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Elite Veteran
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Location: California | I had a random thought and am curious as to what everyone prefers. When starting a horse on barrel and you get to the loping point; do you make them be on the correct lead in between second and third barrel or do you let them figure it out as you go?
I personally train so they are on the correct lead. Just how I was taught.
*ETA the first option should say between barrels and not just 2nd and third. Lol.*
Edited by Serenity06 2016-07-17 12:01 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
  
| Every time you change leads you lose time. Also if you are not on the correct lead the horse will not be set up for a really good turn.
I might add that this is a very important part of basic training. It should be natural for the finished horse. That being said, a finished horse running to the barrel on the wrong lead is an indication of a soundness problem.
Edited by streakysox 2016-07-17 11:50 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Serenity06 - 2016-07-17 11:36 AM I had a random thought and am curious as to what everyone prefers. When starting a horse on barrel and you get to the loping point; do you make them be on the correct lead in between second and third barrel or do you let them figure it out as you go? I personally train so they are on the correct lead. Just how I was taught.
I believe teaching the correct lead in between the barrels is very inportant. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I know many horses that don't switch in between 1st and 2nd until right before they turn 2nd barrel. Just made me curious. :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 1302
Location: California | When slow loping and first starting out I am very picky about my horses picking up and staying on the correct lead. With that being said, when I get to that point where I start pushing them and letting them find their speed and feet I sometimes don't pick too much if they swap leads a little bit inbetween. I am a perfectionist sometimes to the point that both my horses and I can get frustrated so I really try to not nit-pick and kind of let them figure some things out at a certain point. |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | I'm kind of the opposite. I teach correct leads on the flat, and I teach the correct lead headed to the first barrel, but I let my horse figure it out himself when it comes to switching between first and second. If it becomes an issue, where they are diving the second barrel because they can't get switched, then I'll work on it. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 288
| I think it depends on the horse as well. My daughters horse, you leave alone and don't pick at her about it. A couple times of loping the pattern and she's got it. Pick at her, and she gets wringy and prissy.
My mare is the opposite. She has started loping the barrels a couple of weeks ago, and I have to set her up and put her in the correct lead. She will get it, but needs a little more support now in the beginning. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| As soon as a young horse gets put on the barrels they should be taught to change leads from one to two right AWAY! Something Ed Wright taught me...cone drills are good to work on this, saves you time on the clock having them come out of the turn and switch right away! |
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Veteran
Posts: 288
| cheeka77 - 2016-07-17 9:47 PM
As soon as a young horse gets put on the barrels they should be taught to change leads from one to two right AWAY! Something Ed Wright taught me...cone drills are good to work on this, saves you time on the clock having them come out of the turn and switch right away!
That does make sense. Then not so much happening at the 2nd barrel and all they have to focus on is turning. And less likely to duck in because of the lead change at #2 |
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| If you have done your basic training correctly and taught a young horse to hold the correct lead in large to small circles.
Then you start your figure 8's and get them smooth doing flying lead changes ... some bloodlines are natural flying lead changers ... once they are smooth flying lead changers doing clock and counter clock figure 8's ...
Then you don't care which lead they are in running to 2nd and 3rd they will make their switch during the rate ....... but it is the rider's responsibility to start to 1st barrel in correct lead and make your 1/4 turn to the 1st 30-40 ft out when coming into the 1st barrel .. to set your horse up to make a normal 360* turn on the 1st barrel ...
Work on your side passes left and right and two tracking down the arena left and right and then work on you turnarounds (no rollbacks) to make their turns sharp, tight and full of energy leaving ... coupled with flying lead changes ... you should have a smooth fast ride ..
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 Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
| cheeka77 - 2016-07-17 10:47 PM As soon as a young horse gets put on the barrels they should be taught to change leads from one to two right AWAY! Something Ed Wright taught me...cone drills are good to work on this, saves you time on the clock having them come out of the turn and switch right away!
Can you explain the drill to help with this? I just got a horse that's loping the pattern but hard to get that switch between 1 & 2. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| When we start loping, I teach them to break down and switch right after I finish the 1st barrel. They should stay in that lead the rest of the run. If at anytime they switch while still loping I break them down and we pick up the correct lead. If you do that when you start out loping, they should learn it and not have to worry about it when they begin speeding up. Yes, leads are one of the most important simple things. To me, they cant properly learn how to collect up for the turn if they are in the wrong lead. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 158
| I always ENCOURAGE horses to pick up the correct lead right away after leaving the first barrel, but that being said some horses have their "spots" that they like to change leads and I don't like to nit pick, only time it really becomes an issue for me is if they are running all the way up into the second barrel on the opposite lead and then dropping in to the turn as they finally change leads. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Thank you everyone for all the insight! I know everyone has certain ways they do things and I love hearing their why! |
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 Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | I really only care about having the correct lead going into the first barrel. After that, I let my horses handle themselves. |
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 Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | When starting a horse on barrels, I will teach them to switch leads at about the midpoint between 1st & 2nd & ask them to maintain the correct lead between 2nd & 3rd. Once they are starting to run at speed I don't fuss with them, unless the try to turn on the wrong lead. Generally each horse will work out a sweet spot to get on the correct lead before they need to turn, and it will vary according to the individual's speed, stride length & athleticism. Another thing many people don't know is that horses actually have the capability for 2 gallop gaits; the "normal" or transverse gallop, and the rotary gallop. The rotary gallop is essentially a crossfire at the gallop, and it's the gait that cheetahs & other predators use naturally. It is a faster, more powerful gait than the transverse gallop, but horses can (and really only need to) maintain it for a few strides because it is far more fatiguing than the normal gallop. The easiest place to watch this gait in action is at the starting gate. Most fast, hard breaking horses are starting the race in a rotary gallop & then switching over to a transverse gallop within 10-20 strides. This means faster acceleration than a horse breaking in a normal gallop. I've also noticed horses that really power out of a barrel turn will use the rotary gallop for a few strides & then set up for the next turn. I don't notice it as much leaving the 1st barrel, but see it fairly often leaving the 2nd & 3rd. Your average person might see that & think "Dang, that horse can't hold a lead, probably need to go back to some basics" when the horse may actually be executing a rather advanced gait/maneuver that helps it get across the pen faster than the competition. |
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Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | I'm on my phone, so not sure if this link will be live or not. But this slow mo video shows the rotary gallop in action. There's a few clips in the vid, but keep an eye on the 7 horse starting at 20 seconds. There are other horses using it at well, but the lighting & positioning make the 7 horse stand out more. https://youtu.be/3NPGqr6olrk |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Whinny19 - 2016-07-19 11:10 AM When starting a horse on barrels, I will teach them to switch leads at about the midpoint between 1st & 2nd & ask them to maintain the correct lead between 2nd & 3rd. Once they are starting to run at speed I don't fuss with them, unless the try to turn on the wrong lead. Generally each horse will work out a sweet spot to get on the correct lead before they need to turn, and it will vary according to the individual's speed, stride length & athleticism. Another thing many people don't know is that horses actually have the capability for 2 gallop gaits; the "normal" or transverse gallop, and the rotary gallop. The rotary gallop is essentially a crossfire at the gallop, and it's the gait that cheetahs & other predators use naturally. It is a faster, more powerful gait than the transverse gallop, but horses can (and really only need to) maintain it for a few strides because it is far more fatiguing than the normal gallop. The easiest place to watch this gait in action is at the starting gate. Most fast, hard breaking horses are starting the race in a rotary gallop & then switching over to a transverse gallop within 10-20 strides. This means faster acceleration than a horse breaking in a normal gallop. I've also noticed horses that really power out of a barrel turn will use the rotary gallop for a few strides & then set up for the next turn. I don't notice it as much leaving the 1st barrel, but see it fairly often leaving the 2nd & 3rd. Your average person might see that & think "Dang, that horse can't hold a lead, probably need to go back to some basics" when the horse may actually be executing a rather advanced gait/maneuver that helps it get across the pen faster than the competition.
This is very interesting. Never knew this. |
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Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | I didn't know anything about the rotary gallop either until I started studying equine kinesiology & physiology. Very few people are actually aware of it. This slow motion video of Kristy Peterson & Bozo is a good example of the rotary gallop in the barrel pen. Left lead behind, right lead in front until they hit the green banner heading to first. Left lead behind, right lead in front for the first 3 strides coming out of 1st. Right lead behind, left lead in front for the first 5 strides leaving 2nd. Right lead behind, left lead in front pretty much the whole way home (I counted about 8 strides). https://youtu.be/VptQDwQIRJo
Edited by Whinny19 2016-07-20 7:57 AM
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Whinny19 - 2016-07-19 6:33 PM I didn't know anything about the rotary gallop either until I started studying equine kinesiology & physiology. Very few people are actually aware of it. This slow motion video of Kristy Peterson & Bozo is a good example of the rotary gallop in the barrel pen. Left lead behind, right lead in front until they hit the green banner heading to first. Left lead behind, right lead in front for the first 3 strides coming out of 1st. Right lead behind, left lead in front for the first 5 strides leaving 2nd. Right lead behind, left lead in front pretty much the whole way home (I counted about 8 strides). https://youtu.be/VptQDwQIRJo
This is FASCINATING to me because my gray horse will crossfire part of the time. I had been wondering if something was sore, but he's been vetted, had his normal yearly maintenance done, shoes reset and a massage/bodywork session in the last month. If that is a faster gait, then it makes sense that he uses it part of the time because he's been just flat outrunning people between barrels. I think you can see him use this rotary gallop a few times during Tuesday's run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_r3cEm3CY8
I train all my own barrel horses and am not all that picky about leads once they are loping the pattern. Starting out, I'll break them down and make sure we take the correct lead going to first and second, but once they can lope through and change on their own before each turn, I let them find their own sweet spot. |
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Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | Sure looks like it to me, rodeowithjoker. He was on his left lead behind & right lead in front for the first few strides leaving 1st; right lead behind, left in front for a couple strides (when his hindquarters come back into frame) leaving 2nd; right lead behind, left in front on the way home. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| wickedstepmother - 2016-07-18 12:06 AM cheeka77 - 2016-07-17 9:47 PM As soon as a young horse gets put on the barrels they should be taught to change leads from one to two right AWAY! Something Ed Wright taught me...cone drills are good to work on this, saves you time on the clock having them come out of the turn and switch right away! That does make sense. Then not so much happening at the 2nd barrel and all they have to focus on is turning. And less likely to duck in because of the lead change at #2
Sorry just saw this :) Ill draw a picture and try and post! He would put a cone about 4/5 feet (also depends on how big your horse is) away from the first barrel and a little "up" towards the third barrel. Then practice loping a figure 8 between the two a bunch of times and make sure your horse stays engaged and doesn't break down into a trot. You may have to start with it farther away but it will teach them that after coming in they should switch right away :)
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 drill.PNG (18KB - 199 downloads)
drill.PNG (18KB - 199 downloads)
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