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Elite Veteran
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| I have a 14 yo mare that had a colt last year so was off for about a full year. I started getting her back in shape late this spring and she was doing fine, but started swapping leads when going to the right. She will stay on the right lead when doing circles, but going straight away she would prefer to switch to her left or sometimes switch just her front and cross fire. About the same time she also didn’t want to collect up or drive as hard with her hind end. I took her in and did a full lameness eval and both of her hocks &, her R stifle flexed fine. Her L stifle was off, first flex not too much, second flex vet rated it at 3/5. We x-rayed the joint and it was clean and had fluid in it. Per vet’s suggestion we went ahead and injected it as that was the only area showing some trouble.
Now her front feed have been fine, she wings out her left front, but with proper trimming it has never caused her any problems. The last time my shoer trimmed her I mentioned to him that her toes looked like they were toeing in a little. He agreed and said he’d work on them. Well, after that trim job and as they grew out it was obviously much worse and she was toeing in horribly. She is straight legged and it was easy to see it was due to her feet. The vet agreed and pointed me in the direction of another shoer. I had him work on her feet last week and he was able to get them straightened back out pretty well. It will take a few more months and trims to get them back to where they should be, but I think we are on the right track.
The stifle injection was 6/16 and she had her feet trimmed 6/23. I rode her for the first time yesterday and while I could tell she had better forward movement and her circles were a lot smoother, she was very tender on hard ground or rocks which is unusual for her even after having her feet trimmed, and I could feel she was dropping on her L hind – whereas before she never was dropping on one side or the other, just was somewhat reluctant in engaging her hind end and just “off”.
I called the new shoer to see if he could stick some shoes on her and hopefully get some relief there. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was body sore due to the changes in her feet, but how her L side was dropping it felt like something more than that….
Any suggestions? Am I on the right path? Would you be looking into something different?
Edited by veintiocho 2016-08-16 10:49 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Did the vet check her pelvis out? I ask because she had a foal and that might have caused her to be out in her pelvis. My daughter is a chiro for people and horses. She is specializing in pregnant women and has had to adjust some girls even during their labor. It has helped restart their labor when they slowed down. Just a shot in the dark.  | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| She is level across her hips and he checked her SI and it was fine. I had her chiro'd/massaged before I started riding her (for the same reasons you said! :)). I think after we get shoes on her I might have her done again just to rule out any soreness that might be there... | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Lameness and hoof problems are so frustrating! Keep us updated if you don't mind. I hope you find out what is going on soon! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Thank you! I think we're getting shoes on tonight so will hopefully see some improvement! | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Check in when you ride and let us know how she is doing. . . | |
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Veteran
Posts: 255
Location: Alberta Canada | If this only happens under saddle, have you checked how your saddle is fitting? Sometimes they will compensate for pain & use one side more than the other. When that happens lots of times they will be less muscled in the wither/shoulder area on one side. If its really bad it will cause the saddle to really roll down & pinch on the lower side. You may have to shim one side until you get everything even again. I have had this happen to me before so just thought I would share in case. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Well I rode her last night and she started out fine, but after about 20-30 minutes of warm up, trotting, and loping a few circles she was off again. It almost felt like she was skipping on her front end.. Because she started off fine and then got worse it's making me question my saddle fit. Prior to her having a baby it fit her great, but things may have changed since then. I'm going to try a different saddle that I think might fit her better in the shoulder area or try her bareback and she if we still have problems. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| canadiannorth - 2016-06-29 4:32 PM
If this only happens under saddle, have you checked how your saddle is fitting? Sometimes they will compensate for pain & use one side more than the other. When that happens lots of times they will be less muscled in the wither/shoulder area on one side. If its really bad it will cause the saddle to really roll down & pinch on the lower side. You may have to shim one side until you get everything even again. I have had this happen to me before so just thought I would share in case.
After last night I was questioning my saddle fit. Going to try another saddle tonight that is a little wider in the shoulder area and see how she does with it. She doesn't have any shoulder or wither atrophy and has not had any back soreness. :) | |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | As far as the hind end dropping...If she had a lot of time off. her stifle could be sticking a little due to lack of fitness. might want to keep straight lines and do hills to get her hind end in shape after you figure out the front end | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| kwanatha - 2016-06-30 11:13 AM
As far as the hind end dropping...If she had a lot of time off. her stifle could be sticking a little due to lack of fitness. might want to keep straight lines and do hills to get her hind end in shape after you figure out the front end
I've delt with sticky/dropping stifles before and this isn't the same, it's more of a sore/limp drop than a weak/sticky issue. :( | |
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | Take a video and post it | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| I did video her and can see that she is off in her L hind. Not sure if it's related to her stifle or what. Going to have her massaged and chiro'd and hopefully that is all she's needing.. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Update on my mare:
I had her chiro’d on 7/12 and she was pretty out a few places in her back, her SI was out, but not bad other than her muscles were so tight it was difficult for the chiro to really see an improvement after getting it in, so we put her on an Equi-vibe table and after 30 min the chiro adjusted her again and there was a big difference. I gave her 4 days off of riding and per chiro’s advice hand walked her and backed her up a slow incline. She didn’t have as much movement in her left hind when backing up – she would make a big move with her R and then a shorter move with her L and would drag it (did not want to pick it up and move it back) I rode her on the 4th day and she was still off/short striding on her L hind.
Took her back to chiro on 7/18 and after checking everything she started her out on the Equi-vibe for 30 minutes and adjusted her after that. She was sore in 2 spots in her back – two vertebrae on either side of one in the Lumbar area (not sure which ones exactly). Her SI was good and did not need adjusted. She ended up getting 5 days off of riding, but was able to hand walk a few times and backed her up the slow incline, which she has kept good movement and is picking her L up and moving it back the same as her R.
I rode her yesterday and while she is not at 100% yet she is better than she was last week. I’d say we’re at 80-85% soundness now. After warming up we long trotted and she started out feeling like herself, but after a bit was off on her L hind a few strides, then was back on. This went on for the whole ride. I contacted my chiro and we both agreed that I’d continue to ride her for a few more days and see if she improves or starts getting worse.
At this point I'm not sure if I'll take her back to the chiro or vet if she doesn't improve... any suggestions or advice is appreciated. :) | |
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 Saint Stacey
| I would not do any incline work on a horse with sore stifles. Incline work is the worst thing you can do for those. Try strengthening that area with what are known as rubber band exercises.
You basically start out jogging. Gradually lengthen the stride until you have extension. Sit down, gather the horse and collect the jog. Hold the collection until the horse starts wanting to lengthen because it's uncomfortable to hold the collection. Increase the stride again and keep repeating the process. A horse with sore stifles has a hard time holding collection. A vet who's wife trains high end dressage horses taught me these. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| SKM - 2016-07-25 10:04 AM
I would not do any incline work on a horse with sore stifles. Incline work is the worst thing you can do for those. Try strengthening that area with what are known as rubber band exercises.
You basically start out jogging. Gradually lengthen the stride until you have extension. Sit down, gather the horse and collect the jog. Hold the collection until the horse starts wanting to lengthen because it's uncomfortable to hold the collection. Increase the stride again and keep repeating the process. A horse with sore stifles has a hard time holding collection. A vet who's wife trains high end dressage horses taught me these.
Are you suggesting to not work on backing her up the slope either? The pastures I've been riding her in are flat so I will continue to stay away from any hills and try the exercise you posted. | |
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Saint Stacey
| veintiocho - 2016-07-25 9:13 AM
SKM - 2016-07-25 10:04 AM
I would not do any incline work on a horse with sore stifles. Incline work is the worst thing you can do for those. Try strengthening that area with what are known as rubber band exercises.
You basically start out jogging. Gradually lengthen the stride until you have extension. Sit down, gather the horse and collect the jog. Hold the collection until the horse starts wanting to lengthen because it's uncomfortable to hold the collection. Increase the stride again and keep repeating the process. A horse with sore stifles has a hard time holding collection. A vet who's wife trains high end dressage horses taught me these.
Are you suggesting to not work on backing her up the slope either? The pastures I've been riding her in are flat so I will continue to stay away from any hills and try the exercise you posted.
I wouldn't back her up an incline. Especially if she can't do it right. To me that says you are just further stressing the problem and she's compensating. Horses aren't really made to go backwards for extended lengths. There's a great article floating around Facebook about strengthening the hind end. Just glanced at it but it was more about cavalette type work. They had a cone with a pole running from the ground to the top of the cone and they'd do circles around the various heights from low to high. Might try to find it and see if it could help you. The picture with it was black legs, an orange one and pole. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| SKM - 2016-07-25 11:56 AM
veintiocho - 2016-07-25 9:13 AM
SKM - 2016-07-25 10:04 AM
I would not do any incline work on a horse with sore stifles. Incline work is the worst thing you can do for those. Try strengthening that area with what are known as rubber band exercises.
You basically start out jogging. Gradually lengthen the stride until you have extension. Sit down, gather the horse and collect the jog. Hold the collection until the horse starts wanting to lengthen because it's uncomfortable to hold the collection. Increase the stride again and keep repeating the process. A horse with sore stifles has a hard time holding collection. A vet who's wife trains high end dressage horses taught me these.
Are you suggesting to not work on backing her up the slope either? The pastures I've been riding her in are flat so I will continue to stay away from any hills and try the exercise you posted.
I wouldn't back her up an incline. Especially if she can't do it right. To me that says you are just further stressing the problem and she's compensating. Horses aren't really made to go backwards for extended lengths. There's a great article floating around Facebook about strengthening the hind end. Just glanced at it but it was more about cavalette type work. They had a cone with a pole running from the ground to the top of the cone and they'd do circles around the various heights from low to high. Might try to find it and see if it could help you. The picture with it was black legs, an orange one and pole.
Thanks. I will look for that article as well. The idea behind backing her up was to get her to use full range of motion after the chiro and equi-vibe got her loosened up/un-kinked. She will back up correctly now.
I honestly don’t know if we are dealing with stifle pain or tight/sore muscles. The first time the vet flexed her she was sound – maybe a hair off, and the second time he flexed her (same visit) she was off (he rated @ 3 out of 5), but maybe that was from the muscle soreness and being out and held up in the flexed position? The injection in her stifle did nothing and she continued to get worse until she was chiro’d.
She doesn't feel loose and has never dropped down like one does with loose stifles.
Back pain of course makes me think of saddle fit, but my saddle fits her very well, leaves eaven sweat marks and doesn't move a hair on her. Now I did notice last night after taking my saddle off that the sweat was heavier in the area on her back that was sore at the last chiro visit. I thought that was kind of unusual, but she didn't flinch when I palpated the area on either side so maybe it's nothing. I'll watch again for it tonight.
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 Veteran
Posts: 239
| I'm dealing with a similar issue right now with my mare. As far as we can tell it is a sore lumbar area. Short strided on LH and will cross fire. Did hocks in April (I do them once a year, she has a small amount of DJD but not sore). Did not flex sore on any hind joints. Chiro made it better but not completely (out in pelvis). I have been massaging her gracilis muscles as they feel tight...also I have been needling her (acupuncture) and that helps as well. However, she is still not 100%. Therefore, we (myself and chiro) figure probably a back issue, and mostly because I have been riding her wrong (my bad!) Saddle fits fine, but what I have been doing is allowing her to be heavy on the forehand for too long. This mare likes to lope with her head down and withers up however she will hang her hocks way out behind her. 5 years of loping her like that and she has a crappy back. So I am just trying to baby her through our association finals next month.
Long story, but I wanted to share an exercise I have been doing. She doesn't pick up her back feet very well while backing (no stride) so I have been backing her in a figure 8. This makes them not only pick up the back foot more, but because they have to cross it over, it helps to work muscles that they don't normally work, so it will help build up a little more strength in their hind end. I have just started doing it but 3 days in she is already improving her stride.
Good luck.....I totally feel your pain.....keep us updated!!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| 2H~QH - 2016-07-25 1:34 PM
I'm dealing with a similar issue right now with my mare. As far as we can tell it is a sore lumbar area. Short strided on LH and will cross fire. Did hocks in April (I do them once a year, she has a small amount of DJD but not sore). Did not flex sore on any hind joints. Chiro made it better but not completely (out in pelvis). I have been massaging her gracilis muscles as they feel tight...also I have been needling her (acupuncture) and that helps as well. However, she is still not 100%. Therefore, we (myself and chiro) figure probably a back issue, and mostly because I have been riding her wrong (my bad!) Saddle fits fine, but what I have been doing is allowing her to be heavy on the forehand for too long. This mare likes to lope with her head down and withers up however she will hang her hocks way out behind her. 5 years of loping her like that and she has a crappy back. So I am just trying to baby her through our association finals next month.
Long story, but I wanted to share an exercise I have been doing. She doesn't pick up her back feet very well while backing (no stride) so I have been backing her in a figure 8. This makes them not only pick up the back foot more, but because they have to cross it over, it helps to work muscles that they don't normally work, so it will help build up a little more strength in their hind end. I have just started doing it but 3 days in she is already improving her stride.
Good luck.....I totally feel your pain.....keep us updated!!
That is interesting. She started cross firing on her R lead only first part of June and not wanting to collect up, which is what started us on this journey... | |
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Veteran
Posts: 239
| veintiocho - 2016-07-25 1:29 PM 2H~QH - 2016-07-25 1:34 PM I'm dealing with a similar issue right now with my mare. As far as we can tell it is a sore lumbar area. Short strided on LH and will cross fire. Did hocks in April (I do them once a year, she has a small amount of DJD but not sore). Did not flex sore on any hind joints. Chiro made it better but not completely (out in pelvis). I have been massaging her gracilis muscles as they feel tight...also I have been needling her (acupuncture) and that helps as well. However, she is still not 100%. Therefore, we (myself and chiro) figure probably a back issue, and mostly because I have been riding her wrong (my bad!) Saddle fits fine, but what I have been doing is allowing her to be heavy on the forehand for too long. This mare likes to lope with her head down and withers up however she will hang her hocks way out behind her. 5 years of loping her like that and she has a crappy back. So I am just trying to baby her through our association finals next month.
Long story, but I wanted to share an exercise I have been doing. She doesn't pick up her back feet very well while backing (no stride) so I have been backing her in a figure 8. This makes them not only pick up the back foot more, but because they have to cross it over, it helps to work muscles that they don't normally work, so it will help build up a little more strength in their hind end. I have just started doing it but 3 days in she is already improving her stride.
Good luck.....I totally feel your pain.....keep us updated!!
That is interesting. She started cross firing on her R lead only first part of June and not wanting to collect up, which is what started us on this journey...
Mine was exactly the same. Mid June - ran her pretty hard and the next day she started humping up/crossfiring. Been searching for the cause ever since.
I read somewhere (don't remember where....vet school was a long time ago lol) that most horses will get sore backs on the RH because they are more "left handed" i.e. they will naturally prefer travelling left, pick up left lead easier, etc so they are dumping more on the LF and to balance out, end up using the RH a lot more so show soreness there. Mine has always been smoother loping to the right and so the left hind unsoundness makes sense for her.
It's extremely frustrating!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Yes it is very frustrating! Have you tried muscle relaxers or mesotherapy? | |
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Veteran
Posts: 239
| veintiocho - 2016-07-25 2:07 PM Yes it is very frustrating! Have you tried muscle relaxers or mesotherapy?
I haven't tried either, mainly because I haven't truly "diagnosed" anything yet. I have ruled almost everything out. But I think before I do more than what I am (massage chiro and acupuncture) I will have to bite the bullet and take her to a diagnostic specialist as I am no longer in practice, I don't have access to any fun imaging tools anymore. I just want to make sure I'm not dealing with any vertebral issues.
And honestly.... even if it is diagnosed as just muscle, I think I will just lay her off for a time then really work on building her back strength up before I start down the path of injections etc. Just me.
Keep me in the loop, I'd be interested to see what helps your horse :)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| 2H~QH - 2016-07-25 3:22 PM
veintiocho - 2016-07-25 2:07 PM Yes it is very frustrating! Have you tried muscle relaxers or mesotherapy?
I haven't tried either, mainly because I haven't truly "diagnosed" anything yet. I have ruled almost everything out. But I think before I do more than what I am (massage chiro and acupuncture) I will have to bite the bullet and take her to a diagnostic specialist as I am no longer in practice, I don't have access to any fun imaging tools anymore. I just want to make sure I'm not dealing with any vertebral issues.
And honestly.... even if it is diagnosed as just muscle, I think I will just lay her off for a time then really work on building her back strength up before I start down the path of injections etc. Just me.
Keep me in the loop, I'd be interested to see what helps your horse :)
I think if she doesn't improve this week I will take her back to the vet so we can see what else may be going on, like you said, I don't want to be dealing with any underlying vertebrae issues.
Quite a while ago I had a gelding who's back was extremely sore due to a poor fitting saddle. Chiro and time off didn't help so the vet had me try muscle relaxers, which didn't work either. As a last resort we did mesotherapy, which at that time my vet had just come back from CA and had learned about it there and asked if we could do it as an experiment. He was a new horse after that.  | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| Check for EPM. I know everyone says to do it and it sounds like beating a dead horse on the issue, but I went ahead with one and they had epm! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| epoh - 2016-07-26 9:40 AM
Check for EPM. I know everyone says to do it and it sounds like beating a dead horse on the issue, but I went ahead with one and they had epm!
I am up north so I don't think that is what we're dealing with. Not saying it's impossible, but at this point I don't think that's what it is. Thanks for the input tho :) | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore.
Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related?
Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted! | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| What do you feed? This horse sounds like a possible PSSM candidate. Had a mare that was fine when I bought her as a 4 yr old but started having various lameness issues after I had her awhile. Had had her for 5 years before she tied up. Wasn't a typical tying up and her SGOT was not really elevated but vet suggested that she had PSSM and to change feed. SO I put her on the low carb, high fat diet and the change was pretty impressive. This mare always had incredible muscle tone, way beyond tight.
The change with the diet illuminated past issues. Always had to use a very soft brush or she would flinch, especially across the back, she was VERY resistant to giving her chin, much improved after a couple of weeks on the new diet. These are just a couple of examples. I never had her tested, just managed her diet and switched all of my horses to it, minus the increased fat. They all look fabulous and founder from feed is no longer a worry.
Not saying that PSSM is a definitive cause of your horse's ongoing mysterious lameness but I would sure give it a hard look and try a feed change. Magnesium is one of the things many PSSM owners swear by.
Best of luck to you, this can be SO frustrating! | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| rodeoveteran - 2016-08-02 11:12 AM
What do you feed? This horse sounds like a possible PSSM candidate. Had a mare that was fine when I bought her as a 4 yr old but started having various lameness issues after I had her awhile. Had had her for 5 years before she tied up. Wasn't a typical tying up and her SGOT was not really elevated but vet suggested that she had PSSM and to change feed. SO I put her on the low carb, high fat diet and the change was pretty impressive. This mare always had incredible muscle tone, way beyond tight.
The change with the diet illuminated past issues. Always had to use a very soft brush or she would flinch, especially across the back, she was VERY resistant to giving her chin, much improved after a couple of weeks on the new diet. These are just a couple of examples. I never had her tested, just managed her diet and switched all of my horses to it, minus the increased fat. They all look fabulous and founder from feed is no longer a worry.
Not saying that PSSM is a definitive cause of your horse's ongoing mysterious lameness but I would sure give it a hard look and try a feed change. Magnesium is one of the things many PSSM owners swear by.
Best of luck to you, this can be SO frustrating!
What are you feeding specifically? I have 2 mares that have some of the symptoms. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Right now she is on some pasture, prairie grass hay, and getting 1 cup whole oats to mix the magnesium pellets in. I havent turned her out full time on pasture with the other horses because they jack around and constantly play fight.. I had a horse with PSSM and she doesn't feel tight, grouchy, and unwilling to move like the other mare did.. Not totally disregarding it, but not really feeling like it's going that way at this point. Thank you :) | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related?
Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted!
Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | veintiocho - 2016-08-02 12:29 PM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related? Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted! Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine.
It would palpate as lumbar pain. However, not all horses with kidney issues will show symptoms of lumbar pain. Other symptoms that could indicate kidneys aside from increased or decreased urination are increased thirst, dull hair coat, decreased endurance, darkened urine, anorexic, edema...the more advanced kidney disease is, the more symptoms will show. But there are soooo many things that could cause a positive pain response in that area that I would be skeptical of it being the kidneys without any other symptoms. But definitely talk it over with your vet, only he or she can rule in or out potential issues. I didn't read all the posts so sorry if this is a repeat, but I'd also have the vet look into ovarian issues if you haven't had that checked. | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I started out with GroStrong Ultra Fiber with added vegetable oil for additional fats and first cutting alfalfa hay. Nothing from oats or corn. Some PSSM horses cannot handle the sugars in grass.
Each horse may display different symptoms and respond differently to different feed programs.
I am currently feeding Tribute Calm and EZ GC and add some oil to the mare I am currently competing on. I no longer own the mare I suspected of PSSM. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 12:47 PM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 12:29 PM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related? Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted! Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine.
Yes, it’s one thing that I will bring up to the vet. The peeing while being rode is the only sign – everything else is normal, so it could totally be just a coincidence.
She does have a vertebrae in the area that she is sore that is raised or has a bump. Now, when I first noticed it I asked my vet about it and he looked at it and said it didn’t look like anything to worry about and she was not sore at the time. I asked the chiro about it as well, because she was sore/out on each vertebrae on either side of the raised one and the chiro said some vertebrae are larger than others and wasn’t concerned about it because she had good movement through it and on either side. But the bump has not always been there. I’ve had this mare since a yearling and the bump probably appeared about two years ago, but she was never off until this June. It has always bothered me, so to put my mind at rest I’ll ask to have it Xrayed at the appointment.
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| veintiocho - 2016-08-02 2:57 PM
Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 12:47 PM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 12:29 PM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related? Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted! Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine.
Yes, it’s one thing that I will bring up to the vet. The peeing while being rode is the only sign – everything else is normal, so it could totally be just a coincidence.
She does have a vertebrae in the area that she is sore that is raised or has a bump. Now, when I first noticed it I asked my vet about it and he looked at it and said it didn’t look like anything to worry about and she was not sore at the time. I asked the chiro about it as well, because she was sore/out on each vertebrae on either side of the raised one and the chiro said some vertebrae are larger than others and wasn’t concerned about it because she had good movement through it and on either side. But the bump has not always been there. I’ve had this mare since a yearling and the bump probably appeared about two years ago, but she was never off until this June. It has always bothered me, so to put my mind at rest I’ll ask to have it Xrayed at the appointment.
I was going to have my colt's back Xrayed due to an ongoing back issue in the thoracic/lumbar junction. I can get him adjusted and he will be fine for a day or two but shortly will be short stepping on one hind leg and will freeze up if you try to ride him.
This is what I found out. They can only ray the top of the spinous process, they cannot image the actual vertebrae due to the immense muscle tissue in the back. Which may or may not tell you if they have kissing spine.....that its about it. It was suggested that we do a body scan, which will tell us where the inflammation and pain are located. Ummmmm, thoracic/lumbar junction Einstein. Sigh
Short of a full CT scan or MRI, there is no way to see what is going on in the vertebrae from what I have been told by several vet clinics and State. | |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | veintiocho - 2016-08-02 11:29 AM
Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related?
Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted!
Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine.
Maybe Run N Rate will weigh in on the kidney question since she (unfortunately) has tons of experience in that area | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| rodeoveteran - 2016-08-02 4:11 PM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 2:57 PM
Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 12:47 PM
veintiocho - 2016-08-02 12:29 PM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2016-08-02 10:58 AM veintiocho - 2016-08-02 10:57 AM Update- after a few rides last week she felt great, didn't take a short step and I could really feel her reaching up under with that L hind. I was doing a lot of collection exercises as suggested by SKM and going over ground poles. I also started feeding her magnesium and rubbing her back with linamint after every ride and thought we were headed in the right direction. I rode her Friday and she spooked a couple of times pretty hard, but never took a bad step. I rode her again on Sunday and she was back to short stepping and when I palpated her back she was sore. I made an appointment with my vet, but he is on vacation next week and booked this week so won't be able to get her in until 8/15. I really want to figure out what is making her back/stifle sore. Could sore kidneys show up as back pain? She has stopped to pee about 5-10 min into our ride every time, which she usually doesn't. Not sure if I'm just riding during her usual pee time or if it's related? Yep, sore kidneys could show as back pain. Glad you got an appointment for the following week! Best wishes for a good outcome and keep us posted! Where exactly would it show pain? Right now when I palpated her back she flinches in her lumbar area right along the spine.
Yes, it’s one thing that I will bring up to the vet. The peeing while being rode is the only sign – everything else is normal, so it could totally be just a coincidence.
She does have a vertebrae in the area that she is sore that is raised or has a bump. Now, when I first noticed it I asked my vet about it and he looked at it and said it didn’t look like anything to worry about and she was not sore at the time. I asked the chiro about it as well, because she was sore/out on each vertebrae on either side of the raised one and the chiro said some vertebrae are larger than others and wasn’t concerned about it because she had good movement through it and on either side. But the bump has not always been there. I’ve had this mare since a yearling and the bump probably appeared about two years ago, but she was never off until this June. It has always bothered me, so to put my mind at rest I’ll ask to have it Xrayed at the appointment.
I was going to have my colt's back Xrayed due to an ongoing back issue in the thoracic/lumbar junction. I can get him adjusted and he will be fine for a day or two but shortly will be short stepping on one hind leg and will freeze up if you try to ride him.
This is what I found out. They can only ray the top of the spinous process, they cannot image the actual vertebrae due to the immense muscle tissue in the back. Which may or may not tell you if they have kissing spine.....that its about it. It was suggested that we do a body scan, which will tell us where the inflammation and pain are located. Ummmmm, thoracic/lumbar junction Einstein. Sigh
Short of a full CT scan or MRI, there is no way to see what is going on in the vertebrae from what I have been told by several vet clinics and State.
Oh darn. Not what I was hoping, but at least I'll know what to expect. Thank you :) | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Well I have some solid answers to the lameness that has been plaguing this mare! I took her back to the vet yesterday and explained what I had done since we were last there. While examining her again he vet found slight swelling & soreness around the lower suspensory branches on her L hind and after ultra-sounding we were able to see a tear in the suspensory and damage to the sesamoid bone. X-rayed it to see what kind of damage was done to the bone and it looked minimal and like it was healing. We started shockwave treatment and will go back for 2-3 more. While she was there I had them x-ray the small bump in her back to put my mind at rest and found that she in fact does have two vertebra that are narrowed and can pinch together. At this point they are only pinching when she makes sharp turns or fast moves. Which would explain her bucking earlier this year after spooking or tripping.
Since she is on stall rest now I did not go for an injection, but will do a lot of PT & stretching to work her abdominal & back muscles and strengthen those areas. When I take her back to get cleared for riding we will x-ray again and see where those vertebra are and if we need to inject. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Thank you for the update and hope everything goes well. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Thank you for sharing!! Very insightful. | |
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Good Update! Long Lameness Post