRUST Danyelle Campbell. If I were looking for a high dollar horse I would get in touch with her and tell her what I wanted and my budget. THat way if she recommends one that fits the bill, half the work is done. Find a trainer you TRUST who sees and is around lots of horses. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | what price range are we talking about! Cause I know right now my taste does not match my check book............so I'm pouting untill I get more $$$$ or part (sell) something I have..................I think there are a lot of great rodeo horses out there and alot of great sellers..................... |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| It is hard - on both sides. I have a friend with a super nice gelding for sale - no maintenance of any kind. People came and tried him out, stayed the weekend and ran him. Horse is super nice - runs in the 1D locally. He really took care of this girl. They really liked him and wanted to try the other horse they'd already made an appt. for. Told my friend they'd likely be back though. She found out through FB two weeks later they bought the other horse - even though the other horse had been drugged when they tried. The other horse was grey and so pretty. I am still shaking my head over that one. But there are honest sellers out there - it just takes a lot of rock turning to find them! Good luck! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It all depends on how much you are willing to spend.
If you want a money earning rodeo horse sound and sane but only want to spend 5k. I would say the person is crazy |
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Regular
Posts: 93
| It took me FOREVER to find the sound part in my price range. After a very extensive vet check, bought the gelding. Now dealing with SANE issues the previous owner didn't warn me about. Its a losing battle. I'm not sure they make a horse that is SOUND and SANE. #aggravating. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | abrad12 - 2016-06-22 5:16 PM It took me FOREVER to find the sound part in my price range. After a very extensive vet check, bought the gelding. Now dealing with SANE issues the previous owner didn't warn me about. Its a losing battle. I'm not sure they make a horse that is SOUND and SANE. #aggravating.
A horse that is sound and sane that can do it's job is worth big $$$. It all starts with the beginning training that a horse receives and on down the line. QUALITY training is worth every penny! Forget bloodlines and conformation, if the horse DOES NOT RECEIVE QUALTIY TRAINING as a youngster it will have holes in their training/life!! Please remember that a horse does not forget.
Pick up all the rescues, auction horses, or cheap horses all you want but expect to have some problems. It is high time QUALTIY TRAINERS AND BREEDERS get the respect they deserve.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | I bought a horse that I did very little homework on last fall, and he has turned out to be the best one we've owned (though he's no rodeo horse) I bought him from a girl I knew from high school. We weren't close and I didn't know the horse, but I did know who she was. She did not sell horses very often, but just took on a two year old and wanted to let her old solid 3D/4D mount go, and I snatched him up for my husband. He's been absolutely perfect.. a baby sitter that will go whatever speed asked and they are starting to get in the placings lately. (husband had never raced prior to owning him)
If you can find one that you have seen compete locally or buy from someone you know or someone with a reputation to uphold that is definitely your best bet. Your match is out there! Wish you luck! |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | I agree completely ...RESEARCH!RESEARCH! RESEARCH!
Know who works with who.
As I have aged and grown in experience and knowledge it seems to me that the definitions of "sane" and "sound" are very subjective to who you talk to and how badly they would like to buy or sell a horse. In my area it also seems to apply to to the vet /seller(trainer) relationship as well(only certain cases)
If you can watch the horse locally watch it at the races in the pen out of the pen, in the warm up is a HUGE deal for me. I very rarely put one thru the pattern when I go try it as by the time I have gone to try it I have watched it enough to know what is horse and what is rider error. I like to take them and slow work them. You find out real quick if they do indeed have a solid foundatioun or huge gaps.
Also know what you will accept and what you will not and prepare for the unexpected.
In the last 8 years I have made 2 stand out purchases. Both geldings, the first oneI had known and watched for 2 yrs. He had some minor navicular changes and the seller was completely upfront with me as we run the same circuit. He was worth every penny. I sold him....which I deeply regret. The second one I also bought from a trainer who runs the same ciruit. I rode a few times before I bought him,I did see a few of the issues, but there were way more to be found. I love the horse. He is wicked fast and perhaps the most athletic thing I have ever ridden. I did however spend way more for a "finished' project than I would have liked, and it has taken a year just to get to where we can stand in the alley let alone go up it.
Next one is a completely clean slate. I have watched his sibilings, I know several people who own and run them, I spoke to them and the breeder. If there are issues this time....I will be the only one to blame.
I do believe this, the industry needs reset button as there are a boat load of over priced, so called sane and sound horses out there. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| FLITASTIC - 2016-06-22 3:49 PM
hotpaints - 2016-06-22 1:15 PM
stayceem - 2016-06-22 11:38 AM I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I HATE PPE.........I know they are part of selling but lets face it, a vet can find something wrong with every horse they look at. Just like your friend's horse.........Every horse COULD get navicular but that doesn't mean that they are going to.
I will never let one of mine have a PPE done with out me standing right there. I had two bad experiences a number of years ago, just like your friend went through and of course the sale fell through. Finally sold the horses several years later for much less and you know what? They are still going with no problems! UGH
Or better yet, how about buyers sending a deposit and the check is no good!! Then they get all upset because I called their bank to verify that the check was good first then called them about it. I got an ear full, WTF
I could go on and on...........
Vets are just trying to cover their A$$. My vet flat said she will not "Pass" a horse as sound during a vet check. She will look for obvious current lameness but also tell buyer all about the " COULD" as they say. Barrel horses COULD get navicular. Cutting horses COULD have hock issues etc. lol Really you need an educated BUYER AND SELLER. And a buyer that understands how vets work and legalities of it.
Personally I would find someone who is in the " Business" you trust. FOr me in CA last time I bought one I absolutely TRUST TRUST TRUST Danyelle Campbell. If I were looking for a high dollar horse I would get in touch with her and tell her what I wanted and my budget. THat way if she recommends one that fits the bill, half the work is done. Find a trainer you TRUST who sees and is around lots of horses.
I understand where the Vet is coming from but it is frustrating people don't do their research. My friend since then has really started hauling her, she just had too many which is why shes selling and shes been getting faster and faster. And no lameness or "navicular" to date. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 628
Location: Missouri | I guess I have been very lucky. Both mares I have purchased have been sound and are both still sound. They are sane enough for barrel horses and I can ride them daily and work cows with no issues. They don't have gate issues and I credit any issues they have had to me not riding them correctly, which has proved correct.
I agree with the research. But having just sold a horse it is CRAZY the amount of stupid people I had to deal with. I don't mind the obvious questions and will entertain anything, but I had one person ask me if they could do payments and I said I would but I required half down. They then asked how much half down was....I just figured they forgot the price... They then asked if I could send more videos, I obliged, they then said "Oh, I remember that horse, I really liked him." Excuse me? Why do you have to make it a point of remembering a horse.... They were simply going around asking everyone if they would do payments. I'm sorry, if you don't have the money right then and there, don't be shopping. Don't tell me that you have to sell a horse to look at mine, to me that is saying hey, if I win the lottery. In the year I had my horse for sale, one person came and actually tried him out to buy, and you know what, he passed the vet check and she bought him. Not once did I lie about anything he did. Even if it was once I still tell them. If it means not selling a horse then fine. I am willing to be honest to make sure my horse is going to the absolute best home. I am willing to reject a sale if I don't like the buyer.
Buyers and sellers are both to blame. Don't lie about the horse you have for sale, be honest, even on the smallest things, and as a buyer, make sure you have the money up front. Don't lie to the seller about wanting to try the horse and then never showing up. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2674
Location: Silver Lake, MN | I think we are finally seeing the decline in breeding as people are looking for younger horses, there are just not as many out there so it is driving up the cost of all horses including the finished ones. Everyone wants to find a deal, me included so people are shopping around. But I do believe you get what you pay for. Now I have a 14yo mare I have considered selling, I prefer a more free running horse. Youth safe, top of the 3D at bigger shows, if you can really hustle one you can get her into the 2D. Can work cattle, trail ride her but she has PSSM and needs to be maintained. I don't think I will even bother listing her cause I don't want to deal with people who won't do the reaseach to find out what it means to have a horse like her. Even though she is worth her weight in gold people don't want to deal with it even to have a SAFE, SANE horse. I go into this that every horse that is competative is going to need some kind of maintenance. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | We're lucky in this area the vets will tell you if the horse is suitable (in terms of soundness) for what you are buying them for. If the horse appears to require maintenance they will outline the potential costs so you as a buyer are aware of the post purchase costs.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| When my vet does a pre-purchase exam, he typically gives me a "risk on a 1-10 scale" as to whether the horse will have issues in the future. As with most performance horses, they can always find something wrong with any horse that has been and will continue competing.
When I bought my 8 year old mare, he told me she will probably need her hocks injected at some point and put her on a scale of 3 (lower side of risk). I like this method. No horse is absolutely perfect and they can typically find something, even if it's a small issue, if thorough enough. |
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Regular
Posts: 68
| It takes a lot of effort and a smart owner with money to maintain a sound minded and bodied competitive finished barre horse. To me that means when you look to buy with sound body and mind its far and few between. There are lots of good horse folks out there, but many bad. I don't know what you are shopping for but digging DEEP on the sellers and the horses they sell is critical to prevent wasting your precious time and energy. Talk to people who run in their district, find out the truth about the horse, you would be surprised what people will share with you. Make social media work for you. Good luck!
Edited by Reester 2016-06-23 10:50 AM
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Regular
Posts: 68
| One other thing, be cautious of what name people enter a horse under, especially in the associations that dont have name requirements. So, if someone who buys and sells a lot and enters 3 horses at a time, "good times" and "no times" might not ad up. |
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| stayceem - 2016-06-22 12:38 PM
I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I had the same thing happen to a horse I was selling. Nice little mare who ANYONE could ride. Vet said she possibly could be navicular. Buyer passed. A friend bought her and she has never took a bad step or had any issues with navicular. |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | spitzh - 2016-06-22 10:49 AM
I agree, finding a sane barrel horse is hard.
I have 5 and they're all sane. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| LAC - 2016-06-23 11:59 AM
stayceem - 2016-06-22 12:38 PM
I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway.
I had the same thing happen to a horse I was selling. Nice little mare who ANYONE could ride. Vet said she possibly could be navicular. Buyer passed. A friend bought her and she has never took a bad step or had any issues with navicular.
I bought one that minor changes to his front right. He was everything I was looking for, I knew his owner, knew his whole history so it did not stop me from making the deal. He has never taken a lame step and is a blast to ride :). |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| FLITASTIC - 2016-06-22 1:49 PM hotpaints - 2016-06-22 1:15 PM stayceem - 2016-06-22 11:38 AM I would be more curious to know what people's price limit is on a sane, sound, competitive barrel horse? I also think soundness is a big part. A friend of mine has a 1D/2D barrel mare who is as sweet and automatic as they come. She gets hocks injected, no issues but she just seemed to work better with them done. BUT she was pre-purchased once and the vet told the buyer, she could get navicular. No signs or changes in her navicular bone but COULD. Horse has never been sore a day in her life. But sale fell through anyway. I HATE PPE.........I know they are part of selling but lets face it, a vet can find something wrong with every horse they look at. Just like your friend's horse.........Every horse COULD get navicular but that doesn't mean that they are going to.
I will never let one of mine have a PPE done with out me standing right there. I had two bad experiences a number of years ago, just like your friend went through and of course the sale fell through. Finally sold the horses several years later for much less and you know what? They are still going with no problems! UGH
Or better yet, how about buyers sending a deposit and the check is no good!! Then they get all upset because I called their bank to verify that the check was good first then called them about it. I got an ear full, WTF
I could go on and on...........
Vets are just trying to cover their A$$. My vet flat said she will not "Pass" a horse as sound during a vet check. She will look for obvious current lameness but also tell buyer all about the " COULD" as they say. Barrel horses COULD get navicular. Cutting horses COULD have hock issues etc. lol Really you need an educated BUYER AND SELLER. And a buyer that understands how vets work and legalities of it. Personally I would find someone who is in the " Business" you trust. FOr me in CA last time I bought one I absolutely TRUST TRUST TRUST Danyelle Campbell. If I were looking for a high dollar horse I would get in touch with her and tell her what I wanted and my budget. THat way if she recommends one that fits the bill, half the work is done. Find a trainer you TRUST who sees and is around lots of horses.
To me, the cool thing about Danyelle is that she does make and SELL "winners". And I know there's others out there that do the same but, you mentioned Danyelle. I'm not gonna lie though, when I see a few other people in the industry with a high dollar horse for sale, I think to myself "if it was any good you'd be keeping it".  |
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Trials and Tribulations of horse buying