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Expert
Posts: 1477
  
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I've had this horse for a little over a year and he's still not clocking with me. Now some back ground on the horse. When he was younger he was futuritied on by Brett Monroe and did pretty well. He also did pretty well in the rodeo arena. Fast forward several years and he got hurt really bad. He was tied to his previous owners trailer and a dog spooked him and he some how ended up under the trailer and got cut up really really bad. He had a lot of damage to his front left leg. He was in a stall for right at a year. Then owner quit riding and turned him out. He was turned out for almost 5 years when I got him. I got him legged up and was making decent runs on him but not like I expected even though I wasn't(and still aren't) 100% sure what to expect. Anyway an older and well know trainers horse got hurt right before a 3 day show so I offered him to her and she ran him for that show and convinced me to change bits. When I got him I was going back and forth between running him in a S hack and a Jim Warner hack and riding him during the week in a twisted wire o ring. She talked me into putting him in a combo bit. I just got to thinking tonight. I've been to vets and nothing's wrong with him. He's 100% sound. I've done all the pre race supplements. Ivs tried pushing every step of the way and not pushing him at all. I've tried anything and everything that's been suggested and still doesn't clock. Could less really be more when it come to bits? Can a detail that small be my whole problem? I know all I can do is try it but I don't have another barrel race for several weeks.
ETA... When I say doesn't clock I mean middle to bottom of the 4D with the occasional top of the 4D run.
Edited by TessBelle 2016-07-20 2:36 AM
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 Horsey Gene Carrier
Posts: 1888
Location: LaBelle, Florida | Depends on how sensitive the horse is.
All you can do is experiment. Video your runs and watch to see what happens.
I don't even have any shanked bits or hacks anymore, ride in smooth mouth snaffle or med twist wire snaffel.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Why would you put all that stuff on a horse that's loping? |
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | classicpotatochip - 2016-07-20 7:48 AM Why would you put all that stuff on a horse that's loping?
What are you referring to as "all that stuff?" Are you talking about the supplements or bits?
OP: Do you have a video of one of your runs on this horse? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Sometimes horses that have been turned out for that many years just don't come back and run like they did. The only thing I can suggest is look at his feed program/nutrition. Does he need more energy, were the previous owners giving him anything? |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | CE's wrapn3 - 2016-07-20 8:35 AM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-20 7:48 AM Why would you put all that stuff on a horse that's loping?
What are you referring to as "all that stuff?" Are you talking about the supplements or bits?
OP: Do you have a video of one of your runs on this horse?
I do. Is there a way to post them? |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | rodeomom3 - 2016-07-20 8:48 AM
Sometimes horses that have been turned out for that many years just don't come back and run like they did. The only thing I can suggest is look at his feed program/nutrition. Does he need more energy, were the previous owners giving him anything?
Only thing she had him on that I don't is Winstrol? I have him on RedCell and alfalfa like she did. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | iron may be your problem. I am learning all this as we speak too much iron can take on symptoms of not enough iron. My soil has a lot of iron in it and I cannot feed anything with iron in it! You will be surprise how much stuff has iron in it. from the soil to the feed to supplements. too much iron will make one not have energy! |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | How did he do with this other person/trainer and why did they suggest using more bit? |
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I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | TessBelle - 2016-07-20 8:51 AM
CE's wrapn3 - 2016-07-20 8:35 AM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-20 7:48 AM Why would you put all that stuff on a horse that's loping?
What are you referring to as "all that stuff?" Are you talking about the supplements or bits?
OP: Do you have a video of one of your runs on this horse?
I do. Is there a way to post them?
Do you have them uploaded on YouTube or on Facebook? You can attach the link if they're on there. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Southtxponygirl - 2016-07-20 9:41 AM
How did he do with this other person/trainer and why did they suggest using more bit?
I don't remember how she did but the reason for the bit change was because she said he was too stiff with the hacks |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | TessBelle - 2016-07-20 10:22 AM Southtxponygirl - 2016-07-20 9:41 AM How did he do with this other person/trainer and why did they suggest using more bit? I don't remember how she did but the reason for the bit change was because she said he was too stiff with the hacks
This one is the Molly Powell {the rookie}
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-07-20 10:44 AM
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| CE's wrapn3 - 2016-07-20 8:35 AM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-20 7:48 AM Why would you put all that stuff on a horse that's loping?
What are you referring to as "all that stuff?" Are you talking about the supplements or bits?
OP: Do you have a video of one of your runs on this horse?
By that I mean all of it. Bits, supplements, etc. I see people trying too hard all the time. Taking it back to basics with good fitness, good hay, a great farrier and great chiropractor is always a good idea.
Spending time working on timing, horse position in the pattern, weight distribution throughout the run (body positioning).
As far as bits, a simple shank or gag or snaffle is usually plenty bit for a horse just cruising around. When I'm trying to open a horse up and really run, I don't want anything on them that will grab them.
Maybe he just doesn't want to run barrels? |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Have you been breezing this horse to let it know it's ok to run? |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| I have one in a similar situation. Bred to be a bang up barrel horse, far as we can tell pattern very well when we was young and then he got sold as a rope horse and spent the next 6 or 7 years doing that.
He's ironically won me a lot of money this summer cruising in the 4d while my little horse keeps finding cracks to fall in.
He has a pile of speed we just can't figure out how to turn it on a little bit. Either you're cruising or youre flying past them, we can't find a happy medium.
However roping off him is similar, he will high lope or fly past.
We have an appt at the vet next week. EPM is my sneaking suspicion after dealing with it on another horse (we think that he's substituting momentum for balance at higher speeds, combined with an unimpressive topline and some unexplained stumbling), but I think he may also be sore somewhere which is making it tough for him to really work. Either way I'm not going to sleep well until he has a clean bill of health.
I am also taking him to a clinic next month. He's different than another other horse I've run/trained and we need a professional set of eyes on th ground to help us dial it in I think. If you can find someone to ride with in your area, they may be more helpful than we can be online. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | roxieannie - 2016-07-20 12:02 PM
Have you been breezing this horse to let it know it's ok to run?
I have and we've "raced" him with my other horses. The speed is there and he out runs everything else on a straight sprint just not in the arena |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I'm working on trying to get a couple videos on YouTube |
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Regular
Posts: 62
| You say you ride him in a twisted O ring during the week, why not run in that? If he works good in it why change? OR if you feel you need more than that you could always go to something similar. Someone suggested the Molly Powell Rookie bit and that is a favorite of mine. :) |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I am a big believer that you let the horse decide what they want to run in. I do think a lot of horses get stiff in hacks and I find very few horses that I like running in them. So I would experiment and see what he enjoys. I started my gelding in a snaffle and then we moved him into a 0 ring combo and then back down to a Charmayne James Ryan then to a wonder bit and now he is in a Cervi. He is a horse who likes to switch things up and he will run in anything but I find he works the best in a certain few bits. As long as you have quiet hands, I don't focus much on severity one way or the other (within reason obviously). Sometimes horses like the support of a nose band and although they will run in a snaffle, they have more confidence with that nose pressure. Other horses, hate nosebands. It is a crapshoot.
If you go through the ropes of checking soundness, your riding, nutrition, teeth, etc... then I say try a few things out. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| The windstrol will make a difference if he was previously running on it and is now not. Also, honestly some horses just do not come back after having many years off. I had one that was 1d, turned out for 4-5 years and came back struggling to hit 3d, ran 4d at large shows. For the life of me she just didn't clock. Vetted and xrayed sound, just didn't have that 1d thing going on anymore. And to the bit changing- if it's not broke don't fix it aka don't change bits!! |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | I would get in contact with Brett or the person that rodeoed on him and see if there is anything that can help you. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| I agree, get in contact with someone that ran the horse when it did well and ask their opion or even see if you could get a private lesson and let them watch the horse work. 4 or 5 years off for a horse is a long time. I had a mare once that had 1 baby (off for a year) and it literally took 3 or 4 years to get her back where she was before she got bred. Sometimes it just takes time, and I think some horses just lose their fire when they dont do it for a long time. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | The Winstrol can make a huge difference.
That being said I agree with everyone else that a lot of horses just don't come back from injuries the same even though they've been cleared sound.
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | horsiace1025 - 2016-07-21 7:40 AM
I agree, get in contact with someone that ran the horse when it did well and ask their opion or even see if you could get a private lesson and let them watch the horse work. 4 or 5 years off for a horse is a long time. I had a mare once that had 1 baby (off for a year) and it literally took 3 or 4 years to get her back where she was before she got bred. Sometimes it just takes time, and I think some horses just lose their fire when they dont do it for a long time.
The lady I bought him from is the one the owned him since a was a 2yr old. She has been little to no help. All she can do is tell me to give him this or that.
I'm using her feed. I'm using her vet. I'm using her farrier. I'm literally doing everything she did except the windstrol.
Edited by TessBelle 2016-07-21 1:40 PM
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| TessBelle - 2016-07-21 1:37 PM
horsiace1025 - 2016-07-21 7:40 AM
I agree, get in contact with someone that ran the horse when it did well and ask their opion or even see if you could get a private lesson and let them watch the horse work. 4 or 5 years off for a horse is a long time. I had a mare once that had 1 baby (off for a year) and it literally took 3 or 4 years to get her back where she was before she got bred. Sometimes it just takes time, and I think some horses just lose their fire when they dont do it for a long time.
The lady I bought him from is the one the owned him since a was a 2yr old. She has been little to no help. All she can do is tell me to give him this or that.
I'm using her feed. I'm using her vet. I'm using her farrier. I'm literally doing everything she did except the windstrol.
So I bought this really nice mare one time. I made a few nice runs on her but then literally couldn't get her out of the 3D/4D. I talked to the previous owner, she was pretty sure I had wrecked her mare, and I was absolutely sure that I had too. I was beside myself.
I got rid of her. Literally loaded her on a trailer from a barrel race after another epic fail, still sweaty (okay, I did cool her out...a little), that delivered her to the consigner the next morning. Horse was so nice she moved in 3 weeks.
Girl gets on her, starts throwing down 1D/2D and winning rodeos within weeks.
That mare, she just wouldn't run for me. She loved giving me attention, was a pleasure to ride, nickered when she saw me, I packed my stepkid around on her double. But there was just something about me that turned her completely off.
The best thing I did for her, and me, was send her to the next rider.
Just a thought...
Edited by classicpotatochip 2016-07-21 9:25 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | classicpotatochip - 2016-07-21 9:22 PM
TessBelle - 2016-07-21 1:37 PM
horsiace1025 - 2016-07-21 7:40 AM
I agree, get in contact with someone that ran the horse when it did well and ask their opion or even see if you could get a private lesson and let them watch the horse work. 4 or 5 years off for a horse is a long time. I had a mare once that had 1 baby (off for a year) and it literally took 3 or 4 years to get her back where she was before she got bred. Sometimes it just takes time, and I think some horses just lose their fire when they dont do it for a long time.
The lady I bought him from is the one the owned him since a was a 2yr old. She has been little to no help. All she can do is tell me to give him this or that.
I'm using her feed. I'm using her vet. I'm using her farrier. I'm literally doing everything she did except the windstrol.
So I bought this really nice mare one time. I made a few nice runs on her but then literally couldn't get her out of the 3D/4D. I talked to the previous owner, she was pretty sure I had wrecked her mare, and I was absolutely sure that I had too. I was beside myself.
I got rid of her. Literally loaded her on a trailer from a barrel race after another epic fail, still sweaty (okay, I did cool her out...a little ), that delivered her to the consigner the next morning. Horse was so nice she moved in 3 weeks.
Girl gets on her, starts throwing down 1D/2D and winning rodeos within weeks.
That mare, she just wouldn't run for me. She loved giving me attention, was a pleasure to ride, nickered when she saw me, I packed my stepkid around on her double. But there was just something about me that turned her completely off.
The best thing I did for her, and me, was send her to the next rider.
Just a thought...
I've thought about this. I have a very good friend that could literally take a mule and make it into a 1D rodeo horse. She's even in the process of teaching a cow to run barrels just for the heck of it. I may let her try him and see if she can get anything out of him. Because of where I live I don't have the best access to the best trainers but I talked to several of the best we have and Lance Graves watched me ride him last fall and they've all said the same thing. That's it's just going to take time and that I need to get together with him. I agreed with that but I think it's been long enough and I think I'm pretty "together" with him. I gave all my horses a break durning the winter and focused on him until I was in a accident and couldn't ride and I learned a lot then. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Sounds like the horse responded to the windstrol, I'm glad you don't give it too. very hard on a horse, it makes it unfair to the rest of us who put the well being of our horse first. Check your shoeing etc keep looking for answers maybe check t3 t4 levels. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Could this horse be a bleeder? I bought one that had been drugged a lot, i detoxed the horse and used some herbs that were real popular i never see them anymore the lady selling them was very knowledgable, the horse also had allergys. We got the horse straightened up and it ran better without drugs!!! |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| There is a possibility that the horse was injured so badly that it just can't run any faster. Do you have any idea how the horse was rehabbed or was it just turned out? A lot of factors there that can cause problems. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | streakysox - 2016-07-22 7:47 PM
There is a possibility that the horse was injured so badly that it just can't run any faster. Do you have any idea how the horse was rehabbed or was it just turned out? A lot of factors there that can cause problems.
I don't know about that. I haven't thought about that. I know the woman that owned him has the money to do everything necessary and according to the vet she sometime does more than what's necessary so I just assumed he was taken care of properly. |
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