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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | Hi everyone, my 14 year old gelding has been lame for about 3 years and I cannot get him sound. I've tried just about everything. At first we thought it was his front feet, so we got injections. That did not help. We then put him on previcox which he was okay on for awhile but as soon as I started riding he got lame again. He went about a year after this with no riding and he stopped limping but you could still tell he was uncomfortable. Now we finally got a chiropractor out and they figured it was something in his back. The chiropractor is the most recommended in my area and I know she is good. She has come out 2 different occasions. The first time she couldn't believe how messed up his back was, and got everything back together. About 2 weeks after the first he went super lame on the front left foot. The second time only a couple things popped out and she fixed them once again but it didn't fix his lameness issues. She noticed the bars in his foot were growing funny and she told us to talk to our farrier (who is also very good.) He said it was just from the moisture and weird weather lately and pressure tested his foot to see if that was why he was lame, but it didn't seem sore. So now I have no idea what to do or what could be wrong with him! The chiropractor is coming back in a few weeks but I don't think its an adjustment issue that is making him lame. Does anyone have ANY ideas or suggestions?? I know he will never race again and maybe not even be ridden, but I just want him to be sound and comfortable. I have a BOT blanket but its so hot to put it on in the day or night right now. Could it maybe be his knees? I'm just at a loss here. Anything would be amazing.. Thank you. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
 
| Sometimes you get one issue solved and another shows up that previously was "hidden" by other lameness. You need a good lameness vet, you want to figure out why he is out in his back, is he off on the front because he is compensating for pain somewhere else, etc |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I second the lameness vet, be prepared to spend a small fortune, as it takes time, flexion tests, blocking, X-rays and ultrasound to identify the problem. Don't let the vet skip a step as this is may be the reason why it has been missed |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | I have already done the blocking (which didn't make him sounds) and x-rays in his front feet (which nothing showed up). My chiro said that there may be a large chance he will never be good again just because of how long his back had been messed up. She figures from a bad saddle fit. But he hasn't had a saddle on him for almost 3 years now and still no sign of improvement. He also has a bit of scoliosis in his back but nothing too crazy. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Have you looked into Lyme disease or EPM? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| How long ago did the vet look at him? It maybe time for a reevaluation or go somewhere they can do a more in depth examination. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| karkar482215 - 2016-07-23 6:08 PM
I have already done the blocking (which didn't make him sounds) and x-rays in his front feet (which nothing showed up). My chiro said that there may be a large chance he will never be good again just because of how long his back had been messed up. She figures from a bad saddle fit. But he hasn't had a saddle on him for almost 3 years now and still no sign of improvement. He also has a bit of scoliosis in his back but nothing too crazy.
If the blocking didn't make him sound, then the problem wasn't there, and the vet should have blocked higher up until the horse went sound.
The vet also needs to do one leg, then the next leg if he doesn't know where the problem is.
And if the X-rays were clean why didn't you ultrasound? Soft tissue doesn't necessarily show up on an xray |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Here is my first suggestion and is fairly cheap. Have your farrier put equipment under his shoes. May not work but worth a try. Darn autocorrect. Should be equi pack.
Edited by streakysox 2016-07-23 8:27 PM
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i second epm. dr. ellerson in florida. i went to my dog vet and got the blood test tubes and sent it to her. she sent me a treatment. horse did great low level disease. please read up on this
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i second epm. dr. ellerson in florida. i went to my dog vet and got the blood test tubes and sent it to her. she sent me a treatment. horse did great low level disease. please read up on this
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 Saint Stacey
| Here is my 2 cents, for what it's worth. Reading what has happened raises some questions and concerns.
1) You say you have a great farrier. Everyone says that. The truth is there are very few great farriers out there and having a horse just 1/8" off can pretty much cripple one. I speak from experience.
2) You say you have a great chiro that puts the back in. A horses spine is not designed like a humans. The SI can be out, the shoulders can be out, the neck can be out. But the back doesn't exactly go "out". If it did, every horse would need adjusting when a rider bounced around on them.
3) With the above in mind, I'm not discounting the back. But I would X-ray for kissing spine and arthritis before I let the chiro touch him again.
4)What type of lameness? When a horse is "navicular", they tend to walk on egg shells. A neuro horse will duck flop the front feet like they can't feel the ground. What kind on flexion tests were done front and back? Exactly what kind of "lame" is the horse?
5) Are you sure it's a back issue and not an SI issue?
6) Have you xrayed the neck?
I personally would start with X-rays of the neck, back and SI. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Make sure the feet are balanced. Lecel and at the same angle. I would do a hair analysis. I can give you the number of the person i use. This will give you something to work with. They will reccomend a program for your horse. Then you can make a decision on what you want to do. |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | I did an ultrasound as well on his fronts and again nothing showed, she blocked one foot and section at a time as well as flexion tests for the knees, hocks, and feet. No improvements. These tests were done about a year and a half ago-that is when he received cortisone shots after.
My farrier is the most recommended in our area, and yes, I believe he is better then most of the other farriers out here. Over the last 2 years I've switched farriers 4 times and I believe he has done the best work. The chiro also did more then his back, she adjusted the neck, ribs, pelvis, and looked at every other area. He is definitely a 'walking on eggshell' type of lame, so navicular. However, the vet basically already crossed that out. I will need to look into the X-rays for the neck and back and SI, it could be the SI now that I am researching it more. Also, I am from BC, Canada and going to the states for answers just isn't an option for me.
Thanks for all the responses and suggestions! |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | Also, have never thought about lyme disease, has anyone ever experienced a horse with lyme disease? |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | Lastly, I read up on EPM and the only symptom he had of that was stiffness. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you are from BC try Denton Moffit, if he is still practicing. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I did not read every reply.
Injections can only help if the right spot is injected. I had many issues with my mare and long story short a coffin joint injection seemed to help for a while but did not fix the issue. Blocking her feet help but she was still obviously sore. After MANY exams and tons of money the vet injected both navicular bursas and she has been fine ever since. She did have other things going on like kissing spine and other things that we found and treated in all that time.
Just because something was injected does and it didn't work, that doesn't necessarily mean that area isn't the issue. I now use a very good performance horse vet and will not go back to a regular vet except emergencies or small stuff like Coggins and shots if my main vet is too busy. |
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Saint Stacey
| I would start with neck and SI X-rays. Make sure to go to a vet that also has an ultrasound because you really need to do neck and SI injections via ultrasound. It costs more doing it thAt way but at least you KNOW the injection is going where it needs to.
Do a search by my name and threads I shared over the last two months to see what I've been dealing with on this issue. |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| I suggest bone scan. I have a horse who was "off" in the hind end. Showed lumbar pain every time we was ridden. Turned him out for a year and he was fine, brought him back and he was sound for the first few rides then lame again. Decided to suck it up and get the scan.
Lit up in front left and hind right. X-rays showed all clean joints but inflammation in tendons. At the end of the this expensive journey my boy was -4 in front and -2 in hind hooves. EVERYTHING I was dealing with was because of improper shoeing. He's been done twice by a vet recommended farrier and all back pain is gone.
So if you are able to get a bone scan I suggest it! If not, start at your foundation. X-ray all 4 feet. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | I have no answers but wanted to wish you and your boy well and hope you figure something out soon |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| daisycake123 - 2016-07-23 7:36 PM
i second epm. dr. ellerson in florida. i went to my dog vet and got the blood test tubes and sent it to her. she sent me a treatment. horse did great low level disease. please read up on this
I don't understand how the vet in Florida allowed you to do this. She only worked through my vet, he had to sign the forms and send the blood, then had to authorize the medication to be sent. Do you have details? |
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Regular
Posts: 85
| I'm not sure if this will help, but I have 3 different experiences that may shed some light.
1) I had a gelding that had definite bilateral degeneration in his navicular bones. We managed him the best we could and eventually turned him out. He best thing that worked for him was a bar shoe and some pain meds a few days before/after a run. We injected the bursas and such but they didn't help him for long
2) A few years later my main rodeo horse came up sore and it seemed to be the same "walking on egg shells" type sore. I had him x-rayed, ultra-sounded, injected, rested him, the list goes on. Eventually we had an MRI done and there weren't really any changes. Talk about FRUSTRATED!! He was completely sound everywhere else. I do have a great farrier, he does A LOT of corrective/rehab work and after a long talk with him and an OK from the vet, we put wedge shoes on him. He went back to being a 1D horse and even went the NHSRF in the goats (a girl bought him from me and used him for all around).
3) A barn I worked at had a very high priority brood mare and she horrible trouble with her front feet. I hauled her all over the state (Texas) to different specialists to try to figure out what made her sore. She didn't have degeneration, didn't have rotation, no soft tissue issues.....but her feet grew uneven, which put pressure on everything in the wrong way. We ended up putting her on a diet (she could look at grass and gain weight) called our super farrier and he was able to manage her. Eventually she was nerved so she could be totally comfortable but we still used the same farrier to keep her angles even.
These are all specific cases that had horses who presented the same but had completely different issues. I wanted to post to tell you that sometimes there isn't an exact injury or reason, but if you are using a good vet and farrier, you may be able to figure out a solution. Like with the 2nd case. We still don't know what the exact reason was that he got sore, but we found the solution. MRI's can be super expensive if you don't have insurance, but they do show things that x-rays and ultra sounds don't. With the 1st and 3rd case we decided we didn't need to go that far bc the horses' main careers were over at that point. There are a million tests you can do, you can always visit with your vet about options and experience he has had with said tests.
Good Luck with your boy!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | I would x ray the back for kissing spine. Its causes a lot of problems and has a lot of different symptoms. I speak from experience...lol |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | classicpotatochip - 2016-07-25 9:54 AM daisycake123 - 2016-07-23 7:36 PM i second epm. dr. ellerson in florida. i went to my dog vet and got the blood test tubes and sent it to her. she sent me a treatment. horse did great low level disease. please read up on this I don't understand how the vet in Florida allowed you to do this. She only worked through my vet, he had to sign the forms and send the blood, then had to authorize the medication to be sent. Do you have details?
your dog vet? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | Okay so you blocked the front feet but have you done a complete flexion test and lameness evaluation? If your horse is still lame and he's being blocked out then either they didn't inject correctly (possible but unlikely) or the issue is higher up such as a shoulder injury.
If your horse is "out" in every place possible then something is wrong and he should be coming up lame somewhere in a lameness evaluation. Time to get a good vet out and go over everything and find the source of your problem or at least eliminate what it's not.
I'd stop with the chiropractor until you know what is causing the problem and instead put that money towards getting a good overall lameness evaluation. The chiropractor could be either helping to mask the problem, or making it worse so get the vet first and them second.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 615
Location: Wyoming | I would try a good magnesium supplement. Mag deficiency can cause many major issues. I know that there was a post on here about it recently so you can probably do a search and find it |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | We did the flexion tests, blocking tests a year and a half ago and then did the cortisone shots about 6 months after to just give it a try and it did not work. We also always put our horses on magnesium during the winter.
We are going to do an X-ray on his spine and SI joint as well as maybe neck. I am also going to look up more on kissing spine. I am also going to put bar shoes with a wedge back on that we had on about 2 years ago which did help a bit if I wasn't riding him. If he is still sore after all of that and nothing shows on the X-rays I am going to go ahead and put him back on previcox as that did help him as well if I wasn't riding. I miss running him so much but that is seeming like another life now  I am also thinking maybe it is somewhere in his shoulder because the chiro did say he was awfully tight in the shoulder on the side he was lame in, which I forgot to mention. But again he could have been compensating for somewhere else. Wish horses could just talk sometimes haha.
Thanks again everyone. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | The golden standard for feet issues is an MRI, I suggest you take her to a University with a 3 tesla scanner. Then go from there with the findings build a plan of treatment or turnout or career change.
Let me warn you as I've been down this road in the past (I have the T-shirt!) you can spend thousands on awesome diagnostics and proceed with several avenues of treatment and come out the other end with a horse that's still not sound enough to ride. Sometimes, its just better to cut your loss and buy a new horse or pickup for transportation. |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | SO, I have an update and hopefully some people see this and have anymore suggestions or similar stories to help. Last week Digger became more lame and could barely walk. I took him to the vet and she did the blocking test, which he became almost sound! So she did some X-rays and everything looked very good. Now she thinks its a tendon inside the hoof wall that is bothering him. The only way to truly tell is through an MRI which is too pricey for me. So she suggested some medicine which will increase blood flow to that foot. He is now also back on bar shoes and hopefully next farrier appointment we will put wedges on as well. Has anyone else had a horse who suffered from the tendon under the hoof wall? If so what did you do to heal it? He has had 3 years off of NO riding, but has been running around in the pasture with other horses. I know many people suggest a year of stall rest, but that isn't an option for me. Anything is appreciated! Thanks. |
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Member
Posts: 24
Location: Canada | Also, do you think cold hosing could help? Even if the issue is under the hoof wall? |
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Haven't read all the replies but this article is great:
https://www.nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/378-why-is-my-horse-always-lame-solving-the-mystery |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i do work for my dog vet and she gave the tubes and i drew it and sent to her. my local vet autorizrd the rx. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Kissing spine? |
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Can't get my horse sound!!!!!